Latex Mattress

[phoenix]

Hi Golson22m,

I can see the “feel” that you are going for. It’s interesting that I also liked the feel of “hybrid” comfort layers (something over memory foam over latex). The thick wool and the polyfoam (what they call plant-based foam) would separate you from the memory foam and result in less heat on the memory foam and less sinking and less of a “quicksand” feeling in the memory foam. It would also make moving on the mattress less “restrictive”. At the same time it would allow for sinking in as the memory foam warmed up without being too mushy or too much “in” the mattress. The zoned latex under it would also help with this. The Natura uses higher quality materials and would have much better value than any of the iComforts IMO at the price you quoted. I’m not sure what size you are looking at but if the $2000 is for a Queen size Sensation then this would represent good value compared to what Natura normally sells for.

The Natura would also be better value than the Englander which has poly over less expensive (but still high quality) Dunlop latex over polyfoam. Wool is also more expensive than polyfoam in a quilting and also is more breathable.

The “down” side to the Natura is shared with other memory foam mattresses which is that over the course of the night you can sink more deeply into the memory foam although with the wool and polyfoam in it which separates your body heat from the memory foam … this would not happen as much. The other down side to memory foam is that it will tend to soften at first fairly quickly (over the first few weeks) and then more gradually. This will be offset to some degree with the compacting of the wool over time (although the wool in the Natura is thicker and quilted in a way that it is both “fluffier” and more “pre-compacted” in a sense).

So overall it looks like you are going for some firmness on top without a “mushy” or “trapped” feeling but with enough sinking in and cradling that you get pressure relief and with enough “energy absorption” that motion is isolated

It would also help if you let me know which of the iComfort models was your favorite and where it fit in the order of things (I’m assuming that you listed the mattresses in your last post in order of best to worst) and what you liked and didn’t like in the mattresses you listed. From there it would be easier to see the patterns in your “favorite” choices.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Thank you. The iComfort we liked was the Indigo Point which would actually be a little more than the Natura. In terms of comfort, the Natura, iComfort and Englander Daisy are very close. An obvious advantage of the Englander is that we could get a king for still less than the queens size Natura or iComfort. The Englander also has a better warranty and comfort return policy. However, overall we do like the feel of the Natura the best. Of course it is very hard to get a sense of the sinking in without spending a night on it. Vermont Bedrooms (the store with the Natura) charges $50 to get a 30 day comfort guarantee.

Thanks again!
Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glen,

The Indigo Point is actually a Simmons Comfort Pedic loft mattress rather than a Serta iComfort … however they certainly have some similarities. In particular, the Simmons is using 3.5 lb memory foam (low quality and subject to early breakdown) and also uses a very soft polyfoam support layer (24 ILD) which is much softer than a typical support layer which means that it may not do a great job keeping you in alignment. They do this because low-density memory foam allows you to feel the support layers underneath it much more easily and if they used a typical support layer firmness under this … the mattress may feel too firm. They do put a gel layer under the hips to help keep them up but this still wouldn’t make up for the deficiencies in the mattress IMO. I would probably buy a Costco mattress at half the price over this one.

That leaves you with the Natura and the Englander. Between the two of these … the Natura is IMO the better value only because the price you were quoted is lower than the norm.

The Natura has memory foam so you will sink “in” to the mattress more although this would be lessened by the layer of wool and polyfoam over the memory foam so it will feel firmer and the sinking in will take more time than if you were lying directly on the memory foam itself. The wool will also create a very breathable surface layer. The memory foam will soften over time though and you will sink more deeply into it when this happens as it is not as durable as latex. My biggest concern with this mattress would be alignment.

The Englander would have a firmer “on” the mattress feel as it has the quilted polyfoam (the quilting makes the polyfoam firmer) over the relatively softer (but firmer than memory foam) Dunlop latex over a firmer Dunlop core (which is all over a firmer polyfoam support base). This construction wouldn’t soften over time as much as the Natura but it also may not conform as well with your side sleeping positions because of the quilted polyfoam over the Dunlop latex in the comfort layer. My biggest concern with this mattress would be pressure relief.

If I was in your shoes … I would test each of these two mattresses specifically for pressure relief (with at least 10 minutes fully relaxed on your side on each mattress) and then make sure that your hips aren’t sinking in too far on either of them in any of your sleeping positions, especially on your stomach.

There are many of our members who make and ship mattresses anywhere across the country, many of which make latex or latex hybrid mattresses. All of them IMO offer better value than any of these (and offer the forum members here a minimum of 5% discount or a product bonus on their mattresses). All of the latex options could be made either softer than the Englander mattress (if you need it) or similar to it so your testing on these two can serve as a model for which layering would be best for you. They are …

https://www.mattresses.net/ Specializes in customizable 6" + 2" or 6" + 3" layering in either Talalay or Dunlop and side by side split construction is also available. Has a range of other options as well including organic Dunlop and a pocket coil/latex hybrid and can also do special orders of alternative layering on request. Has a zip cover so that the base layers can be exchanged if needed. Discount Code: MU5

http://www.baybed.com/ Specializes in a rather unique customized component mattress with latex layers of your choice over a high-quality pocket coil design for those who prefer a latex/innerspring hybrid. Has a zip cover so that layers and components can be exchanged after purchase.

www.mygreenmattress.com Specializes in 2 sided Talalay latex mattresses which are fully finished on both sides (no zip cover) as well as innerspring hybrids with natural fibers or latex. Can be chosen in soft medium or firm versions and has a 90-day comfort exchange if needed. The ability to flip a mattress will extend the life of even a latex mattress which is already longer lasting than other foams. (Note added later* This product was discontinued)Discount code: TMU125 or TMU15 for promotional sales

www.sleepez.com Specializes in component “choose your own layer” mattresses that offer either natural Dunlop or natural or blended Talalay latex with a wide range of layering options and thicknesses available. A 3" 5.5 lb Sensus memory foam layer can also be chosen instead of a 3" latex layer in mattresses with a 3" comfort layer. Side-by-side split is also available. They also offer several zip covers so layers can be exchanged.

https://www.cozypure.com/ Specialize in high-quality organic latex mattresses with a choice of layers and many custom choices including component latex mattresses. They also manufacture a wide range of organic accessories including toppers, mattress pads, and bedding at special discounts for those who have purchased a mattress. They are among the greenest and most eco-friendly manufacturers in all of North America and every product is as green, natural, or organic as it can be down to the last thread. They produce all their own power for their factory with wind, solar, and geothermal energy and would be of particular interest for those whose “value equation” includes buying from a natural, organic, and truly green manufacturer.

https://www.flobeds.com/ They are one of the original pioneer manufacturers of component latex mattresses where you can choose your own layers and have some unique designs. They use a 2" convoluted top layer in all of their latex mattresses and also offer a custom zoned vZone mattress where you can choose your own zones to customize support/alignment which is unique. They are very knowledgeable and take great care with their customers with their attention to detail and their customer service. They also make a line of latex/memory foam mattresses and some more premium mattresses that include some less commonly seen materials including coir and horsehair.

http://www.spindlemattress.com They make a component latex mattress that use continuous pour Dunlop latex from Mountaintop Foam using 100% natural Dunlop latex. Their mattresses are 3 layers of latex with a wool quilted zip cover and they also offer a comfort adjustment with a new layer for those who need it after purchase. Spindle itself is fairly new but the owner Neal is part of a mattress manufacturing family that has long-term and deep roots in the industry and is very knowledgeable about latex and mattresses in general. This is another great quality/value choice. Post #6 here and this thread have more comments and feedback about them. Discount code: phoenix

https://www.flexuscomfort.com/ Makes a range of good quality/value latex and innerspring mattresses including two-sided and latex hybrids and latex component “choose your own layer” mattresses that can be purchased locally or shipped across the country. They are knowledgeable and experienced and also offer layer exchanges for their component mattresses.

lumasleep.comMattresses. They sell 4 models – a 13" All-Latex Slumber mattress with a choice of comfort and two versions of latex/pocketed coil hybrid mattresses, each with a choice of comfort. Luma’s two-layer slumber system allows consumers to exchange the 3" Talalay comfort layer for free for up to one year after purchase. They are knowledgeable, experienced, and very transparent. One of the owners, former CEO Latex International (now Talalay Global) and several large US mattress manufacturing companies, has extensive experience in the US mattress industry. Discount code: TMU10

https://en.memoryfoamcomfort.ca/ Canadian online retailer that sells a range of high-quality memory foam and latex mattresses and hybrids that use good quality materials including 4 and 5 lb memory foam, Energia 3 lb HR polyfoam, and high quality/density base foam as well as several Nature’s Embrace latex mattresses made by Renelle and low-cost HD polyfoam mattresses as well. They are good quality and value, provide good guidance over the phone, and can ship across Canada.

https://sleepingorganic.com/ Charleston, SC. Factory direct manufacturer. Sells component latex mattresses where you can choose your own layers using either 100% natural Dunlop (organic is also an option) or Talalay in 3" layers with your choice of ILD in each layer and a cotton/wool quilted organic zip cover. Brandon the owner is knowledgeable and transparent and they have good quality and value.

https://www.foamsweetfoam.com/ Fullerton, CA. Factory direct manufacturer. They sell component latex mattresses that you can choose between organic certified Dunlop latex or 100% natural Talalay layers with either two, three, four, or five 3" layers in your choice of firmness with organic cotton and wool quilted zip cover. Scott is the owner here and I have known him for several years and he is also very knowledgeable and experienced. He makes good quality and value mattresses and is the only manufacturer I know that sells 15" component latex mattresses with 5 layers. He has been selling mattresses for over 30 years and online for over 9 years. They provide a 6% discount to the forum members here. Discount code: MU6

Nest Bedding Mountain View, San Francisco, Berkeley, Los Angeles, CA. Mattresses made and partially owned by Brooklyn Bedding. They are knowledgeable, experienced, and transparent and carry several mattresses that they sell locally and online including an organic latex mattress, a latex/polyfoam hybrid, memory foam mattresses, a two-sided dual firmness latex/pocket coil hybrid, and memory foam/pocket coil hybrids (including two-sided) that all use high-quality materials. Joe, the owner left a larger manufacturer that had a somewhat exaggerated focus on “green” mattresses to form his own company because he wanted to “do it right”. Please see their Nest Bedding details for discount codes for various mattress lines (they will also match any other larger discount).

https://latexmattressfactory.com/ They make a 7" 100% natural Dunlop latex mattress with an organic cotton cover quilted with natural wool that is available in a range of different firmness levels. They also sell individual Dunlop latex layers and a stretch knit cover for those who wish to build their own DIY latex mattress. They are also knowledgeable and experienced and carry good quality/value products.

Some other Non-member options are:

www.kissmattress.com This is a relaunch (2018) by SleepEZ and is also one of the “simplified choice mattresses”. They have 4" flippable comfort layer with two firmness choices that is a combination of 2" NR Talalay latex and 2" Active Flo Foam (one of the newer generation of “high performance” polyfoams that are more breathable, faster responding, and less temperature-sensitive) on top of a 6" 2 lb polyfoam base layer and is also a very high quality/value choice. New Kiss mattress configuration added Jan 2018
For a bit of mattress designs variation …Reverie (not a member of TMU) is a US manufacturer that makes a unique line of latex mattresses that use latex cylinders for support that have multiple firmness options and which can be arranged in different patterns to create a zoning system that can customize support/alignment for different body types and sleeping positions both before and after a purchase. They use comfort layers that are a combination of latex and high-quality 2.3 lb or higher polyfoam. They also provide blueprints that show a diagram of the most common and effective arrangements for the cylinders.

tmasc.ca is a smaller sleep shop with stores in Edmonton and Calgary, AB. which specialize in high-quality premium mattresses and some very high-quality bedding products. They carry SleepTek and Greensleep customizable latex mattresses and Berkeley Ergonomics customizable pocket coil/microcoil/latex mattresses that they sell locally or ship across Canada. I have known Daniel one of the owners there for several years and they are exceptionally knowledgeable and helpful and have great integrity.

NovovosBed (Not a member of TMU) They have now introduced their new “simplified choice” memory foam mattress in Jan 2016 which replaces their previous lineup. They use good quality/density materials and their mattress comes in your choice of three different firmness levels that each have different memory foam densities and firmness levels (two HD 4 and/or 5 lb memory foam layers and a 1.8 lb polyfoam base layer). They also have an optional “comfort +” attachment in different firmness levels as well which uses 2 lb polyfoam which is a high-quality material and is an additional zip attachment to the mattress for those that need to soften up or firm up their original choice after their purchase.

Rocky Mountains sell two latex mattresses, one with a trizoned 6" Dunlop latex core and one with an additional 2" of Talalay latex on top with different ILD’s available. Also a wide choice of memory foam mattresses including several (in the component beds section of the site) with layers that can be re-arranged to customize the mattress either before or after purchase. They also make custom layered and sized mattresses to your specs as well. Added Note: The ownership changed sometime last year and some of the options listed here might not be available.

selectfoam.com They used to be a member of this site but their membership has been terminated and they are included here as a reference only. See the warning posted in this topic.

Sedona Sleep (Arizona Premium Mattress.) This is also one of the new breed of “simplified choice mattresses” and is a two-piece component system that is somewhat unique because it includes a separate finished “base mattress” that is made from 7" of 1.9 lb polyfoam which can be used by itself as a low-cost medium-firm mattress. It can also be used underneath an existing topper if you already have a topper and the mattress underneath it has developed soft spots or is sagging and needs to be replaced. The complete two-piece system also includes a 3" blended Talalay latex topper in your choice of 4 different firmness levels on top of the base mattress and they also provide the option for a split firmness topper so each side of the complete system can have its own firmness level (in queen and king sizes).

Note added later ~ Sedona Sleep was discontinued but we leave the reference here for the record & as a reference for those who own the mattress

SleepOnLatex Online only. They manufacture two 100% natural Dunlop latex mattresses that are different thicknesses (7" and 9") and that each come in three different firmness options. Both have a wool quilted organic cotton cover. They also sell latex toppers and mattress cores as well. They are knowledgeable and experienced and offer good quality/value products.
Between these manufacturers, most mattresses can be “approximated” in terms of pressure relief and alignment and firmness level or almost any needs and preferences can be met with the quality and value that is typically much better than anything available to those who don’t have a factory direct manufacturer or a good quality/value retailer within reasonable driving distance. They are also very good at discussing your local mattress testing and “translating” it into recommendations or suggestions about which of their mattresses have the best chance of working well for you.

So unless the mattresses you are testing locally have a really compelling value or the value of buying locally makes it worth spending the extra money and/or using lower-quality materials or construction … I would certainly speak with these once you have spent a bit more time on the Natura and the Englander just to “make sure” about the pressure relief and alignment.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix: Thank you again! I am worried about “sinking” in the Natura. The last couple of mornings I have found myself on my stomach when I wokr. I worry about “hammocking” in the memory foam. I also worry about buying a matress on-line that we are not able to actually lay on first. We are currently visiting my parents on Cape Cod and will be traveling home tomorrow which takes us through the Boston area and Manchester and Concord, NH. Are there any places you would recommend in these areas to look?

Thank you, Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glenn,

There are a few places along the way but the best of them (to save you looking) would be …

Local factory direct manufacturer. I had a quick conversation with him and plan to talk with him further. Makes a range of latex including 2 sided and I could see even with a quick conversation that he was "mattress people. Has been making mattresses for a long time and seems to have very good value as well. Would be well worth a visit even if they are a little out of the way.

Local factory direct manufacturer. Makes a range of high quality latex mattresses including latex hybrids and has good customer feedback. Not the least expensive but high quality. Also well worth dropping in.

They are a bed and breakfast but carry Savvy Rest which are a “choose your own layer” latex mattress. I would certainly call first before going here as some outlets carry a wider range of options than others (normally carry Dunlop and Talalay in various firmness options). Great for testing latex layering and high quality but not the best value.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: worleybeds.com/default.asp| Archived Footprint 2: gardnermattress.com/| Archived Footprint 3:manta.com/c/mtd0snd/one-world-retreat

I would be “worrying” a bit about the alignment on the Natura as well … particularly with memory foam and stomach sleeping … not a great combination. An online purchase is not as difficult if you have tested mattresses and know the general layering you prefer and need as they are quite adept at working with their customers but I understand the hesitancy. With the two factory direct manufacturers on the list though … you have the best of both worlds … testing in person and good value.

These are the best I know of along the way. Have a good journey home

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix: Unfortunately, each of those were closed on Sunday. We did just go and try some additional Natura mattresses today. We went from one of these three to the other and just could not decide. All are now 20% off as they are eliminating Natura due to it often take up to 3 months to get an order from them. What are your thoughts on these three?

Harmony (2000 - 20%)

Quilt

Aloe Vera Ticking
2.3 lbs Pure NaturaWool
Natural Cotton Fire Barrier
1" Plant-based Quilt Foam

Topper
1" Convoluted Dunlop Latex - soft
2" Talalay Latex - soft
2" Talalay Katex - medium

Core
5" Plant-based foam

Solace Luxery (2699 - 20%)

Quilt

Cashmere Blend Ticking
4.2 lbs Pure NaturaWool
Natural Cotton Fire Barrier
1" Plant-based Quilt Foam

Topper
3-Zone, 2" Talalay Latex - soft
3-Zone, 2" Talalay Latex - medium

Core
4" All Natural Dunlop Latex
2" All Natural Coconut Coir

Solace Dual (1 side firm, 1 side plush) (2699 - 20%)

Quilt

Cashmere Blend Ticking
4.2 lbs Pure NaturaWool
Natural Cotton Fire Barrier
1" Plant-based Quilt Foam

Topper
3-Zone, 4" Talalay Latex - firm

Core
4" All Natural Dunlop Latex
2" All Natural Coconut Coir

I felt the best pressure relief on the Solace Luxery and Harmony, but felt like the best alignment may have been the firm of the Solace Dual. I liked the “feel” of either the Harmony or Luxery best, but realize that I need to be concerned about alignment as well. Any advice you could give on our dilemma is greatly appreciated! I don’t know how much more we could lay on these and have any better idea of which is best.

Thank you again! Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glenn,

That’s a shame that they were closed as both of them would have had great choices and good value (better than the Natura sale prices … (particularly Worley who makes a 2 sided all latex queen in roughly the same range as the Harmony on sale).

Did both of you get to test the Naturas?

Based on your comments …

The Harmony has about 3" of soft latex and an inch of quilting. It’s in the ball park but probably a little on the thick side for both of you. In your case because of your back and stomach sleeping … in your wife’s case because she probably won’t need something that thick on top.

The Luxury has a lot of wool on top which may compress over time (even though its tufted) and firm up your latex. It has 3" of soft foam on top (2" talalay and an inch of polyfoam) and because this seemed OK for pressure relief it would be better. Both the comfort layer and the middle layer are zoned which would help slightly with keeping the hips up and alignment. The Core is listed on the Natura site as being Talalay not Dunlop but either way it would be firmer and with the Coir under it would provide a firm lower layer. Overall I would vote for this one as the best model.

The Solace Dual would likely be too firm for side sleeping for most people on the firm side.

I think your experience is saying you are right in the range of “average” recommendations if you were to go the online route and the worst case is that in the unlikely event that it wasn’t quite right … a single layer exchange would be all that you would need. I’d be interested though how she also felt about the 3 choices and if her experience was similar to yours.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix: My wife preferred to Luxery, but was fine with either. It is interesting that you mentioned it possibly getting firmer over time as my fear was the opposite. I was afraid that if it felt kind of soft now, that I might “sink” over time when side sleeping.

Do you feel these prices are reasonable with the 20% off? Exchange is not an option as all sales are final on the Naturas.

Thank you, Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glenn,

While all foam including latex will soften over time … latex will soften considerably less than polyfoam or memory foam which is one of the reasons it is so durable. When there is a thick layer of wool or other natural fibers over the latex … it tends to compress over time which makes it firmer and reduces the ability of the latex underneath to take on your body shape and relieve pressure. While certain types of construction can reduce this (such as tufting), the tendency is still there. Many manufacturers are using thick circular knits without quilting over latex (especially softere latex) for this reason but without wool … other methods of fire retardency need to be included in the mattress (Natura uses wool in combination with Borax for fire retardancy).

There is more information about the effect of wool and quilting in post #87 here

In terms of the Natura’s value … it is good compared to normal Natura pricing but Natura pricing as a whole is quite high (although it is a quality mattress) and 20% off still doesn’t put it in the same value range as most independent manufacturers either local or online IMO.

Having said that … there is always something to be said for buying a mattress which you have tested for pressure relief and alignment even if the price is higher. “All sales are final” though means that there would be no chance to adjust your mattress if your longer term sleeping experience was different from your testing while with an online DIY purchase you retain the ability to make adjustments if necessary and the “value” in terms of materials and price would be significantly better.

As I mentioned in the post about quilting though … everything involves tradeoffs and the components that make up “value” are different for different people depending on what is most important for each person.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Phoenix: In post #21 you compare the Natura to the Englander that I listed in #18. Which of the two Englanders were you talking about? Are your thoughts any different between the two?

Thank you, Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glenn,

In post #18 you actually mentioned 3 Englander models.

Englander Liberty ($1400) Which has latex over a polyfoam base with polyfoam quilting. This is the one I was referring to in my “Englander” comments in post #21

Englander Memory Foam Village ($1000) Which has 3" of unknown memory foam over a polyfoam base. You would sink more “in” this mattress because of being directly on top of the memory foam with no foam or quilting between you and the memory foam to insulate your body heat. This would be similar to the Natura Sensation except by being directly on the memory foam it would “melt” more and you would be more in the mattress than the Natura (which insulates you from the memory foam with an inch of polyfoam and wool). Of course there are other differences between this and the Natura Sensation in terms of layering as well. The Natura has zoned latex (as a transition layer under the memory foam) and then a latex core which are higher quality materials and a more sophisticated construction than the Englander. The Englander is basically just memory foam over firmer poly so a much simpler construction and more “typical” memory foam construction than the Natura.

Englander Malibu Foam Boxtop ( $1200) Which is polyfoam over a pocket coil. I would certainly avoid this one because there is too much polyfoam in the upper layers and these are the types of mattress that tend to develop impressions and soft spots when the polyfoam breaks down.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix: After being woken a couple of times last night by my wife’s movements, I realized that I never mentioned one of our biggest needs in a mattress; something that has little. When we began this process we started out looking at memory foam for this reason. However, our concern about sleeping hot and sinking in sent us in the latex direction. What are your thoughts on this? Will the latex meet this need, at least as compared to our current innerspring matress?

Thank you, Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glenn,

Latex is very point elastic which means that one area can be compressed without affecting the surrounding areas. This is part of the reason why it relieves pressure so well but it also means that it is very good at isolating movement. This is the same reason why a pocket coil isolates movement better than other types of innerspring.

Overall … latex is better at isolating movement than an innerspring (including pocket coils) and similar to memory foam. Memory foam has a slight edge in this regard because in addition to taking on a body shape very well … it also absorbs energy (which is why it feels like sleeping in sand for some) while latex is more resilient and buoyant but they are very close.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix: I have checked out the sites you listed in post #21. The “Custom” one was way too much money (over $4500) for a king. Is there much difference in the others? Are their “sales” decent buys? What about a foundation? The ones that had them available seemed very high in price. How do we judge firmness? Is one company’s medium the same as anothers’? The most reasonable so far appears to be the one below from SleepEZ:

8" MATTRESS INCLUDES

Natural “Botanical” Pure Latex Mattress

FREE Nationwide Delivery! Seven to 10 days. Ships within 48 hours.

Cotton stretch removable zipper Cover

Two Layers of 3" 100% Natural Dunlop Latex

One Layer of 2" 100% Natural Talalay Latex

20 year warranty!

90 Day Comfort Guarantee-flat $95 Return fee

In re-reading previous posts I noted that you mentioned these manufacturers being much less expensive. I am finding them to be around the same (or more) as the Natura. Perhaps I am not comparing apples and apples???

After reading several posts about using the Enbassy as a “test” mattress, we just went and did just that. We did not like any of them! We noted that the absence of a comfort layer was a main reason for this. We really felt like we werer just laying on top of them and that they were not at all conforming to us. My concern is that I have now spoken with Mattress.net and SleepEZ (and left a message with "My Green Mattress) and my sense is they are all like the Embassys…no comfort layer. I also found that these two companies only had 10 years non-prorated and then 10 prorated (I recently read that with a pro-rated warranty the cost to repair or replace our mattress could be as high as what we initially paid within 3-5 years) whereas the Englander and Natura both have 20 years non-prorated. In your opinion, is this something we should be concerned about?

Sorry for all the additional questions!

Thank you, Glenn

Thank you again, Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glenn,

Custom sleep design is a “premium” custom built mattress which is built to exact specs for each individual person and uses a type of custom zoning which is very effective. It is more costly to build and the price reflects this. It also includes a foundation and protector and whatever other “perks” they include. The “value” in this mattress is in an exact layering and zoning pattern which is cut and built exactly to your weight, body shape, sleeping style, and preferences. It also is thicker than the norm (11" of latex) and uses a high quality ticking.

I should probably confirm the mattress size you are looking at and quoting prices for since this will also make a big difference in comparing mattresses. Whether the prices you are quoting also include a foundation is also important. I usually tend to quote prices on a mattress only as this is a more accurate way to compare them.

The Sleepez and other mattresses in the same overall budget range from some of the other online outlets on this site (that you are talking with) are all completely latex with various quilting/ticking options. In SleepEz’s case you have 6" of Dunlop latex with 2" of talalay over it for a total of 8".

The Natura Harmony is $2000 (less 20% or $1600) for 5" of latex with polyfoam both above and below this. It has a wool quilting which may be a plus or a minus depending on circumstances but wool does add to the cost. Overall this is not comparable to any of the all latex mattresses. I was assuming this was for a queen size and you also didn’t mention if the price includes a foundation?

The Natura Solace is $2699 (less 20% or $2160). This has the same amount of latex as the 8" all latex options. Again … the relative value of the Natura would depend on whether this is for a queen or king and whether it includes a foundation.

I’m not sure what mattress you mean when you are mentioning the Embassy or talking about using it as a test mattress? I can’t find any discussion of an Embassy in this thread or any of the others (I did a search and your post is the only place it was mentioned). If you mean the embody by sealy … I’m not surprised you didn’t like them as they use the lowest quality latex of all and it would be firmer than most other latex … especially talalay … but the reason why you didn’t like them is more important than the fact you did or didn’t.

The comfort layer of a mattress is the layer above the support core or in the case of a single slab of latex it would be the top few inches of the mattress. In a mattress which has several inches of latex above the support core … this is referred to as the comfort layer. All the mattresses you are looking at have this. The choice of material and how firm, soft, or thick your comfort layer needs to be is determined by your own personal statistics and sleeping style and preferences. Too firm or thin and it would not feel good or relieve pressure. Too thick or soft and it may lead to misalignment. Regardless though of whether it is an actual separate layer … the top few inches of a mattress is what relieves pressure (or doesn’t depending on the firmness and thickness and type of material).

Warranties are mostly about manufacturing defects which will show up very early in the life of your mattress. The materials in your mattress will determine how long it lasts … not the warranty. Softening of foam or body impressions less than the warranty exclusion are not covered. Your best protection is to know the quality and durability of the specific foam used in your mattress. Warranties are a marketing tool, not consumer protection or an indication of how long a mattress will last.

So once I can clarify the sizes you are quoting for and whether they are for a mattress only then it will be easier to make apple to apple comparisons. As a rule of thumb … its a good idea to quote for “mattress only” pricing for a specific size then add a separate amount for a foundation so both can be compared individually to other options.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix,

Sorry…I did mean the Embody…not sure where Embassy came from! The prices I was quoting are for queens and do include a foundation.

As to the Embody as a test mattress; our concern once we tried it was that the ones we were looking at online would also not have that comfort layer based on the specs we received. I am waiting to hear back from “My Green Mattress”. “Mattress.net” was suggesting a mattress with a 6" core and either 100% Talalay, 60-40 Talalay Blend or Dunlop. SleepEZ was sugesting the 10,000 Talalay…medium firm on one side and soft over med over firm on the other.

Thank you, Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Glenn,

While the Embody is not a great comparison to natural Dunlop or blended or natural Talalay … it can give an indication to the thickness and “feel” you may need or prefer along with other “pointers”. In general though I wouldn’t use it as a real comparison as it is not directly comparable to other forms of latex and Sealy keeps the specs they use close to the vest (including any inserts they use in their smart latex). What is certain however is that the value of the Embody is not great.

Based on your feedback … you are in a fairly “normal” range and this would mean that a “normal” recommendation with either a 2" or 3" construction would likely be close. I would tend to share your “stats” and the results of your testing with the manufacturers you are considering on a phone call and then trust their best judgement as they deal with these issues every day and will likely be close. With a 2" layer you may need a slightly softer ILD underneath to “help” with the pressure relief and with a 3" layer you may use a slightly firmer top 3" or middle layer to help with alignment. The quilting (or lack of it) will also make a difference.

If the prices include a foundation then there is no way to really compare apples to apples as the type of foundation that is included would make a difference and without separating out the mattress it couldn’t really be compared. Even with adding a foundation from each of the 3 sites you are talking to though, your final cost (including any shipping and even an exchange after the purchase if necessary) would be less than the Natura Solace (8" of latex plus polyfoam) sale price, and you would retain the ability to adjust them or exchange them to differing degrees.

Having said all that … if the fact that you have tested the Natura and it is a known quantity that you know works for you is more important to you than the higher price and lack of customization or after sale exchanges available from the online outlets, then there is nothing wrong with purchasing it either. I normally use a 20% guideline for a local purchase over an online purchase for comparable mattresses and while the Natura sale price is more than 20% more than a comparable 8" mattress … the difference is less when you compare it to some of the options that have features that the Natura doesn’t have (such as more latex, more ability to customize, two sided etc).

Each of the outlets you are talking to has specific advantages that may be important to someone and part of their “value” comparisons and all of them would represent better value and ability to customize than the sale price on the Natura Solace (which is the only comparable Natura).

In the end … all of these would represent far better choices than most people make and trying to overanalyze for the sake of the last few percentage points of “perfect” will often move you further away from your best choices. I would talk with the outlets that you are considering and then use your best judgement and instincts to make a choice without worrying about every fine detail which are almost impossible to predict without investing many many hours in testing a wide variety of mattresses and then analyzing every one of them to find out why they feel slightly different. Even then your sleeping experience in a few months may be different than when you are testing in “information overload” mode and trying to pay attention to every fine detail.

When I bought my mattress … I had to make final choices between many different competing options and the hardest part was letting go of analyzing all the fine details and trusting my “overall” instinct. In the end … any one of a dozen final choices would have been just fine and every one of them would have given me quality and value and a level of “perfection” that was well beyond what most people would ever purchase.

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix, re foundations…do you recommend replacing the existing foundation one when purchasing a new mattress? Ours’ is approximately 12 years old.

I have been speaking with a few more companies, but am a little concerned about the price difference. Not that I want to spend more, I am just a little nervous about why such a difference from one to the other. Here are my notes from the three:

$160 shipping…takes 4 wks
2" layer- latex
6" core/100% Talalay 1395/60-40 Talalay Blend 1195/Dunlop 1295… Queen pricing
Medium core for both
Does NOT include foundation

3 layers of talalay/double-sided …1799
About 10 days
75 to ship (includes foundation shipping if needed)
Swapping layers…would have to ship back as they are not in zipped covers as latex is easy to rip
Queen w/foundation 1949
King w/foundation 2799

Talalay…medium firm
Soft over med over firm
Queen – 60/40 @1750 / 100% @ 1995

Is there any reason to be concerned about the cheapest one? I am all for paying the cheapest price, as long as the quality is still good.

Thank you, Glenn

[phoenix]

Hi Golson,

If your foundation is a firm slatted foundation that is still flat and solid (not sagging) and has slats about 2" apart or less (not an innerspring) then it should be fine. Latex (or foam core) mattresses do better on a firm slatted foundation than on an innerspring.

In terms of the different prices … you are looking at three different mattresses and each have different features. Which of these features is important to each person is what determines the “best” value for each individual.

Having features like 3 layers which can be more customized is important for some. Having a mattress that is finished on both sides and which can let the quilting rest and compress more evenly (and extend the already long life of the foam) is important for some. Some people like all natural latex for its greater elasticity, feel, or just because its more natural, and some prefer the blend for its greater durability in the comfort layers. Some want wool in the quilting and some would prefer a ticking without wool or a stretchier fabric. All these different features and constructions lead to different prices. In the end … all of your choices and the value that is available from the better independent manufacturers in general … are some of the best mattress values anywhere in North America. The small differences in price are more about the features that are important to you than they are about “better” or “worse” value. There are many elements to putting a mattress together and getting it from there to your home and value IMO is always about getting the features and construction that you want and need not just the “price per inch” of latex excluding the rest of the mattress.

I would not hesitate to recommend and vouch for the quality of every member of this site. I know that they all use quality materials and go above and beyond in their service to their customers. Whichever includes the combination of features (including final price) that are the most important parts of value for you is the one I would go with

Phoenix

[golson22m]

Hi Phoenix: In going back and comparing the Natura specs I notice their mention of 3-zones. Is this something we should be looking for in your opinion? I am not clear from your post above if we would be losing something in quality/comfort by gong with a blend. While we were leaning toward 100% because we thought it was “better”, it almost seems the opposite based on your statements above.

Thanks again,
Glenn