Hi Beth819,
I did a review of all your previous posts to refresh my memory of your experiences and to see if there were any “clues” to what may be the best next step. I’m posting some of your “specs” and background information here first to make them easier to remember (and save me from looking them up again if necessary) and I’ve also mixed in some of your previous comments with your comments in your last post when they were particularly relevant and “connected”.
So first of all some of your specs …
[quote]I’m 5’7 and 135 pds, and a side/back sleeper,
I have a bulging disc in my lower back.
thinner and taller
I’m upgrading to a queen[/quote]
When you started you had one primary goal in mind (the back pain) and sometimes because this was so important you were mainly focused on this rather than pressure relief issues.
[quote]First, about my back pain- the reason I started this whole mattress journey was because I was waking up everyday with constant back pain when usually it’s not really everyday or if it is, exercises, heat, advil, etc will help. I mean there’s always some kind of pain there but it hasn’t been this bad since I first injured it a few years ago.
Anyway, with the mattresses I didn’t like I could tell right away or after a few minutes that it’s not good because the lower back pain is either worse or still there, so I eliminate it right away. But with the ones that I liked, I said that they were “ok” because I didn’t completely love it, but it wasn’t hurting my back, but then my back hurt later on so I wasn’t sure if it was trying a bunch of mattresses or what.
The issue with the nature’s rest is that after I left my back still hurt. I know I can’t make a decision based on that, but it’s still a bit concerning when the only reason I am doing this in the first place is to help alleviate my back pain. The reason why I love my cousin’s mattress is because after laying on it for even 5-10 mins makes a significant difference in my back pain. So like you said I know the high quality materials are there, but I’m not 100% sure the pressure relief is there
Does the nature’s rest provide good pressure relief in my shoulders? I didn’t even test for this. My neck is messed up anyway and this whole time I’ve just been focused on making sure my back feels good which is what is most important to me. I can test that out tomorrow.
Yes, I can connect back pain to when I sleep on my mattress, other mattresses, etc. If it’s hard or uncomfortable I can tell right away and won’t be able to sleep and it’ll hurt even worse in the morning. I’ll also feel pain when I’m more active, poor shoe support, etc. I can tell the difference in my back pain and which thing causes it if that makes any sense.
I’m pretty much a side sleeper, with only ocassionally on my back when I can’t take the pain anymore on my left side, and even then I end up going back on my side. But I am in my bed a lot on my back, whether that’s watching tv, on my laptop, on the phone, etc. But sleeping wise, I’d say that if there was no back pain I’d be a pure side sleeper. Don’t know if that makes a difference, but I know I didn’t describe that before so I’m adding it now.[/quote]
So your primary goal was was the back pain which has already greatly improved …
This is great news and generally indicates that your alignment is good and that what you have is a good place to build from. Your primary goal has been mostly accomplished and now the secondary goal is one of pressure relief and from here it may just be a matter of fine tuning the comfort layers.
I would also keep in mind that because of the complexity of your background situation (both existing conditions and “posture habits”) and because a mattress may not be the only cause or solution to your back issues … there may be no “perfect” or “complete” solution. All in all I think you have already done very well.
In essence you found a mattress that mostly solved your most important issue and found it at a remarkable price.
Given all of this … and noticing some of the same tendencies as when you were looking for the mattress and during our conversations … I think you may be “overthinking” and “second guessing” things a bit and focusing on things like how much you “should” be sinking in or what “should be” happening rather than on what is actually happening and your actual symptoms and experience. You may also be “assessing” your mattress based on how it “performs” for other things which it is not designed for. Your body is the best indicator of what you need rather than your mind
From what you’ve said … the actual “symptoms” that I can see (by symptoms I mean actual pain or discomfort) are that you have some lower or mid back pain and a “dull ache or weakness”.
This is one of the “other things” that a mattress is not designed for. This is normal because when you are sitting more of your weight is concentrated in a smaller area and the mattress is designed for your weight distribution when you are lying down not sitting up. This may also be contributing to some of your issues if you are “hunched” over a computer in bed or straining to some degree to keep your back straight when you are doing things other than sleeping. An adjustable bed can help if you do a lot of sitting up, reading, watching TV, or working on your computer when you are in bed because it will give you something to lean back against and help support your back, lessen pressure, and help with how far you sink in when you are sitting up without good back support (and probably hunching over a computer). This would be the same for most people especially with latex which is so elastic. Your weight distribution profile when you are sitting is very different from when you are lying down and a mattress is only designed for lying down.
By lower part of your body do you mean legs? Is this causing any symptoms of discomfort? Your torso (or trunk) goes from the top of your shoulders to the bottom of your butt so I’m guessing you mean the lower part of your torso is what you feel sinking in (and again this is normal because your hips/pelvis/butt is where most of our weight is concentrated). Is this happening when you are on your back? It would be very unusual if some other part of your torso was sinking in too far because most of your weight is concentrated in the lower part of your torso in the area of your pelvis. The lighter parts wouldn’t normally sink in as much. As a matter of fact … one of the challenges with a mattress is to “allow” the upper part of your torso and shoulders to sink in enough while preventing the lower part (hips/pelvis) from sinking in to far. Some clarification here would be helpful but again … your symptoms are more important than your “thoughts” about whether you are sinking in too far or not enough unless it causes actual pain or discomfort.
Sleeping with a pillow between your knees on your side is a good idea. It’s not clear to me though if there is a “symptom” involved here either. Again … how far it “feels like” you are sinking isn’t as important as whether there are actual “symptoms” (either pressure relief or alignment). Do you have pressure symptoms or other pain or discomfort in the hip area when you are lying or sleeping on your side?
This along with sitting in the bed could also be connected with the discomfort (dull ache and weakness).
If your alignment is OK then it generally means that you actually are sinking in far enough but not too far (at least in the hip/pelvis area). Again … how far it appears you are sinking in isn’t as important as any symptoms you are experiencing.
OK … now this is helpful and I think this is heading in the right direction. It seems to indicate the need for a bit more softness and thickness in the comfort layers and is “symptom oriented” which is helpful.
Keep in mind that there may be no perfect solution with your pre-existing conditions.
It really doesn’t matter if you buy a new mattress that has an extra inch or two in it (which would be more costly than a mattress with an inch or two less) or if the extra inch or two is in a topper. Having it as a topper has many advantages as I mentioned. For example the next model up in the PLB line is the Nutrition (which is softer) and based on the prices here you can see that the Nature here (this is the new model) is 10" of latex and is $2469 while the Nutrition here (also the new model) is 11" of latex and is $2749 or $280 more for just an extra inch of latex. The Beautiful here has one more inch at 12" and is $3269 or another step up of $520 for just one more inch. The additional price of each mattress would be much less than adding a topper of the same thickness and the topper would have many advantages. One of the most popular mattresses they have is the Pamper here for $1799 which is only 8" of latex (with a 2" comfort layer) which is a good mattress to add a topper and build your own comfort layer. This mattress and a 3" latex topper (if you purchase a topper with good value instead of one that is too costly) would be less than buying the 11" Nutrition for example. This is a more European way of putting together a sleeping system and it has many advantages over buying a whole “finished” mattress.
This isn’t “masking problems” but “building and customizing a sleeping system” which is very different. I personally wouldn’t start all over again which I think would be very risky and possibly costly given the success you’ve had already and when one of your most important goals has already been mainly accomplished (good alignment and back pain much better) … especially when another mattress may be even worse for alignment and you may end up with endless rounds of mattress exchanges … each one with a possible new set of “symptoms” … and each one adding to your cost and frustration. I think you are probably close to your best possible solution and “fine tuning” may be much more effective than starting all over again…[/quote]
.[quote]Yes, when laying on my cousin’s mattress the pain goes away every time. It’s crazy. She lives in ny, so when I go to visit her my back pain is gone the whole time I’m there. If I’m walking a lot, which is different than what I’m used to living in florida, the pain will come back but nowhere near as bad, and if I lay down for a few minutes after that I’m fine.
I do know the name of the model, it’s King Koil, Aruba
You’re saying that the beautiful would be too soft?[/quote]
Because of the complexity of your situation … only your testing and longer term experience can know this for sure (and again it would depend on your symptoms). As you know … when I tried to track own the specs of the Aruba previously I wasn’t successful (King Koil wouldn’t tell me) but if memory serves me right it had thicker and softer comfort layers. Based on your experiences though, while the Beautiful also has thicker and softer comfort layers … it may be too much of a good thing and I would guess that in terms of alignment it would be risky yes. I think you are much better off doing what you are doing by first solving one problem (alignment) and then step by step solving your “secondary” issues (pressure relief) so that the odds are much better of getting to the best possible solution for both.
Again … you would need to do more testing and then once again your longer term experience would be the only real answer to this. Suggesting a mattress layering based on “theory” would not be helpful IMO when you would need to test it in person and then actually sleep on it and let your body tell you what works. You are “outside of the averages” where any theory can be effective.
It makes sense but again this is coming from your mind and is not a symptom that is being experienced by your body. Are you feeling too much pressure or pain in some area as you are lying there? Again how far you think you are sinking in (and this can be “deceiving”) is not a symptom. Your feeling that you are lying on a firm mattress is much more helpful than whether you think you are sinking in far enough. In other words … “it feels too firm and I can feel too much pressure in “this” (fill in the blank) specific part of my body when I am lying on my side” would be a symptom. Again though … bear in mind that a mattress is designed to perform when you are lying down completely relaxed not when you are lying on your side typing on a computer.
Again it seems to me that it’s just a matter of fine tuning and considering where you were coming from and the challenges you are facing I think that a “fine tuning process” is perfectly normal and even desirable. IMO, small incremental steps are a better approach than bigger steps all at once (such as exchanging a mattress) which could risk what you have already accomplished (and the “value” you were able to find). You are already most of the way there (good alignment and only a little more comfort and pressure relief seems to be needed) and given the complexity of your situation, I think that’s pretty good … especially when you haven’t chosen a mattress that is too soft and can’t be “fixed”.
Just like the mattress pad from before … a topper would solve this problem as well because it would be over the cover and you wouldn’t feel it.
Overall … based on your descriptions and history … it seems to me that you just need a little more softness and thickness. It’s also important to make sure that what you do next doesn’t once again risk the return of your back pain issues. Because of this, if I was in your shoes I would probably try the Seven Comforts topper I mentioned before (and luckily queen is the only size available). It would give you a little more thickness/softness with less risk because its shredded so it may have less alignment risk and yet give you the benefits of a thicker softer topper as well.
While there are no guarantees of course (only your body will tell you how well it works and your situation is well outside of any “averages” that can be predicted) … the price is right and our past and current conversations and your experience on a mattress that probably had thicker softer comfort layers indicates that it could be very helpful in terms of improving pressure relief with less risk of changing one set of “symptoms” for another. It would also be the most cost effective solution (it’s very good value) because exchanging the mattress may end up costing you more (in terms of frustration, time, and money) and still wouldn’t have any guarantee of working any better than doing some fine tuning to what you already have and that has proven itself in “real life” to be close to what you need.
Phoenix
PS: In addition to an adjustable bed … it may also be worth considering a body pillow (you can search google to see what I mean) which may help prevent some of the excess bending, hunching, twisting, or strain that may be aggravating your situation and help provide better support when you are doing some of your other activities in bed besides sleeping