Natural all-latex options for Austin area

[cat]

Lots of helpful info here, but I find myself a bit overwhelmed.

I was originally looking at the base option from Habitat Furnishings, largely because the long trial period and return policy seems pretty great, the limited selection offers simplicity, and less than 2k for a complete set (mattress, foundation, topper, mattress protector, shipping) appeals to the beau’s budget; to be most accurate, less than $500 would be closer to the beau’s ideal budget, but I just got a job, and I’m the one sleeping poorly, so I am all motivation to pay for quality.

I plan to get out and test some local options (and identify PPP), but in another thread, Phoenix mentioned better values than Habitat, and I was wondering what those might be; ie, If they are directly comparable, with these considerations.

I’m female, 5’6", 110 lbs, usually a side/back sleeper who prefers some firmness (for my back, I’ll happily sleep on the floor with light padding) and, currently, lower back pains and other aches that are exacerbated by our truly ancient, center-dipping coil-spring. Sir is 5’9"ish, 185 lbs, starts on his side and shifts to his back, claims he has no firmness preference, and has recently started getting hip and shoulder pain. We’re both just into our 30s.

I’m interested in all-latex for the cushion/support/longevity properties, but also as a small lady who doesn’t want to struggle to stay on her side of the bed, or stay on her side. When he strays toward the middle, I can feel the strain in my back as I try to stay put. I’m also a restless sleeper, kicking or getting in and out of bed with insomnia. So motion transfer is a biggie.

Natural dunlop for a core seems like the best value option for price and durability; is the only advantage of talalay relative softness? I have checked out some of the recommendations. Pricewise, mattresses.net and SleepEZ aren’t much more expensive, but the trial period for HF would seem to add value above any less-expensive listings (not that I’ve run across many yet.)

I’m not set on buying every piece, all at once, from a single manufacturer – say, if I find the perfect mattress at one place, a comfort topper at another. On that note…

I was also considering the usboxspring foundation, though the Ikea Sultan Laxeby is appealing. Is there really such a huge difference in foundations that buying a mattress/foundation set is a better idea than getting either of the two I’ve listed?

To reiterate my main request, I’d appreciate some mattress suggestions similar to Habitat Furnishings in price for single-layer all-latex natural Dunlop.

Thanks for any help!

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

Lots of helpful info here, but I find myself a bit overwhelmed.

I would start with post #1 here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choice and help you with the “overwhelm”. I would make sure you read it like a good book and not 'study" it like a school textbook.

I was originally looking at the base option from Habitat Furnishings, largely because the long trial period and return policy seems pretty great, the limited selection offers simplicity, and less than 2k for a complete set (mattress, foundation, topper, mattress protector, shipping) appeals to the beau’s budget; to be most accurate, less than $500 would be closer to the beau’s ideal budget, but I just got a job, and I’m the one sleeping poorly, so I am all motivation to pay for quality.

A forum search on Habitat (you can just click this) will also bring up more information about them. There is a fair bit of misinformation on the site and there is also better value available.

Natural dunlop for a core seems like the best value option for price and durability; is the only advantage of talalay relative softness? I have checked out some of the recommendations. Pricewise, mattresses.net and SleepEZ aren’t much more expensive, but the trial period for HF would seem to add value above any less-expensive listings (not that I’ve run across many yet.)

You can read more about the different types of latex in post #6 here. Dunlop and Talalay are roughly equivalent in terms of durability. The choice between Talalay and Dunlop is really a matter of preference and both make very good choices in either a comfort layer or a support layer depending on which of the two materials someone prefers and the firmness levels of the layers that are most suitable. You can read a little more about the difference in “feel” between them (which is the main reason to choose one or the other) in post #7 here. Your own personal testing will help you decide which one you prefer.

I can’t imagine someone not knowing whether they like a mattress or know whether it’s suitable in the first 60 or 90 days and I think a one year trial period is more about marketing than anything else. Both Mattresses.net and SleepEz are less expensive and/or offer better options for equivalent mattresses although Habitat has lowered their prices so they are a little more competitive than they used to be.

I was also considering the usboxspring foundation, though the Ikea Sultan Laxeby is appealing. Is there really such a huge difference in foundations that buying a mattress/foundation set is a better idea than getting either of the two I’ve listed?

A good foundation or support system (such as a platform bed) is essential for a latex mattress and a firm non flexing slatted foundation with slats no more than 3" apart is ideal and the most common choice. If you test a mattress on a flexible foundation and it works well then I would buy the foundation I tested the mattress with but other than that I would lean towards a non flexing foundation rather than introducing a new variable such as a foundation that flexes that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress. As long as the foundation is suitable for your mattress then it really doesn’t matter which one you get and there is no real reason to buy a mattress and a foundation together if there are better foundation options available elsewhere. The Laxeby is not a “stand alone” foundation and only replaces the top slats … not the whole foundation … and it needs either a bed or a foundation that fits it to go under it. If you are seriously considering the laxeby then the adjustments would have a bigger effect on a thinner mattress and it may be a good idea to first test the mattress on the floor to see if you could benefit from the additional flex or adjustments of the Laxeby before you buy it and a bed to support it.

To reiterate my main request, I’d appreciate some mattress suggestions similar to Habitat Furnishings in price for single-layer all-latex natural Dunlop.

The members here that sell latex mattresses online are listed in post #21 here and there is a wide range of different options available.

Phoenix

[cat]

I am looking for more of a 1:1 comparison; I had read or skimmed the links you shared, I just failed to see mattresses that showed a better value for what I’m seeking. I may be looking for the wrong thing or being pigheaded about ignoring the wealth of options, but it seems like a good place to start, at least. As I said, it’s overwhelming at the moment; a firm single-layer mattress, and getting a topper as needed seems sensible to me, but I am prone to overthinking. In any case, thank you for the quick response and advice.

Here’s a quick inline version of the doc I’ve put together of some of the mattresses I’ve assessed. Now, I’m just lifting info from the websites, and I haven’t visited the local places yet, but do you know which of these, if any, are using “natural” in the sense of “up to 80% natural latex”, ie a blend with synthetic? What’s your general impression of each? I tried to upload the pdf for more depth of info, but you get the gist, I think. Small sample size because 1500 is still steeper than I’d like, but that was my hard limit. Right now, I’m leaning towards the Royal as it’s organic and local, but I’ll need to go in to get more info; same for the Austin Natural Direct, which is, mystifyingly, “natural flex” latex foam. Thanks for your hard work.

[table]
[tr]
[th]Brand[/th]
[th]Model[/th]
[th]Current Cost[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]mattresses .net[/td]
[td]6" natural Dunlop solid core (raw mattress)[/td]
[td]$750[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Austin Natural Direct[/td]
[td]9"[/td]
[td]$799[/td]
[/tr][tr]
[td]sleepworld .net[/td]
[td]Royal[/td]
[td]$999[/td]
[/tr][tr]
[td]Habitat Furnishings[/td]
[td]6"[/td]
[td]$1099[/td]
[/tr][tr]
[td]Savvy Rest (@ local store)[/td]
[td]Simplicity[/td]
[td]$1199[/td]
[/tr][tr]
[td]Rocky Mountain Mattress[/td]
[td]7" All Natural Latex Smoothtop[/td]
[td]$1500[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

6" All Natural Dunlop Latex Solid Core, All Natural and Blended Latex Cores,...

http://austinnaturalmattress.com/product/austin-natural-mattress-direct-9-latex-mattress/
http://www.sleepworld.net/our-products/organic-mattresses/
http://www.habitatfurnishings.com/latex_mattress_overall.html#6inchmatt
http://www.savvyrest.com/products/simple-fit-mattresses/simplicity
http://www.rockymountainmattress.com/natural-latex-products/7-all-natural-latex-smoothtop/

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

I am looking for more of a 1:1 comparison; I had read or skimmed the links you shared, I just failed to see mattresses that showed a better value for what I’m seeking. I may be looking for the wrong thing or being pigheaded about ignoring the wealth of options, but it seems like a good place to start, at least. As I said, it’s overwhelming at the moment; a firm single-layer mattress, and getting a topper as needed seems sensible to me, but I am prone to overthinking. In any case, thank you for the quick response and advice.

Each person has their own set of criteria that may be most important to them so “value” is always subjective depending on what is most important to each person.

If the price or the options available (both before and after purchase) are a significant part of your “personal value equation” though then several of the manufacturers listed would certainly be worth looking at. Options to customize a mattress (in terms of its construction or a side to side split for people with different needs and preferences) and/or exchange layers can also be an important consideration when you are looking at an online purchase where you can’t test the mattress in person to make sure it is suitable for your body type and sleeping style.

While price is certainly part of value … the options available are also important because when you look back on a mattress purchase you will remember more about how well you slept than how much you paid for it. Habitat uses softer than usual latex in both their comfort and support layers. The Dunlop is about 26 ILD and the comfort layer is N1 from Latex international which is very soft and isn’t as durable at this low an ILD as blended Talalay. Since price is also an important part of a purchase I would look at the following manufacturers who all sell mattresses that are similar or lower cost to the equivalent Habitat model if you compare mattresses with similar amounts of latex and a similar cover (wool quilted). Some of these offer various combinations of Latex including 100% natural Dunlop and/or 100% natural or blended Talalay. Some of these have 6" mattresses where you could add a topper and some include a top comfort layer which you can exchange which is generally a lower cost and less risky approach than buying a topper and then not being able to return it if you choose the wrong softness level.

www.mattresses.net/ (has a 6" Dunlop mattress)
https://www.sleepez.com/ (has a 6" Dunlop mattress)

Also, Brooklyn bedding or dreamfoambedding (have a 9" mattress with 100% natural Dunlop and a 3" Talalay comfort layer)

I would make sure that the mattress you listed at Austin Natural mattress is all latex because I don’t believe it is (Boyd doesn’t make any 9" all latex mattresses). For example you can see a Boyd 9" mattress here that uses 3" of what they call “engineered” latex over a polyfoam base layer but engineered latex is also polyfoam … not latex.

The Royal at Sleepworld is organic latex which is certified organic and is a more costly material than 100% natural Dunlop.

Hope this helps you with some preliminary research and it will give you some good sources to talk to.

Phoenix

[cat]

K, been awhile, but that’s because I’ve been saving up, and am easily distracted.

edit: Oh, yes, and thanks again for all the compiled info and personalized advice people receive here!

Got the beau to test out mattresses for 45 minutes months ago, and I went to refresh myself today; seems we’re definitely going to need split layers, as he prefers a much softer mattress than I do, which makes me concerned for the state of his back. Planning to try more mattresses at a quieter time so he can get his comfort, and I don’t have to worry about a lack of support wrecking him down the road.

Anyway, we tested and opined: HIM ---- ME
[li]OMI Flora Nouveau: too firm ---- comfy
[li]Pure Latex Bliss ??: more comfy ---- acceptable; almost too soft on stomach
[li]and some unknown that was: perfect ---- way too soft[/li]

The Savvy Rest Serenity then got the most attention, since we were clearly on different pages for firmness. He was pretty content with 3 layers of Dunlop in S / S / F; I was okay with S / F / F, also Dunlop. But I went back today, and they found some Talalay for me to test out – I seem to prefer the feel of a soft (20-24 ILD) Talalay, still over firm Dunlop. Medium Dunlop just seems too sinking-in, at least as a middle layer, and the medium Talalay felt more supportive, but still too soft. Do you have any layering suggestions / mattresses to try? Particularly for him, since the whole shopping experience is apparently highly stress-inducing, so I need to streamline and focus as much as possible.

I am looking at Frankensteining a mattress together with components from either/both mattresses.net or sleepez; I’m sure the info is somewhere in here, and I’m sure I’ll cobble together another spreadsheet, but if someone’s already done the legwork… I don’t have a specific height I’m aiming towards, beyond making sure to get ‘enough’ padding. I do still prefer natural latex.

Particularly, I was wondering if anyone had tried the “extra extra firm" DIY stock they’ve got at the moment – that plus a 3” N1 topper might do the trick for me, as they suggest for a medium feel… I’m just trying to figure out how I can give this a test-run.

Thanks!

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

Welcome back … it’s been a while :).

Do you have any layering suggestions / mattresses to try? Particularly for him, since the whole shopping experience is apparently highly stress-inducing, so I need to streamline and focus as much as possible.

Unfortunately, there are so many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a mattress that personal testing is the part of choosing a mattress that nobody can do for someone else. His own testing will be much more effective that anything I could suggest based on “theory at a distance” because nobody else can feel what he feels (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

It would be useful though to know the specifics of the mattress that he thought was “perfect” so he could use it as a reference point because without knowing this … unless you were to purchase that exact mattress … the time you spend testing a mattress where you can’t find out what is inside it is mostly wasted (see this article).

I am looking at Frankensteining a mattress together with components from either/both mattresses.net or sleepez; I’m sure the info is somewhere in here, and I’m sure I’ll cobble together another spreadsheet, but if someone’s already done the legwork… I don’t have a specific height I’m aiming towards, beyond making sure to get ‘enough’ padding. I do still prefer natural latex.

I would make sure you’ve read post #15 here and the links in option 3 before designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components when you haven’t tested a specific combination in person that you can use as a blueprint. It’s generally less risky to go with a “standard” component mattress that has a proven design and is close to what you have tested in person or where you have good options available after a purchase if you need to change any of the layers in your original choice. If you do decide to go in the direction of a complete DIY mattress that you design yourself then it’s important to make sure that you have realistic expectations of success and any costs involved if you make a choice that is less than ideal and need to replace any of the layers from your original choices.

The “best” approach to a DIY design (outside of a specific component mattress) is a “spirit of adventure” and a willingness to experiment through trial and error and where what you learn and the process itself is just as important as any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

Just to make sure you’ve seen it as well (because there may be some additional options since you were last here) … post #21 here includes the members of the site that sell online and many of them sell component latex mattresses with a wide range of designs, features (including side to side splits for couples with different needs and preferences), exchange or return options, and prices.

Phoenix

[cat]

Been checking the online vendors and such, the local ones, as well. Just too many options! A luxury, for sure, but a challenging one.

Sir and I tested out some clearance floor models.

The Serenity I saw last time… apparently someone played with the layers, so it was no longer the combo I considered, ie, it had no Firm in it. But the beau found S/M/M to be quite comfy, with M/S/M and S/M/F (current floor model) to be acceptable, as well. Says he feels no difference between Dunlop and Talalay. For my part, S (Talalay) /M/M felt almost comfortable, but also like it was too soft and throwing my back a curve. S/F/F is still closer to my ideal.

Since the sale Serenity was, again, lacking a single Firm layer (which I’m pretty darn sure makes me feel supported best [though I haven’t tried an Extra Firm]), the salesguy suggested/mentioned that the OMI OrganicPedic Duo was part of the floor model clearance. Sir displayed great patience and gung-ho attitude, but was hitting his tolerance for shopping / hangover post-lunch nap need was kicking in… so I was a bit rushed, but XS/F/F something was feeling pretty good to me. It had little mini layers for zoning, I guess, but I don’t think it felt all that weird. For him, XS/S/M was not right (too soft?), sss/M/M felt too firm, and S/sss/M wasn’t supportive enough. He was thinking the mini layers might have been part of what felt off to him. But he believes that we could figure out some combo to get his comfort level in that mattress. It’d be about 1300 with all the sample layers included; delivery at $70 and a split queen foundation is either $150 or $200, choice of steel or wood.

Would you consider this good value?

I definitely like the versatility of trading layers out as needed, thus the focus on those two models; possibly the illusion of customization, but it’s less intimidating than trying to get a perfect online purchase with no chance to test out a mattress first. Especially given the differences in our perceptions of comfort.

I am concerned about the bits and pieces acting as a cohesive whole; I skimmed through the threads discussing the individually-enclosed layers of latex, with no clear disadvantage, but what kind of knowledge do you have regarding those minilayers? As long as the cover’s tight enough, it’ll all shove together and play nice?

Thanks again!

Who knows what we’ll actually get, but at least I’m learning new things…

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

It had little mini layers for zoning, I guess, but I don’t think it felt all that weird.

These are half layers so that you can customize each side of the bed differently for each person. They aren’t meant to be zoned layers. This type of split configuration can be very helpful for a couple that have very different needs and preferences (see the first part of post #2 here).

It’d be about 1300 with all the sample layers included; delivery at $70 and a split queen foundation is either $150 or $200, choice of steel or wood.

The most important part of the value of a mattress is how well it matches your specific needs and preferences in terms of PPP. No matter what the cost of a mattress or the quality of the materials … if a mattress isn’t a good match for you and you don’t sleep well on it then it would have little value to you. This part of value of a mattress is something that only you can decide.

The next most important part of the value of a mattress is the type and quality of the materials. Since all the materials are 100% natural latex they are good quality so from a quality perspective the mattress has no weak links.

The next part of the value of a mattress is how it compares to your other finalists and the other mattresses you are considering or that are available to you based on the materials inside it. For a queen size 100% natural Talalay latex mattress with 9" of latex and a wool quilted cotton cover this would certainly be a good price compared to other mattresses that used similar materials if it was new. Of course it is a used floor model and most floor models don’t have a warranty so it would also depend on how you feel about having a warranty and also on the exchange options that are available to you if you sleep on it and find out you need to exchange a layer.

Finally, the “value” of a mattress depends on the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

From a “raw materials” cost point of view it would be good value for a queen but this is only part of the value of a mattress purchase so only you can decide on how important the price of the mattress compared to the other parts of your personal value equation that may be just as important or even more important than price alone.

I am concerned about the bits and pieces acting as a cohesive whole; I skimmed through the threads discussing the individually-enclosed layers of latex, with no clear disadvantage, but what kind of knowledge do you have regarding those minilayers? As long as the cover’s tight enough, it’ll all shove together and play nice?

You can read more about split layers in post #2 here and the pros and cons of covered layers in post #2 here. You will feel the difference in firmness between each side (which is of course the reason for split layers) but in a suitable cover you won’t feel the split itself.

Phoenix

[cat]

The mini layers I’m referring to are about 1/6th size of the entire bed, which is why I suggested they might be for zoning – different levels of support for your hips versus your feet, for instance. There were also the typical 1/2 sheet layers, as well, so there are interesting options.

Just a quick note before lunch!

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

I don’t see any mention about “mini layers” or zoning customizations for the on the Organicpedic Duo page so as you mentioned this may be something they’ve added to zone the mattresses at a local level along the lines of post #11 here.

While zoning can certainly be a useful options if the zoning scheme “fits” the person … if you do decide to go in this direction I’d want to make sure you have the appropriate or “official” layers for the Duo including the solid sculpted layer on top and not a more “random” selection of layers or zones that may not be the best combination for you.

Phoenix

[cat]

It does include the sculpted top (which we didn’t even test, whoops), along with every layer they have for that bed; it’s at Austin Natural Mattress, and they apparently like to have lots of options on-hand for customers to configure to their comfort. I’ll make sure to check on the standard/official layering, too. I kinda feel that with the number of layers included, we could easily swap out without the need for an ‘official’ comfort exchange. There were at least mini layers of S and F, and multiples of the split S, M, and F, but I intend to get an exact inventory before I commit to anything. The mini layers (aside from their size) seemed to match the rest of the layers, so I’d hazard they were cannibalized from some other model (poss. sold or discontinued), or just as likely, special-ordered. It was an admittedly hurried investigation, but all the layers looked to be in decent shape – no tears, stains or holes in the covers on the ones we were slinging around. The guy did say he’d hold the bed for us for a couple days while we moved money around and thought about it.

I need to hammer down a number of details, but I’ll have to ask tomorrow, as they’re closed today. But, I’ll also play around with layers some more since I’ll be solo, and try out the sculpted top, since I imagine that would make a large difference to the surface feel.

Given that it’s a showroom, I’m not too concerned over the cleanliness of this floor model… cleaning the cover shouldn’t be overly difficult; part of latex’s appeal is its relative durability, so even if it’s been ‘used’ for short segments by lots of people, I don’t think the useful life of the mattress would be much reduced, considering it looks to be reasonably cared for under the circumstances. Plus, we’d be getting the exact ‘feel’ as opposed to the mystery of a new model. It’s a strong contender.

Warranty is probably my biggest sticking point, now. OMI (Organicpedic) requires 1.5" impression, anyway, so while I’m not too worried about normal use over time, if it’s clearly some manufacturing error and I have no recourse, well, that’s my value calculation. If there is none, would it be reasonable to try and ask for a price reduction or some other freebie? He specifically mentioned that they usually do free shipping on regular sales, but as it is 1/2 off …

All my price negotiating has been in very clear-cut haggle-friendly environments, so as it’s a local shop that markets entirely to the ‘natural’ customer, I’m not sure what’s asking too little or much.

Thanks again for your feedback.

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

There were at least mini layers of S and F, and multiples of the split S, M, and F, but I intend to get an exact inventory before I commit to anything. The mini layers (aside from their size) seemed to match the rest of the layers, so I’d hazard they were cannibalized from some other model (poss. sold or discontinued), or just as likely, special-ordered. It was an admittedly hurried investigation, but all the layers looked to be in decent shape – no tears, stains or holes in the covers on the ones we were slinging around. The guy did say he’d hold the bed for us for a couple days while we moved money around and thought about it.

I would agree that making sure you know exactly what you would be receiving is important and I would also make sure that you’ve tested the specific combination of layers that you will be buying to make sure that they are a good match for you in terms of PPP because it’s unlikely that you will be able to exchange layers if some combination of the layers you purchase isn’t suitable for you.

If everything looks good in terms of PPP and you are OK without any exchanges or warranty coverage (as you mentioned latex is a very durable material) and the mattress is in good condition without any obvious issues then it would certainly be worth considering.

I don’t know the age of the mattress or the amount of use or testing that it has been subject to but most defects tend to happen early in the life of a mattress.

If there is none, would it be reasonable to try and ask for a price reduction or some other freebie? He specifically mentioned that they usually do free shipping on regular sales, but as it is 1/2 off …

It certainly can’t hurt to ask for some “extras” … until they say no to what you are asking for

Phoenix

[cat]

I wrote a big ol’ post, so of course it disappears. Anyway.

Went after work, tried out XS:S:XS/F/F, which seemed very comfortable with the tiniest bit more support to keep my hips up. The sculpted top/F/F felt very similar. All dunlop, minus the sculpted top, which ought to be talalay. Comfort and support are go.

These layers are included:
sculpted top
1/2 layer: 4 M
mini layer: 3 XS, 3 S, 3 M, 6 F

Which is why I was hoping for more feedback on the mini-layers, hah! I feel like I’m missing some, but I suppose I was just assuming more 1/2 layers. Considering it was a 3x3 stack of layers, it felt pretty secure. Do you think a split queen foundation might introduce stability issues? I’d like one for easy transport, but not at the cost of a wibbly-wobbly bed, or one with an obvious gap. I don’t know why it would cause problems, but you never know.

I’m realizing I should’ve asked more about the foundation; from the price, I believe he was selling me on one of their in-house foundations, and there’s no info on the page for either the wood or metal ones. The display was on a ~3" specialty base of some sort. As it doesn’t seem to be specifically matched to the mattress (he was talking about a week’s production time, choice of 5 1/2" or 9" height), I might have just thrown myself for a loop. Thoughts?

It’s about a year old. As suspected, there is no warranty, but they will exchange from their (limited) on-hand supply. Delivery includes setup.

I’m thinking the mattress itself is a good deal for me. I find the layering versatility reassuring, though storing them would be another dilemma. Guess the futon couch would get an immediate upgrade… Now to puzzle out the foundation.

[cat]

Just for my own reference: foundation sticky

And this is the bed I bought recently. The king version is rated up to 500 lbs. Mine has seven legs, and three cross bars.

[phoenix]

Hi Cat,

I think you have me completely confused :dry:

According to the OMI (Organicpedic) website … the Duo is “supposed” to have 5 separate layers. The bottom two layers are “split” side to side (each 30" x 80" in a queen) and the top layer is the sculpted layer. The firmness of the bottom two layers can be customized for each side.

According to what you’ve described though … the layers you are testing are completely different.

Went after work, tried out XS:S:XS/F/F, which seemed very comfortable with the tiniest bit more support to keep my hips up. The sculpted top/F/F felt very similar. All dunlop, minus the sculpted top, which ought to be talalay. Comfort and support are go.

These layers are included:
sculpted top
1/2 layer: 4 M
mini layer: 3 XS, 3 S, 3 M, 6 F

If I’m reading you right … you first tested the following layers …

Top layer: XS - S - XS
Middle layer: F - F - F
Bottom layer: F - F - F

All inside the Duo cover. This configuration had 9 separate pieces of latex inside the cover.

You then tested the following layers …

Top layer: Sculpted layer
Middle layer: F - F - F
Bottom layer: F - F - F

All inside the Duo cover. This configuration had 7 separate pieces of latex inside the cover.

The layers that you listed that are included in what you would be purchasing include the sculpted layer, all the layers that are part of the first and second configuration you tested, and then an extra XS section, two extra S sections. I’m not sure what “1/2 layer: 4 M” means. Is this 4 medium layers that fit together side by side (like the Duo is described on their website) so you would have 2 complete M layers?

I’m also assuming that you’ve confirmed that the sculpted layer is 100% natural Talalay and that all the other layers are 100% natural Dunlop and that the cover is included as well?

Is this all correct?

If I’m making the right assumptions and if you are confident about the results of your testing for PPP then it seems to me you not only have the makings of a mattress that works well for you but that you also have a few extra layers to make changes to the configuration as well if you need to (primarily replacing a firm layer with a medium layer). I would also make sure that the split in the “zoned” top layers isn’t noticeable to you through the cover (since the mattress is designed to be used with a solid top layer like the sculpted layer).

The first thing I would consider is whether you are confident that the layers you are buying allow for a configuration that works well for you in terms of PPP. Your testing seems to indicate that it does … at least for you.

The second thing I would look at is the quality of the materials. Since they are all either 100% natural Dunlop or Talalay they are all high quality materials and there would be no “weak links” in the mattress.

The third thing I would look at is how the mattress compares to any other similar mattresses that are available to you. It seems to me that a 9" queen size component mattress with some extra pieces that would allow you to make changes to the mattress at the price you are paying would be good value.

Finally I would look at the other parts of the purchase that are part of your personal value equation that may be important to you. In this case it would be the foundation and the lack of warranty or any other parts of the purchase that would be part of it’s “value” to you. From what you said you would also have the possibility of exchanging for other layers that aren’t included in your “package”. Based on my conversation with them you are also dealing with “good people”.

If all the layers (except the mediums) go across the full width of the mattress and aren’t split side to side then you wouldn’t be able to have different layers on each side of the mattress so the layers you liked would need to be a good match for him as well.

I would also want to know that the foundation was suitable for an all latex mattress. There shouldn’t be any issues with a split queen as long as it fits your bedframe.

And this is the bed I bought recently. The king version is rated up to 500 lbs. Mine has seven legs, and three cross bars.

Are the cross bars wood or metal? If they are wood you may be better off with 5 cross members. If they are metal then you would probably be fine. I can’t see for sure but it looks like it has a center support with 3 legs to the floor which is good.

If you add your weights together with the weight of the mattress and the foundation you may be getting close to the limit of your bedframe.

If my assumptions are all correct and you have taken everything I mentioned into account and are comfortable with all of them then I think it would be a “good value” purchase and would be well worth considering.

If I’ve made any mistakes in my assumptions then it would be great if you could “set me straight”

Phoenix

[cat]

You might feel confused, but you’ve understood what I said.

1/2 layer: 4 M – I intended this as the normal split layer, which, by the by, there are instead 3 M and 1 S
mini layer: 3 XS, 3 S, 3 M, 6 F – the ones 1/6th size of the bed; they are from another model.

So a total of 5.5 queen-size layers, if you include the sculpted top. The sculpted top is the only whole queen-size layer. It works for me, and the beau says it’ll work for him.

I’m concerned about a foundation, now. The in-house foundation is untreated yellow pine, has slats that are 6-7" apart, which is covered with a layer of cardboard, and a cotton cover on that. The guy says that in his 7 years there, it has not been a problem, but offered that a latex-infused coir layer might be more supportive as an addition. He made it clear that this was his gut feeling on the coir, but that he also didn’t feel it was necessary to make the foundation suitable – just giving me an on-hand option that I might find more acceptable. The wood is also naturally dried, so that’s pretty cool. I’m just leery of that wide gap and the cardboard.

There’s got to be a better split queen option without paying the brand premium for a matching OMI (Organicpedic) foundation… I suppose a roll of slats (though much lower height) might be a good solution. Or, duh, a KD base. I’m not too fixed on a high bed, which I think I mentioned. Easy transport is the motivation behind wanting a split queen.

Anyway, I also mentioned Mattress Underground, and he seemed pleased and gratified by your interactions.

Regarding the bed: it’s all steel, so yes, the cross bars are metal; each of them has a leg in the middle.

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

I’m glad we’re on the same page

It seems to me that what you are considering would be a good quality/value purchase.

There’s got to be a better split queen option without paying the brand premium for a matching OMI (Organicpedic) foundation… I suppose a roll of slats (though much lower height) might be a good solution. Or, duh, a KD base. I’m not too fixed on a high bed, which I think I mentioned. Easy transport is the motivation behind wanting a split queen.

I think that if easy transport is the main motivation for a split queen then a KD foundation would be a good option as well. I would be cautious with a foundation with wide gaps and a cardboard surface since it wouldn’t be as sturdy and would have more potential for sagging over time than a foundation with more wooden slats with smaller gaps.

Phoenix

[cat]

I kinda wish I’d made the leap and grabbed one of the metal foundations from US Boxspring while they were still available, but it would have been the height of silliness at the time. And that would have introduced its own issues.

I’m trying to decide between a wood KD foundation from same ($275; 2.75" gaps; next-day), the one from mattresses.net ($249; ~2.5" gaps, 2-3 biz days), an Ikea Laxeby ($150; ~2" gaps, [strike]pickup[/strike] – whoops, only online because it’s being ‘discontinued’, $99 shipping), or springing for an organic option ($450+S/H; 1.5" gaps; ??), since I lucked into an organic bed. I’m tempted to DIY,butthatmightbetooambitiouswithhttps://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/0https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/1https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/2https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/3

I’ve also run across another forumer’s find, the Nature’s Sleep KD (Sears, $199 pickup in 6-8 days) – just called and the CS rep said that the slats are 3" wide, making for a 2" gap. She did not know how many slats were on the roll, but also said it would vary by mattress size.

edit: Just talked to the dude at Arizona Mattress Company, and I think that’s made the decision for me. Detailed info is on the landing page for foundations – not the sized pages. Organic cotton is an option for the cover (or a matched fabric to the mattress, if you buy a set), otherwise, it comes with a more durable bamboo cover; both have quilted wool as a fire barrier. The wood is untreated, kiln-dried Canadian spruce. KD, cheap price, fast shipping to my door, and ‘clean’ materials. Getting the credit card.

COMPLETELY unrelated to foundations, yet I have already decided on a St. Dormeir for a mattress protector. Breathable, (hopefully) won’t affect the feel of the latex, washable (machine washable!) cotton and wool.

MORE EDITS: And I am a complete goober and completely forgot to put in the discount code. 3 phone calls in less than an hour, yes, hello, I am a pest. Ken said he’d fix it. :silly:

[phoenix]

Hi cat,

I’ve also run across another forumer’s find, the Nature’s Sleep KD (Sears, $199 pickup in 6-8 days) – just called and the CS rep said that the slats are 3" wide, making for a 2" gap. She did not know how many slats were on the roll, but also said it would vary by mattress size.

These are one of the options listed in the foundation post but I would be careful because unless they’ve changed it the gaps are a little more than 3". A 1 x 3 slat will generally be 2.5" wide not 3".

Reading further down your post it seems to me that you made a good choice.

COMPLETELY unrelated to foundations, yet I have already decided on a St. Dormeir for a mattress protector. Breathable, (hopefully) won’t affect the feel of the latex, washable (machine washable!) cotton and wool.

These are certainly a good quality protector and would make a good choice for those that are looking for good water resistance (not waterproof) and a more breathable protector.

MORE EDITS: And I am a complete goober and completely forgot to put in the discount code. 3 phone calls in less than an hour, yes, hello, I am a pest. Ken said he’d fix it. :silly:

Ken will “fix” almost anything

Phoenix

[cat]

So. I cannot seem to get this to come together.

I bought the mattress about 2 weeks ago, planning to have it delivered this past Wednesday (04/09) to give time to figure out a foundation.

Ordered a foundation on the 3rd (a Thursday), expecting it’d arrive before the 9th because of the 2-3 day shipping. Apparently that is 2-3 days after order fulfillment, not ordering, but okay, that’s what I get for assuming – I get info saying it should arrive by end of business Friday 04/11, so I call the mattress dudes on the 8th to ask them to delay until Saturday 04/12.

On Friday, UPS “makes an error” (unspecified, no apology or explanation ever given) and tracking states that it’ll be another business day until they try again; and the center isn’t open on Saturday or Sunday, so I can’t even go pick it up. …Okay, so I’ve got a pile of mattress components for the cats to play King of the Mountain on for a few days.

Also fun, my back has been making it very difficult to sleep lately, so I’ve been particularly looking forward to the new bed.

Fast forward to Monday. It’s supposed to rain buckets today, so I leave a note on the door saying when I’ll be home today and tomorrow, please leave this damned box if it’s not going to get soaked.

Said box is on the porch when I get home, yay! …Said box has been ripped to hell.

A snippet:

Looks like everything miraculously stayed in the box.

But to top it all off, the foundation is a weird size.
Not even the wrong size, but a Frankenstein of double/queen parts.
And, it turns out, the 59.5" width is just too short to rest on the side rails of the bed – all the weight would be on the crossbars. Looks like I’ll absolutely need 60.5" for proper support.

Sigh. Waiting to hear back.

On, the upside, I have a mattress! Maybe I’ll just go to Ikea or Home Dept and DIY this business, after all.