Non-Latex Recommendation Plz - Cooling & Zoned

Hello everyone!

TL;DR

Is the phase changing material legit for heat dissipation?

How helpful is Zoned support for a taller person?

Glacier, Helix, or DLX?

Nearing the end of my first mattress buying journey, but still can’t decide what to purchase due to research overload. I’m still not very knowledgeable though so any help is greatly appreciated!

Looking for a King mattress but don’t think latex will work due to allergies. Have been leaning towards a hybrid for the hugging feeling yet still supportive so we’re not struggling to pull over selves out.

My hips are rather bony and I prefer to sleep on my side most of the night. Therefore, I have had caving in previous mattresses which have all been innerspring. This has also caused hip and back pain. Would a zoned mattress cause any issues for me since I’m on the taller side (6’7”)?

Another main feature we’re needing is consistent cooling. I sleep semi-hot but my wife is like a coal furnace that’s never ran out of fuel. Does the phase changing material (or whatever the term is) actually provide consistent dissipation throughout a full night? Or is this just a marketing buzzword/misinformation?

I’d love to purchase American made so I’ve looked into Helix, DLX, Glacier, and some others. I can’t help but think Helix paid a ton in advertising so their prices have to be compensating for that. I also worry about if we need to return but running into any “gotcha” moments. I’m quite overwhelmed at this point and about to just close my eyes and pick, but figured I would reach out on here to see if anyone had recommendations.

Possibilities (but not limited to):
Glacier Apex/Summit
DLX Premier Hybrid
Helix Midnight Luxe (are you shocked I didn’t put them first on this list too? Lol)

Budget:
Would like to stay under $2k usd, but would pay more for actual quality that will last / provide beneficial features

Wife
Ht: 5’2”
Weight: ~120lbs
Preferred sleep position: any but rarely on stomach

Myself
Ht: 6’7”
Weight: 190lbs
Preferred sleep position: side

I’m sure I’ve left out other important factors so please let me know if anything else would help.

Thank you for reading, and hope you’re making the best you can of your day :slight_smile:

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Phase change material does make a difference with cooling. PCM is actually a wax infusion, think about it how when you put candle wax on your finger and it instantly solidifies, that’s what is happening. Where your body is exactly might get up to about the same temperature, but the heat is escaping at a faster rate than a non cooling mattress.

whether you’re able to stay under $2000 for those beds depends on what size your wanting to get. If you were to go for a queen that’s much easier but you are very tall so having those extra 4 inches that a California king could provide could be a benefit. The thing is that increases the cost on average $450

The truth is you really could close your eyes and pick any of those mattresses and they would all be great. DLX is very active here and helpful because you can change out the comfort layers. And depending on if you want your base to be more or less conforming you can choose between 12" or 14" with 12 being a little firmer and 14" being a little more conforming springs.

The glacier Apex is a good bed, it’s well liked. It’s a slow responding feel with fairly deep sinkage and a bamboo (rayon) cover for cooling.

If you were going to go for a helix, also look at the Brooklyn bedding thermobalance and thermobalance LX. The difference is the LX has a white cover and has latex in the layers for a slightly more responsive feel. I like the deep blue color of the original, and the original has a slower responsive more memory foam feel. The thing here is that the thermobalance already comes with all of Brooklyn beddings cooling features at its base price. For you to have the cooling features in the midnight luxe it’s a significant premium.

If phase change materials can cool you down, why do we need compressors, evaporators, metering devices in refrigeration? We can use such perpetual heat pumps, similar to perpetual motion machines. And we don’t need to burn fossil fuels, or dam water, etc.

So, stop believing their crap. There is a reason why mattress stores are kept at 68 to 72 degrees Fahrenheit, just to trick customers of their pseudo cooling properties.

‘No’ to zoned mattresses, unless you make your own zoned mattress.

Just invest in a modern AC unit that has variable frequency drives, also have an ERV. Old school AC units are not that comfortable, as they just blow the cool air without being comfortable. Comfort is achievable with modern HVAC systems; it is just that HVAC contractors just rip off customers by bad installs or expensive parts.

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That is true, having a high quality efficient and quiet AC system is the most important part of comfortable living. You’re right

Hey there UNT,

Welcome to the Mattress UnderGround, thank you for the question as we are happy you are here and have come to the right place.

I dont want to sound contradictory at all, but he is my take on your situation.

There is a distinct difference between something that actually provides active cooling, such as an air conditioner, or a topper with air or water being circulated and temperature controlled, and something that simply makes you feel cooler.

With things like phase change materials, the basic idea is that heat is being transferred from your body into the material, where the material absorbs that heat as it undergoes a phase change. That can make the surface feel cooler for a period of time. But it isn’t actually “cooling” in the same sense that an air conditioner is cooling a room. Eventually, that capacity is used up and the material reaches equilibrium.

There are also materials that simply come into equilibrium with the temperature of the room. If the room is 68–75 degrees and your skin is somewhere around 88–94 degrees, putting your body against a material at room temperature is obviously going to feel cool initially because of the temperature differential. You can experience the same thing on a hot summer day at the beach. If the water is 80 degrees and your body is considerably warmer, that water can feel quite cool even though 80 degrees would normally be considered warm.

So I think the compressor/evaporator argument is a little too simplistic. Nobody is really or should be claiming that a PCM mattress is an air conditioner or that it is going to continuously produce a colder environment. Each have their place and they are accomplishing different things.

An air conditioner removes heat from the room and transfers it outside sending colder air into the room. Passive mattress materials are generally transferring, absorbing, redistributing, or slowing the accumulation of heat at the body/mattress interface. The terminology gets a little loosey-goosey because “cooling” is a much better marketing buzz word than “temporarily reducing the rate at which you feel warm.” :slight_smile: :exploding_head:

And there is another piece to this that gets overlooked quite often: moisture.

Keeping someone comfortable isn’t simply a matter of making the mattress surface colder. Humidity, evaporation, airflow, and moisture management all play a role. Once moisture becomes trapped against the body or within the immediate sleep environment, perceived temperature changes considerably. This is one reason materials such as wool and horsehair can sometimes feel surprisingly cool even though neither one is producing “cold.” They are very good at managing moisture and allowing the sleep environment to breathe. Also, a topper like the Perfectly Snug Smart Topper works so well, not because it is producing cold air, but it is circulating room temperature air, which is many degrees cooler than your skin temperature, while the circulating air is reducing the moisture around you under the covers. The same principle as performance wicking clothing. The fabric wicks the moisture from your body so the perspiration droplets sit or rest on the fabric waiting for the air to evaporate it.

The mattress showroom issue is also worth putting into perspective. A cooler showroom certainly changes how a mattress feels. Viscoelastic materials in particular are temperature sensitive, so a mattress can feel considerably different at 68 degrees than it will in a warmer bedroom. It also means that someone lying on a mattress in a cool showroom isn’t necessarily experiencing the same thing they will experience after several hours of sleeping on it at home. That is simply one more reason not to put too much weight on a five-minute showroom test. An then there is the theory that mattress showrooms often do some of these things deliberately. Colder showrooms, enhanced versions of mattresses are some of the little tricks they use. Not all, but there are some out there.

As for zoning, I’m not in the “zoning is good” or “zoning is bad” camp. Zoning is simply another design variable. Much like a high loft or dual loft pillow, zoning can enhance the sleeper experience if certain areas need to be “boosted” and for others, zoning can complicate narrowing solutions when a mattress is not comfortable.

Whether zoning works well depends on the person’s height, weight, body shape, weight distribution, sleeping position, and PPPs - pressure relief, posture and alignment, and personal preferences. A zoning scheme that works beautifully for one side sleeper can be completely wrong for another. It’s not terribly different from shoes. Some people do well with more arch support, some with less. Heel-to-toe drop, cushioning, foot shape, etc. all change the equation.

And regarding the three mattresses mentioned above, I agree that all three are legitimate choices. I wouldn’t necessarily make the decision based on which one has the most impressive-sounding cooling feature or whether it happens to be zoned. They all have a thoughtfully designed build. The @DLX offers split internal comfort layers with over 8 options for firmness and feel between HD, Latex and Memory Foam options. Helix’s Elite Seriers can be augmented similarly in their king sized versions.

For a very tall side sleeper, I would also look beyond the standard queen/king/California king question. Something like Engineered Sleep or Nolah may be worth considering because they can offer some of the larger custom or less-common mattress sizes, including options such as the Nolah Alaskan and the Engineered Sleep Epic Series in Wyoming, Texas, Florida, Alaskan and Family Bed sizes.

When someone is very tall, those additional inches can be considerably more useful than another marketing claim about “cooling.”

And I would put a good pillow surprisingly high on the list as well. For a tall side sleeper, the pillow has to fill the space created by the shoulder-to-head geometry while keeping the head and neck in a reasonably neutral position. You can have a very good mattress and still have the entire setup feel wrong because the pillow isn’t appropriate. In fact, the pillow accounts for a very high percentage of the entire sleep system comfort.

The same goes for the foundation. A good mattress needs an appropriate, robust support system underneath it. The mattress, foundation, pillow, bedding, room temperature and humidity are all part of the sleep system.

So yes, cooling materials can make a difference. PCM can make a difference. Breathability and moisture management can make a difference. Zoning can make a difference.

But none of those things exist in isolation, and none of them should be confused with a plain old fashioned an air conditioner. :slight_smile: If remaining less hot on your mattress, the more natural you go, the less hot you will likely feel, but that typically commands a higher price tag. In the long term, that is not such a bad thing if you can afford the up front costs. The argument there is if your comfort preferences change, or you simply like to change it up a bit every 5 -10 years, then the mattresses you have narrowed down are right where you need to be.

Hope this adds some food for thought.

Maverick.

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Thanks, Maverick, for the recommendation, and thank you, UserNameTaken, for considering DLX.

We agree with Maverick that zoning isn’t as simple as saying it always works or doesn’t work. Everyone is different. For some people, zoning can make a mattress much more comfortable and improve alignment, while for others it can make the mattress unsleepable. There really isn’t a one size fits all solution.

One off-menu option we can offer with the Premier Hybrid is what we call a belly band. This is a traditional mattress making technique that has been used for more than 75 years and is essentially an old-school version of zoning. It adds a little extra padding through the center third of the mattress where much of the body’s weight is concentrated providing additional cushioning around the hip area.

Our belly band is a 1/2" thick strip of foam that runs the full width of the mattress from side to side and is approximately 26" from head to foot. It sits directly beneath the 3" removable comfort layer in the center third of the mattress.

It’s also easy to add or remove. You simply unzip the mattress, remove the 3" comfort layer, position the belly band in the center third, reinstall the comfort layer, and zip everything back up. If you only want the belly band on one side of the mattress, it can easily be trimmed with scissors before installation. If you decide you’d like this option, just email us after placing the order and ask us to include it.

As far as cooling goes, PCM can have a cooling effect, although how much depends partly on how much PCM is actually being used, which isn’t always easy to determine from marketing materials. Another consideration is that once you put a mattress protector and sheets over the mattress, the direct effect of the cooling material can be reduced greatly.

This is just our opinion and others may have a different take, but we’d generally rather see someone choose a mattress based primarily on comfort and support and then use a mattress protector and sheets with cooling or PCM technology if additional surface cooling is needed.

We also agree with the others that room temperature and humidity are major factors. What you eat and drink before bed can sometimes affect how warm you sleep, as can what you wear to bed. Don’t forget what’s on top of you either. A thin blanket will generally trap less heat than a thick duvet and the more insulating layers you have above you, the harder it is for body heat to escape.

Mattresses tend to get all the blame and to be fair mattress companies sometimes try to take all the credit when sleeping temperature is really multifaceted. You could have an exceptionally cool sleeping mattress and still sleep hot because of the other variables in the sleep environment.

Firmness can play a role as well. All else being equal, a softer mattress will generally sleep somewhat warmer because your body sinks farther into it and more of your body is surrounded by the mattress. A firmer mattress keeps more of your body on top of the surface, which can help with airflow and heat dissipation.

One last thought at 6’7" if you sleep on your back or stomach and tend to stretch out, the extra length of a California King could certainly be worthwhile. But if you’re primarily a side sleeper, tend to curl up somewhat, and don’t have a footboard restricting you, you may be perfectly comfortable on a standard King.

You do give up some side-to-side space when moving from a King to a California King. If that width is important to you and your wife, that’s worth considering too. More space between two sleepers can also help with sleeping temperature simply because you’re farther away from another person who is generating body heat. It’s the same reason two people will generally have an easier time staying cool on a King than when they’re sleeping close together on a Queen.

Thanks again for considering us and we’re happy to answer any questions about the Premier or the different comfort-layer options.

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