My 9" Mattresses247 bed and Journey into Latex

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
9

So After Day 1 … How did it Sleep?

The wife and I both felt it slept great. For the first time ever I do not feel like I am fighting to turn over. The “springiness” of Latex actually seems to assist in turning - :silly: . In the other bed which was a 14" Sealy inner spring, we had a 3" memory foam topper too. The topper was added a few years ago to add support as the Sealy had begun to form body impressions due to the comfort layer breaking down (cheap innards - not from the springs I don’t think). I remember thinking many nites in frustration while laying in bed, “if I wanted to sleep in twin hammocks I would have purchased hammocks.” The memory foam topper helped with this but really created a chore when trying to turn over. You sink into memory foam and sleep IN the bed.

Now on our first night with latex … our 3" comfort top layer is just as soft as the memory foam, but with totally different properties. Rather than sink and compress … it seems to more mold, shape, conform and push back. It is springy where memory foam is cushy. So while they are the same softness (or at least similar to the touch and feel by hand) they are 2 totally different beasts.

With Memory foam I felt like I was sleeping IN the bed. It encases you as you sink in … with latex I felt more like I was sleeping ON the bed and as it supports you.

The wife awoke and said her back did not hurt … which was odd, it usually does. I slept thru the night and do not recall tossing or fighting to turn over … again, odd - not my typical nites “sleep”. And it is not confirmed yet, but the wife either did not snore, or I slept thru it. Either way that is also something new, but I will have to experiment with that further.

I did feel the bed slept hotter than our Sealy with added Memory foam top. This made no sense. I thought it might be the mattress protector we had chosen, but tried it without and felt the same. But the “Hotter” might be me - I have been sick and I was just hot last night any way, So I will reserve that verdict.

Over all …we REALLY like sleeping on Latex so far. Hope this helps anyone who might be looking at a Latex bed in General or thinking of doing something with latex for the first time like we did or considering Mattresses247 specifically. I would not hesitate to buy from them again. Valeria at Mattresses247 was helpful and put up with all my questions. I plan to check in with updates for the next several months. Wanting to see how all the parts “break in”. So more to come.

10

Hi MrM1, glad to see you got your mattress and that all is working out well so far for the most part. As for the foundation, maybe something could be placed between the legs to prevent that one from bending inward? like a piece of 2x4 acting as a ‘spreader’ between that leg and the one opposite it on the other side laying crossways under the bed’s width. I can’t say for sure, but imagine you’ll want to be careful moving the bed. In my experience with metal, metal tubing etc is that once it bends it becomes more likely to bend again in the same place. Sort of creating a weak area (or weaker than other areas) and the bend acting as a crease even if it’s straightened back out. Looks good though. Congrats :slight_smile:

11

Good idea on the brace. That would probably create A long term solution.

12

Hi MeM1,

Wow … thanks for taking the time to share such detailed comments, pictures, and feedback … I appreciate it!

It seems like all your choices turned out very well with the possible exception of the base. Some of the comments I read when you first asked about it indicated issues with legs bending, the center support bending, slats breaking or not fitting properly, or other quality/durability issues and since you are the first one I know of on the forum to buy it I’ll be interested in any ongoing feedback you have the chance to share.

I also think brass’ suggestion about bracing the legs is a good one.

Thanks again :slight_smile:

Phoenix

13

I am thinking thru now how I might do a leg support system. Should be pretty easy and still not restrict movement under the bed too much since we plan to use that area for storage.

With the Foundation, I found the best way to assemble it was to leave everything loose (the metal cross supports and corners) until the slats are locked in. I was having a tough time getting everything to lock in until I loosened it all up. The the slat supports locked in very nicely and I finished by tightening everything up to spec.

14

Official Warranty Update from Mattresses247

I tend to agree with this and really have no problem with the lack of warranty. My Warranty Experience came with a pro-rate and a “store credit to buy another crappy mattress.” In the end I was still out several hundred dollars … about the same price as it will cost me to purchase a new comfort top layer … IF I EVER NEED TO. And from what I could find, Mattresses247 has the lowest price on 9" mattresses of any one I could find. So it seems to be kind of a Pay Now (for a warranty) or MAYBE Pay Later (for replacement parts) … Maybe.

15

Hi MrM1,

As you probably know from your time here … I also consider knowing the quality of the materials to be more important than a warranty in spite of the fact that even the best materials may fail on rare occasions.

This probably also means though that what you purchased wasn’t actually a mattress per se but individual components that you put together yourself into a mattress. I’m curious if it has any law tags because if it was sold as an actual mattress then it would also be required to have law tags that listed the material content and that it passed the fire regulations.

If it has law tags then it would also identify the manufacturer and there would normally be a warranty of some kind from the manufacturer.

Phoenix

16

I did not think about law tags and warranty. But while this was purchased as a “mattress” and not a DIY build to suit, I kinda considered it to be more of a package bundle more than a finished mattress.

… But That said …

… One Law Tag coming up …

:wink:

This Was … ?? Ummmm … IS … IS (I did not remove it under penalty of Law) on the Zipper cover.

17

Hi MrM1,

Thanks for the picture … that’s very interesting.

According to the Law Tag it seems to be a SleepEZ organic 10000 which would normally mean that it has the SleepEZ warranty but the materials inside it don’t seem to match the organic 10000 so I’m not sure whether it’s just a SleepEZ cover or a SleepEZ mattress.

Now you have me curious :slight_smile:

Phoenix

18

[quote=“Phoenix” post=41923]… but the materials inside it don’t seem to match the organic 10000 so I’m not sure whether it’s just a SleepEZ cover or a SleepEZ mattress.

Now you have me curious :slight_smile:

Phoenix[/quote]

Why do you say the materials don’t match? Isn’t SleepEZ selling Radium Latex? They are using the same firmness selections: Soft, Medium, Firm, X Firm etc, just in a different presentation package. The only difference I could see between this and a SleepEZ if that the core layers are glued together Medium on one side and Firm on the other and wrapped in an inner cover. No where on the SleepEZ site do I find a core like that, but wouldn’t it be fairly easy to do … Glue to pieces together to change the product line sightly?

Then there was the boxes. Some bodies label was clearly removed from all 3

So the Plot Thickens … :evil:

19

Hi MrM1,

SleepEZ has individual layers and this seems to be the organic model (thus the 100% natural latex on the tag) and my understanding was that yours has the blended Talalay from Radium.

None of this has anything to do with the quality of the materials in your mattress but it just has me curious why your mattress wouldn’t have a warranty if it was made by SleepEZ.

Phoenix

20

[quote]

SleepEZ has individual layers and this seems to be the organic model (thus the 100% natural latex on the tag) and my understanding was that yours has the blended Talalay from Radium.
Phoenix[/quote]

Hey … so I got a better deal than I thought? Hmmmmm … Perhaps it is just a cover that does not reflect the insides.

21

Here is how the eBay ad was written

BEST SALE – ALL 100% TALALAY 9" LATEX MATTRESS – Best Comfort and Support!

22

Hi MrM1,

In most cases … 100% Talalay “translates” as blended Talalay.

Regardless of what is in your mattress though I think you made a great quality/value purchase but my nature is to be curious about “mysteries” :slight_smile:

Phoenix

23

Yeah now I’m more curious than before … :blink: And I’m hoping you can get to the bottom of this. Just for interests sake.

Regardless of how it shakes out, I still think I got a good deal on a great mattress. I am not concerned what you will find, but like you, I am curious - I like to figure things out. And I guess that’s why the whole Semi-DIY latex mattress thing appealed to me in the first place. If I dont like it I can take it apart and remake it myself. And know what this thing is made of from the floor up thru the comforter.

So From this end, the mattress is still a 3 layer Talalay (blended or otherwise) 9" mattress with a very nice bamboo cover and I am out like $1,325 for the Cal-King mattress and foundation before linens … :woohoo: I still cant go wrong here. But I wanna give you all the info I know to work thru the “mystery” now :smiley:

24

Hi MrM1,

If I manage to find anything out I’ll certainly let you know :).

Phoenix

25

Sleeping on Latex … Day 6

Well after the first 2 days of sleeping on the bed I noticed that we started to get what I would call softening and perhaps ever-so-slight body impressions on the His and Her sides. Our sleeping zones were plush soft, but the center was noticeably more firm …

Whoa !?! :blink:

Only after 2 days? Really? Is this typical for Latex Brake-In?

If you looked across the bed with a single sheet on it you could actually see what would be the “impressions”. This picture shows the locations. You cannot see this in the pictures (I drew the locations in), but you could visible see them and could feel the change in comfort as you moved your legs across the bed or rolled across the bed.

The bed was sleeping fine the first 2 nites, but I wanted to see if moving the latex pieces around would effect the body impressions … OR … if the body impressions had to do with the Foundation.

If you look at the pics on page 1 of the foundation you can see that it is designed of 3 equal zones (His side, Middle, Her side) and each section has the same number of arched, flexible birch slats - 23.5" each. I theorized that the body impressions might have to do with the Left and Right side of foundation and those arched flexible slats starting to loose their “spring” (probably not … but maybe).

So to test this idea, I took the bed apart and rotated all the layers 180*, but did not flip any of the layers. Put the bed back together and the visible impressions were no longer visible. The feeling of comfort had changed just a little. The sleeping “zones” were still fine but now you could no longer feel the change when moving your legs across the middle. The middle WAS though still noticeably firmer. Is this due to the seam?

As I took the Latex apart, I also noticed the comfort layers had some imperfections. Some stuff I could photograph, other stuff did not show in the pics. But there were some “divots” in a few places and edge nicks (could have happened in the zipping). Also when I picked up the top layer, if not careful it would start to “tear” along the holes like a perforation …

… Is this Normal? Seems like it might be.

There were also some “rough” looking places where it almost looked like when you take a cake out of a pan and just a little of the cake sticks to the pan and there is some imperfections in the cake surface where it stuck - places like that in the latex. Is this common?

But in these pics you can see the seams (normal) and a few of the imperfections.

Does Mattresses247 sell factory seconds??? I thought I had read in a few other threads that they used to several years ago, but were no longer. Supposedly everything is new and in first run new condition.

26

After I did the 180* rotation of the layers … I woke up after the 3rd nite and the center of my back in my spine really hurt. I had not had this pain since I had slept on a bed 27 years ago down in Miami in a hotel. That was odd. First 2 nights fine, Nite 3 and rotation of the layers (not flip and no layer changes - still set up top to bottom: Soft / Medium / Firm). Kinda weird.

Well, this new pain continued each morning for the next 4 nights (we’ve now slept on the bed 6 nights), but got a touch better each day. The bed felt great getting into it (comfort), but I had this mid back in the spine pain each morning (support). I was sleeping really well and having no memory of waking in the night. Maybe i was sleeping so well I was not moving (unlike my other bed) and thus staying in the same position too long causing the mid back spine pain … ??? maybe.

Well like I said, it was getting better, but being the “Princes and the Pea” that I am, I could not leave well enough alone. Was it the foundation and those flexible slats?

I knew the standard for Latex mattresses was slats only 2" apart and a firm no flex foundation. This birch plywood flex slat foundation was close but not exactly that. My plan before I got the foundation was to modify it … so I though after day 6 … that is what I will do. Latex beds do not like flex, but rather firm foundations. Easy fix … head to the home center, and pick up enough 1x4 to remake the slats. I used zip ties to lash the slats to the bed frame. Worked out well, And I am still coming in much less cheaper than a typical slat latex bed foundation. Now I have about $200 in the foundation … and it is the height and look that I want … and it is a firm foundation now with NO flex.

Old flex birch slat foundation on the left (The Boyd Sleep System as sold by Walmart, Overstock, etc), New foundation re-design on the Right

27

Sleeping on Latex … Day 7

Here is the completed bed now with the improved foundation, new comforter set (that arrived Tuesday) and layers put back to the original first 2 nite positions.

Now after 7 nites, a redesigned foundation … AND … re-rotating all the layers back to their original position, I seem to have slept fine. I DID NOT wake with the mid back spine pain this morning.

  • was it because I took a muscle relaxer before bed? (unrelated to morning bed back pain)
  • was it because I moved the layers back to the original position?
  • or was it because I re-designed the foundation into a 2" spaced, 1x4 slat, firm foundation?

I dunno. But I am thinking - Now that I have the bed and foundation where I wanted it to be from the beginning, I will sleep on it for a week or so and see how it goes. If the mid back spine pain happens again, when it is time to wash the sheets in about a week I think I will open up my side and Flip the split core layer on my side. Currently the bed is set up top to bottom: Soft 22-24 / Medium 30-32 / Firm 38-40. If the pain comes back I will try changing those layers: Soft 22-24 / Firm 38-40 / Medium 30-32 effectively firming up the core / support layer.

28

Hi MrM1,

Thanks for another great set of comments and pictures :).

Yes … a break in and adjustment period is typical for any mattress (see post #2 here). You would also probably notice some small impressions with any natural fiber material and you would also likely also notice some unevenness across the surface if your foundation doesn’t have a flat and rigid surface because the latex will adapt to the contours of the surface.

If you mean the glue seam then no you wouldn’t feel it.

Yes … this is not only common but “normal” with latex (see here).

As you mentioned they used to but haven’t for several years and as far as I know this hasn’t changed. Val is also “good people” and would tell you if she was.

It is also perfectly normal for someone’s sleeping experience to change over the course of the first few days as the mattress breaks in and they adjust to a new sleeping surface but I would tend to avoid making any changes at first unless there was a specific reason for them because your body may not have enough time to adjust and “catch up” to the changes. For example many people have experienced testing different mattresses over the course of the day where the different sleeping surfaces they have tried caused their backs to complain even though any one of them may not have been an issue.

If your experience becomes a pattern then would be the time to consider re-arranging or changing layers. The time you spend in a particular position that is “on the edge” in terms of alignment can certainly have an effect on your sleeping experience or any discomfort or pain you feel because spending only a little time out of alignment before you change positions may be fine but spending longer amounts of time may cause discomfort or pain.

Having flex in a foundation isn’t necessarily “bad” but it will change the feel and performance of the mattress because it would be a more “active” part of your sleeping system and if your mattress was already on the edge of being too soft then having flex in a foundation may be enough to put you over the edge. In most cases though … a firm non flexing surface is the “safest” choice unless your actual experience indicates otherwise.

[quote]Now after 7 nites, a redesigned foundation … AND … re-rotating all the layers back to their original position, I seem to have slept fine. I DID NOT wake with the mid back spine pain this morning.

  • was it because I took a muscle relaxer before bed? (unrelated to morning bed back pain)
  • was it because I moved the layers back to the original position?
  • or was it because I re-designed the foundation into a 2" spaced, 1x4 slat, firm foundation?[/quote]

It could be from any one or all of them combined but more importantly than “why” is whether your experience becomes a “pattern” where you sleep well without pain or discomfort. If the time comes to change anything then it’s usually a more effective approach to make a single incremental change at a time so you can identify the effects of each change without too many variables involved.

I think that’s a good idea and I would use your actual experience to decide on what to change if that becomes necessary.

I also have confirmed that the cover in your mattress was an old version of a SleepEZ cover that they used to use and which were sold at a significant discount as an individual component when they changed their design and not as part of a complete mattress. The law tag was attached because the cover was designed to be used as part of a specific mattress with specific layers inside that had been prototyped and tested to pass the fire regulations but the testing and regulations don’t cover different layers that are inside the same cover. In other words … what you purchased wasn’t a complete mattress that has passed the fire regulations but individual components that came from different sources that you put together yourself and the law tag that indicates that the mattress has “passed” the fire regulations or that indicate specific materials doesn’t apply to the individual layers that are inside your mattress. It just happened to be attached to the covers that she purchased that were meant to be part of a different mattress.

Phoenix