While they are a little unclear ā¦ I can see what I think is the ridge you are talking about but it seems to be towards the head of your mattress and going across the mattress rather than from head to foot off center. Am I seeing this correctly?
I can also clearly see what looks like sagging and this certainly isnāt the norm for a latex mattress that is so new.
I would be interested in whether you can isolate the source of the sagging (which didnāt seem to be happening with the individual layers on the floor so the reason for the sagging is somewhat of a mystery to me) or in whether your new split layers solve the issues you are having.
Well after 7 months I could not be happier with this Latex Bed. Mattresses247 was a joy to work with and did everything they could to resolve any (real or perceived) sag / seam issue we had back in October.
In November we agreed Mattresses247 would ship me a new top layer that was in 2 parts not glued prepaid. And I would return the solid glued seam soft upper layer and replace it with a split soft layer. Return was hassle free. I just the packing method linked earlier here in this thread once the new layer arrived. Mattresses247 immediately refunded my credit card less shipping once the old top was received.
Our replacement 2 part top arrived early November and has been perfect ever since. After 4 months there is no noticeable āsagā in the top and the seam has disappeared.
Let me say ā¦ for me, I could feel and find my glued seam even though I am told you are not suppose to be able to feel it. So I would not recommend it but would rather select a split top for 2 reasons:
the already mentioned seam and
if one side fails you only have to replace half the top not the whole top.
Again for me, going with the split is the way to go, just feels more consistent across the bed surface.
About the Bed: It is a Cal King, and I created a modified very solid all wood top foundation (see previous posts for pics). The Cal King consists of 3 layers, each split in 2 parts. The Medium and Firm layer are each 3"s glued together to form a 6" base. They can be flipped for desired comfort. Both Medium / Firm parts are enclosed in a nice cover that then fits inside the Bamboo zipper cover. The top is a soft split 3" layer that is uncovered and goes inside the Zipper cover.
The only draw back to the Medium / Firm being joined is that you could not have say a medium or firm on top ā¦ unless you put your Soft on the bottom. I would think the slats of the foundation might be hard on the soft topper if it was on the bottom and would not be an ideal configuration. So in this bed, the combo you could not have is a Firm / Soft / Medium or a Medium / Soft / Firm set up from bottom to top ā¦ But the Medium / Firm can be flipped for either sleepers side so that the bed can be some what customized.
At the end of the day, I think the Full Latex bed is the way to go for us. I still believe we got the best price out there for a full 9" Talalay Cal King bed and I could not be happier with the bed. PPP is perfect for me and the wife. Support is very nice and Latex (unlike memory and other foams IMO) is āspringyā so you do not sacrifice the feel of an inner spring as much as other foams might. Wife no longer complains of shoulder pain. The only observation I would make is that in a bottom to top Firm / Medium / Soft set up ā¦ you will Not sleep in the bed (sinking in) but rather on the bed. I may in the near future want a little more sinking in feel and may purchase a 2" super soft topper ā¦ that is a personal preference ā¦ but in general ā¦ The support is great, turning over is effortless, I sleep soundly and wake up refreshed after 7 months. Best bed we have ever had.
So Yes ā¦ after 7 months I could recommend both a latex bed for us and Mattresses247 to anyone seeking a Latex bed.
So I am guessing I need to test this pretty quickly and then find out what constitutes defective.
update
hi, everybody
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Not sure I follow. Are you saying you purchased a Mattresses247 bed and āmightā have a problem? My impression from them was they wanted the buyer to be happy. I think they would have replaced the top ā¦ problem or not. I am not even sure there was a problem ā¦ I just did not like the seam and it appeared to me to be prematurely aging. My replacement top is flawless.
But yes ā¦ they give you 30 days (I think) ā¦ I called/contacted on like the 29th day after delivery. They worked with me completely after that for another 6 weeks of trouble shooting and replacement.
Phoenix ā¦ wondering here. Would a 15 ILD 2" topper on top of my 19-22 soft 3" top layer create much more āsink inā than I am presently experiencing.
Great thread and feedback, MrM1. However I am a bit confused, to be honest.
Why would someone who claims āPPP is perfectā and that they āsleep soundly and wake up refreshedā want to change the mattress so that they sink in more?
Fair Question. My old mattress was an S Brand inner spring with a private label name so you that you can never āprice matchā if you find the āSameā mattress at a lower price (a scam in and of itself). It began to fail after about 6 months. We lived with it and its deteriorating condition for another 6 years, topping it with a 4" piece of memory foam its last 2 years of usefulness.
I am a side sleeper ā¦ sleeping with the top leg out front and bent, the bottom leg on its side and straight. In the Foam / Inner spring combo, sleeping like this would cause my rib cage and hip bone to be pressed together so I could not stay in that position for very long. So I would end up sleeping more rolled toward my back ā¦ not ideal for me.
When we got the latex bed that all changed. My hip would no longer sink deep into the bed and my spine was straight while laying on my side (yes we checked it with a 4ā level in both beds. Curved in the spring / Straight on the latex). So I began several months of blissful side sleeping. Until a few months ago I started noticing my right knee (the knee of my dominant lower straight leg) was sore all the time. So I began to wonder why ā¦ and recently I discovered that my perfect sleeping position was now part of the problem. I liked it so much, that involuntarily I began rolling more and more toward my stomach, extending my upper leg further and further out. All good ā¦ except ā¦ now my lower leg is not on its side, but rather nearly upside down with the top of my knee in the mattress. By not āsinking inā the bed ā¦ this was causing my ankle and foot to be nearly unsupported and thus undue pressure was being applied to my knee as thru the night my leg stayed bent in the wrong direction because of the unsupported weight of the ankle/foot ā¦ over extending the knee.
My thinking is ā¦ if I get a little more āsink inā ā¦ i can stay in the position I like, and my knee will sink in allowing support to my foot/ankle and stop the weight of the 2 from pulling my knee in the wrong direction.
[quote=āMrM1ā post=50430][quote=āLJGMDADā post=50372]Great thread and feedback, MrM1. However I am a bit confused, to be honest.
Why would someone who claims āPPP is perfectā and that they āsleep soundly and wake up refreshedā want to change the mattress so that they sink in more?[/quote]
Fair Question. My old mattress was an S Brand inner spring with a private label name so you that you can never āprice matchā if you find the āSameā mattress at a lower price (a scam in and of itself). It began to fail after about 6 months. We lived with it and its deteriorating condition for another 6 years, topping it with a 4" piece of memory foam its last 2 years of usefulness.
I am a side sleeper ā¦ sleeping with the top leg out front and bent, the bottom leg on its side and straight. In the Foam / Inner spring combo, sleeping like this would cause my rib cage and hip bone to be pressed together so I could not stay in that position for very long. So I would end up sleeping more rolled toward my back ā¦ not ideal for me.
When we got the latex bed that all changed. My hip would no longer sink deep into the bed and my spine was straight while laying on my side (yes we checked it with a 4ā level in both beds. Curved in the spring / Straight on the latex). So I began several months of blissful side sleeping. Until a few months ago I started noticing my right knee (the knee of my dominant lower straight leg) was sore all the time. So I began to wonder why ā¦ and recently I discovered that my perfect sleeping position was now part of the problem. I liked it so much, that involuntarily I began rolling more and more toward my stomach, extending my upper leg further and further out. All good ā¦ except ā¦ now my lower leg is not on its side, but rather nearly upside down with the top of my knee in the mattress. By not āsinking inā the bed ā¦ this was causing my ankle and foot to be nearly unsupported and thus undue pressure was being applied to my knee as thru the night my leg stayed bent in the wrong direction because of the unsupported weight of the ankle/foot ā¦ over extending the knee.
My thinking is ā¦ if I get a little more āsink inā ā¦ i can stay in the position I like, and my knee will sink in allowing support to my foot/ankle and stop the weight of the 2 from pulling my knee in the wrong direction.
Whew ā¦ hope that makes any sense.[/quote]
Ok, so āwaking up refreshedā isnāt quite the case. Youāre waking up with right knee pain. Sorry if it seems like Iām being a stickler about it, but I do think itās important for folks not to overstate their level of satisfaction (or the inverse). The more transparency on forums like this, the better for everyone.
Now my only concern is that you really canāt control your position while asleep on your side and if you change the mattress just be sure you donāt get rid of any current layers because the change might have other unintended consequences and you might want to go back to the current combination which youāve loved so much for so many months. Since you sound like youāll be adding rather than swapping layers, then youāre probably covering all bases.
MrM1 thanks for updating your thread. I wondered how you were getting on. Iām really pleased to hear that Mattresses247 did right by you. I have been holding off because of dread over the prospect of having to return something that doesnāt feel right. That prospect is a little less troubling thanks to your update.
I hope Iām not irritating anyone with this related but slightly off topic question, but I was wondering if during your search you tried out the Ikea Morgangava. If so, and if you recall, how did it compare to the Mattresses247 mattress you ended up with? That was one of the few we were able to try out locally.
Iām not MrM1 of course but I do know that the Morgongava uses continuous pour dunlop that has a C3 firmness rating which would be roughly equivalent to an ILD in the low - mid 30ās with Talalay which would be somewhat similar in firmness to the middle layer of MrM1ās mattress. Itās also thinner so overall it would be a fair bit firmer. It would also have a different āfeelā than Talalay which is more resilient than Dunlop. There is more about the differences between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here.
Hopefully MrM1 will have some additional comments based on his own experience if he tried the Morgongava as well.
Thanks for that input Phoenix. I guess Iām trying to compare apple and oranges. I also assumed the Morgongava would be firm, but after laying on it for a short time I had the sense it wasnāt giving me enough support in the middle (Iām primarily a stomach sleeper unless the mattress is too soft in which case I switch to my side and use pillows to keep me aligned). I found the same to be true of the PLB Talalay mattress we checked out. It just didnāt seem to support my pelvis enough to keep me from feeling swaybacked. So I guess I favor an unusually firm bed. The trick is finding a mattress that is both firm enough for my back but soft enough for my pressure points. I donāt have much meat on me and joints can start feeling like they are poking through my skin if the bed is too hard. So firm is good. Hard is bad.
Only one mattress left me with no complaints after a half-hour test and it was a 3-layer Arpico Dunlop. Unfortunately, it was about twice the cost and the vendor is being deliberately vague about the specs so I canāt comparison shop. The Mattresses247 Dunlop is not Arpico, so no comparison is possible there either.
I canāt afford to make a mistake, so here I sit. It seems like this shouldnāt be so hard. I hope these mattresses become more mainstream in the future, but unfortunately not fast enough for us. Our pillow top innerspring mattress is shot and it is really becoming a factor in our quality of life.
Thanks again for this most helpful site. Because of it we have a much better chance of choosing right.
I did not ā¦ but I did lay on some 50/50 foam Talalay and did not care for them. And for me, something in the 28 to 32 ILD range would be way too firm.
Again to be clear ā¦ I think my only āproblemā with my mattress was a perception in the glued seam. I cannot really say if it was a real problem or not. I just tend to be a āPrinces and the Peaā type. And I know it could be ācorrectedā if I just got the split top rather than the glued top.
IMO ā¦ for the price that Mattresses247 is charging for 9"s of Talalay ā¦ if you go and try out a similar system somewhere else, you cannot go wrong with their bed.
Have you considered a DIY using eBay parts? I have seen a few different top layer makers the claim multiple ILD zones across the sleeping surface. I know this would be getting into ābed scienceā and Phoenix can give you more tips and warnings on that ā¦ but it would be something to consider.
Actually it is/was the case until I started to ārollā ā¦ And still is. I am thinking the knee pain is the sleeping position ā¦ not entirely sure. I do not wake up with it, so much as I have been having it thru the day more and more lately. Actually the knee pain has been on going ā¦ so even if it is the bed ā¦ the bed has not cause it, but at worst aggravates it.
Trying to Journal the Journey the best I can (good / bad / and ugly) and hopefully help someone else along their way make a better decisions. I have no ties or loyalties to M247 ā¦ I pulled the trigger after an extensive search to save some coin. And have wanted others to know how it has worked out - both in the area of a multi layer Talalay bed in general and M247 specifically.
Actually I think sleeping positions are some what controllable (Iām not a control freak ā¦ more of a control enthusiast) . But yeah ā¦ its just a matter of starting off in the better position. I still do not have to resort back to the āalmost-on-my-backā position of the Foam/Spring set up of Olā . The ideal had been reached in getting the latex. I just started to slide into more of a stomach position after several months. I have started in the past few weeks to roll back a touch ā¦ but honestly ā¦ My knees / knee is just cranky. Might have something to do with being a cyclists too.
Hey Iām just saying as a reader it started to get confusing the way you were heaping praise on a product while at the same time talking about wanting to change the characteristics of it due to being in pain. Itās great that you have no affiliation with M247, and now after clarification itās clear that your mattress seems to be causing pain in a certain sleeping position.
I am also going to try to chronicle my experience with Flexus, time permitting. I looked at M247 and shied away from zoned latex because Iām a back sleeper and it seem best (to me) for side sleepers, plus I was concerned itād be a lot more difficult to āget rightā. I also figure that latex will sort of naturally zone itself, if you will, over time anyhow. Parts of the body that are heavier will soften their zones of the latex more than the lighter parts of your body will. I also wanted a warranty that was going to be hassle free. I figure Flexus might go out of business before their non-prorated warranty expires - in fact they probably will. But at least as long as they are around, Iāll be covered. For whatever that ends up being worth.
I actually wonder if more firmness - not softness - would help prevent the roll. You say it started happening after several months. Well in that time the mattress itself has become softer from breaking in.
Just to chime in here ā¦ based on reading all of his posts I think that MrM1 has been unusually fair and balanced and detailed in his comments and feedback about his mattress and sleeping experience both positive and negative. Sometimes itās not possible to predict how you will feel on a mattress months down the road if something changes (especially if itās not connected to the mattress) and I donāt see the same contradictions in his comments and feedback that you do.
It may be worth trying a body pillow which can often help people that sleep in a forward leaning side position by keeping them in a less twisted or āforward leaningā position and still having the ācomfortā of feeling something against their stomach.
@ CosmicHam,
Many local manufacturers or retailers legitimately treat the ILD of their layers as being proprietary because ācomfort specsā have little to do with the quality of a mattress and with careful testing your body will tell you what you need to know about whether the mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP. They are also well aware that the only reason that a customer would generally want or need to know this type of information is because they are trying to duplicate the mattress somewhere else.
If you were able to find out the ILD range (ILD isnāt exact) or the density of their layers (density is a comfort spec with latex) then another mattress with layers that were the same type and blend of latex and the same thickness and that had a similar cover and quilting (the cover/quilting can have a significant effect on the feel and performance of a mattress) would be closely equivalent regardless of the manufacturer of the Dunlop latex.
There are many DIY latex resellers, and just keep in mind that M247 (on Ebay) is mostly selling a speciality product - zoned latex, in addition to some natural Talalay. By the way, what are the DIY latex resellers doing with used latex that comes back in returns? It is illegal to resell used mattresses, but if itās just latex - not a mattress, perhaps they can just turn around and sell someoneās used/returned latex to you! Who knows. But something to consider. Iām not sure how all the DIY latex resellers handle this.
I also tried Ikea mattresses, and found them very firm. They are probably a good base for a softer comfort layer that youād add yourself. But at that point itās far less economical, and just simply buying a mattress with return/swap opportunities from one of the many great online dealers seems to be a better choice - in my opinion of course.
