Online Mattress

First let me say that this site is a GREAT resource for those that are not that familiar with the make-up of a mattress. I bought a SF 2 years ago and now can hardly get out of bed because of the pain my back is in. I am very interested in a Latex mattress but have a question. I will be looking for a queen size mattress (I am in the 08836 area of NJ) and was curious if all mattresses in that size are split shipped or do any come as a solid mattress. My wife is very iffy about getting a mattress online and I am hoping to hit try out some places today so she and I can’t try and see how laying on a pure latex mattress feels. She is also iffy about having it shipped in 2 (or more) pieces and worries that it would be noticeable when sleeping on it. Of course we truly won’t know until we try and that’s what makes pulling the trigger even a little harder.

I have been looking deeply into SleepEZ and couldn’t tell if they ship whole or split mattress. One of their pictures shows split lower and what appears to be a one piece top

One again, thanks for this website!

I think your wife is right. It would be very unfair to use a retailer to find out what you want and then order online. There is a cost the retailer has and that should be respected. I for one absolutely disagree with others here that a mattress should not even be thought of to purchase online, makes no sense what so ever.

Hi Kevkal,

You will find both local outlets and manufacturers and online outlets and manufacturers that offer split layers with a zip cover that can be re-arranged or exchanged individually and are shipped as individual components that are put together at home as well as mattresses either with or without exchangeable layers or a zip cover that are either sold or shipped as a complete unit. All of these vary from manufacturer to manufacturer whether they are local or online. local purchases though are mostly delivered as a complete unit while online purchases can be either. Online outlets that ship as components usually have a lower shipping cost because they can use UPS rather than truck freight.

The better choices that I’m aware of in the Martinsville, Bridgewater area are in post #7 here.

I think a local purchase is always less “risky” if you have the benefit of working with an outlet that is knowledgeable and also has the quality, service, and value that can help you make your best choices. They would always be my first choice when possible. There comes a point though where if there is too much of a premium involved in a local purchase that it may also be worthwhile considering the extra risk of looking at some of the better online manufacturers. While each person has their own “value equation” as far as all the different important factors that they consider to be part of “value” … when a premium for a local purchase is in the range of about 20% or so for an “apples to apples” comparison then it may be well worthwhile including some of the better online manufacturers or outlets as a possibility in spite of the extra risk. Of course what the premium is or which direction is best will vary widely between different people.

Whether you would feel it would depend on the type of “pieces” you mean or where in the mattress they were located. If there are say 2 or 3 separate layers that are single layers on top of each other enclosed by a cover, then you wouldn’t feel any difference across the surface. If you mean a “side to side” split where each side of the mattress is made differently because of the differing weights, needs and preferences between two people … then you would feel a difference on each side but this is by design. If you used two separate 1/2 layers on top that were the same and it was in latex … then it’s not likely that anyone would feel this because latex is more “sticky” than “slidy” and the quilted cover on top also minimize any realistic possibility of feeling the split. In middle or lower layers … with solid layers over them … you certainly wouldn’t feel these at all.

They ship the individual layers (wither whole or split) that are put together at home. Any one of their layers can be ordered unsplit or split depending on the wishes of their customers. It would be a great idea to call and talk with them. You will learn more in half an hour on the phone with them (and this is true of other online manufacturers as well) than you will over several hours or days on their website.


Hi JoeyTOB,

I think that his wife was more talking about the “risk” of an online purchase than the “fairness” of the choice so while she may very well be right in the context of her “value equation” … I don’t think she was referring to “fairness”.

I think it’s probably “fair” to say that fairness itself is a two edged sword and that in these terms it is just as unfair for a local outlet to expect a customer to pay too high a premium for a local purchase when an “apples to apples” alternative is available online and the online purchase has advantages that aren’t offered by the local outlet. Wouldn’t this be more about each person’s definition of “value” (what I call their value equation) and risk tolerance than with fairness?

Value has many components including the knowledge, quality, value, and service of the local outlet that sells the mattress and there is no doubt in my mind that a local purchase from a quality outlet (as opposed to a chain store or mass market outlet that is more focused on marketing and profit margins and less committed to their customer’s long term needs, preferences, and satisfaction) is less risky because you can actually test the mattress with the guidance of an “expert” rather than going by “theory”. There comes a point though where the extra risk of an online purchase may be justified and this point and the reasons for it may be different for different people. Local outlets need to compete in terms of “value” with their peers and alternative sources wherever they may be. If the benefits of local value (as defined by the customer) are not available without a substantial premium that may be higher than the customer is willing to pay for the reduced risk … then an online purchase seems to me to make sense.

Value of course includes more than just price because the value of any product includes many other factors including the suitability of a choice that can actually be tested and the after sales service and options that are available from the local outlet. If the price premium for these benefits are too high though … then the local outlet wouldn’t be competitive and needs to find a way to either choose better value products to include on their floor or change their business plan in ways that make them more competitive. There are hundreds of local outlets that are competitive in every way with online outlets in “value” terms and who do very well but there are also many who aren’t and an educated consumer will have the tools to know the difference.

In the end … if a customer walks into a store and is seriously looking for a mattress … then that outlet has the chance to make a sale by educating them about their products and also the benefits of buying from that specific outlet. This includes the knowledge and services available there that lowers the risk over an online purchase. Whether they gain or lose that customer will depend on how competitive they are by the definition of each customer. They may gain some and lose some … but this also works the other way around. If they consistently lose customers to other outlets … regardless of whether they are bricks and mortar or online … then IMO it’s time to consider the real value they are offering in the eyes of their potential customers in terms of either their products, service, or value.

Each person will decide for themselves what makes up their own “value equation” and as I mentioned fairness works two ways and has little to do with it. The benefits and disadvantages of buying locally and online are both real but different and they will always compete with each other it today’s world. IMO … the better outlets of each type will always do well because there will always be people with different needs, preferences, risk tolerance, and value equations that more closely match one over the other.


As you know from our conversation, I think using a retailer is not a matter of value it is a matter ethics. Most are good people just trying to make a fair living and are investing in store front… there is no value to our industry for undercutting via the internet. Its easy and no cost to just undersell online and ultimately it is why so many local retailers struggle and the larger companies do well. Ultimately this will only hurt everyone except the big guys. Support your local retaillers who have invested so much in your communities and quit this crazy online mattress shopping. You spend 1/3 of your life in bed make it an important decision.

Hi joeyTOB,

As you also know … we disagree on this. I personally believe that a local outlet can offer value that an online outlet can’t and the opposite is true as well. For any of us to “legislate ethics” and tell someone else that what they believe is “wrong” when it comes to buying a mattress just doesn’t make sense to me. If a customer walks through your front door and tests mattresses and then buys from somewhere else …regardless of where that is … then that only means that for some reason the customer didn’t recognize the value you were providing or that it didn’t fit what they were looking for. You have the competitive chance to make the sale and nobody makes a sale 100% of the time for many reasons. Price is only part of the reasons that people buy what and where they do. If for whatever reason a mattress that you sell isn’t “in the range” of what a customer is looking for … price and otherwise … then there is little power to an argument that they should buy from you or anyone for ethical reasons if the customer doesn’t share your beliefs or opinions.

Again IMO … in today’s world … online outlets and bricks and mortar outlets (and some which have both) are one of the great choices that people have and each has it’s own strengths and weaknesses in terms of value.

There are good people in the online manufacturers and outlets as well as the bricks and mortar outlets who have also invested their money and time in their business (and I have been fortunate to get to know many in each group) who provide exceptional quality and service although each is different. The better online outlets don’t “undercut” … they price their products according to their cost of doing business and the costs of the business and services they offer. If they have lower prices … it can help to make up for their inherent weaknesses. They accept that for many reasons they won’t attract certain customers just like bricks and mortar outlets won’t attract certain customers for many reasons but their choice of business models is not a reflection of integrity or ethics. They understand just as well as a local outlet that a race to the bottom also provide them with the income that they need to stay in business so they don’t consider the people who sell “junk” at ridiculous prices their real competition. They understand that local or online … service has value and that people are willing to pay for it … within reason.

I admire the risks that small business people take and the entrepreneurial spirit that they have … but investment shouldn’t be any guarantee of success without a business plan, products, and services that are attractive to consumers against all “legal” competition. The ability to adapt and change with the times is part of the evolution of new technology and ideas. Competition of all types is healthy IMO and results in more opportunity and better value in all areas of an industry. This applies to manufacturers, retailers, and consumers alike.

There are many small, ethical, family owned online outlets that do an amazing job and are growing their business despite and in some cases because of the “competition” and while I believe that “going local” should always be a first priority (because in most cases it’s a matter of self interest) … if local value (as defined by the person buying a mattress) is not as good as other options and an online outlet is a better “fit” for their value equation … then who’s to say that they are wrong. Even if they are … and they buy from an outlet for the sake of “cheap” alone and end up making mistakes that cost them in terms of their sleep or health (because “cheap” didn’t come with the service, knowledge, and integrity that would lead to their best choices) … then shouldn’t that be a learning process for the consumer? In cases like this … they will quickly learn that “cheap” can be “expensive” in more ways than they realized and you will probably have a local customer for life … and they will share their thoughts with others they care about so that they don’t make the same “mistake”.

While I think that most people (hopefully) realize the importance of the right mattress … this doesn’t mean that how they buy it is a form of minimizing it’s importance.

As you also realize from our conversation … there are many things we agree on and a few that we don’t. I hope though that you will continue to post your thoughts on the forum as your time, circumstances, and interest permit because IMO all contributions and points of view have value and the more different perspectives that people are exposed to … the more that everyone (including me) can continue their learning curve and the more the forum members have the opportunity to read many points of view that will help them realize and make up their own minds about what is important to them.

Thanks again for your thoughts :slight_smile:


If you buy online you take advantage of possible a lower prices since an online retailer is a lower investment however you take the risk of a bad product a bad choice or a bad company you are dealing with. If you can live with that great.

Brick and mortar you may pay a little more but you get the service, feel what you are buying, product configured the way you want it. No doubt huge advantage. If someone goes to a retailler and take advantages of all that then buys online they should either come in and pay the retailler for their time or live with the fact they are not ethical. Phoenix you should not encourage this in anyway or you will be encouraging people to put small retailler out of business. The only the big guys win.

Wow, didn’t mean to stir up a touchy subject. I will say this however, I bought a Stearns & Foster 2-3 years ago and it was over 2K and now I feel crippled trying to get out of bed. When they were throwing their sales pitch, the warranty was thrown out there. Well, now that the time has come, trying to collect on the warranty a feel like a mouse in a maze trying to find the cheese at the end. So please explain to me what the local retailer has done for me? I understand that their job is to put dinner on the table for their families and at the same time…that is also my job.

In response to paying the local shop for their time, would one also have to pay for their time if I still bought locally but from a different shop because shop 2 was a better value? For where I live I don’t believe their is anyone who sells pure latex mattress and if they do, as Phoenix mentions, there is no value on locally because of the price difference. So at what point do I support the local shop over supporting my family?

you didnt stir up a sore subject, phoenix and I had a conversation of about an hour the other night we agree on 90% of things the part I dont agree on is buying a mattress online. Its something regardless of what it is made of you need to lay on feel it… for you who has had such a bad experiance it is wort a trip to visit someone and I would say yes even if you had to hop on a plane. Where you spend 1/3 of your life should not be decided on price or online it makes no sense. You are welcome to google my company the organic bedroom and call me if you need any advice. However Phoenix and I do agree on a lot of other items however this is just one of them we do not and never will. Price should not be the factor when deciding where you spend a 1/3 of your life. Makes no sense what so ever. Would you buy your house online never actually visiting it? And on the other item if there was a shop in town and it was a couple of hundred bucks more its worth it as that shop will be there when you need them in the future. Best of luck on your search.

Just wanted to say this is a completely fascinating conversation for me since my husband and I own and operate our own small business doing ecommerce software development. In other words - we help businesses operate and make sales on the internet. Many people think this is easier and less costly, but often the devil is in the details.

There are many many costs of doing business online that a brick and mortar store doesn’t have to deal with. Secure servers, technical expertise, online marketing strategies, and PCI compliance just to name a few. Many things a small business may not understand or know how to set up. These are just technical examples that an online retailer must handle and many have other internal issues that may incur extra costs depending on what they sell like food services, digital content management, or membership services.

This is just a cost of doing business anywhere. I’ve been on sales calls that last hours and have nothing to show for that time. I’ve spent my knowledge and technical expertise to assist others without compensation and I’ve also learned from salespeople that their product will not work for me - for whatever reason - and they’ve made no sale. Online retailers often face the same problems as the brick and mortar retailers only they’ve got to compete on a world wide scale with different problems.

I’ve personally worked with many small businesses where a presence on the internet assisted and grew their businesses so I disagree with [quote]
only the big guys win
[/quote] online. There are many ways for a small business to make money and sales online. It isn’t easy - just like running a brick and mortar store isn’t easy. The issues are different and need different skills to manage but just like running your own business it can be very rewarding for most any small business.

My husband and I have been running our own business online for over 13 years now and we started in our basement (literally). We now have 3 employees and rent a small office space. It’s been hard but rewarding just like any self-owned business. The issues are vastly different between an online store and a brick-n- mortar store but they both can flourish for a small (or large) business owner.

Great Post and I could not agree with you more. My only point was it is unfair to use a brick and morter retailer and what they invested so someone could have the benefit of touching feeling trying then go buy online becouse it is a few dollars less. Sound like you and your husband have your act togethor and have built a great business.

I will however state without a concern of stepping on Toes a mattress is one of those items that should not be purhased until you touch and feel it in a store as well as look in the eye the person who is going to be responsible for taking care of you after the sale. Again this is where you will be spending 1/3 of you life,

Yes, but different people have different perceptions of ‘fair’ and I think this is where there will be disagreement. For a good example, I’m a knitter and I LOVE to support my local yarn store but I cannot afford to shop there for ALL my yarn. When I knit with a yarn that I know never goes on sale or lowers in price, I buy it there exclusively. They have my support but within my own personal ‘ethics’ and what I feel is fair.

I respect your view and agree with it somewhat. I disagree that I’m obligated to buy something from anyone that offered sales, service or in-house testing. When shopping for my mattress I did do testing locally and found that within my values and needs were better met with purchasing online. I found for my personal needs, an online purchase was better for me. This judgement wasn’t exclusively based on price, but it was PART of the equation.

I’ve purchased previous mattresses from some ‘big box’ mattress superstores from salespeople that looked me in the eye and lied (or bent the truth to it’s maximum capacity) to me. So, to me, as somebody who’s been repeatedly burned by those I’m relying on for a crumb of truth, the need to be ‘personally helped’ is a bit overrated. Please understand that I’m talking about personal experiences with stores that are really bad places to purchase (well anything) but especially a mattress.

I know there are many good retailers out there both online and brick and mortar. I’m sure you work hard to earn a customers trust and give them your insight to make a better purchase. However, perception is everything in business and loss of a customer for ‘a few dollars’ most likely means the customer wasn’t your target customer anyways.

I guess my point is that ‘fairness’ or ‘ethical’ is something that is going to be fluid from person to person and is something that will be different from person to person depending on what is important in their own personal lives. :slight_smile:

And so we disagree not the end of the world but glad there is a forum we can both express our opinions. I personally do not use people and in my humble opinion if you test a brick and morter then buy online that is what it is. I respect your opinion. I also would nevet blindly purchase where I am going to be spending 1/3 of my life, that is why the % of mattresses purchased in store vs online is in the high 90’s. It is not even remotely close.

May I see your source for this number?

So, when you test drive a car you purchase it then and there at that dealership? You don’t shop around at all? Shopping around and learning about the competition is how people learn about most products, we are not all fully informed of everything we purchase before we purchase it. I understand you are trying to underscore the value of ‘trying something out in person’ but many people try before they buy and most don’t feel that they are “using” people. This is how people compare and contrast products.

Indeed. I’m glad I have the options and ability to learn about and purchase products in the vast myriad of different ways possible. I would recommend supporting local businesses but not because customers feel obligated. They should purchase because buying local has many benefits that might be part of the customers ‘value equation’ (as Phoenix puts it). :slight_smile:

Having someone educate you work with you have a sincere interest in your well being is the Value equation and is priceless. I do feel bad that you box us into car salepeople sterotype is the problem with our business and frankly a stereotype earned. When people come to my store they will be treated with respect… as far as the car dealer would go I would also give them the respect, should he spend the time with me and find me what I need and if I am satisfied with everything there is absolutely no reason to shop around, its called earning business not buying it.

Best of luck to your business and have a blessed day.

There is no harm in searching online for a mattress. Even if you do not want to buy online you can get an overview of the price range. You will also find a large range of good variety mattresses online. As you mentioned about your back pain, I was also suffering from the same problem few months ago. The problem was mainly due to bad shape of my bed mattress then someone suggested me to use a mattress protector and I bought one. I felt a great relax in my back and now I am completely free from the back pain problem, you can give it a try.

Hi JoeyTOB and all,

This has been an interesting conversation :slight_smile:

I think that there are good and bad online outlets and good and bad local retailers and if you deal with the “bad” ones … it can be risky no matter what type they may be. As Coventry also pointed out … there are costs involved with an online business that are unique to that type of business and the cost of a mattress purchase from an online outlet also includes shipping costs that are more than a local purchase. I think that part of the goal of research though is to find the better outlets and as much as possible to compare apples to apples (good online to good local and vice versa) rather than using examples of the worst of either group which I think we probably all agree should be avoided.

With a better online outlet … the risks you are talking about often don’t exist to the same degree (although they certainly still exist) because they usually offer some kind of exchange or refund so in most cases you actually do get to test the mattress in your own bedroom over a longer time frame. If it doesn’t work … there is usually a comfort exchange or layer exchange or refund of some type. If this isn’t the case … then the risk would be higher and for most people would need to be offset by some other benefit connected with the purchase to be worthwhile. Returns or layer exchanges can involve some costs of course but the costs are often less than a comfort exchange in a retail outlet.

I think if you read most of my posts (for example post #15 here among many) you will see that I recommend that people first look locally whenever possible before they look online and there are more members of this site that sell only locally than there are online members (and there are more that will be added in the coming months). What I encourage is that people have the tools and information they need to decide what value means to them without anyone else defining it for them. I think most people realize that a local purchase is in their own “enlightened self interest” … until the “apples to apples” premium of a local purchase is too high. Most local outlets realize this as well and this is why so many of them compete so well both with other local outlets and online outlets as well. They have “value” that can’t be duplicated with an online outlet which is why they are growing in spite of the online competition. Researching both can provide a reference point which can be valuable in both directions.

I think your focus on the “ethics” of an online purchase is misplaced. As has already been mentioned …online sales have advantages and disadvantages and are part of the world we live in. If local retailer focus on their strengths and online outlets do the same … then both can offer quality, service, and value that will fit different people.

While price may be the only advantage of the worst of the online outlets (and in many cases wouldn’t be an apples to apples comparison) … you may be missing the bigger picture if you are looking at or comparing the better online outlets which offer great service as well. Many of them even have a bricks and mortar outlet and added an online service as a way to grow their business. The online outlets that sell “cheap junk” at the lowest prices they can will come and go and very few consumers that are “educated” about what makes a good mattress will buy from them anyway. If they do they will usually end up paying a bigger price than they realized. Their equivalent is some of the local “liquidation outlets” that in many cases sell “cheap junk” or used mattresses at ridiculous prices to unwary consumers. These are the types of worse outlets that “should” be avoided as a matter of self interest regardless of how they sell mattresses. Value is not the same as price and the components of good value of which price is one are part of the better online outlets as much as they are in local outlets.

While price should not be the only factor … IMO it is also unrealistic to think that price is not one of the important factors in any major purchase. It is part of risk vs reward and is part of what every person includes in their decisions and balances against all the other competing variables that are part of how they define “value”. None of this is black and white and each person has the freedom to decide for themselves what is best for them. If what is important to them is different from someone else … this is just evidence of how different people can be and not about whether they are more or less ethical. I could present an “ethical” argument for example about a profit margin over some arbitrary amount and say that anyone who sold for more than this wasn’t ethical and was gouging customers. This wouldn’t make me right even though it may be an attractive argument that was supported by many people. Like a consumer’s choice of outlet … this would be the personal decision of a business owner rather than an ethical one and they would have to live with the results of their decision and its effect on their business once people realized that they could buy the same products from an outlet with the same or better service for a substantially better price.

Again … I think you may be overestimating how much this happens for “a few dollars” or using a “few dollars” example when a “many dollars” example would be more appropriate. It will happen for a significant difference that is more than just a few dollars but I doubt a few dollars will sway anyone’s decision and if it does there are likely other reasons that aren’t being disclosed.

I think it’s clear that this is a strongly held opinion but don’t forget that an online purchase which offers some type of comfort exchange, refund, or layer exchange for a reasonable price can usually be “tested” in actual use which is just as effective as store testing. They also have the additional expense of shipping the mattress which is reflected in the price which is more than the delivery charges for a local outlet. Instead of looking someone in the eye … you have their reputation and conversations with them to judge their integrity and service. We have all been looked in the eye and lied to. If an online manufacturer has been in business for a long time, has a good reputation, isn’t “hidden” behind the internet, and spends several hours with you on the phone and provides great service and guidance … what is really the difference? Under these circumstances … the argument falls apart and becomes a matter of personal choice not a matter of arbitrary “better or worse” or “should or shouldn’t” … especially if these are defined by someone else. Both types of better outlets … local or online … can and do offer great after sale service and like price this can be part of the value of making a purchase wherever you do.

I don’t understand why you are labeling people who buy a mattress online as “using” people if they do some testing at local outlets. In many cases local testing is part of gathering the information they need to decide where to buy in the first place. Testing mattress in places you don’t make a purchase is part of almost every buying process and is just part of market competition and consumer research. If I had a local outlet I would be grateful for anyone who walked through my front door and gave me a chance to earn their business and I would put all my efforts into finding ways to increase the odds that they bought from me regardless of any competition. If I wasn’t making a high enough percentage of sales from the traffic in the store … I would ask myself what I could improve in terms of either product selection, service offered, or even choice of suppliers and cost of my product if it became clear that what I was carrying was out of a competitive range for too many people that were in my “targeted market segment”. If I was making enough sales … then I would accept the walk in traffic that didn’t buy from me for any reason as being part of doing business and perhaps as a thermometer showing possible ways I could improve.

I think we both agree with this and most others probably would as well. Where we differ is in the opinion that this can only happen with a local outlet or with the difference between “always” vs “when”.


Again Phoenix I like you and agree with some of what you say. The problem I have is you are encouraging the used car sales tactics and I am sorry my business is built on service and the best products to be found. If someone is solely looking on price they should never walk in my door and I assure you I am making less as a percentage as most online “discounters” So visit the organic bedroom if you want good service on great prices, if you want it to be a used car shopping experiance there is a mattress firm block away and a warehouse type place 1 mile away. I think the big area we disagree on is as much as you label things value its price nothing more and that is not the number 1 reason people should buy something. I know I personally am not a fan of tempurpedic but I saw a post where corsicana was recommended to someone who was interested in one. Corsicana is not even remotely made as well as a tempurpedic in fact corsicana makes mattress firms brand Hampton and Roads products, Just becouse something is expensive does not mean someone is overpricing there stufff or taking advantage of people. I would rather pay $1,000 too much for a product I like vs. $1 too little for one I dont. That is value, not saving 5% which by the way if these preferred retailers have the extra 5% margin plus $50 by your definition arent then already taking advantage of everyone? This will be my last spill on this subject and I will bow out and let you guys get the last word on this, I appreciate the venue to disagree with you. Try it before you buy it and don’t underspend your mattress and your health are just too important.

It sounds like you know your target client very well. Your target client isn’t somebody who will shop around and compare other mattresses. They know what they want and are willing to spend any amount to get what they want. There are some who are like this and will walk into your store and purchase from you. Unfortunately, not everyone is in that same position. Here’s a quote from Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austin that I feel works here - “You do not make allowance enough for difference of situation and temper.”.

I agree with you that many people should purchase (if they can) from a local business, there are many positives that come with this. Some people just don’t have this option for whatever reason. I personally didn’t have that option all the choices in my general vicinity where mass market mattress discounters. I disagree that anyone should feel “obligated” to purchase locally because people place different values on different things than I do.

In closing you sound like a really hard working, reputable, and decent mattress manufacturer. We may not see eye to eye, but not everyone will. I hope your business works for you and you continue to find your target market. :slight_smile:

Hi jopeyTOB,

Unfortunately your arguments are beginning to strain credibility and when you post things that are factually incorrect, out of context, deliberately distorted, contain misleading implications, or use “strawman” arguments to reinforce your own point of view … it does little to educate anyone or bring value to the table of what could be a very interesting discussion. This is the approach of the types of outlets that want their customers to buy from them at all costs and at the expense of any opposing information or points of view.

Some examples …

Your business is built on the best products you have been able to find and are selected and priced based on your own knowledge, values, business decisions, and target market. To imply that any other approach is like a “used car salesman” or that you are able to define “best” for someone else is somewhat self serving rather than accurate. In the end … each consumer decides what is best for them. If there are enough people who share your values in the face of competing opinions and business models … you will do well. If there aren’t you won’t … it’s as simple as that.

You are characterizing price as being the sole reason that someone wouldn’t buy from you and saying that if they don’t share your values or aren’t willing to buy what you sell at any cost in the face of “apples to apples” comparisons that they are somehow “bad” or “price shopping” rather than “value shopping”. This makes no sense. It’s not as black and white as “either buy from me and pay what I charge or buy some cheap junk”. Giving consumers meaningful ways to compare products and outlets that have similar value is the topic of this discussion … not comparing the worst outlets with the best ones. Most people already know the difference between black and white. This discussion is talking about the many shades of grey and giving people the means to know which shade they are closest to. These types of “either me or someone like me or you are buying junk or shopping at a sleazy outlet” comments doesn’t do anyone any favors. Why not make comparisons between “good and good” instead of “good and bad” in order to bolster an argumentbased on an extreme position. We can all tell the difference between good and bad. It’s the differences between the varieties of good and good that are more helpful. If you label all manufactures or outlets that sell online as “bad” then there is no more discussion and you are locked into the most extreme position possible.

This may be your belief and it may even be true for some people but it certainly isn’t mine. To imply that this is the basis for any disagreement we have when it’s not or to try to “fit” or characterize or define my beliefs when what you are saying contradicts everything I have said or that we talked about implies some type of agenda or “need” to be right in the face of every opposing opinion. Why not respond to what I actually say, believe, and write rather than a misrepresentation of what I am saying in order to re-inforce your arguments. This is not the approach of a reasoned discussion or someone who actually listens to what is being said to them.

Implying that I made an “apples to apples” comparison between a Corsicana mattress and a Temperpedic is ridiculous and I would ask you to link the post so that the context that you are misrepresenting is clear. I would compare some Corsicana models to say a Serta iComfort because they use similar materials and there would be a closer value comparison if the layering of each was known but this is just “inaccurate reporting” on your part. You are actually “using” an area where we agree (Corsicana is not in the same quality range as a Tempurpedic) and somehow implying that I believe that they are the same quality for some unknown reason. To me these kind of statements are bizarre. Misrepresenting facts or misleading statements is something that is more common in the types of outlets that both of us agree are among the “worst” of the industry. Why use these types of tactics in our discussions?

If you would gladly pay an extra $1000 (or any amount) for a mattress when other similar choices are available … then the reasons that you would do this mean that you haven’t paid too much at all. You have made a purchase according to your personal “value equation” which means it was not too much at all. Now to imply that others should do the same thing based on your beliefs is naive. Some may share your value equation and some may not but framing it as an issue of “health” when both ways they are buying a similar mattress implies that unless they buy from you or an outlet like you, they will end up buying something that can’t possibly be as “healthy”. This is an example of a “strawman” argument that I was referring to. If the business members here believe that a potential increase in business justifies providing a referral fee or a consumer discount means that their original business plan or profit margins were somehow taking advantage advantage of their customers is also ridiculous and as a businessman you would certainly know the economics of this.

I realize that these replies are very direct but you are engaging in tactics and arguments that allow no room for the value of competing ideas and opinions and when you do this you are emulating the tactics of the worst of the industry who also tries to “define” ideas of “best and worst” by ignoring or misrepresenting any evidence that is contrary to their self interest.

If you do decide to reply any further … I would encourage you to reply to what is actually being said and use less “emotional” arguments that are based more in substance and fact rather than using “blanket statements”, or misrepresentations that serve your self interest more than they acknowledge and discuss what is actually being said.

I respect your point of view … but this doesn’t mean that it “should” be held by anyone else just because you say so or justifies the kind of misrepresentations you are making.