I’ve been throught the various stages of the mattress search starting at the Department Stores and then finally reading your web and then going to more local manufacturer places. Much better feeling mattresses but I’m still not sure about material quality between some of the options. Denver Mattress has 3 that I’m looking at because they primarily have latex
cushioning.
One is a combination of Foam and coil starting with a Quilt layer of stretch knit ticking, 1.5" 1.8lb density convoluted foam, 1" Bioflex soy based foam and then a Rayon fire barrier. The Comfort layer is; 2" Talalay latex (? no ild indicated), 1.25" 1.8lb density convoluted foam, then a flex net insulator(?). The Support system are coils, 1080 individually wrapped foam encased coils of 16 guage tempered steel. My concerns with this are the many layers of HD foam and the small amount of latex.
The other 2 are all foam and layer as follows:
ASPEN: $1199
2" 24 ild Talalay latex
1" supersoft foam (no rating indicated)
4" 32 ild Talalay latex
4" 1.8lb high resilient foam (should this be rated HD?)
FR fiber wrap (should this be a stretch knit?)
Snowmass Plush: $1349
Quilt layer
Stretch Knit ticking
1’ 1.8lb High Density foam
Natural Rayon Fire barrier
Comfort Layer
2" 24ild Talalay latex
Support System
6" 32ild Talalay latex
2" 1.8lb High Resilient foam (again should this be named HD instead of HR?)
I am also looking into the Original Mattress Store near Cincinnati, a 1 1/2 hour drive from me (Louisville, Ky).
They have 9" and 12.5" latex mattresses that are 2 sided with 6 ’ core of Talatech Talalay latex(30-34ild, 3.9-4.2lb/ft) with a convoluted Talatech Talalay topper (17-21ild, 3.1-3.3lb, FR fiber, Quilted panel featuring a Premium damask fabric cover and heavy duty cloth handles for flipping. Pricing is $1299 for the 9" and $1699 for the 12.5"
These sound better but I won’t know until I try them out.
All prices include a box spring base which I need any way but with the foam only is their special box spring necessary?
ILD is a comfort spec (it indicates firmness/softness) and has nothing to do with quality. When you are testing mattresses … knowing the ILD is not necessary to determine quality because you can feel the pressure relief, alignment and support, and personal preferences, which are more accurate than using ILD specs. 1.8 lb polyfoam is a durable foam and while it isn’t the highest quality available … it is higher quality than most of the mainstream mattresses use and as long as the layers aren’t too thick it shouldn’t represent a major softening problem. The Talalay latex of course is a very high quality material.
The coils have a high coil count which makes up somewhat for the higher gauge (soft) but this too is more of a comfort issue although I would tend to prefer slightly lower gauge (firmer) coils. Overall … this is basically a latex/innerspring hybrid with some higher quality polyfoam in the mix. Given the $979 price (queen size mattress only) it appears to me to be good value but of course it would need to “fit” your needs and preferences and the specs don’t tell the whole story. The “weak link” of this mattress would be the 2.5" of polyfoam in the quilting but part of it is higher than normal density which would increase the durability compared to lower density polyfoam. It will still soften but to a lesser degree and I would take some slight softening into account. The other 1.25" of polyfoam is below the latex layer and would be more durable because it is deeper in the mattress under other layers. It’s probably also firmer which also would increase the durability.
The aspen and the Snowmass both only have an inch of polyfoam in the comfort layers (which is inside the guidelines that I normally consider appropriate for polyfoam in the quilting or comfort layers of a latex mattress) and the rest of the polyfoam is at the bottom of the mattress which would not be an issue or the “weak link”.
No the box spring isn’t necessary IMO but they tend to display and sell them as a set. I would test them on a firm platform as well (such as one of the adjustable beds they sell) as well as the box spring to see which base (active boxspring or firm non flexible foundation) you prefer and best meets your needs and preferences.
Thanks so much for the quick response. As mentioned before I’m also planning on going to a store in Florence, Kentucky
called the Original Mattress Store. They have a mattress with a 6" Talatech Talalay core (30-34ild, 3.9-4.2lb,ft) with a 1.5"
and then a .25" convoluted Talatech talalay layer top and bottom. These are stitched together and quilted into the cover then hot melt glued to the core. My questions are; 1. Are there any issues of glued layers versus non glued 2. why would they have a .25" layer on top of the 1.5" layer and cold that cause shifting problems 3. Would this all latex mattress be better than the latex and poly foam mattresses mentioned before from Denver Mattress company?
Also, for the core layer of a mattress is there any advantage of Dunlop versus Talalay? I have heard that Dunlop can have some inconsistency issues with density, whereas Talalay is even throughout and better with softer ild’s. Finally, blends of synthetic to natural, I have seen 20 to 80, 30 to 70 and 40 to 60 percent variations, is there any advantage of more of one to the other?
Did you have a chance to test some of the other latex options in the Louisville area I mentioned?
If you go to the Cincinnati area anyway … the better options that I’m aware of there are in post #212 here.
I have often included Original Mattress Factory in many lists around the forum because like Denver mattress they use good quality materials in their price ranges and have good value. The mattress you are looking at … Their Latex Supreme … is similar to what you described but it doesn’t have a .25" convoluted quilting layer but has a 1" polyfoam quilting layer. The convoluted talalay is the 1.5" layer. So the mattress has the 6" core you mentioned, 1.5" of convoluted talalay on each side, and then an inch of quilting polyfoam. This polyfoam is to add some surface softness to the mattress and to provide the backing and substance for the quilting. The .25 spec you mentioned is the density “tolerance” of the latex (meaning the actual density could be a little higher or lower than they list because density is never exact). ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: originalmattress.com/latex-foam/overview
As long as the glue is a non toxic latex based glue then no there is no issue. Of course gluing means that a layer can’t be changed but this is not an option they offer anyway. Glued layers will also tend to shift a little less and act a little firmer than unglued layers.
This is actually a 1" layer of quilting foam.
They are different but both are good value and only each person can decide what is better or worse for them because this depends entirely on which best meets their own individual needs (Pressure relief and Posture and alignment) and preferences (the many things that each person prefers in a mattress such as those listed in post #46 here).
My goal is always to help people get to a point of comparing “good to good” so that they can make all the final tradeoffs that are the most important to them. In your case you are at the place of comparing good and good (and there are also other “good” options in both Louisville and Cincinnati) and from that point on it’s about choosing what is “best for you” based on your own unique needs and preferences and your “value equation”.
Thanks again for the feedback, VERY helpful, although I didn’t see any references to places here in Louisville to check out,
although I have been to a few places including Bowles which make their own, but no all latex. I have however found a web site for Arizona Premium Mattress, www.mattress.net, and spoke to Ken. He indicated he was one of the first to be a member on your web site. They so far have the best quality/value I’ve found but no way to try them out. However they send the pieces separately, 2 6" core pieces (28, 33, or 36ild Talalay) and then a 2" Talalay 22ild topper. Bot are a 60 40 mix of natural to synthetic. You have the option of choosing the ild for either side of the core to suit preferences but the topper is only 22. When you receive the pieces you put them into the cover and zip it up. If you aren’t happy with the feel you can change out the core but have to pay shipping. Ken was very helpful and informative and I asked about the convoluted foam in the Mattress Outlet’s piece. He said they had tried that years ago but stopped because it broke down too easily. Do you know anything about that or is he just trying to sell me on his product?
Please do let me know of places to look here in Louisville, meanwhile I’ll be checking the links for Cincinnati. Again
many thanks.
The places I know that make or sell all latex mattresses in the Louisville list are Bandy Bedding, Weekend outlet, and Healthy back and of course some of the others make either mostly latex (like Denver nmattress) or latex hybrids.
Ken was one of the original members and I have had many lengthy conversations with him. When it comes to latex he is one of the most knowledgeable and open people I know and he is also very well informed about the industry. He will give you accurate information … even if it costs him a sale … which is one of the reasons (besides quality and value) that he was one of the first I invited to become a member. He also has some of the lowest prices for all latex mattresses available.
Convoluted latex (or any material) only has less material to support the same body weight so it can never be as durable as a full layer of the same density or ILD. While it does have certain performance properties and advantages which is why it’s used … it can reduce durability although this would be less of an issue with more durable materials such as latex. It’s also less expensive than a full layer (you can make two convoluted layers out of one full layer).
Thanks for the locations. I tried Bandy Bedding but they had no all latex mattresses. The Healthy Back carried Bliss (all latex) at one time but no longer. I did find that the Weekend Outlet had one (the 8" version which was too firm) and it was a hybrid. A good furniture store here named Burdorf’s had 3 Bliss versions, 8", 10" and 12" and they were very helpful. The 8" was still too firm (very hard), the 10" felt about the right firmness, and the 12" was very plush but almost too soft. The trouble was that the 10" seemed to have a bowing effect so that it felt as though I was leaning in towards the center slightly. It almost seemed as though there was a slight sagging effect as in a hammock which surprised me because I thought latex was supposed to compress similar to memory foam. My wife also noticed this on the side she was on (we also swapped sides). I’m not sure of the exact ild’s but I think there was a 6" latex core of 36ild and 2" of 15 and another 2" of 28 on top.
After trying these out we went back to try out the Denver Mattress options again and we really liked the Snowmass (1" HD 1.8lb followed by 2" 24ild Talalay then 6" of 32ild Talalay and 2" 1.8lb HR foam on the bottom). My only concern is that there were 1 or 2 reviews that I’ve read about the latex foam softening up after the first few months to the point of being uncomfortable. From what I’ve read about latex this shouldn’t happen but would like to get your input.
Also, based on the trials of the Bliss mattresses, I’m not so sure about trying to order the all latex from Arizona Premium mattress on line form Ken since if when I got it, it didn’t feel comfortable it would be difficult getting to the right mix of ild’s and could be costly with shipping.
I made some updates to the Louisville list because it’s changed a bit since I wrote it. Bandy Bedding as you mentioned only carries latex hybrids (I probably misunderstood him when I talked to them because I thought he mentioned he made an all latex mattress).
The Lexington Healthy Back is the only outlet in their entire chain that doesn’t carry the PLB mattresses. they are owned by Tempurpedic and only sell their mattresses.
One of the retailers that was listed is out of business.
I did talk with and add Burfords to the list though because as you mentioned they do carry a wider range of the PLB mattresses.
Latex and memory foam are very different materials and compress completely differently. The PLB mattresses use softer versions of latex in their top layers s it’s possible that you need a firmer version. Latex is very supportive but will feel completely different from memory foam and you will also align differently on it. If you have a top layer that is too thick and soft (with any material) then it’s usually a good idea to use a thinner or firmer comfort layer to keep you in better alignment.
The specs of the PLB (until just recently and they are still carrying the old versions) are in this thread so at least you have a reference point.
As you can see … the Snowmass uses a thinner and slightly firmer layer of firmer latex in the comfort layers than the PLB (and the 1" polyfoam layer is also firmer). All foam will soften both initially and over time (and the closer to the top they are the faster this will happen) but latex will soften much less initially and more slowly over time than any other foam.
I would talk with them and give them your feedback on your testing and see what they say. In their “standard” version they use a 2" comfort layer that is similar to the Denver Mattress (2" of 22 ILD vs 2" of 24 ILD) and then a wool quilting which would firm it up a little bit more. They can change the ILD of the support core to adjust the feel and support of the mattress (and this is the layer that would normally be exchanged so it’s a little more costly with shipping than just a thinner comfort layer). Talking with them will give you a much better sense of your own comfort and confidence level with an online purchase vs a local purchase.
Thanks for the feedback on the Louisville list too. At least it’s a little more up to date now
Hi Phoenix, really glad I found your web site… My wife and I are moving and
we spent last weekend buying furniture and looking for a “good” mattress.
After lying on too many, we decided on an Icomfort, until I came across your web site.
Now I am in search of a latex bed. I have found a Pure Latex Bliss ultra plush with the following specs.
This ultra-plush 12-inch thick all latex mattress provides the ultimate in luxury. Above the 1 inch stabilization layer lies 11 inches of 100% all natural latex foam rubber. The support layer in this mattress is a 6-inch Soft Talalay Latex core. On top of this lies one of their largest cushioning layers with 5 inches of Super Soft Talalay Latex. This mattress is made to provide the softest feel possible with the superior support of latex.
I am 6ft and 175 lbs. My wife is 5’-4", 145lbs. We are both side sleepers. They have this mattress on close out for $1495.00 at an outlet warehouse. Is this a good mattress for us and is that a good price?
As a consumer who has been doing a lot of searching and research I would say first off, that is a terrific deal price wise.
Make sure that the trial period and warranty aren’t compromised by the close out aspect. I tried this mattress and thought it was very comfortable but just a bit soft to my liking and the price was over $1,000 more than yours.
You can also check out the other options outlined in my correspondence attached to this link. Good luck, and let us know how it goes. I plan on sending an update on the Denver Mattress I’m planning on getting.
I’ll echo bobfrog12’s comments. It is a great price but PLB also controls the prices that are charged (or at least advertised) by its retailers and I doubt that they are a licensed dealer which means that it’s probably a return, comfort exchange, or a floor model. In this case … the original warranty would not be valid. ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: latexbliss.com/Documents/latexbliss_warranty.pdf
While it would still be a high quality mattress that used high quality materials … only you can decide if it’s “worth it” to buy a mattress that has a “history” and whether you trust the “story” that is attached to it.
As far as it’s suitability for your body type, sleeping positions, and preferences … personal testing with the guidance of a salesperson with the knowledge and experience to give you good and accurate advice and who puts your needs above their commission, profit, or desire to sell a mattress is the most accurate way to know. As bobfrog12 also mentioned … the PLB Beautiful (you can see the more detailed specs here) uses very soft talalay in the upper layers and would tend to be most suitable for lighter people who were primarily side sleepers but this is a general guideline only and everyone can be different. If you have both “accurately” tested the mattress for pressure relief (and this is unlikely to be an issue with this mattress) and spinal alignment in all your sleeping positions (testing the mattress while completely relaxed for at least 15 minutes) and any other preferences that are important to you (overall feel etc) then this would tell you more about its suitability than any “theory at a distance”.
Just a final reply on the mattress that I finally got. I went with the Denver Mattress Company’s “Snowmass” mattress, not because I spent a lot of time skiing there when in college, but because my wife and I spent quite a bit of time going to many stores, trying out various mattresses, and I did a lot of investigative homework, to the point that most sales clerks were asking me for information. This web site was a big help. Anyway, I couldn’t be happier with the mattress. We just got it a week ago and there is one big problem, I don’t want to get out of bed in the morning! I retired 3 months ago and I haven’t gotten up before 9:30 for a week, it just feels so good. The mostly latex foam mattress is just right, not too firm and not too soft. It supports you wonderfully although it does seem just a tiny bit warmer sleeping than my old mattress, but that one was rather old and had little padding to speak of. Anyway it is so slight a difference it’s hardly noticeable. I just hope that it maintains the same amount of support for a long time, which it should, being latex foam. If there are any future changes though I will be sure to post them here. Thanks again for all your help.
With all the research you’ve done … if you ever get tired of retirement you may have opened the door to doing some part time mattress consulting for the local salespeople
Hello,
Just joined after weeks of visiting = never joined a forum before but need this resource so much had to join.
Am looking for latex mattress for my daughter who is in med school so every minute of sleep is precious. She has chronic problems with allergies and has always had a swayback (lordosis?) as well as poor circulation in her feet (always cold). She has no time to look for a mattress; currently sleeps on a loaner = old, hard, with dips. While visiting, I tried to find a source of natural latex bedding but nothing of any quality in her area. On line I discovered this web site and found that you really couldn’t suggest much in the area = zip code 70119. So have been looking at online suppliers. Have read and reread about Ultimate Dreams but worry about synthetics. The Natural with the wool and 100% Dunlop comfort layer sounds possible but it still has the 1.5" poly-foam. It states the wool is the fire retardant so wondered: what is the fire retardant in the Plush and Eurotop? Still trying to avoid as much chemical load as possible. The major question is would she do better with an all natural product or is the practically priced Ultimate Dreams ok? I realise I don’t know if all the natural green hype is just wishful thinking, the hope that if one gets closer to natural that one will be healthier. She has no time for this search but knows it will obsess me until the resolution; then she will sleep and I’ll find another problem.
Thank you sooo much for all the time, effort and energy you put into this website, I have been recommending it to everybody I know who mentions sleep problems - even without joining.
First, thanks so much for all the excellent information! Your website has helped me tremendously from going out of my mind (last time I bought a mattress 11/12 yrs ago it was an awful experience peppered with pushy sales people and vague information that made it difficult for me to compare mattresses). I’ve read a bunch of stuff online (mostly from this forum) and think I’ve decided on a mid-priced Latex Mattress.
Background for my question: I’m a 5’ 5", 170lb women who is a side sleeper and suffers from chronic pain due to a back injury to C5 and herniated discs at C7 & C8. On top of that I spend A LOT of time in bed from a sleep disorder that can see me spend on average 10-15 hrs in bed (yeah I know YIKES). I’m moving from Dallas to NYC and have no bed in the new apt in NYC so I need one asap. Also I like a bed more on the softer side but I will do what is best for my back. My budget is Under $1700. Ideally I’d like it under $1500. Queen sized as well.
So you see a mattress is a super important purchase for me. Having said that I can’t really look for mattresses in a “local” store til I get there. I was hoping you could tell me if the mattresses I listed below are on the right track for what I might need. If they are not, can you help me narrow down what I should concentrate on looking for.
From reading info here in the forums I was thinking about something like these (Prices are all Queen & include Box Spring):
Latex mattress from dixiefoam.com - 6" thick tri-zoned (medium at head & foot, firm in the midsec) latex foam rubber mattress is outstanding for pressure relief $1335 (inc BS)
NaturaLatex Tranquil from NaturaWorld.com 1" Plant-based foam 2" Talalay latex (blended) 5" Plant-based foam $1399 (inc BS) [url=http://www.naturaworld.com/mattress-tranquil]http://www.naturaworld.com/mattress-tranquil[/url]
Latex Supreme from Original Mattress Factory $1699 (inc BS)
Thanx for all the great info. My wife and I are tring to find a
New mattress with the adjustable base. We r going to buy a
split king for us and a queen for our son. We were close to
getting the icomfort for our son, he loves the way it feels and
We had desired on a tempurpedic. After read your mattress forum and
Looking we r not sure which bed to buy. We in Midland/Odessa
Of west Texas. We have a Denver Mattress and if we buy from
Them I think I would get the aspen for my wife,the snowmass for
Me and the aspen for our son. My wife is 130lb, I’m 250, & our son
Is around 70lbs, he is 11. Any thoughts and advice would be great.
Thank you in advance for your help.
I think that Denver mattress is likely to be among if not the best value in your area and if you have tested these so you know they are suitable for your needs and preferences … they certainly have good value.
You’ve probably seen this but post #2 here has some of the better options in the Midland/Odessa TX area (and I made a few calls and updated it today in case you want to include some other possibilities in your research).
Sorry for the delay in this reply. I see I missed a couple of posts in this thread when I only replied to the last one
Unfortunately there aren’t any factory direct manufacturers right in New Orleans and the closest ones are in Lafayette and Baton Rouge (see post #10 here). There are some “better” possibilities in New Orleans however including some which carry latex and they are in post #4 here.
I don’t think that allergies would present an issue with either latex or polyfoam for most people … although some people with MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) may do better to avoid polyfoam or at least let it air out for months before using it. In most cases though … polyfoam is so common all around us (furniture, car seats and almost everywhere else) that it would be unlikely that someone who was very sensitive to this wouldn’t know about it already. The polyfoam that is poured in North America is usually CertiPur certified for offgassing and would be “safe” for most people. Most latex including blended and natural Talalay are also Oeko-Tex certified which is an even higher level of certification for offgassing and harmful substances.
I believe they use an inherent rayon type fiber (a cellulosic fiber impregnated with silica) which is also very safe IMO. I’m not certain of this though so to make sure it would be a good idea to call them. There is more about various fire retardant methods at the bottom of this article. The Chicago Tribune published a very informative article on fire retardant chemicals recently which is very interesting reading.
For most people … synthetic foams if they are well made without the most harmful chemicals are generally fine in terms of safety but of course each person may have different sensitivities or different ideas of what they consider safe so each of us needs to answer “how safe is safe” on an individual basis … and hopefully with enough facts to make an informed decision. Some people for example would only consider a mattress that used natural latex, natural fibers, innersprings, or other natural or organic materials because they believe that for them any level of potential harm or synthetic substances are too much and they are willing to pay for a much larger safety margin (or in some cases just more natural or organic materials on principle alone) than others would consider necessary.
[quote]
I realise I don’t know if all the natural green hype is just wishful thinking, the hope that if one gets closer to natural that one will be healthier. She has no time for this search but knows it will obsess me until the resolution; then she will sleep and I’ll find another problem.
[/quote]’
There certainly is a lot of “greenwashing” in the industry and a lot of misinformation as well. For example most of the claims about the “plant based” or “soy based” polyfoams are greatly exaggerated when all they have done is replace a small portion (usually under 20%) of one of the two main petrochemical ingredients used to make polyfoam (the polyol portion) with a plant based substitute which has been chemically altered beyond recognition anyway. This means all of the other ingredients (the isocyanates) and 80% of the polyols are still petrochemical based and yet many people are calling this 'natural" foam.
Thanks for the kind words
And just in case you haven’t seen this … the list of members of this site who specialize in working with customers online or “on the phone” are in post #21 here.
