Loom and Leaf vs. other brands

Hi Nene1957,

That’s a lot of questions that may be more complex than you realize for a single post and any one of them could probably take a book to answer so I’ll try and untangle them as much as possible :).

First of all (and to make sure that some of your basic assumptions are accurate) … I’m assuming that you’ve read the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps most importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

While I can’t speak to how any mattress will “feel” for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances … outside of PPP the most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability and assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the guidelines here … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses (see this article) are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.

I would keep in mind that pocket coils are “good” at motion transfer so they may be worth considering. There is more about the different types of innersprings in this article. Your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) or your own personal experience will be the best way to assess whether any mattress is “motion isolating enough” for you.

Latex and memory foam are also completely different materials that feel and respond very differently from each other and there are many people that prefer one and don’t like the other one at all. There is more about how latex compares to memory foam in very general terms in post #2 here but the most reliable way to know which type of material or mattresses you tend to prefer would be based on your own local testing or personal experience.

There is certainly no such thing as a “perfect bed” in general terms … there is only a mattress that is “perfect” for a specific person and the same mattress may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on.

I would be curious about the make and model of your mattress and the materials and components inside it since there are many so called “all latex” mattresses that are sold in the industry that don’t only contain latex and that could also include lower quality materials or weak links in their design. The law tag on your mattress will tell you whether there are any other materials besides latex in your mattress. While it’s certainly possible that your mattress contains layers or components that are defective … latex in general is the most durable of all the foam materials and is much less likely to develop soft spots (virtual impressions) or sagging (visible impressions) than other types of foam. It would also be well worth checking your support system under the mattress since this can also be a common cause for sagging in a mattress (you can check this by putting the mattress on the floor for a few nights).

Latex in general is also the most breathable and “temperature neutral” of all the different types of foam materials but as you mentioned the firmness of a mattress and how much you sink into it can also affect sleeping temperature as well. While it’s not always possible to to track down temperature regulation issues for any particular person on a specific mattress because there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the “oven to iceberg” range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with … there is more about tracking down a potential cause or causes for temperature regulation issues (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

I would also keep in mind that there are no “standard” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness (and “feel”) compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness as well and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

The warranty of a mattress has very little to do with the useful life of a mattress or how long it may be before you need to replace it and it certainly isn’t an indicator of performance. Warranties only cover defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or rapid in the case of lower quality materials) loss of comfort and support that is the main reason people will need to replace their mattress. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here.

There is more information about what I call “simplified choice mattresses” that are sold online in general in post #1 here and there are some comments about Loom & Leaf and many of the other simplified choice mattresses in post #2 here in the same topic. Forum searches on Loom Leaf (You can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about it as well.

For the majority of people … with careful testing (using the guidelines in the tutorial) their choice will generally be “close enough” that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper (if their mattress is too firm) or a layer exchange (see post #4 here and post #10 here).

While most of the online simplified choice mattresses have a great trial period so you can test them in your bedroom instead of a showroom with little risk outside of the time you spend trying it (or returning/donating it if it doesn’t work out as well as you hoped) … this will only tell you whether a mattress is “good enough” in terms of PPP and not specifically how it compares to other mattresses that you could have purchased that may have been even better or that you may have preferred. When you test mattresses at a local store you can test many different mattresses in a shorter period of time and there may be more than one that would make a suitable choice but your testing can give you a good idea of which of them you would prefer and would likely to be the “best choice”. You would need to purchase quite a number of online mattresses (and then return the ones you didn’t like as much as your “final choice”) if you wanted to find out which of them was the “best choice” relative to the other options that are available to you.

While there is no way to quantify how long any mattress will last for a specific person or predict exactly when you will decide to replace it because it is no longer suitable or comfortable for you (because this is the only real measure of durability or the useful life of a mattress that really matters) because there are too many unknowns and variables involved that are unique to each person … if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn’t close to the edge of being too soft when it is new (see post #2 here) and you can find out the specifics of the materials and components inside it (see this article) and confirm that they meet the minimum quality/durability specs that are suggested in the guidelines here then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with higher quality and more durable materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam (in the comfort layers especially) it would likely be in the higher end of the range or even longer and the chances that you would have additional “bonus time” would be higher as well…

In other words … in terms of durability a mattress is only as good as the quality and durability of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label and knowing the specifics of the materials and components in a mattress is the most reliable way to assess the durability of any mattress compared to others you may be considering.

While other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … other people’s experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) are only one person’s experience on a particular mattress and aren’t relevant to anyone else and aren’t a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress and in many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because any mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on … regardless of the type of materials in the mattress or the cost of the mattress (see post #13 here).

The first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or if you can’t test a mattress in person then your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one but every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” and mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don’t normally try to “match” another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer.

Unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is designed to “match” or “approximate” another one in terms of firmness or “feel” (or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the “averages” of a larger group of people) then the only reliable way to know if a mattress will “feel” similar to you would be based on your own personal testing or your actual sleeping experience.

While your own careful testing or personal experience is the most reliable way to know whether a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort and PPP … when you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

The tutorial includes a link to some of the better online memory foam options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) and many of them make mattresses that are designed to approximate some of the Tempurpedic mattresses as well so you can use your local testing on different Tempurpedic mattresses as a guideline for a similar online choice.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d also be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area as well.

Phoenix