Mattress comfort layers - latex

[Q8canuck]

Hello Phoenix,
I’ve been reading lots of material on your site (including tutorial) in an effort to understand more about latex mattresses and how to make an informed decision. We made a less than satisfactory decision with our last mattress and are determined to get it right this time, so are spending a lot more time on research and homework!
A post that caught my attention was about the customizable split king Presto mattress whose layers can be rearranged to suit each person’s comfort. This makes sense to me if it’s really as easy and practical as they say to rearrange the layers. However, all layers are made of organic Dunlop latex and I’d like to know how this construction would compare to the same in 100% Talalay, or a Talalay blend combination. What I’ve read on the site is that Dunlop has a firmer feel and a less consistent manufactured composition.
What is your opinion on a 100% Dunlop mattress compared to Talalay?
Are there other companies who make a similar customizable style in either Dunlop or Talalay?

• I’m also curious about the pros and cons of Talalay blends that contain 30% natural latex and balance is synthetic.
  I live in Canada in an area where the opportunities to visit retailers and test various latex mattresses is very limited without travelling to major centres, so most of my research is being done online. Your site and forum information is extremely helpful in making the right decision. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and valued opinions.

[phoenix]

Hi Q8canuck.

Thank you for your kind words and appreciation of our site. You are certainly making good use of it and have learned a great deal in the process and while I am sorry to hear about your past “less than satisfactory” mattress decision, I am glad that you are “determined to get it right this time”.

A post that caught my attention was about the customizable split king Presto mattress whose layers can be rearranged to suit each person’s comfort. This makes sense to me if it’s really as easy and practical as they say to rearrange the layers.

You are correct that a configurable system is “easy and practical” and offers the user the flexibility to customize the feel of a mattress not only immediately after the purchase, but also in the future, without having to replace the entire mattress. There are versions of customizable systems that use all latex, latex with polyfoam cores, memory foam with polyfoam or innerspring cores, and even versions using only polyfoam. As you discovered this can be especially useful when ordering something online, as it gives the consumer a bit of a “safety net” to be able to replace/rearrange layers if their selection doesn’t feel as they had hoped after ordering. MFC’s Presto is a 10" all natural organic mattress, that has a top- brass zipper cover that will allow you to open and rearrange the 4 latex layers inside for each side in the split king to match each partner comfort needs.

However, all layers are made of organic Dunlop latex and I’d like to know how this construction would compare to the same in 100% Talalay, or a Talalay blend combination. What I’ve read on the site is that Dunlop has a firmer feel and a less consistent manufactured composition.

Your understanding is correct that Dunlop and Talalay of the same thickness and ILD won’t feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). You can see a comparison between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here . It is also true that Dunlop is less consistent in its cell structure (has a wider variety of cell size, shape, and structure) which along with its particle dispersion is what accounts for its greater compression modulus. It also uses more latex in the foam (a higher ratio of rubber to air) and is denser. Dunlop has a different “feel” and performance than Talalay and is less lively or springy but ultimately your own experience is really the only way to know which one you prefer with any certainty. Some people would notice more of a difference than others but generally you will “feel” more of the upper layers than the deeper layers … at least when you first lie on a mattress. This is why I recommend that

What is your opinion on a 100% Dunlop mattress compared to Talalay?

Talalay and Dunlop have often been compared to angel food cake vs pound cake. Talalay has a more consistent and even and stronger cell structure because even though there is less latex overall … the cell walls or “struts” are thicker and more consistent. There is a little more about the differences in “feel” between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 linked above.

Are there other companies who make a similar customizable style in either Dunlop or Talalay?

These component systems are/have been quite popular for many years, and a quick glance at the members of the site will show that many of them offer such component style systems, as well as other mattress companies who are not site members here. Depending on the manufacturer/retailer these systems can be offered in Talalay or Dunlop only or a combination of both. As you already discovered we have a few Canadian Trusted members who offer All latex high quality great value component style systems

You already are aware and engaged in a conversation with one of our Canadian Experts The Mattress & Sleep Company who is closer to your location and who have all latex Talalay mattress options that you can try.
Memory Foam Comfort that you mentioned with their Presto customizable organic (Dunlop) mattresses another of our Expert Members of the site .
Dormio Organic Beds yet another one of our Expert manufacturers of the site have also a wide range of customizable “head to toe” latex mattresses and ship nationwide.
I’d suggest that you call

- I’m also curious about the pros and cons of Talalay blends that contain 30% natural latex and balance is synthetic.

Synthetic Latex - Styrene-Butadiene rubber (SBR) Latex that is a man-made molecular equivalent of natural rubber Latex (developed during WWII when natural rubber Latex became scarce). Blended Latex is a proprietary blend of natural and synthetic Latex (e.g. 30/70). Latex is blended to optimize the desired attributes of Latex foam rubber for its given manufacturing process and end product. It is less expensive than natural rubber and it is more consistent and durable. There is more about 100% natural and blended Talalay in post #2 here . It is also more difficult to work with to make a consistent firmness so the natural Talalay can be made softer than most Dunlop (except continuous pour Dunlop) but not as soft as blended Talalay. The two different versions of Talalay are very similar in feel and are lighter and more “lively” than Dunlop.

My best suggestion at this point is to determine if you like the feel of Dunlop or of Talalay by visiting one of the stores TAMASC mentioned and to place a few calls along the way or engage some of tour experts on the forum as they would be the best to answer many of the questions that you may have as they are much more familiar with their own mattress designs and materials than anyone else and they can use the information you provide about you and your partner’s body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your in-home or local testing to make suggestions based on the “averages” of other customers that may be similar to you. Of course, I’d keep an eye on the options you have available and your ability to exchange layers or the mattress itself or use the other forms of fine-tuning the mattress after your purchase or the return policy may also be an important part of your personal value equation or to offset the risk that can go with any online purchase.

Based on the thought you are putting into this and the care you are taking with all the research you are doing I think you will certainly end up choosing between some great options.

Phoenix

[Q8canuck]

Thank you for your helpful comments…more information to digest and still more homework to be done!

[phoenix]

Hi Q8canuck

You are welcome! … glad to be of help.

One step at a time is the most effective way to find “the perfect mattress” for you and has by far the highest chance of success … and of course, for any other questions you may have along the way I or any of the Expert members of the site will stand by to help.

Phoenix

[zzipp]

I am in the market for a natural latex mattress. Because of price points, I am considering a hybrid of L&P inner springs plus latex comfort layer. I keep hearing a lot about the Avocado mattress, but wonder if other companies that partner w TMU make something similar at a comparable price. Any thoughts? I would also be interested in your experience w this type of hybrid vs 100% latex.

[phoenix]

Hi zzipp,

Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

I keep hearing a lot about the Avocado mattress, but wonder if other companies that partner w TMU make something similar at a comparable price

AG mattress has been discussed on TMU in this thread here or this topic here, just make sure to read through the later posts as their specs have changed. Some of our trusted members that carry latex hybrid and ship nationally. (There may be shipping costs associated with purchasing innerspring mattresses)

Arizona Premium Mattress
Christeli
Flexus Comfort ships from CA
Magic Sleeper
Luma Sleep
My Green Mattress
Mattress To Go carries better quality value national brands.
Nest Bedding national
Quality Sleep Shop
Texas Mattress Makers ships from TX
Urban Natural
Bedmasters ships from FL
Beloit ships from IL

I’d keep in mind that in general there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to make specific mattress recommendations for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I would also be interested in your experience w this type of hybrid vs 100% latex.

Both innerspring and a firmer latex core can be used as a support layer and each has very “different” characteristics but the most important differences are the ones you can feel and that you personally prefer. Both can be softer or firmer depending design so a pocket coil could be firmer than a latex core or the other way around they could be zoned or not all depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing. There is more about this in post #10 here and more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 here and more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here or post #29 here There are too many differences between them that it is really hard to answer these types of “apples to oranges” questions in any meaningful way other than through general comparisons that may not represent the differences between two specific mattresses.

While it’s not possible to make specific suggestions because of all the many variables involved that are unique to each person and your own experience is the only way to know for certain whether any mattress/topper combination will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP, Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing an online mattress where you can’t test it in person … a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to exchange or return and any costs involved just in case your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

I don’t know howm much you’ve read since you found us but I’d make sure to start with the tutorial post here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones where you aren’t able to find out the quality of the materials inside it.

Phoenix

[Q8canuck]

Hello Phoenix,
Since my last post we’ve bit the bullet and purchased a split King latex mattress with 3 layers on each side. We are using our original king base with a piece of plywood on top to support the latex mattress, and have added a quilted mattress protector to give a little more softness. We’ve been sleeping on our new mattress for a month.
My side has a Dunlop Firm, Talalay Medium and Tallalay Soft composition.
Hubby’s side has Dunlop Firm, Dunlop Medium and Tallaly Soft compostion.
He seems to be sleeping well and not interested in making any adjustments.
However, I am waking with sore shoulders and hips…indicating issues with the support layers. No problems with comfort when I get into bed…just in the mornings.
I’d like to know what changes would be most helpful, since I can make layer changes at a reasonable cost from our seller for up to 90 days. Although our original plan was to switch our own layers around to find the best arrangement…with only 6 layers and 2 duplicates, we don’t have a lot of options. It seems my hubby would have to endure 2 layers of firm while I tested his medium Dunlop on my side…he doesn’t think this is a good idea.
I’m mostly a side sleeper and occasionally stomach…in the ‘generous’ size category .(>175<195).
So…should I try a different bottom layer, or middle layer, and what should I try? Would a Dunlop Medium on the bottom make any difference (instead of Firm), or should I focus on the middle layer and try a Dunlop Soft instead of the current Talalay medium?
As always, I appreciate your advice and help in navigating the ins and outs of finding perfect rest.

[mattresshow]

First, thanks for everything. I’ve been doing endless research the last several weeks and I think I’ve mostly made a decision.

The Yankee Mattress / Custom Mattress Makers mattress (Cocoa) just seems like an unbeatable value from a reliable, quality, but lesser known company.

https://custommattressmakers.com/collections/mattresses/products/cocoa-latex

My concern, however, is that the comfort layer / 2" of latex just simply isn’t “enough”.

I weigh about 225 and prefer a plush mattress. I’m a strict side sleeper. Will I sink in? Will I dig into the coils? Why does everyone else almost universally use 3" of latex and they use 2"?

I think that’s all for now. Thanks again.

[phoenix]

Hi mattresshow.

You are one of the lucky ones that managed to make it through and post… while we were dealing with the wave of spamming attacks using scripts that targeted our site in the last week or so.

So I bid you a hearty … Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

My concern, however, is that the comfort layer / 2" of latex just simply isn’t “enough”. I weigh about 225 and prefer a plush mattress. I’m a strict side sleeper. Will I sink in? Will I dig into the coils? Why does everyone else almost universally use 3" of latex and they use 2"?

All the layers and components of a mattress work together and affect each other and they also interact differently with each sleeper (which is why finding the right fit can be quite complex) The 2" of latex over the Leggett Quantum Edge Bolsa coil system is a solid design. especially for side sleepers and could be suitable for someone looking for a softer feel as you do. The combo of 2" latex and softer 15-gauge coils will work together and will adapt making it suitable for a certain range of comfort/support needs and preferences. As you noticed many other designs use 3" comfort layer but place it on top of a firmer coil system like the combi-zone Quantum Edge.

Without knowing your height, or body shape, it is difficult to determine if the Cocoa-latex mattress design is right for you. Generally speaking, it is a fairly plush sleeping system; and depending upon your BMI and body type the only concern I’d have is that the coil unit may be allowing you to sink-in to the point where spinal alignment is not ideal this is why I’d make sure to call them and ask for their recommendation as it relates to you. Custom Mattress Makers is one of our manufacturing Trusted Members of the site which means that I think highly of them and consider them to compete well with the best in the industry in terms of knowledge, service, and value. It’s usually far more effective to let a knowledgeable manufacturer make these types of recommendations rather than try to figure them out yourself because they have the long-term experience and customer database that is connected to their specific mattresses to be able to translate some very complex and interactive “specs” into meaningful information that most consumers can understand without being overwhelmed.

Phoenix

[Q8canuck]

Hello Phoenix,
Since my last post we’ve bit the bullet and purchased a split King latex mattress with 3 layers on each side. We are using our original king base with a piece of plywood on top to support the latex mattress, and have added a quilted mattress protector to give a little more softness. We’ve been sleeping on our new mattress for a month.
My side has a Dunlop Firm, Talalay Medium and Tallalay Soft composition.
Hubby’s side has Dunlop Firm, Dunlop Medium and Tallaly Soft compostion.
He seems to be sleeping well and not interested in making any adjustments.
However, I am waking with sore shoulders and hips…indicating issues with the support layers. No problems with comfort when I get into bed…just in the mornings.
I’d like to know what changes would be most helpful, since I can make layer changes at a reasonable cost from our seller for up to 90 days. Although our original plan was to switch our own layers around to find the best arrangement…with only 6 layers and 2 duplicates, we don’t have a lot of options. It seems my hubby would have to endure 2 layers of firm while I tested his medium Dunlop on my side…he doesn’t think this is a good idea.
I’m mostly a side sleeper and occasionally stomach…in the ‘generous’ size category .(BMI 30).
So…should I try a different bottom layer, or middle layer, and what should I try? Would a Dunlop Medium on the bottom make any difference (instead of Firm), or should I focus on the middle layer and try a Dunlop Soft instead of the current Talalay medium?
As always, I appreciate your advice and help in navigating the ins and outs of finding perfect rest.

[phoenix]

Hi Q8canuck.

I just noticed that your previous post got buried in the by another discussion in progress :oops: . I deleted the duplication and responded here.

Glad to hear that your “hubby” is sleeping well on the new mattress … Congratulations on your new mattress purchase … it looks like your side needs a bit of fine-tuning and it’s good that you had the foresight to order from a manufacturer that has good exchange policies.

However, I am waking with sore shoulders and hips…indicating issues with the support layers. No problems with comfort when I get into bed…just in the mornings. I’d like to know what changes would be most helpful, since I can make layer changes at a reasonable cost from our seller for up to 90 days…
It seems my hubby would have to endure 2 layers of firm while I tested his medium Dunlop on my side…he doesn’t think this is a good idea……
Would a Dunlop Medium on the bottom make any difference (instead of Firm),

I am not sure I understand correctly the configuration you have in mind but I tend to agree with your husband that the layering arrangement you mentioned may not work in your case. M/M/S on your side (from bottom to top) wouldn’t be adding the extra support that you seem to desire but instead would have just the opposite effect so I’d be concerned about your spinal alignment and support …. also on your husband’s side an F/F/S configuration would most likely make it too firm for his needs as well.

He seems to be sleeping well and not interested in making any adjustments.
However, I am waking with sore shoulders and hips… indicating issues with the support layers. No problems with comfort when I get into bed… just in the mornings.

As mentioned above there are some mixed messages in your descriptions regarding your support/comfort needs and you’d want to determine if it is the lack of support, comfort or both that causes the shoulder and hip soreness. Your initial assessment of adding more support seems to be pointing in the general direction as typically a more “generous” weight range sleeper would need both firmer base layers and firmer comfort layers to make sure the mattress keeps them in good alignment in all the sleeping positions. You may wish to revisit the info about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here which may be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” as you go through this identification process.

Typically shoulder and arm issues can come from a mattress that is too firm and puts direct pressure on the shoulders, the shoulder blades, or on the back muscles and can also cause soreness or numbness and tingling in the arms or can often come from postural issues as well. There is some much more detailed information on shoulder and arm issues in posts #2 and #3 here and I’d make sure to pinpoint the type of comfort/support (primary/secondary) issues that may contribute to your soreness and also assess the pillow you are using as this can be a big contributor as well. Hip issues, for side sleepers especially, can be caused by a comfort layer that is too firm or too thin where you can feel the firmness of either the sleeping surface itself or the support layers “through” the comfort layers. These are pressure point issues. In some cases though another reason for hip pain may be a mattress that is too soft which can cause your hips to be out of their neutral alignment and sink down too far which can hyperextend the hip joint and can lead to a burning feeling or pain from joints, muscles, and ligaments that are stretched beyond their neutral alignment. This would more of an alignment issue except instead of spinal alignment it’s about joint alignment. I’d also make sure to check the pillow issue and verify that the bed has good central support and if it is not sagging under the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it.

You may also wish to peruse some of the forum posts and threads about mattresses and higher weights and a forum title search on heavy (you can just click this) will bring up many of them. Some examples include post #2 here and post #2 here and this thread

Of course, your first best source of guidance is always coming from the manufacturer/retailer of your mattresses who can give you suggestions for their layering designs based on averages of other customers that are similar to you, but feel free to add your thoughts and clarify some of the issues I mentioned above and I’ll do my best to assist you.

Phoenix

[sparky]

Hi - I think from what I read about posting new questions this thread seems like an ok place to start mine but if I’m hijacking I apologize!

I’ll TRY to be concise but I think the backstory is important for getting any guidance. Sorry if it’s too much!

My husband (5’10, 185 lbs, 26.5 BMI) and I (5’5", 110 lbs, 18.3 BMI) have had (and loved) a king-sized tempurpedic for 15 years. I didn’t have any idea it was that old until I started having leg and hip discomfort in my sleep recently.

When that started I realized the top memory foam layer was pretty mashed. Each of us had a little furrow we were sleeping in. I didn’t think that was necessarily a bad thing - I liked my furrow! When the discomfort started to be a nightly thing I first thought it must be from pressure on my hip but after doing research here (lots of great info here!) and elsewhere I think it’s more likely misalignment from my pelvis sinking too low. I had that same sensation years ago sleeping for a couple of weeks on a soft, soft sofa.

I thought we’d just get another tempurpedic since we had really enjoyed it and at 15 years I think we more than got our money’s worth. (No indentations show when we’re not on it so the warranty wouldn’t apply). Then I saw the price point they’re selling tempurpedics at now and it made me start looking at other options and I got interested in latex.

As an experiment we turned our current mattress over. The bottom layer of our tempurpedic is a very firm foam (polyfoam?) but it has a little give and we were able to sleep on it for a few nights. Although the firmness wasn’t especially comfortable it wasn’t HORRIBLE and the pain in my legs/hip went away. I think that confirmed that discomfort’s from sagging down into the old memory foam. I did feel pressure-point discomfort on my hips and had to switch from side to side all night long but the other more unpleasant feeling was gone.

I thought we might be able to get away with just ordering a latex topper for the upside-down tempurpedic. So after reading a lot of info here I went with a 3" natural talalay in soft from Sleep EZ. (I believe their soft is 19-21 ILD.)

We got it this week and have had only 2 nights on it. When laying on it it’s very comfortable and my husband is fine. But I think I’m sinking in too much. It almost feels the same or softer than the memory foam felt. I haven’t had the same pain at this point but my legs definitely feel a little something. I don’t know if it’s my imagination since I’m obsessing over how it feels. So I plan to keep trying it for a while longer and maybe I’ll get used to it. I do tend to be the princess and the pea-ish so I’m worried that I’m never going to be able to find something perfect. Although the tempurpedic worked great for me so maybe we’ll end up ultimately getting another one – but after learning more about them I’d rather not.

As far as options I thought I’d ask now for any thoughts you might have if I don’t get used to it. Mailing it back to Arizona (we’re in Delaware) would be very expensive. I wondered if it continues to be ‘not perfect’ what the best bet is. Exchange it for something firmer? That seems like we’d just be just rolling the dice again and have no real idea how firm to go. And ordering and sending back is way too expensive to do more than once.

Or I wondered if putting a mattress pad on it – somewhat thick – might reduce the sinking-in aspect of the latex. Possibly a wool one? Although a good king size mattress pad isn’t cheap either so I don’t want to keep spending money especially on something non-returnable.

From reading about people designing beds it seems like a 3" soft talalay layer on top isn’t unheard of. And since I’m somewhat on the lighter end of the spectrum it doesn’t seem like I’d be sinking in so much that’s I’d be out of alignment more than other people who have a soft top layer of latex and no complaints. I’m really puzzled at this point. I thought for sure the 3" topper was going to be the perfect solution.

Does anyone having any thoughts? Thank you in advance! And thank you also, Phoenix, for all of the amazing work you’ve done on this forum. It’s really an incredible resource.

[phoenix]

Hi sparky.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

Thank you for all the background information you provided which can certainly make it simpler to offer input and also thanks for your kind comments … I appreciate it!

When that started I realized the top memory foam layer was pretty mashed. Each of us had a little furrow we were sleeping in. I didn’t think that was necessarily a bad thing - I liked my furrow! When the discomfort started to be a nightly thing I first thought it must be from pressure on my hip but after doing research here (lots of great info here!) and elsewhere I think it’s more likely misalignment from my pelvis sinking too low.

It’s always nice when people coming here go through a few of the mattress basics and track down the possible cause of the “symptoms” they are experiencing … what you’ve described is certainly typical for the aging and breakdown of foams within a mattress which usually leads to sagging, postural issues, and the type of pains that you are describing.

As an experiment we turned our current mattress over. The bottom layer of our tempurpedic is a very firm foam (polyfoam?) but it has a little give and we were able to sleep on it for a few nights. Although the firmness wasn’t especially comfortable it wasn’t HORRIBLE and the pain in my legs/hip went away. I think that confirmed that discomfort’s from sagging down into the old memory foam.

This is certainly a creative approach that can buy you sometime before needing to replace your current mattress. You did not mention this but I’m assuming that you’ve already checked the support system under your bed to rule out any bending or sagging under the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it. Generally, foams wear out from the top down as the upper layers of a mattress are subject to more compression than the lower layers. While the bottom polyfoam (Yes! to your “?” :)) layer of the mattress would be in better shape than the top comfort layers I’d keep in mind that the Base layer(s) in all the Tempur collections from more than a decade ago used AirFlow System of convoluted foam which in theory helps the layers to breathe but in practice with a 15 year old mattress even if you get the comfort/support just right for you …. the flipping of your mattress may somehow compromise the structural and support integrity you need for proper alignment. The new “configuration” with the firm 4" (which they used for many of their beds at the time) on top of the “mushed” memory foam can contribute to collapsing and bending to a certain extent of the poly layer into the “furrow” created by the foam breakdown of the comfort layers. (The degree depends on many factors such as the polyfoam thickness and age, convolution dimensions: pinnacle base thickness and height, IFD and of course density)

We got it this week and have had only 2 nights on it. When laying on it it’s very comfortable and my husband is fine. But I think I’m sinking in too much. It almost feels the same or softer than the memory foam felt. I haven’t had the same pain at this point but my legs definitely feel a little something. I don’t know if it’s my imagination since I’m obsessing over how it feels. So I plan to keep trying it for a while longer and maybe I’ll get used to it. I do tend to be the princess and the pea-ish so I’m worried that I’m never going to be able to find something perfect.

I don’t know which Tempur model you own but it would be interesting to open the zipper and see if the comfort layer can be removed and replaced with the 3" of latex from Sleep EZ … this way you’ll get a few more data points but I’d certainly give the now new set up a little longer to allow your body to go through the adjustment period before you decide the type of changes you may need based on your body’s feedback.

You are very light which means that depending on your primary sleeping position you won’t sink in as far into a foam material as people who are heavier and layer thickness also plays a role in the design of a sleeping system that is the most suitable for you. You may need to adjust the “standard” layer thickness -/+ an inch or so to sink in just enough to relieve pressure without allowing the heavier hips to sink in too far. Only working with softness options instead of thickness options may not be enough for some people who are either more sensitive, smaller (where changes can have a bigger proportional effect relative to the body) or have a body type and weight distribution that is outside the “averages”. You can read more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here but this depends more on the specific construction and combination of materials in the mattress and on how well your testing or personal experience indicates the mattress “as a whole” matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) than it does on just the thickness itself.

The balance between “allowing” the shoulders and hips to sink in enough to relieve pressure and at the same time “stopping” the pelvis from sinking in too far and affecting spinal alignment is part of the art and science of all mattress construction this is why I’d suggest that you work closely with Sleep EZ as they have an excellent track record of finding great “out-of-the box solutions” that involve using their products in combination with other products and making recommendations for any particular needs. As you can see this can get quite complex but again the three specifications of a foam material that control most of the pressure relief (along with layer thickness) are ILD/IFD, compression modulus, and point elasticity (and temperature sensitivity with memory foam) which together with the thickness of the softer layers create the pressure relieving “cradle” and needs to be balanced against it’s “opposite” which is support and alignment.

I’m looking forward to finding out what a few more nights of sleep on the new set up will bring … and of course any additional comments or questions you may have along the way that I or any of the Expert members of the site can help with.

Phoenix

[sparky]

Thank you very much for your reply, Phoenix.

I see your point about the flipped mattress possibly having sagging issues from the polyfoam now collapsing into the ‘spaces’ we’ve created in the memory foam - the mushed furrows. So for that reason I do only consider this a short-term fix and don’t want to spend too much money on the experiment before we give up and try to find a new mattress.

I’ll definitely give it more time for my body (and mind!) to adjust but last night I slept better than the previous nights. I’m hopeful.

If I decide to try to make any change I’ll check with Sleep EZ for their recommendation. When I talked to them originally they thought 3" was right because of the very firm surface it would be on. I guess 2" would allow us (more so my heavier husband I assume) to bottom out. So probably it would be an exchange for a firmer density – but maybe there are other options that they’d suggest.

In the meantime can you give me your opinion on the idea of a mattress pad if I want to dampen some of the squishiness of the latex rather than switching to a firmer density? I was looking at posts on wool fleece versions but maybe that really defeats the purpose of the latex or cancels out too much of its plushness. And once it compresses it might even seem too firm at pressure points?

Thank you again for your very valuable guidance!

[phoenix]

Hi sparky.

Thanks for your latest update …. I am glad to hear that your sleep is improving

In the meantime can you give me your opinion on the idea of a mattress pad if I want to dampen some of the squishiness of the latex rather than switching to a firmer density?

You are correct that a mattress pad or even a tighter protector …. especially a wool one that will compress a bit more with use can have the effect you are seeking. Most of the wool pads and protectors have stretchy corners or sides so they won’t bunch up while sleeping, but you can look for a tight pad/protector that wraps around all sides of your mattress to add a bit of extra stiffness. Thicker wool layers that are initially soft (and quite frankly nicer) will tend to compress and affect the feel of the layers underneath them over time more than thin ones .… Post #10 here has more information about mattress pads, protectors and the difference between them. Halfway through post #89 here there’s more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors for those who want (or don’t) to affect the feel and performance of their mattress. You may wish to check out some of our members here who have wool pads/protectors and can also have a look at different types of mattress protectors here and here.

I hope this is helpful and I’m looking forward to any ongoing updates you have the chance to share.

Phoenix

[Demill1866]

When one refers to blended talalay latex, what does that actually mean?

David

[Administrator1]

Hello David,

Thank you for visiting The Mattress Underground. The term “Blended” when is comes to latex foam (this applies to bot the Talalay and Dunlop process for making latex foam) has to do with the make up of the latex formula used to make the latex foam. Blended means that the latex used in the latex foam is a blend of natural and synthetic latex.
There are 2 types of the raw latex material component, natural latex which is harvested from the rubber tree (Hevea brasiliensis) and synthetic latex which is man-made, synthesized from petroleum. The core component of latex is a material compound called isoprene. Natural latex uses the naturally occurring organic compound produced in the rubber tree. Synthetic latex uses a man-made version of the isoprene compound. Blended latex is a mixture of the two types of latex. Blended latex is the most widely used formula type as it is seen to provide the benefits of each type of latex, specifically being more durable and more consistent while providing high levels of comfort and support.

TMU Admin

[Bro240]

So I’ve decided on a latex mattress. However, I’m basically down to the Sleep on Latex, Spindle or Sleep EZ. The sleep on latex is the cheapest, and I can’t really tell what I’m giving up. The others are around $500 more. Is there something I’m missing? I see they are all listed as trusted members so it seems like I’m choosing between good/good/good, just want to make sure I’m not missing out on anything by spending more.

[Q8canuck]

Hello again Phoenix,
I’ve taken some time to review all the suggested links from your previous reply, and we’ve also logged another month of sleep on our “new” latex mattress from Sleep Ez.
Our split king is 3 layers of 3" latex as follows:
Bottom layer both sides: firm Dunlop
Middle layer my side: medium Talalay, hubby has medium Dunlop
Top layer both sides: soft Talalay
The mattress sits on a plywood base in our bed frame, has a 1" wool cover and an additional quilted mattress pad I added for extra top cushioning.
After 60 days sleep on my configuration, I feel that I could be sinking too far into my middle layer of Medium Tallalay and wonder if changing to a medium Dunlop layer would make any difference. Would this be where the difference in ILDs between medium Dunlop and Talalay becomes significant?
My primary concern is whether the middle medium talalay layer on my side is sufficient support for a “generous” side sleeper, and would there be significant difference in changing it to a medium Dunlop layer?
I prefer a “sink in” feel for comfort, so have not really considered changing my top layer of soft Tallalay, but do have the option of changing to a Dunlop Soft if that would be more helpful than changing the middle layer.
We have 30 days remaining in our exchange window.
Recently we decided to swivel the mattress around so I could test hubby’s side with the medium Dunlop middle layer and although it’s been only a week, my perception is a firmer feel of support. Is this my imagination, or is there enough difference between the specs for medium Dunlop and medium Talalay to be noticeable? I know the composition is different, but do the numbers indicate a significant variance? Do different retailers have different specs for their Dunlop and talalay or is this a standard industry specification?
Once again, I appreciate the time it takes for you to digest and respond to all the individual queries you receive.Your specific replies are very helpful in making (and fine tuning) the numerous decisions in the search for perfect rest.

[phoenix]

Hi Q8canuck.

Glad to hear that you “logged another month of sleep on your new” mattress with no major setbacks. It seems that your hubby still enjoys his well-crafted side but you still have some doubts as to your layering appropriateness.

I feel that I could be sinking too far into my middle layer of Medium Tallalay and wonder if changing to a medium Dunlop layer would make any difference. Would this be where the difference in ILDs between medium Dunlop and Talalay becomes significant? … Is this my imagination, or is there enough difference between the specs for medium Dunlop and medium Talalay to be noticeable?

Talalay will weigh less than Dunlop per cubic foot of material because it has more air in it and the same ILD Dunlop is denser than Talalay. This is the basis for the angel food cake vs the pound cake analogy on our site. It will certainly feel a bit more supportive to most people … with some more sensitive individuals reporting that this made just the right amount of difference to achieve the ideal softens/firmness for them, but of course, this is not an exact science because this is dependent on so many personal and other interrelated variables. The best way to ensure that this would work out for you is (…as you did) to “borrow” the medium Dunlop from your hubby’s side and test it for long enough to ensure that the signals that your body sends you are consistent before you decide on the new layer exchange. You do not seem to experience pains at this time but I always tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to support as a primary concern so it is nice to see that you are reassessing the support issue especially as you also added a pad…but I’d also keep in mind that sometimes our bodies take a little longer to “accept” a change and get used to it, but once again only you can be the judge of this.

I know the composition is different, but do the numbers indicate a significant variance? Do different retailers have different specs for their Dunlop and talalay or is this a standard industry specification?

There is no real industry standard as it comes to ILDs for the different types of latex, from different sources, which may also use different ways of testing it. When it comes to ILDs your own experience is much more meaningful than the ILD numbers (which by themselves can act just as pointers because other specs such as the thickness of the layer, compression modulus, point elasticity and more are just as important to how soft or firm a mattress feels than ILD specs alone). There is more about this in post #2 here and there is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here All in all it is partly science and partly an art to “imagine” and predict how the layers of a mattress will interact together and with your individual body shape, weight distribution, and sleeping position. The good news is that you are already close enough to your ideal configuration and I’d make sure to seek a last word of advice from SleepEZ themselves as they would have all the information that would help make any meaningful comparisons between types of latex from different sources. (They have 4 different sources for their latex … and all would feel slightly different in the same ILD)

While my thoughts are of course generalizations and cannot replace your personal experience, I hope that they are helpful in deciding on this last eventual layering change. I am looking forward to any further updates you may have.

Phoenix