The search for latex in St. Louis

First of all, Pheonix, you are awesome for building and maintaining a site with such valuable info. Thank you.

Second, onto business.

I am searching for a latex queen mattress in St. Louis and I would like to share my experiences up to this point.
I started with your list of direct retailers here.

For convenience, here’s the list with comments. Side note, I am pretty aggressive with salespeople as I was one for a time.

Again, thank you for this gem of a site. We first tried a gel memory foam mattress from Sam’s Club (Night Therapy) due to the price and reviews, but ended up returning it. Soon after, I stumbled across this site and I realized that I had quite a bit to learn before attempting again.

EDIT: We also have the headquarters for Boyd Specialty Sleep here in St. Louis though I don’t think that they will be of much help.
I’ve only been able to find a couple reviews and they seem to all agree with your thoughts from post #3 on another thread

So Meyer and Maplewood only carry medium Dunlop cores from Latex International? That is rather odd because LI only produces Talalay latex foam cores—which they insist are superior to Dunlop!

—Bedimpediment

I’m not really sure of the answer for that. Both places told me that independently of the other, and I don’t know much about LI.
Maybe there’s something abnormal going on here.

Hi tismon,

Thanks for the great St Louis feedback :slight_smile:

I would also wonder why they are saying that their latex is from Latex International which primarily sells Talalay. Although they do have Dunlop available and this was even used at one time in one of the early PLB mattresses, I’ve never seen it in a mattress core outside of PLB. I would ask them if it’s natural or synthetic Dunlop and if its natural then it wouldn’t be coming from LI.

It’s not likely that I’ll have the time to call the local Verlo outlet (I’m several weeks behind on calls that I need to make) but I’d love to hear about your experience there. They are usually knowledgeable and have some good value and are transparent about their materials which makes it easy to make good comparisons but they may also not be in the best value range in some cases so I would make sure you make good comparisons.

Phoenix

Hey Phoenix, that’s certainly understandable, and about what I thought might be the case given how much you do around here.
I’ve given Verlo a call and will update the OP to reflect what I’ve found. The long and short of it is that they won’t work for even testing out layers unfortunately.

If you wouldn’t mind, could you please explain the “mostly latex” situation for STLBeds? I’m not exactly sure how to approach them on this or if they might try to hide it.

Thank you

Hi tismon,

the mostly latex comment was in reference to the Denver mattress latex mattresses which have been replaced by another model. What it means is that most of the layers are latex but that there is also some polyfoam in the mattress but that the polyfoam is in a layer where it won’t become the weak link of the mattress (either around an inch or so or less in the comfort layers or quilting or thicker layers in the bottom of the mattress under the latex).

As it relates to STLBeds … you could tell if any of their mattresses were “mostly latex” by making sure you have the details of all the layers in any mattress you are considering and then making sure that there was no more than around an inch or so of polyfoam in the comfort or quilting layers or that any thicker layers of polyfoam were in the deeper support layers of the mattress underneath the latex layers. “Latex hybrid” mattresses (a few inches of latex over polyfoam support core) often use a latex comfort layer over polyfoam support layers as a way to reduce the cost of sleeping on latex (you can see some comments about a latex hybrid vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here). I don’t keep a specific list of the design of mattresses carried by retailers (which are always changing and would be impossible to keep up with) so it’s always important to only consider or test mattresses where you are able to easily find out the type and quality of all the layers in the mattress so you can make sure there are no weak links in the mattress and can make more meaningful quality and value comparisons with other similar mattresses.

Phoenix

Okay, we feel like we are heading down to the battlefield with a winning strategy.

Since STLBeds is the only quality retailer in the area (Boyd is not quality and I don’t count Sterling as close) that has talalay anything, and happens to carry Savvy Rest, our game plan is as follows:

-Test out different layers starting with the top, all talalay if possible, and work our way down to see which work for us. Since STLBeds only has 3 floor models with latex, this may be difficult, but hopefully not impossible.
-Get the details of the layers that we want including inspecting any models for polyfoam
-As much as we would love to buy local, the price differences are just too astounding. So we will most likely speak with SleepEZ to investigate how closely we can get a match.
-Hopefully, we can find a bamboo cover as well since they simply feel great

One thing that I can’t find through all of this is how blended talalay is formed and what it consists of. I believe that I must be missing something in that I thought the only difference between dunlop and talalay is that the latter is frozen to preserve consistency.

Hi tismon,

Your strategy certainly sounds like a good one to me :slight_smile:

Blended latex (whether it is Talalay or Dunlop) is made from a combination of natural rubber (NR) and synthetic rubber (SBR) blended together. In the case of Talalay … the blend is approximately 30% natural rubber and 70% blended rubber. Dunlop can have many different blends that range from about 10% natural and 90% synthetic all the way to 85% natural and 15% synthetic. both Talalay and Dunlop also come in 100% natural versions.

You can read a little more about the various types of latex in this article and in post #6 here.

Phoenix

Wonderful, thank you as always. I had read the article before, but I suppose that I didn’t know enough about the market to pay attention to those details. :silly:

After going to STLBeds, I can honestly say that at least for latex, they are the best place to go to in St. Louis. Doug (if memory serves and it rarely does for names) and Zach are both great people and were very helpful. Doug, I believe, is the owner and is very knowledgeable as well as easy to talk to. Zach assists and although he doesn’t know quite as much, he is much younger and easily admits when he needs to ask something.

Doug also seems to be familiar with this site and said that he tends to agree with most everything that he has read so far in your articles. I explained a little further about the corporate memberships and how your lists of retailers on top of those help the community.

We spent about an hour and a half trying out different layering configurations as well as talking with the gentlemen about our experiences with other retailers in the area (neither of us mentioned names) and consumer reports on mattress satisfaction. We also spoke about the regulations on fire retardant covers and that since they are not very actively enforced in this area (even with a possible hefty fine of $6000-$8000 (need source) per set), there are some stores in St. Louis that are willingly disregarding the law to save on costs. Again though, he didn’t want to share names for obvious reasons.

Here’s what we were able to try and found for us (each layer is 3"):

Config 1 (4 layers)


Soft_ Talalay
Soft|Med Dunlop
Med
Dunlop
Firm_ Dunlop

Config 2 (3 layers)


_Soft|Med Talalay
Soft|Med Dunlop
Firm
Dunlop

Config 2 (3 layers)


Soft Talalay
Med Dunlop
Firm Dunlop

Our tell for which configuration worked the best for us was when the rush of comfort and relief washed over us when we tried them. In all of the mattresses and retailers that we’ve been to and tried, we’ve each only felt that with one configuration and only at today’s visit.

Her’s, Config 2 (right): M Tal, M Dun, F Dun
Mine, Config 3: S Tal, M Dun, F Dun
Cost: $3564 for the set

I was really hoping that there might have been something that he could have done with the price, but unfortunately, he wasn’t able to sway from the listed price. Though I suppose that such is the case with Savvy Rest. Perhaps they can find a more cost effective supplier in the future such as direct from the manufacturer rather than through a brand, but for now, we will have to go with an online retailer. Though we are big fans of Furniture Traditions and will very likely be back to STLBeds for a few pieces in the future…


Now onto SleepEZ
I’ve taken a look at Mattresses.net as well and have decided to stick with SleepEZ for reasons that I can’t seem to recall (helpful, right?)
It looks like their 10000 line with Blended Talalay would be a good fit since that’s the same size that we tried today. Though I will have to look into the chances of swapping out the base layer for Dunlop and keeping the middle as Talalay as well. I’m not sure if this will effect the feel or support from today’s trials much or not. I will have to speak with Scott to get his thoughts as well.
Cost: $1923.75 (1640.25 savings)

I was ready with a list of errors that I found on SleepEZ’s site to try to bring them to Shaun’s attention only to find that I was somehow on an older version. They must have left the old product pages up for historical links and simply added the new ones. Here’s an example for any other fools that folly as I have:
Old
New
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sleepez.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/51{10}25{6}97{8}21{7}81{12}134{22}136/osCsid/jfin0f7esmc0rcjbt97hb2kfs3

Needless to say, almost all of the errors were gone on the new site. WHOIS checks out as well (GoDaddy domain hosted on Rack Space with all owner info correct and owned until 2017, A+)
The only discrepancy that I’ve found really is that the warranty page states 20 years, but on the subject in the FAQ, it states 15. Something easily cleared up on the phone.
EDIT: It looks like you are directed to the old pages once you click on “Add to Cart and Configure”. So make sure to go back to Home before doing anything else.

Hi tismon,

It would be great if Savvy Rest could do something about their prices. They are very high quality mattresses with a very flexible design but they just don’t compete very well with other latex mattresses that use the same materials and design … at least for those that know of the many other options that are available. I can understand a premium in the range of 20% - 25% or so when you are dealing locally vs online and I would treat this as roughly comparable value but it’s difficult to justify a local purchase when the difference is much more than this.

I’m guessing you were probably talking with Shawn? (it would either be Shawn or Jeremy). In any case … you can choose either Talalay or Dunlop in any of the layers at your option. They are both very knowledgeable and will give you good guidance although I’m not sure I would make changes to a design that you tested and that worked well for you.

They have been working on a completely new site for some time but I know from my own personal experience that these things often take longer than anyone expects.

Thanks for your feedback and I’m looking forward to hearing about what you end up with.

Phoenix

Yes, I meant Shawn. Thank you.
At that point, I hadn’t called yet, but I just now got off the phone with him. Nothing was unexpected and once we talk it over and let the info sink in, then I’m positive that we will be buying from SleepEZ.
A few notes on the call:
Confirmed their policies
-90 days to return or swap a layer ($99 for return shipping)
-Shawn suggested if swapping a layer, call him to have them send the new layer with a return label, try out the new layer for a couple weeks to be sure, then send it back.
-The warranty is in fact 10 years fully covered and then an additional 10 years prorated and the warranty calls for a 1" impression, which probably isn’t likely to occur very quickly
-He suggested looking up Latex Bliss for places to try out layers and apparently, we have 10 stores that carry them. Though STL Beds is one of them and sort of makes it the only one stop store to test. I’ve not looked into them any to know if that information is useful at all or not.

As indicated here and here, Savvy Rest isn’t as specific as SleepEZ on what ILDs their layers are, which makes our comparison as follows:

[table]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Savvy[/td]
[td]SleepEZ[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]M(T)[/td]
[td]30-34[/td]
[td]30-32[/td]
[td]Possibly softer[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]M(D)[/td]
[td]31-39[/td]
[td]30-32[/td]
[td]Most likely softer[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]F(D)[/td]
[td]40+[/td]
[td]38-40[/td]
[td]Probably on par[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Maybe softer overall[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]S(T)[/td]
[td]20-24[/td]
[td]22-24[/td]
[td]Probably firmer[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]M(D)[/td]
[td]31-39[/td]
[td]30-32[/td]
[td]Most likely softer[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]F(D)[/td]
[td]40+[/td]
[td]38-40[/td]
[td]Probably on par[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]May even out[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Hi tismon,

thanks for the feedback :slight_smile:

With Talalay a difference of 2 ILD would be undetectable and would also be within the tolerance of the manufacturing process itself (which is about +/- 2 ILD). The reason for the wider range with SleepEz is because they carry Talalay made by two manufacturers not just Latex International.

With Dunlop there is a larger variance of ILD both in a single core (which can have a larger variance across the surface, between the top and bottom of a layer, and between individual layers that have the same rating). ILD in Dunlop is not as accurate as with Talalay (see post #6 here) so the ones that you are rating as “possibly softer” or “probably firmer” may also be the other way around depending on the specific layers being compared.

I think in most cases since ILD is not exact anyway their “word ratings” would be fairly comparable and would be “close enough” for the majority of people (assuming you are comparing the same type of latex).

The specs and ILD’s of the Pure Latex Bliss blended Talalay latex mattresses are listed in post #2 here.

Phoenix

Well, it’s been nearly two years since I last visited this and there’s been a lot of financial delays. Between getting laid off for a long while, starting a new job, buying a house, and getting married, we’ve had to put off dropping two grand on a mattress until now.

After reading over our posts, I am very glad that you (Phoenix) and I both put in so much detail. I wanted to document this for others in my area, but it looks like it was also for myself.

We just got off the phone with Robin from SleepEZ and placed our order. She was very nice and answered all of my questions. So here’s a small update until the mattress comes in.
Shipping: Rolled from top down/short side
Split fully vs solid base: Robin’s personal opinion is to have all three layers split for convenience and believes that the latex grips to each other pretty well, so there shouldn’t be any slipping.
Material: Blended talalay is the same as far as feel/comfort and support as dunlop, but more durable
Website:has been fully updated and there’s no longer any dead links that I can find, nor the two older sites being merged.
There was a mother’s day sale going on that added both the free pillows (normal), free sheets, and a discount on the mattress, and she honored the forum discount on top of that.

We did go with the Select Sleet 10" queen that’s normally $1750,
The mother’s day price: $1662.50
Foundation: $275
Subtotal: $1937.50
Total: $1840.63 including shipping, no tax (out of state), and free sheets and shredded pillows
ETA is Thursday and we just ordered it yesterday (Sunday)

Hi tismon,

It’s been a while and welcome back … and thanks for the update.

I know how easily “stuff happens” and the “best laid plans of mice and men” etc but it’s good to see that you reached a point where you were able to purchase a new mattress … and as you know I think you made a great quality/value choice.

Congratulations on your new mattress … and on your marriage as well :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it.

Phoenix

It’s been nearly another two years and we’ve been using this mattress continuously.

Overall, it’s great.

There was certainly a break-in period and a slight off-gas, but nothing major for either front.

The only thing that I wish that I had done was take SleepEZ up on their trade-in program while it was still active. My Soft-Medium-Firm approach felt great at first, but then broke-in and now my wife’s Medium-Medium-Firm feels perfect.

Swapping the Soft and Medium layers has helped, but I may still get around to begging for the trade-in or, more likely, ordering another medium layer.

We got a solid oak frame from a local amish dealer and are very happy with the purchase and approach.

Thank you again for all your help through this.
I’ll be happy to answer any questions if someone is interested in our process.

Hi tismon,

Welcome back again!

Thank you for taking the time to comment upon your SleepEZ component latex mattress, and I’m glad you’re still enjoying it. One of the nice things about having a component mattress is that you can swap out or purchase new layers over time, as opposed to replacing the entire mattress.

I hope to hear back from you as time goes on with more updates, and if you do decide to swap out your soft layer for a medium.

Phoenix

It seems like I keep needing to refer back to these notes once in a while. So I’m back once again.

I’ve been putting up with the softer layer for these past 7 years and after trying to keep up with a nearly three year old now, I could really use the additional support :cheer:
Apparently, I’m also using this forum to chronology the major events in my life as well.

I had to reach out to SleepEZ’s general email since it seems that Robin is no longer with the company, but Gabrielle has been very helpful in setting up a custom cart link with a 30x80 single layer.
They no longer offer the blended Talalay, but the ILD of their current 100% Talalay is identical to what I had posted in here before.
“For the Medium firmness it would have a 30-32 ILD. Soft is 19-22, Firm is 38-40, and XF if 44”

I suppose that this is just a post to thank you again for keeping this forum going all these years. The resources are just as valuable now and they were back then.