I’ve been reading through the forum and I think I have covered all of the tutorials and overviews-very helpful
My wife and I are looking for a replacement for our 7 year old Tempurpedic Cloud (it’s maintaining body impressions and sleeping hot). We have tried two other replacements to no avail: Wink beds which I liked fairly well but was too hard for her and the Alexander Hybrid which showed up damaged in transit and we tried it for a little while but it was not a good of a fit for us.
The challenge is that my wife is 5’4" 120lbs, sleeps on her side, and has a history of arthritis meaning she needs good pressure relief. She really prefers a soft (i.e. plus/pillow top) mattress. I’m 5’9" and 225. I sleep on my back-in part because sleeping on my side leads to numbness in my shoulders and arms (as an avid weightlifter, I’m fairly broad in the shoulders and struggle to find a good option for side sleeping that allows my shoulders to sink far enough into the mattress).
We have tried an all latex mattress before we owned the Tempur Cloud, and it was not a favorite of ours. Although it had a cool sleeping experience and nice support, we seem to have a strong preference for memory foam or at least memory foam-based hybrids.
At this point, we have laid on just about every mattress out there at the major retailers and have found the Cloud Luxe Breeze to be a favorite (but I’m not wanting to spend that degree of money on a bed at this point). We also found Beautyrest black hybrids (in plush or luxury firm with a pillowtop to be comfortable).
In looking through the members’ list on the forum, I haven’t found a lot of memory foam options that are national, but of those I have found I have looked closely at the Pure Crafted TrueEssence comfort firm (their softest). It is listed at 2.25" of 4lb gel memory foam, 5.5" of 2.4lb high density foam, and 3" of 1.8lb base foam.
I have also been considering the Amerisleep Colonial 2" of 4lb 11ILD on top, 4" of 1.65lb 23ILD in the middle, and 7" of 1.8lb 35ILD as a base. I have read the forum posts on Amerisleep and liked that is similar to the Cloud Luxe but also understand that although it is just inside the specs of “okay” for each layer, it may not be the most robust. Amerisleep recently adding a new bed, the Independence, that is also supposed to have a softer feel but I wondered your opinion on the materials: 2" of 4lb 11ILD top, 3" of 3lb 11ILD middle, and 9" of 1.65lb 40ILD foundation.
My only concerns RE the TruEssence is that it is hard to find user feedback (I’m sure it’s high quality, I’m just not sure about a comparable feeling bed to test out ahead of time), and I am not sure if it will be soft enough for my wife. My concern with the Amerisleep Colonial is that the density of the foams falls just inside the okay range-prompting my question about the Independence, with its different core foam, as a potential option.
If there are any other Cloude Luxe similar options out there that would be okay for a heavier sleeper, I’d love to track them down. Novosbed is about the only other one that I can seem to find. I am also someone who is okay with a slightly shorter mattress life for a more comfortable bed.
I should note that I am located in Indianapolis and have checked the forum for recommended options in this area; although, there were some recommendations provided- I didn’t see many that have a product similar to what we are looking for (memory foam).
It’s not unusual at all for a couple to have different needs and preferences and there is more information in the first part of post #2 here about some of the different ways that can be used to accommodate a couple that have very different body types or sleeping styles or different needs and preferences in a mattress. Of course the only way to know whether any specific mattress will be suitable for both of you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) will be based on your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) or your own personal experience.when you sleep on it.
Zoning systems of various types can sometimes be useful and worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right “balance” between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but once again the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good “match” for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience.
Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the durability guidelines here relative to your weight range … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article). The best way to know which types of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in general terms will be based on your own local testing or your own personal experience.
Each mattress category can include hundreds of different mattresses with a very wide range of different designs, different “feels”, different characteristics, and different firmness levels. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress “as a whole” so each mattress category will generally include some mattresses that have a design that will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP and others that use the same type of materials and components and are in the same category and may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on … even if it uses the same general type of materials and components.
The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).
Unlike the other major brands … for the most part Tempurpedic uses good quality materials in their mattresses but there are certainly other local and online options that would be better quality/value choices than Tempurpedic which tend to be significantly overpriced compared to other memory foam mattresses that use similar quality/density materials that may be just as suitable, just as durable, and better “value” choices (see post #2 here). With Tempurpedic you are paying a significant premium for the name on the label which has little to nothing to do with the quality and durability of the materials or how well you will sleep on a mattress.
Having said that … your BMI is higher than average (about 33) so there is also more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges or have a higher BMI.
While the process of how to choose a mattress would involve the same steps that are listed in the mattress shopping tutorial … most people in higher weight ranges (or that have a higher BMI) will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable than those that are in lower weight ranges (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn’t compress the mattress as much). I would be particularly cautious about mattresses that use more than “about an inch or so” of memory foam that is less than about 5 lb density or polyfoam that is less than about 2 lb density … particularly in the upper layers of the mattress (which would include the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe Breeze).
If you are researching online memory foam mattresses then the mattress shopping tutorial includes this link to a list of some of the better online memory foam options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) and several of them make memory foam mattresses that they describe as being reasonable approximations of the general firmness of many of the Tempurpedic mattresses. Several of the other retailers or manufacturers that are on the list that don’t specifically describe their mattresses as being similar to one of the Tempurpedic models would probably also be able to give you more information about which of their mattress would be the closest approximation to a Tempurpedic mattress that you prefer as well.
When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
I would suggest looking for mattresses that use materials that are suitable for your weight range to reduce the risk of choosing a mattress that may need to be replaced more quickly than you would hope for or alternatively if you do end up choosing a mattress that uses materials that would be more suitable for someone in a lower weight range then I would reduce your expectations about the durability and useful life of the mattress and how long it may be before you need to replace it accordingly.
These all include lower quality/density and less durable materials than I would suggest in your BMI range.
Off the top of my head … Novosbed (in their medium firmness level), and Rocky Mountain Mattress, and Tempflow, and Foamorder, and Christeli all make at least one or more mattresses that use 5 lb or higher memory foam but you would need to check their websites or talk to them to find out how they compared to any of the Tempurpedic mattresses.
I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the local lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.
In its simplest form choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person (or couple) really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …
Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.
Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.
Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
As a quick update. We purchased the Christeli Palais a few weeks ago and are a couple of weeks into sleeping on it. The quality of the mattress surpasses the two other direct to consumer options we tried leading up to this; however, I am not sure this one is “the one”. I can’t sleep on my side at all without my should going numb almost immediately-this doesn’t happen when I move to a different mattress in the house and hasn’t happened before (but does happen every night I try to sleep like this on the Palais). I have broad shoulders and I am wondering if I just can’t quite get the best combo of the top layer for enough sinkeage around them. This would generally lead to me believe that we need a softer top; however, I know it is not always that easy to diagnose the problem.
I will say that we have tried all the different combinations the Palais offers, but it still seems a challenge to find the right one. Christeli has been great to work with and this week we will be able to exchange it if we chose to do so, we just have to decide what we would change it to.
While it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because they can be very complex and there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.
There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.
These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing … at least to the degree that any symptoms are from your mattress rather than the result of any other circumstances or pre-existing issues you may have that may not be connected to a mattress.
While it’s only possible to guess and any suggestions would need to be confirmed with your own personal experience … based on your comments it sounds like you may need some additional softness in the comfort layers to “allow” your shoulders to sink in a little bit more.
It’s also possible that your shoulder numbness and discomfort could also be a pillow issue because one of the most common causes for neck and shoulder issues is the pillow you are using. A suitable pillow is an essential part of good alignment for the head and neck and upper body and can reduce some of the pressure on your shoulders because the gap between the head and the mattress and the curve of the cervical spine needs to be supported just like all other parts of the spine. Like mattresses … there are certain “needs” that depend on body type and sleeping positions but with pillows, personal preferences play a more important role because the face is much more sensitive to textures, temperature, smells, and other more subjective “feel” based properties of a pillow. There is more about choosing pillows in the pillow thread here.
There will also be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress (higher density materials can take longer) and it can be surprising to many people how much their sleeping experience can change over the course of the first month or so. Some of the suggestions in post #2 here may be helpful as well.
If you have been sleeping on your mattress for only two weeks and you have already tried several different configurations then you may not have slept for long enough on either the initial configuration or some of the subsequent configurations to give the mattress a chance to break in or for you to get used to and adjust to any one of them. It’s generally a good idea to sleep on the initial configuration for at least a couple of weeks (and preferably longer) before you begin to make any changes.
It would also be helpful if you could list the different combinations you have tried (in the order that you tried them) and how long you tried each of them and describe how your experience and “symptoms” changed with each of them relative to the others.
I’m not sure if they have any softer mattresses in their lineup that would be softer than the softest configuration of the Palais Grand Royale but they would be more familiar with all the options they have available than I am and if none of the Palais Royale configurations works well for you then they would be the best source of guidance about which of their other mattresses would have a better chance of success.
The folks at Christeli have been great to talk with in terms of strategy. Actually the person I spoke with after purchasing the Palais (the sales-focused person was not as clear in terms of the makeup of the mattress and the materials).
Anyway, if layer A is the soft layer (1" 6lb and 4" 5.3lb), B is the latex support, and C is the medium firm (3" 5.3lb foam) we have tried ABC, CBA, ACB, CAB. With the majority of time on ABC (as the two layers of foam on top of each other is quite unwieldy-too much foam) and CBA was too firm. Although the Palais is touted as providing multiple sleeping options, I would think that for most people it is really either ABC or CBA (as I would be surprised if people found the ACB or CAB to be comfortable (just my opinion).
In combos ACB/CAB the bed felt like a giant marshmellow and neither my wife nor I could make it through an evening of sleeping. In combination CBA (which we tried for a few days), I had some low back soreness and could not sleep on my side (shoulder issue). In ABC, I have less low back pain (just some nagging tightness-and more so in the middle back than lower) but still have the should issue when trying to transition to sleeping on my side. I have been in ABC for about two weeks of sleeping.
Although, placing the bed in the ACB formation would make it the softest Christeli bed, the ABC places it around the softness of the Madeline but firmer than the Briella. Interesting, there was a contributor to this forum a while ago who had issues with getting the softness/firmness balanced with the Palais and ended up getting a Madeline if I remember correctly,
In theory, I like the idea of a bed that is customizable; however, if really only of the options is a viable option for me as a particular sleeper, it becomes rather mono-specific.
With the other Christeli options being so much less expensive, I am trying to evaluate if it is worth having the extra investment in a bed that is “only okay” not bad but not great as of yet. of course, the risk is you only get on exchange, so if you end up not liking the one you exchange to you are out of luck.
With the window for a return being 40 days, I want to at least have a game plan together should we decide to exchange the bed. The savings for either exchange would be substantial $1600-$1860.
I have tried going from a low loft pillow to a medium loft, but haven’t seen any resolution for the shoulder issue.
I should point out that the foam does feel different than the tempurpedic that we slept on for 8 years. Christeli’s foam seems to rebound noticeably faster and have an overall denser feel than our old cloud supreme (even when accounting for break-in, I think it will feel different). The difference is by no means bad, I actually like it.
Thanks again for the feedback and suggestions, I will continue to update our experiences.
It sounds like you have tried most of the combinations available outside of the two combinations that remove one of the layers completely such as AB or CB.
It’s not surprising that very thick layers of memory foam in the top layers of a mattress such as the ACB or CAB combination wouldn’t work well for most people and it would be a more risky combination because memory foam will tend to get softer with changes in temperature and humidity and also with continuous pressure over the course of the night so even if two memory foam layers worked well when you first go to sleep at night the odds would be much higher that you would wake up out of alignment although it’s always possible that a few people may be exceptions and sleep well on it.
With most component mattresses that can be fine tuned after a purchase there would generally be a lower number of combinations that would work for “most” people than all of the combinations that are actually possible because some of them would only be suitable for a very small percentage of people but even if there are two or more then it can reduce the risk of an online purchase because a mattress that has two or more different firmness choices would have higher odds of success than a mattress that has only one. Of course once you have found the combination that is the most suitable for you (assuming that any of them are) then it would be unusual to continue changing it after that outside of more unusual circumstances (such as injury etc) where you may need or prefer a different firmness from your norm.
While I’m not clear on all the specific differences in your experience between the combinations you’ve tried and how any “symptoms” you were experiencing changed from one combination to another so I really can’t make any meaningful suggestions … it sounds like you are in good hands and they would be more knowledgeable than anyone else about how different combinations would compare to each other and to their other mattresses anyway.
It may take experimenting with more than 2 pillow choices and which pillow works best for you may also vary with the softness/firmness of the mattress or combination of layers you are using because if you are using a softer mattress you will sink into it more deeply and you may need a thinner pillow to maintain good alignment of your head and neck. Of course it’s also possible that the most effective solution may be changes in your mattress rather than changes in your pillow because all of these are just “possibilities” that you would need to confirm based on your own actual experience.
Most of the newer memory foam formulations have a different feel and are faster responding and less temperature sensitive than many of the older memory foam formulations mainly because of consumer complaints about heat issues and about the “stuck in sand” feeling that can make it more difficult to move or change positions on memory foam mattresses that use thicker layers of memory foam that have a slower response.
I’m looking forward to any additional updates that you have the chance to share.
Hi Substance-p! I’d love to hear more about how things turned out, what your final choice ended up being, and how the final choice matches up with your previous Tempur-Pedic Cloud bed. I am close to pulling the trigger on a Christeli but am slightly concerned about the fact that they’re no longer transparent about their foam density figures.