Read until my eyes are sore, I really need help.

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

I am a long time lurker but first time poster. I will try and make it quick and easy. I used to love softer beds when I was younger but need a firmer mattress now that I am in my 30’s. I have had lower back surgery, i just tore my rotator cuff and was in an accident recently that has caused upper back pain.

Wife and I both have junk in trunk, I am 5’ 11" and 200lbs. I am in pretty good shape, I used to run a lot, play hockey, football etc so my hamstrings are huge along with my butt for a guy. If I wore spandex you would think I was a chick from behind. I have been told by many specialists that I suffer from extreme interior pelvic tilt. When I wake up my hamstrings are always sore/cramped along with my lower back and between my shoulder blades. The wife is 5 months pregnant and she can sleep much better than myself. I used to run 5 miles a day and I am down to maybe 1 or 2 because I just dont feel like I have the energy anymore. Always tired/sore and feel un-rested. We both are mainly back sleepers but sometimes lay on our stomach/side. I go to bed on my back and usually wake up on my back. Wife usually wakes up on her back.

Mattresses in house currently.

Queen - Sealy PosturePedic Soft - Worthless for myself or wife, basically new but just too soft. (Guest Bedroom)
Queen- Comfort Rest Lady American Interlude - (Master Bedroom)
Futon - http://www.treeformsfurniture.com/futons.html (Living Room)

The Futon is the only thing that I can sleep on.

I am not opposed to spending upwards of $5000 to get a good nights rest. I have tried to test a few mattresses and have found my body likes the Temperpedic Contour Supreme. We are tempted to buy the adjustable frame and two twin XL mattresses. The chemical process to make the foam makes the wife un-easy and this is around $6800, a little above our price point. I was thinking the adjustable frame would help my hamstring issue by raising the foot portion.

The other mattress we both liked by testing was the Beautyrest Recharge Cypress Firm.

The wife wants natural Latex as she doesn’t want chemical made beds. We both like firmer based mattresses as we both find our butt portion sinking in.

I am located in Chugiak Alaska and I am willing to go to Anchorage, or Wasilla Alaska to find a bed. We will be driving out to Wasilla today to try and test some other beds as I cant take another sleepless night…
Thanks!

2

Hi alaska_guy,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! from “up north” :slight_smile:

Based on your questions I’m guessing that you haven’t read the mattress shopping tutorial here which is the first place I would start your research and includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones (such as all the major brands … see the guidelines here).

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists.

I don’t make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or materials because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I can certainly help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you may be considering, act as a fact check, answer any specific questions you may have along the way that I am able to help with, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, material, or manufacturer/retailer is the best match for you based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Once you get to step 3 in the tutorial … then the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Anchorage area (subject to the quality/value guidelines I linked) are listed in post #7 here.

Your budget is certainly much more than you would need to buy a great quality/value mattress (see this article)

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding … and of course any comments or questions that you may have along the way that I can help with that aren’t covered in the tutorial.

Phoenix

3

Thanks pheonix. I guess I could/should? have been more detailed… I did go through the tutorial, I have checked out so many different beds, but depending how a company layers a bed with foam or latex can really change the way it feels.

My body seems to love the Temperpedic Cloud Series in the medium soft along with the other Temperpedic I mentioned earlier… However, I kept leaning towards the inner coil beds as I like how they support/feel.

We decided to go with a Lady Americana Elite Sedona Firm Mattress.

10 year warranty (7 day trail for a full refund)
Individual Wrapped Coils
Foam Encased sides in polyfoam, 70# foam
Top layer is super soft foam.
Bamboo sheets
Sleep Tite Mattress Protector (15 year warranty) This must be purchased to get the 10 year warranty on the bed.
I also purchased a memory foam mattress topper that is gel infused as it made a night/day difference on this particular bed for my shoulder blades and lower back.

Hopefully I made the right choice, and if not I get 7 days to return/exchange for a different mattress…

I really want to like the Latex beds, but I have tried a bunch and my body just does not like the Latex. Doesn’t support me correctly. My injuries are pretty bad so within 1-2 minutes I can feel weather a bed makes my injuries worse or better. Blessing/Curse. Helps me with the PPP factor when laying on beds, that’s for sure…

4

Hi alaska_guy,

Whenever members ask about buying a major brand mattress or a mattress where they don’t know the type and quality/density and durability of all the materials inside it I normally assume that they haven’t read the tutorial since it warns so explicitly against considering them for a purchase.

[quote]10 year warranty (7 day trail for a full refund)
Individual Wrapped Coils
Foam Encased sides in polyfoam, 70# foam
Top layer is super soft foam.
Bamboo sheets
Sleep Tite Mattress Protector (15 year warranty) This must be purchased to get the 10 year warranty on the bed.
I also purchased a memory foam mattress topper that is gel infused as it made a night/day difference on this particular bed for my shoulder blades and lower back.[/quote]

If you are confident that the mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (or it has good exchange/return options if you aren’t), and you have confirmed the quality/density of all the foam materials in the mattress, and it also compares well to the other finalists you were considering in terms of all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you, then it would certainly make a good choice.

Did you find out all the information listed here to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or “weak links” in the mattress before you purchased it?

Phoenix

5

1" Eco Flex
713 indivdually encased 7" unitized comfort coils
dura guard edge 1" eco flex
1.5" high density firm eco flex
.75 eco flex, 1" eco flex
eco loft inherint fire barrier

Unless I did my math wrong, about 3.25" of flex with a 1" eco flex top. If my memory serves me correctly you normally say 4" is ideal./better.

Here is the company I purchased from,
http://www.mattressranch.com/our-mattresses

It’s a silver model mattress.

It was hard for me to get the foam density rating as they did not know off hand, though the same applied to the temperpedic brand models I was asking about. Seems some companies don’t divulge that information as freely as others.

Warranty is through Sound Sleep Products Inc.

6

Hi alaska_guy,

There is no “ideal” thickness of the materials or components in a mattress or a mattress “as a whole”. The thickness and firmness of the foam layers in a mattress are just one of the factors that can affect “comfort” and PPP and that makes some mattresses suitable for some people and not for others. It’s the type and quality/density of the layers that are important to know to assess the durability and useful life of a mattress or whether it has any weak links in its design.

Having said that … if the total thickness of LOWER QUALITY AND LESS DURABLE materials in the upper layers of a mattress are more than “about an inch or so” then it could have a significant effect on the durability and useful life of the mattress because once you reach about 2" or more of lower quality/density materials (especially in the upper layers of a mattress) it could be a weak link in the mattress.

[quote]1" Eco Flex
713 indivdually encased 7" unitized comfort coils
dura guard edge 1" eco flex
1.5" high density firm eco flex
.75 eco flex, 1" eco flex
eco loft inherint fire barrier[/quote]

Unfortunately this description doesn’t contain any useful or meaningful information about the quality/density and durability of the foam materials inside the mattress.

If these are all the layers in the mattress and the thickness of all the components adds up to the thickness of the mattress then there would be a total of 5.25" of polyfoam in this mattress (with 4.25" of it being in the most important upper layers). If more than about 1" or so of the upper foam layers are less than 1.8 lb density (which is quite likely) then it could be a weak link in the mattress which would lead to premature foam softening and breakdown of the foam layers. This in turn would lead to the loss of the comfort and support of the mattress and the need to replace the mattress much too quickly relative to the price you paid and unfortunately the loss of comfort/support isn’t considered to be a defect and isn’t covered by mattress warranties.

If you can find out the information you need to know about the density of all the foam layers (they should be willing to call the factory and find out for you) and list them on the forum from top to bottom and you have confirmed that there are no missing layers or components in the description by making sure that they add up to the thickness of the mattress then I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials and the mattress as a whole and let you know whether there are any obvious weak links in the mattress.

If a retailer either can’t or won’t find out and tell you the information you need to make an informed choice and to confirm there are no weak links in the mattress then I would never consider it for a purchase because buying a mattress without knowing all the information listed in this article so you can make sure there are no weak links in the mattress would be much too risky and is the most common reason for buyers remorse much too soon after a purchase.

Phoenix

7

So your recommending against temperpedic brand beds too? They will not divulge their density rate either. I understand that being the most informed will obviously help my purchase decision. However, some companies seem to hold that info close to their chest as they consider it “proprietary” information on how they make their beds.

The bed was ok last night but the memory foam topper is laying flat in another room. Manufacturer recommends 48 hours before use. My lower back feels pretty good today, but my shoulders are still sore. I know it usually takes a few days to get adjusted to a new bed so I will wait and see and go from there.

The only other bed that fit me/felt good was the temperpedic brand. I have looked at Beauty Rests, Serta, Sealy, Temperpedic, Lady Americana etc. i was 50/50 on a Serta bed but again the bed I have now felt better so I went with that.

Almost all the other brands I listed above all said they would have to contact their manufacturer in order to get foam density specs etc and haven’t gotten back to me after a week… I emailed Lady Americana directly as well as Sleep Products Inc.

I just tried to call the manufacturer and I get that the phone has been disconnected or no longer in service… Makes me want to return my mattress already. That’s never a good sign.

Ok, I found out that Sound Sleep Products Inc actually make the mattress I purchased. The lady said she works in the warranty claim department and not on the technical specs. She said she was the only person in the office today. She was able to give me a little more information, but nothing really helpful.

38.22% poly foam
48.25 weight

Pheonix, thanks again for your help. I know you must get questions like this all the time. :slight_smile:

8

On a side note I have contacted Brookyln Bedding and they want $200 to ship to Alaska, If I do not like the bed because it is too firm they will not require me to pay shipping back. However, if I need to exchange for a different level of firmness their will be another shipping fee. I am leaning towards purchasing their King Firm. They also said I could always make the firm softer, but making a softer bed firm is really hard to do.

9

Hi alaska_guy,

While it’s certainly true that Tempurpedic no longer publicly discloses the density of their foams … they are fairly widely known throughout the industry and they generally use good quality/density materials. Having said that … Like all the major brands I would avoid them as well (see the guidelines here) but more because they are not good value compared to many other manufacturers that use the same or better quality/density materials rather than because they use lower quality materials. You can read more about Tempurpedic in post #2 here and in post #10 here.

While some information can legitimately be considered to be proprietary to a manufacturer … there are many manufacturers that claim that the information you would need to make an informed choice is also somehow “proprietary” but I certainly wouldn’t agree. You can read a little more about “so called” proprietary materials and using this as a justification for not disclosing what I would consider to be essential information here and here and here.

[quote]Ok, I found out that Sound Sleep Products Inc actually make the mattress I purchased. The lady said she works in the warranty claim department and not on the technical specs. She said she was the only person in the office today. She was able to give me a little more information, but nothing really helpful.

38.22% poly foam
48.25 weight[/quote]

This is just information from the law tag and doesn’t contain any useful information about the quality of the materials in the mattress and only lists the type of foam (not the quality) and the percentage of each type of foam by percentage weight.

What you need to make an informed choice is the type, thickness, and density of all the foam layers listed layer by layer from top to bottom.

As you probably know Brooklyn Bedding is one of the members of the site which means that I think highly of them and I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. This would certainly be a good quality/value choice and because they are also completely transparent about the materials in their mattress they make it easy to confirm there are no lower quality materials or weak links in their mattress.

They are also correct that you can make a mattress that is too firm softer with a topper but it’s much more difficult to make a mattress that is too soft any firmer without removing and replacing the foam that is too soft. Having said that … I would make sure that you talk with them and ask what they would suggest for a firmness choice because a medium would generally “match” the needs and preferences of a wider range of people without needing a topper.

Phoenix

10

Thanks again Pheonix. I knew what I needed for information as far as type, density etc it just seemed all the companies that are local here either A) DO NOT want to divulge that information or B. Unable to find the information.

I did notice that Brooklyn Bedding was a vendor here and I figured if I was going to order a mattress it might as well be from a supporting vendor so they meet the high quality standards.

On another note I switched out my pillow from my memory foam pillow to a standard light weight down and my shoulders did not hurt at all this morning when I woke up. (I was talked into the memory foam pillow by a sales person @ price of $158!) Most expensive pillow I have purchased to date. The wife did say this morning I did not toss or turn really at all during the night, she said maybe one time. I had very vivid dreams last night and felt amazingly well rested and was able to get up at 7am today (weekend) without feeling groggy. That was a first in a LONG time… Maybe 3 years? I did notice however that my lower back was sore. I am not sure if that’s because I am getting used to the new bed or if its because I added the 2.5" memory foam layer last night on top of the mattress. The topper is an Isolus 2.5" gel infused memory foam topper.

Same one I believe as that, but mine is a King.

Any idea why my lower back is hurting? I read your other thread and it says it could be because A) sinking in too far in the support layer B. Mattress is too firm.

I only get 7 days with my current bed to try out before returning and I am trying to learn/understand what my body is telling me so I make a good informed decision on my next bed purchase.

Thanks again as always.

11

Hi alaska_guy,

Outside of PPP … one of the most important steps in buying a good quality/value mattress is to make sure that you know the quality and durability of all the materials and components inside it and if for any reason a retailer or manufacturer isn’t able to provide the information you need to make an informed choice I would pass the mattress by … no matter how it feels.

While I don’t know for certain … I believe that Sound Sleep will probably provide the information you need to their retailers (although many manufacturers don’t provide it directly to consumers) so my guess is that you are probably dealing with a retailer that isn’t particularly knowledgeable about the importance of knowing foam quality/density or that they just don’t want to take the time to find out the information.

This is one of the key criteria that would be a deal breaker in deciding whether I purchased a particular mattress or not since there is little value in purchasing a mattress that softens or breaks down prematurely no matter how it feels in a showroom or when it’s new.

I can’t feel what you feel or see you sleeping on the mattress so there isn’t any way for me to know for certain but there is more about the different types of “symptoms” that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most likely reasons for them in post #2 here that can help you with the detective work that may be involved in identifying the most likely reasons for your “symptoms”.

Based on the information in your previous posts if I had to I would guess that your comfort layers (including your topper) are too thick or soft and that the heavier parts of your body are sinking in too much and you are sleeping out of alignment. It’s also very possible that your mattress needs to break in a little longer or that you need a little more time to adjust to a new sleeping system that is different from what your body is used to (see post #2 here).

I would probably remove the topper at least for the time being and see how your mattress without the topper affects your lower back (although if your mattress without the topper is a little firmer then you may also need a pillow that is a little thicker as well to compensate and help with the shoulder issues).

Phoenix