Subject: Hi
Hi
Just wanted your opinion. I am in a predicament of my own doing. I purchased a Serta Bradbury from Bedmart. Within 2 ½ weeks there was a one inch depression in the bed and it became too soft and felt like one was lying in a ditch. The bed was new to the floor which I didn’t ask and the salesman wrote on my contract that if there was over ¾ inch depression that they would honor the warranty. When the mattress was received the warranty card came and said 1 ½ inch depression was the warranty. After the two week period I called for an inspection. Yes one inch depression which they say is normal however Bedmart is standing by the ¾ inch depression written on my contract. The Serta rep says that is normal in a two week period of use! Really!
So back to Bedmart and was evaluating many of their mattresses and found the Serta icomfort prodigy. Stumbled on your site (fantastic by the way) and low and behold it is inferior foam also and you rate it very poorly. Here is the dilemma Bedmart only gives exchanges. I am a female side sleeper and weigh 220lbs I need soft but firm underneath. I have purchased many beds and they are good for about a year. Family and friends are very happy to take the old mattresses). I had a very firm foam mattress that was just too hard and could not find a topper that made it better. Hence my current dilemma. I do live in Phoenix.
Bedmart is probably now limited in selections for me. I have a 1700.00 credit when this mattress goes back.
Any suggestions you would have would be great. Previously had Tempurpedic ( became too soft) Sleep number (caved in the middle) Very firm foam and too hard but very supportive, I had a SleepEZe latex that compressed too fast ( a few months) must have had a bad batch because a lot of people are happy with it.
I have had multiple back surgeries, knee and shoulder surgeries as well as fibromyalgia. I would so appreciate your input and would be most grateful.
Robbie
Hi robbiev3,
You are fortunate that you wrote the exclusion on your receipt because as you know the iSeries warranty for any mattress with a quilted top has a 1.5" exclusion and it may never get to that point and loss of comfort or support is not a warranty issue. I’m also impressed that the retailer allowed this and is standing by it.
That leaves you though with the issue of what to do next … and this is aggravated by having an exchange selection that is very limited. Because of your greater weight, the durability of the softer materials used in the upper parts of a mattress are especially important and unfortunately Serta (and the other major manufacturers) don’t make it easy or in most cases even possible to know the quality/density of the materials in their mattresses.
Your best bet in these cases is to use the thinnest comfort layers that provide good pressure relief for your side sleeping. This way there is less sinking in and mechanical wear and tear on the foam and less foam to soften. Part of the problem is that even if a mattress doesn’t show impressions more than the exclusion … foam softening and the loss of comfort and support can make the mattress unsleepable even if it’s not a warranty issue. As you know … warranties have nothing to do with how long a mattress will be suitable for sleeping on.
In addition to this … even those mattresses they make that do use better quality materials (if you can even find this out) have poor value compared to smaller manufacturers that use the same or better materials that sell at better prices.
Because of the ongoing issues with foam softening you have had … I would tend to choose mattresses that used higher quality materials, thinner comfort and “pillowtop” layers (and I would tend to avoid pillowtops completely) and firmer materials as well (firmer layers won’t compress as much and will last longer).
You can see the layer breakdown of the prodigy in post #11 here. As you can see there is a lot of thicker softer foam in this mattress as well and the odds are good that premature foam softening could also be an issue with this as well. Mattresses with thicker softer layers and higher weights don’t go together well. It’s also important to remember that all memory foam will go through an initial softening period and if you are already “on the edge” of your support needs when you buy the mattress it will likely cross over the line into having less support than you need very early in the life of the mattress (as is happening now).
If I was in your shoes … and assuming that you can only exchange with another Serta (and I would ask this because the exchange is being made based on the store’s guarantee rather than the manufacturer’s warranty) … I would be very tempted to exchange for the iComfort model with the thinnest possible comfort layer (which is the Insight model which only has 2.75" of the gel memory foam over the support core) and then add a topper to adjust for pressure relief and comfort. This would “eliminate” some of the more questionable materials of the higher models and give you much better value as well. If you added for example a 2" or 3" latex topper to this you would have a sleeping system that used much higher quality materials at a lower price than if the mattress already contained materials that had the equivalent quality.
If you are committed to using memory foam as your top layer … then I would add a topper that used at least 5 lb memory foam in the thinnest layer that you believed you could “get away with” for your side sleeping but bear in mind that even high quality memory foam will not last as long as latex and will soften more. Another option that may be well worth considering is the new slow recovery Talalay GL latex that Latex International has recently released that is available from one of our members here. This has the slow recovery feel of memory foam combined with many of the advantages of latex and your total sleeping system would be higher quality and a lower price than buying an upper end model of the iComfort. Of course the risk with this is that you wouldn’t be able to test it first to see exactly how it felt but the combination would certainly be better value and still give you the “slow recovery” feel you seem to like. It would also have the advantage that you could replace the topper when it was necessary without having to replace a whole mattress (toppers will wear out sooner than the mattress below them because they absorb more of the ongoing constant compressions).
The only “downside” to this is that they may want or “encourage” you to “move up” to the same or a higher priced replacement mattress so that you can pay the difference and they can recover some of their “profit”.
So the Insight plus a topper may be a way to make the most of a very limited selection of good quality and value replacements and make the best of your situation and also have the advantage of a more “modular” sleeping system as well 
Phoenix
Phoenix
Thanks for your lightening fast reply. I am also in the 120 day exchange period Bedmart gives you. I can exchange for a Serta and not use my one time exchange since it would technically be under warranty and using the rest of my trial period for the new serta mattress. Or I have the option of exchanging for anything but that would be the mattress I own then without being able to sleep on it and the trial period would be fulfilled. I might be able to negotiate that. I understand your idea about a topper. I have tried many memory foam and feathers however I did not check the density so having that number helps. The topper you referred has an IDL of 24 would that still be good for my weight.
If I elect to change brands would your suggestion be any different? Would there be a firmer Tempurpedic that might also work? I tried the Beautyrest Elite plush firm and was comfortable. This is an innerspring as you know however has the pillowtop that you said to avoid. My take is still to get a firm foam and topper it unless with the expansion of brands you would add to your recommendation. Thanks Phoenix
Hi robbiev3,
Here are your options as I see them based on the brands that are listed on the Bedmart site. They don’t list any specific mattresses but that doesn’t matter so much because they mostly have the same thing in common anyway no matter which model … low density foams.
Simmons: Every one of their models, regardless of what the support system is (innerspring or foam) … will have too much lower density foam (either polyfoam or memory foam) in the upper layers for your circumstances. Even the firmest models would have this problem. The more you look for “softness” the bigger this problem would be (there would be more of the “bad stuff”). The only possible exception to this would be in their Natural Care line which uses latex in the comfort layers and would be the only ones I would consider in Simmons if they even carry these.
Serta: These have similar issues and while they use a mix of better and worse materials … the worse materials in combination with the memory foam which will soften for you even in higher densities will create a similar problem. The more you look for softness the bigger this problem would be here as well because all the major brands tends to use lower quality/density materials that are not as durable until you get to the very upper end of the range and even then in many cases. The better iComfort models for your circumstances would also likely be the upper end of the line like the Renewal Refined or Wellbeing Refined and I doubt either would have any significant advantages to the Insight with a good topper choice and they are both expensive.
Tempurpedic: If I was looking at this line I would avoid the Cloud series completely (which is the softest lineup they have and would likely be your favorite but uses 4 lb memory foam which I would avoid in your case) and focus on either the Contour line or better yet the HD line. The HD memory foam that Tempurpedic uses is the next softest and most pressure relieving after the ES (4 lb) and would likely be your best choice.
It’s unlikely that any of the Contour line would feel “soft” enough for you. The one that has the best odds would be the Signature. The GrandBed would likely be your best choice in terms of softness but it has such thick memory foam layers that there could easily be a risk of alignment issues. The next softest would be the Allura which has a more reasonable amount of memory foam but may also be too firm for you. All of these of course are also expensive and it would be hard to justify the expense when there are better options available.
So the better options would likely be the Simmons Natural Care line (if they have it) … or the Insight because at least these leave out much of the soft lower quality stuff (The Serta only has the firmer Gel foam and the Natural care has latex) and this would be a better base for a quality topper. Beyond the more basic models in the lineup which have the most simple layering … it’s difficult to justify paying more for a mix of better and/or worse materials when you could add them yourself at a much lower cost and have the advantage of much easier replacement and the ability to choose the type of top layer that would suit you best yourself. Major brand mattresses are a very expensive way to buy more and thicker layers of questionable materials.
So these are the options that I would most likely consider because it gives you a way to find softer materials that are higher quality and more durable and “add” them to a simple “base mattress” that don’t have all the “extras” that you can add yourself.
The Talalay GL would be firmer than most memory foam but in the range of “soft” latex. You will likely need more softness than others of your body type (who may choose higher ILD’s yet) because of your other issues and because of your side sleeping. While there is softer latex available (down to 14 ILD which is in the range of many memory foams once they soften) … the slow recovery feel would likely make it feel softer than the ILD alone would indicate.
So overall … I would tend to choose a topper with 5 lb or higher density memory foam, Talalay latex, or the Talalay GL and I would tend towards the Insight or the Natural Care as the base.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix
I will go check it out tomorrow and your opinion and knowledge was very much appreciated. Please think about enabling a donate button thru Paypal. Happy dreams soon to come…
This is a fantastic idea and I fully support it. The time and knowledge he shares is worth a paypal donation for some of the folks he helps.
Hi All,
I have always been hesitant about this because the design of the site was always meant to keep everything free for consumers and that the business members would support the long term growth of the site. While that hasn’t happened yet to the degree it needs to in the long term … I also didn’t want to go in the direction of even “hinting” that any donations were in any way expected or required for the site to continue and I believe the time is close when the site will support the efforts that are going into it.
On the other hand … I’ve had many requests now both on the forum and privately and I have to say that the thoughts behind them are very much appreciated. I also know that there are times when I’ve wanted to do the same thing in the other direction because sometimes it just feels like a good thing to do.
So over the next couple of days I’ll put a paypal button up and figure out the best place for it so it’s not obvious but accessible for those who may want to make a small donation.
I really appreciate the thoughts behind all of the requests … it warms my heart
Thank you
Phoenix
PS:the donation link has now been added under the services menu link
Hi Phoenix
Just a quick update. I went back to Bedmart and tried the Insight and the Genius, I found the Insight too soft and the Genius pretty good. The Genius has the cool gel foam and the small layer of slow recovery latex. would this still be supportive enough for my weight?
I will have a few hundred dollars credit and was looking at the Leggett Platt adjustable basis C3 platform. He quoted me for the dual eastern king bases 1800.00 and then I could use the few hundred credit off of that price.
My question is what do you feel about the Genius as a base mattress and I will go to AZ Premium mattress tomorrow to check out the topper you recommended( The Talalay GL). They are only open during the work week but extremely nice on the phone.
Hi robbiev3,
I would personally choose the Insight over the Genius because the Genius has 2" of polyfoam under the gel memory foam which is one more layer subject to softening. It would also be less supportive (in the sense of being softer) than the Insight. There is no slow recovery latex in the Genius. The Insight is also among the firmest of the mattress models in the iComfort lineup. Your descriptions of either the contents or the feel don’t seem to match the models you are referring to so it may be a good idea to check the law tags to make sure that you are trying the right models. Something doesn’t seem quite right here.
One of the “pricing references” I use for adjustable beds is http://www.adjustablebeds.org/ (part of Olejo Stores) which has among the best selection and prices for adjustable beds on the internet. They are also very knowledgeable and helpful on the phone. They carry Reverie, and Ergomotion (along with others including L&P) which both have better value in most cases than the L&P models IMO. The L&P Basis is listed here (for a pricing reference) but the Reverie Essential Plus and the Ergomotion 100 are equivalent basic models which have similar features and may have better value.
Phoenix
Hi
Your input that the models do not match what I was feeling made sense. I called the store and told them the Genius does not have slow recovery latex. I will go back today to Bedmart and also if time check AZPremiumMattress co. for the topper.
Hey thanks for the new thread I have a better understanding on the adjustable bases and have a great point of reference in the site you recommended.
Hi robbbiev3,
I hope you let us know what they say about what you were told … I’m certainly curious.
Hopefully the new adjustable bed thread will gradually include more and more information as I and others have time to add it. It was a great idea.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
I wanted to give you the update from my return visit to BedMart. I checked the law tags and they are labeled correctly. The Insight IMO was too soft and the Genius was still firmer to me. I did have a great salesman that called the Serta rep and I now have the foam layer for the Genius.
Top layer 2 inches of support foam 1.3 lbs. and 52.5 lbs. IFD (Indention Force Deflection for your readers)
Cool Gel Foam layer 2 inches 4.1 lbs. 10.5 IFD
Core layer 6 inches 1.51 and 33 lbs. IFD
Here is a link to what that means http://www.pfa.org/jifsg/jifsgs4.html
I know my choices weren’t the greatest as discussed above. I bought the Genius as an exchange across the board. I did this under the warranty (I was lucky) and I still have the Comfort exchange option till 9/28. I felt it was the best option I had at this point.
I also purchased the Ergomotion Serta Motion Perfect adjustable bases for 2200.00. Adjustable beds.org has them for 3200.00. Bedmart will do full free setup and delivery today at some point. These have the zip it closure so the mattress stays firm to the foundation and they also include the bedrail if you change mattresses. Thanks for your recommendation on the adjustable beds.
I then went to AZ Premium Mattress Company where I met Ken Hightower. I am in Phoenix so he is local for me. What a great guy! He knows so much about latex what a wealth of information. I know most of his business is online but he was great to work with and had some good tips. I did take your recommendation and asked for the Latex Talalay GL fast recovery. He was so surprised not many people know about this. Of course I mentioned you and your mattress forum and received 5% off my topper and a shredded Latex pillow that I now love!
Ken also sells adjustable beds he carries the Ergomotion 100 and 400 and will be receiving the Reverie soon. He has the same prices as adjustablebeds.org. Good to know for anyone in Phoenix they can try all his stuff out. Adjustable beds can be considered a medical device and he will take a script from your doctor and not charge you the tax!
Overall Phoenix I want to thank you for all the work and knowledge you have put into this site. Are you still evaluating the PayPal button.
Robbie
Hi robbiev3,
Thanks for the iComfort Specs. Your experience is a good example of how different people have different perceptions.
The Genius is “rated” as being firmer on the Serta website (and quite frankly I had no idea that the “support foam” underneath was 52 IFD (ILD)) which is like a rock so I was curious about how different outlets would rate them. I called about half a dozen places and most said that in their experience that the Insight felt firmer. The “rationale” was that thicker mattresses often feel softer but I think the biggest difference is that if someone is “going through” the 2.75 inches of the gel memory foam more … then they would feel more of the firmer layer below than a lighter person. Of course all of this is subjective but your experience on the two agrees with the Serta site and also makes sense given the firmness of the “support foam” underneath the gel memory foam.
Other than that … I am really grateful that you were able to find out the specs of the mattress. Unfortunately … as is often the case when you can track down the specs of a major brand … they are even worse than I thought.
This is actually the second layer down under the gel memory foam (you can click on Genius here on the Serta site) and is only 1.3 lbs density. This is not good at all and even with the firmness this low quality of foam will soften significantly over time. This is the layer that you are likely feeling because is is firmer than the more typical 33 IFD core.
This is also not quite accurate because the gel memory foam layer is 2.75" thick but if the specs are correct about the density then it’s the same quality/density as the Novaform and I was going under the assumption based on some calculations and based on claims that it had a higher gel content that it had a higher density than the Novaform. This would mean that the “base” memory foam layer was lighter than 4 lbs which means that it is also lower quality. The ILD (I still tend to use the previous term for IFD) is also very low but this is not nearly as meaningful with memory foam as it is with faster responding foams.
This one is the most surprising of all to me because while the firmness of this layer is fairly typical … the density/quality is the type of polyfoam that is only used in the lowest cost mattresses. I didn’t even think that Serta would “cheap out” so much and use this type of lower density foam in their support layers.
Quite frankly I’m rather shocked that the foam quality is as low as it is. I normally don’t put a lot of time into researching foam specs with the major brands because the outcome is always the same … lower quality and value … but in this case my curiosity is raised to see if I can confirm if these specs are accurate.
If your perceptions on the Genius were firmer though (which certainly makes sense given the high IFD layer under the gel foam) … then that’s the choice I would likely have made as well out of the iComfort or other options available to you for an exchange.
The Serta ergomotion is basically similar to the Ergomotion 400 in function (with a few extra features) but having said that if you purchased both sides of a split king for $2200 then I would consider that to be good value. The Serta is “price controlled” both in terms of the advertised price and the selling price and Serta monitors this (which is why their prices are so high) but if this really is both sides and is not the result of a “hidden discount” that was part of the overall exchange process and made it look like the price was that low … then you did well
I mentioned in your other post today but it’s also worth repeating again that I also think highly of Ken and he really is a wealth of information about mattresses, latex, and the industry. I’m glad to see he is carrying the Ergomotion and the Reverie (to come) because they are my two “favorite” adjustables in terms of value.You did well here
Thanks again for the kind words and especially for the foam specs on the iComcort. Even most retailers will tell you that their rep won’t tell them the information you got for us today. I really appreciate it!! I’ll also try to have the paypal button up (still trying to figure out where to put it so it’s not blatantly obvious) before I go to bed tomorrow as well.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix
The Genius was 100.00 dollars more than the Serta Bradbury. Again free delivery and exchange since it was under warranty.
Yes the price for the split King was 2200.00. I thought he made a mistake but he started at 3400.00 which is close to the controlled price. It is for the split Eastern king and two remotes synched up together.
One thing I didn’t realize is that you can only adjust in certain increments granted they are not great movements but it would have been nice to stop on a dime:-))
I cannot wait for Ken’s topper to get in stock because this bed is firm. Ken also showed me that when a foam bed gets too soft flip it over and put the topper on it instead of exchanging it. He actually had one set up in the showroom and did this for me. very interesting.
My next bed will be from Ken. Stand up guy! No more top S’s for this girl.
Hi robbiev3,
You certainly did well with this
That’s odd. I just tested my Reverie (in case I’d never noticed this) and it starts and stops at any level or increment in both head and foot. I’d be interested if this is just the Serta motion perfect or if the Ergomotion 400 is like this as well. When I tested it (the Ergo 400) I don’t remember this but I may just not have noticed.
In any case … I’m glad that within the range of possibilities you had … that you were able to resolve your immediate issue and got a great price on the adjustable as well. An advantage of having a topper as well is that it can also help reduce the wear on the foams that are in the iComfort so they can also last longer in spite of their lower density.
Overall I think your “solution” was the best one possible.
Phoenix
Hi robbiev3 and others with the same request,
I’ve added a Paypal “donation” button and found an inconspicuous place to put it so that it’s not obvious but is easily accessible for those who wish to use it.
If you hover on the “services” top menu item you will see a link to the page which has the button.
Thank you again for the thought and the suggestion
Phoenix
Hi
The button worked perfectly. With universal energy it is nice to say thank you. I understand it was not the site’s construction but there is also a way for you to pay it forward if you would like. Either way Phoenix I appreciate this site and your quick responses. I get my topper in a few days and will update then.
Robbie
Hi robbiev3,
Thank you!
Phoenix
I was able to confirm via email from Serta the spec of 4lb & 10.5 IFD for the cool action gel.
The koolcomfort in my Serta is clearly mentioned as 5lb, but I could not find anything on the cool action gel foam underneath it.
Hi crazydiamond,
I’m not sure what you mean here. If you meant the “gel energy foam”, this is latex with phase change materials in it, most likely Talalay GL fast response.
Phoenix