Tempur cloud 27 or John Ryan by Design Hybrid 4?

Dear Phoenix, I am so happy to have stumbled upon this site and whilst I think it is predominantly a US focused site, I am hoping you can help me! I have had a nightmare with my mattress since purchasing a new one in September last year. I have had lower back pain for years and thought it was just because a) I was getting older and b) because I am tall and all tall people are meant to get back ache! I was seeing specialists and an osteopath but they were just making things worse! I then went on holiday and slept in what I think was a memory foam bed and I didn’t have any back pain at all! I thought maybe it was because I didn’t do any driving on holiday (I do a lot at home as I am a rep), but in the end I realised it was my old Sealy posturpedic that was the problem so I set about my research. I bought an Origins 1500 pocket from John Ryan. Medium tension, but it was too firm and I was in pain, so it went back. I then purchased a Hamilton and James 1000 which ended up being faulty (all the fillings spread to the edges and I was sleeping in a dip), but whilst this was being debated I purchased a Simba, which I hated (too hot and very uncomfortable on my hip) and it went back after 2 days. In desperation (and because I was so tired!) I purchased another Sealy posturpedic (as I thought perhaps my old one was just too old) and this gave me back ache and shoulder blade ache after 2 hours, so it was back into my faulty Hamilton and James. Hamilton and James replaced my mattress and I am now sleeping on that but it is far too firm and I have a stiff left arm every day (I am a side sleeper/recovery position sleeper) and can’t sleep on it without a topper as if I do my hip bones burn. I am now looking at a Tempur Cloud 25 or 27 OR a hybrid 4 by John Ryan Design. The main thing that puts me off a memory foam is the heat as even though I may be cold at first when I go to bed, during the night I do get hot. I am 6ft tall, weigh about 145lbs and it is just me in the bed. Which mattress should I go for? please help…I am so tired!!!

Hi Princessandthepea08,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Yes, this site is primarily dedicated to mattresses in the USA and Canada, but I’ll do my best to be assistive.

You’ve certainly enlisted help that is much more qualified than I to address your problem – I’m sorry your back issue is still “an issue”. You are correct that it is entirely possible that you slept better on holiday because you weren’t putting your low back under the stress of driving. It also of course could be your mattress, or a combination of the two.

The James Ryan and Hamilton and James mattresses you purchased use mostly fibres on top, so you may not have experienced as much “cradling” as you desire. The Simba has a different design with a thin secondary spring unit in the top. The hybrid 4 is an all foam mattress using a higher density polyurethane foam (60 kg/m3 or 3.73 lb/ft3) and a lower density memory foam (40 kg/m3 or 2.5 lb/ft3). They don’t list the density of the polyfoam base. It would more than likely be the most plush of the mattresses you have mentioned so far.

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … Unfortunately, it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I’m not sure what you’ve read since you found the site but just in case you haven’t read it yet … the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will “feel” for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress … outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

I know this isn’t necessarily the answer you were looking for, but the information in the mattress shopping tutorial certainly is applicable “across the pond”. If you need help with conversions, please let me know.


Dear Phoenix, thank you so much for your detailed reply. Yes, I have read lots of your brilliant information on here and it is a great deal of help.

I have done a lot of what you have instructed since returning my first mattress!! I had no idea how involved the world of mattresses is!

I know without doubt that the cause of my back pain is the mattress (since when I stay in hotel or at my friends my back ache disappears completely. Having tested masses of mattresses I know now that the best one for me in terms of giving comfort on my pressure points (hip bone mainly) is going to be a memory foam. I am worried about the heat aspect but also know now that there are all types of memory foam and not all of them quality.

I have narrowed down my choice to the Tempur Cloud 25cm or 27cm but they are pricey and report sleeping hot (though sleep like the dead said that in their surveys only a few percent reported the cloud sleeping hot) and my other choice is the Hybrid 4 from John Ryan by design.

Here is a link to the Hybrid 4 specifications

Here is a link to the cloud:
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: bensonsforbeds.co.uk/tempur-cloud-sublime-mattress/

My question is to you please do you think it is pretty comparable to the Tempur Cloud and do you think it may be cooler considering the materials they use or do you think I should just bite the bullet and pay double for a Tempur?

I really would appreciate your view on this before I make my choice this weekend as you seem very qualified!

Thank you very much.

Lucy (princess and the pea :slight_smile:

Hi Princessandthepea08,

While price is certainly one of the more important parts of “value”, the “value” of a mattress purchase is what is most important and price is just one of many factors that can affect the “value” of a mattress purchase. There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” the value of a mattress because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that can affect the price of a mattress that can each be more or less important to some people and not to others who may have completely different criteria or definitions of “value”. The “value” of a mattress purchase is also relative to how a mattress compares to the other finalists you are considering or to other mattresses that are available to you in your area (or online if you are also considering online options). There are many reasons that a mattress that may be “good value” for one person or in one area of the country may not be good value for someone else that has very different needs and preferences or that lives in a different area.

Once you have narrowed down your options to a list of finalists that are all choices between “good and good” and none of them have any lower quality materials or “weak links” in their design and if at this point there are no clear winners between them (which is usually a good indication that you have done some good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your own local testing and/or your more detailed phone conversations about each of them, the firmness and suitability of each one, their prices, your preferences for different types of materials and components, designs, or types and blends of foam, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers and any costs involved, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on “informed best judgement” based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Tempurpedic mattresses use good quality materials but as you know they are in much higher (and mostly unjustifiable) budget ranges and for most people they certainly wouldn’t be in the best “value” range compared to many other smaller manufacturers that use similar (or in some cases better) quality materials that are in much lower budget ranges. You can read more about Tempurpedic in general in posts #1 and #2 here. While Tempurpedic isn’t known for sharing their foam densities, and I don’t have contacts in the UK, John Ryan lists most of the Tempurpedic memory foam in the85 kg/m3 range, which translated to roughly 5.3 lb/ft3, which is similar to many of their mattresses in the USA.

I already provided a brief breakdown of the Hybrid 4 in my earlier reply. It uses multiple layers of a foam they call Laygel, which from what I’ve been able to read seems to be one of the newer breed of higher-density polyurethane foams. One of the advantages of this foam layer may be a less warm sleeping experience. This mattress has a very different construction from the Tempurpedic. Both are foam products, but use very different types of foam in different combinations.

In the end, it comes down to your own careful and personal testing and analysis of the layerings within each mattress (based upon the durability Guidelines I listed earlier), and I would advise you to take the time to wear some comfortable clothes and spend a decent amount of time trying out each product, as this will be the most accurate was for you to determine which product might be best for your particular needs. Selecting which mattress might be best for you via an online correspondence is not something I’d be able to do, as I mentioned again in my earlier reply.

Good luck!