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451

Phoenix,
thank you for having me clarify the dilworth options in more detail.

This is what I received from the Owner Alan.

Blue Heaven: $1699 (This is the showroom floor PLUSH bed, 1999 with the 9" foundation)
6" of a 36 ILD Talalay Latex core bonded to a 3.5" 1.8 density polyurethane. Finished height approximately 10.75"

Performance Latex: Three layers of Talalay Latex $2199 (This is their showroom firm bed, 2499 with the 9" foundation)
5" of 36 ILD (bottom)
3" of 28 ILD (middle)
1.5" of 24 LD (top)

Model 1: 8" $2024 (This was his offered customization to achieve a shorter overall height with the standard 9" foundation, which totalled 2200. I actually think he means $1900 here instead of 2024, because at the bottom of his email to me he specifically says the 4" foundation is $300, and he specifically offered me this bed for $2200 WITH foundation) (If this option were selected I would remind him of the quoted $2200 dollar total with foundation)
6" 36 ILD (bottom)
2" 24 ILD (top)

Model 2: 10"$1874 (This is the second and last custom option he offered me where he suggested adding slats, putting down 3/8 plywood and covering it with a cheap king sheet, and putting this mattress right on the plywood with no box or foundation at all. He quoted me $1850 for this bed, not $1875. I have it written on a business card.)
2" 1.8 density polyurethane (bottom)
6" 36 ILD (middle)
1.5" 24 ILD (top)

So, thats the jist of his offer. The seemingly most interesting to us is the last option what he calls Model 2 for $1850. I can understand him mis emailing me the slightly wrong price because hes the owner and calculated the price right on the fly with a calculator, no pricing sheets to go by and he probably forgot exactly what he calculated.
Not a big deal on that.

Again, any of these above, he offered to cut 3% if I didn’t use a cc. And I can pisk it up and he cant take the sales tax from me for SC.

So, based on that what do you think?

We are planning to go by Southern bedding of columbia after work today, and if time allows, Best Mattress in Columbia after that. I’ll report our findings.

452

Hi Rhizzlebop,

That helps to clarify things a bit more although I think the first two may be reversed (the Performance latex would be softer than the Blue Heaven).

The performance latex has more latex so the higher cost would certainly be justified.

The next step would be to narrow down these choices (in discussion with Alan) to one out of the four taking into account the differences in how they feel (or in the case of the two you haven’t tested how they may feel in theory).

Once you have done this then I would make final choices between the different manufacturers.

I would also bear in mind that slightly firmer would be easier to fine tune than slightly softer because it’s easier to soften a mattress that is too firm (with mattress pad or topper) than it is to make a mattress that is too soft (either in the comfort or support layers) firmer.

I would consider 1.8 lb polyfoam to be a suitable grade of polyfoam to be used in the bottom layers of a quality mattress and wouldn’t consider it to be a “weak link”. It would be a suitable way to add some thickness at a lower cost without a significant performance tradeoff.

My sense is that you are leaning towards the Model 2 which would be the firmest of the untested options and firmer than any of the others except the showroom firm mattress which has the 36 ILD latex on top. Is this correct?

In this case 
 then this is the Dilworth option I would compare to your other options.

The only other thing I should mention 
 even though different manufacturers have different thoughts about this 
 is that if I had the choice I would place the mattress directly on slats (with closely spaced gaps) with a layer of fabric on top (to protect the mattress) but this would be assuming that the slats were well supported and didn’t have any flex. Gaps between the slats in the range of 2 - 3" would be ideal. This way the mattress could ventilate better than on a plywood sheet which can slightly reduce the risk of trapped moisture between the mattress and the plywood and the potential mold, mildew, and dust mite issues that go with higher humidity levels.

Hope this helps.

I’m looking forward to the “final showdown” :slight_smile:

Phoenix

453

Great info Phoenix and you are correct about our preference to this point.

Here is what we found tonight.

We went to the Southern bedding of Columbia tonight as well as best mattress of Columbia.

First at southern bedding of cola, Karen was very nice but not dialed into her latex product. She only offered one bed model in latex.
This bed had a 36 ild 6" core, and a 3" layer of what she said was 21-25 ild, and what she called a super soft layer on top that was 1.5" of 15-19 ild.
I had to ask her to look up these values as she initially just referred to them as medium, soft, super soft. After I pressed or values she pulled her records in a file and read me those values. I’m slightly concerned that these values were offered as a range. I would think its either a 15 or a 19, a 21, or a 25. Not a range or those layers.
Said she buys from latex international in Georgia. I asked if she knew her natural to synthetic blend % and she did not know and said the paperwork did nt tell her that info. She said she coud customize her layers and order whattever thickness of cover she needed.

The offering I described that was on her floor was too soft for me. If you kept her 36 base and firmed up the top layers it could be much better.

If her latex is good quality product, her value could be very high as the model on the floor, mattress only was 1350, and with the foundation,(which had height options ) was 1550.
If it would be similarly priced with firm mid layer and 24 ild top layer it would be very similar o the dilworth at a significant savings.

She admitted she only offered one model on the floor and said its softness was what “they suggested” so she suggested we look around and she would quote layers of our choice if we found out what we wanted.

We then went to best mattress here in Columbia.

As you might expect, he too offered a little different twist.
This store was big on varying the core firmness, and only putting the thick quilted poly foam topson both top and bottom making them two sided. We looked at 4 bed models here, I will summarize below. 3 were as described, and be was a hybrid different bed with micro coils in it. See below

Option A. Had a 6" 32ild core, and a 1.5" 1.8 density poly foam fill pillow top style thing on top and Bottom.
This bed was way too soft. OUT!

Option B. had a 6" 36 ild core and 1.5" 1.8 density poly fill pillow top style thing on top and bottom.
Nice but still was too soft for me. Also eliminated as it was just too soft

Option c. Had a 40 ild core and 1.5". 1.8 density poly fill pillowop style top and bottom.
This one was pretty good but the poly fill at 1.5 " I think was a hair much. Overall. Solid bed. This one was 2400 wih base. I think he valued the bases at 300 and he could vary the height of the base as needed

Option D was a hybrid bed. He said it had a 2" base foam, and then t had a micro coil system in it, and then it had a 2" layer of 24 ild latex. And then it had a 1" poly fill quilted op on it. This one was 2500. Same base pricing and heights. It was about 12.5" overall n height. This bed felt nice because my fiancé thought it felt soft( likely due to the top 3" of the 24 ild and poly fill layers)
I however liked the initial softness, but felt like on my stomach I set of rested my weight down through those soft top layers and really felt te firmness to be very apprent just below he surface. I could angle those soft relatively thin top layers, and liked the underlying firmness, and I think I could even handle The firmness bein just ever do slightly less firm.

Option E. this was a made of theoretical bed we discussed based on my feelings and our talk about option D. We talked about doing a 40 ild core to get a similarly firm core layer to the micro spring, and then doing a 24 ild 2" thick on top of the core. and then doing a 1" thick poly fill quilting ( because I mentioned I would rather not have more than 1" of poly fill that I know is going to compress and lose fluff eventually.
He quoted this assembly at 2700 with foundation.

I’m curious to know what bedding of Columbia would quote me to order a 40 ild core, put a 3" 24 on it and maybe top it with a quilted layer( if she buys the tops with quilted poly fill) or maybe just look at a 40 core and the 24 ild on top and (since her offering above seemed to be at a great price, if her materials are up o par) and optionally add my own pillowop to it. ( the dilworth guy suggested a high quality feather top can be had for around $150 and can be refluffed and make a firm bed optionally softer).

All the quilted tops at best mattress were cotton I’m pretty sure. Haven’t seen any wool ones here.

So I hope all of that isn’t too complicated. It’s basically the one from dilworth, we liked the micro coil hybrid at best mattress but don’t want to spend 2500 if possible. And we are thinking if we could get edding of Columbia to quote something similar to dilworths, or similar to the theoretical option E at best mattress. I just don’t know if her materials are up to par and she seems to not be in tune with the product

Thoughts?

454

Hi Rhizzlebop,

Actually a range is a more accurate way of expressing ILD than a single number.

Blended Talalay latex is the most consistent but measured in several places over the surface of a layer and then these measurements are averaged and “rated” as the closest rating number to the average. It could be =/- 2 or thereabouts over the entire surface of the mattress.

100% natural Talalay has an even wider ILD range because it can’t be made with as consistent an ILD as Blended (it’s not as even and smooth when its poured).

Dunlop latex has the widest range of all and can vary by around =/- 4 over the surface of the layer and in addition to this 
 Dunlop is softer on the top and firmer on the bottom of a 6" core so a 3" piece cut from the top of a 6" core can be softer than a 3" piece cut from the bottom of the same core even though they both carry the same rating as the core itself.

Fortunately 
 differences of less than about 4 ILD or so are not that significant and most people wouldn’t notice.

Blended Talalay from Latex international is about 70% SBR (synthetic rubber) and 30% NR (natural rubber). Radium also makes Talalay latex and also has about a 70/30 blend.

This may be a worthwhile option to consider. I haven’t had the chance to talk with them so I’m grateful for your feedback. It seems that they are less knowledgeable about latex but have good value.

this is a fairly common type of design that is used by many manufacturers. The key with this IMO is to make sure that the quilting layers of polyfoam are not too thick although 1.8 lb polyfoam is better than average quality compared to what is often used in the upper (or outer in the case of two sided mattresses) layers. these types of design will also often have a box spring base rather than a firm foundation to provide some extra “give” under the mattress.

Microcoils can be very comfortable and they are also quite a durable component. There are quite a few manufacturers I like that have them as an option 
 some better value than others. With 2" of soft latex and an inch of softer quilting foam though i can see that it was on the soft side for you.

This also seems like a reasonable option but as you mentioned the costs here are a little on the high side.

I would personally tend to avoid the quilted layer and as Alan mentioned I would add my own less resilient topper if necessary (featherbed or wool for example)

The materials would be high quality (there are only two companies that make talalay and both are high quality) but as you mentioned they don’t seem to specialize in or be as knowledgeable about latex.

Overall 
 you have some very good choices available to you and unlike so many others across the country 
 your biggest challenge may be narrowing them down to one at each place and then one overall. It’s not a bad place to be though :slight_smile:

When I bought my last mattress 
 the hardest part for me was eliminating some very good choices and narrowing everything down to one. It took me weeks of “agonizing” over small details and going back and forth. “Value” wasn’t really an issue because they all had good value in their own way. At least when you are down to final choices that are “all good” 
 it’s difficult to make a “bad” choice but I do understand how difficult this can be.

Thanks too for your ongoing feedback. It’s been very detailed and informative and I know will help others in the same area down the road as well.

Phoenix

455

Phoenix, again, tremendous feedback! thank you

So, I’m glad to hear that you did not sense any major red flags from being told a firmness range from bedding of columbia.

With that in mind, I’m thinking of asking bedding of columbia to quote me a bed with 6" of 36 ild, 2" of 24 ild, and probably with some 1.8 density base foam of 2 -4" to get the bed up to about a foot.
May ask her to quote the same with a 40 ild core.

Any opinions on those 2 and if I’d see a huge difference in firmness between them? Most comparable to the micro spring?

Do you have any recommendations for a nice feather top? I actually have enjoyed the previous memory foam toppers I had on my inner spring and wouldn’t mind a nice, but thin memory foam topper on it, but I HATE how they never fit the bed correctly and always sit, slightly smaller than the bed, just below the sheets. If I could find one that fit correctly, or tapered down at the edge that would be nice.

based on what she tells me, I think it would come down to the Dilworth custom 36 ild core with a 24 ild 1.5" layer plus a base foam, vs the above from bedding of columbia.

I liked the micro spring design with 2" ild and 1" polyfill topped bed at best mattress but I don’t feel the value there at 2500 dollars.

Dilworth came out to $1850 for the custom mattress only, no sc sales tax collected, + I have to go get it, and put down plywood and more slats. dilworth offered 3% off for paying by check. wonder if he might go lower.

if bedding of columbias quote came out similar to her bed on the floor (that was too soft), then around 1350 for the mattresst + sc tax 7% plus free delivery i believe, I can certainly pick it up for pennies.
bedding of columbia hasn’t offered anything off, but would probably do at least the same.

Would there be any value in calling her up down there since you know your stuff, and be sure she is using the materials she says she is using? are you familiar with a georgia based supplier of telalay? last, if her stuff is 70% synthetic, and 30% natural, would that be significantly less quality than dilworths 60% natural 40% synthetic? its a 30% swing there.

Sorry for all the questions, but we are close to an move being made and get this done.

Overall, I feel like I LIKE the soft top layer, and feeling like I “lay down through the soft layers, and feel the firm under it” while my lighter weight fiance mainly just feels the soft top layers and just a smidge of the under lying firm.

thanks so much.

EDIT: Update: I forgot to mention. The core from bedding of columbia is what she calls a 7 zone. She stated the following

7 zones-We reference this core as the average of 32 ild with density 4.4-4.7lbs.
Medium: 31 center, 33 lumbar areas, 27 shoulders & 29 head/foot

That may be standard for all “32 ild cores”. Not sure if thats something unique or not.
She sent me this info when I requested her to quote with 36 and 40 ild cores.
She sent me a PDF that talks about the details. Says it creats the firmness zones by bending edges (?).
Also indicates this one is the firmest of the 3 levels listed on the pdf at an average of 4.4 lb density.
(Not sure if this is a whole different core technology, and all she can get, or if the others are the same, just more firm, or maybe she can get the more firm ones.)

I understand there is a natural range, but shes indicating they have dialed it in for each area of the bed.

456

Hi Rhizzlebop,

There probably wouldn’t be that much difference between them although the one with the base foam would be a little softer (the mattress would be thicker and the bottom 2" would be softer than the floor).

As far as comparing microcoils and latex 
 it really is an apples to oranges comparison and would also depend on the other layers in the mattress which are part of how much of the “microcoil” feeling will come through. In the end it would be based more on the subjective perceptions of each individual which can vary from person to person.

Microcoils are a good component but it would start getting far too complex and probably confusing to try comparing apples to oranges or “designing” in a different component completely at another manufacturers who doesn’t normally supply them and then trying to predict how it would feel for any particular person with all the different combinations involved (materials above and below the microcoils and differences in various microcoils themselves). If they are not normally available from a particular place 
 I would tend to limit my choices at each place to what they normally have available. In other words 
 the “feel” and performance of a mattress depends on all the components and how they interact together not just on any particular one.

No 
 there are hundreds if not thousands or different products available and I personally wouldn’t tend towards feathers anyway. There are many other choices of foam or fiber that would also be suitable (lower resilience materials of various types). In any case 
 I would first buy the mattress and sleep on it and then use your actual experience with the mattress to decide on any possible fine tuning that may be needed rather than trying to include two variables in your decision (unless you have tested them specifically together). Post #10 here and some of the links in it may help you in terms of materials, post #4 here has some of the better sources I know for toppers, and post #3 here has some of the better sources for wool mattress pads and toppers but I would completely leave this till after you have slept on the mattress and have a better baseline for how you may want to fine tune it. There are also many memory foam toppers which are cut to full size rather than a little short in width or length.

Unfortunately I don’t have the time available to work with people on an individual basis beyond the help I can provide on the forum and I would quickly be overwhelmed. I much prefer to have each person deal with the local manufacturers or retailers directly and my role is to gradually identify better possibilities in each area to work with rather than helping with more specific or individual issues.

Talalay latex is only made by two manufacturers 
 Latex International and Radium and the blend for both of them is about 70/30 synthetic/natural and I would call both of them good quality/value (many sites list the Radium as a 60/40 blend but this isn’t correct). Both are available through various sources but in her case it’s Latex International. In an apples to apples comparison (thickness, design etc) I wouldn’t pay a significant premium for one over the other although some manufacturers prefer one over the other for various reasons.

[quote]Sorry for all the questions, but we are close to an move being made and get this done.

Overall, I feel like I LIKE the soft top layer, and feeling like I “lay down through the soft layers, and feel the firm under it” while my lighter weight fiance mainly just feels the soft top layers and just a smidge of the under lying firm.[/quote]

No problem at all. Just remember though that my role is not to make final decisions or design mattress for people based on theory but to help them get to a place where all their choices are good ones and then get out of the way. so that the final choices are based on their own value equation rather than mine. Your next step is to narrow down your choices to one at each outlet (based on yoru personal testing and your conversations with each one) and then look at the pros and cons of each to make the best possible choice based on your specific value equation. Finding the one that is “best” is not a specific objective process but a process that takes into account “gut feelings” and all the many objective, subjective, and intangible differences between each choice you have. Trying to define the “best for you” in only objective ways (or only on price) or based only on the “commodity value” of each mattress would become overwhelmingly confusing and probably impossible.

If you particularly prefer microcoils over other materials for example 
 then I would ask yourself whether it’s worth the extra price for the specific choices you have available in terms of better PPP (based on your own personal experience not on “theory”). If it is then you would be limited to the mattresses that used them in your final choices. If not 
 then I would exclude it.

You are in a place where you have good options to choose from and once you have narrowed down your choices to one at each place (and your confidence with the guidance of each is part of the intangibles that are part of the “value” of every mattress purchase) then you can make your final choice. Trying to incorporate too much “theory” into the process or trying to include too many options (especially ones you haven’t tested in person) will tend to make your choices much too confusing and can sometimes lead to “paralysis by analysis” because you won’t have the specific context and experience to choose between them based on your own perceptions on each mattress.

Phoenix

457

Phoenix. I’m waiting for some more optioned info back from bedding of Columbia But at he bottom of my last post I noted what she sent me about her core. I’ll copy here.

"EDIT: Update: I forgot to mention. The core from bedding of columbia is what she calls a 7 zone. She stated the following

7 zones-We reference this core as the average of 32 ild with density 4.4-4.7lbs.
Medium: 31 center, 33 lumbar areas, 27 shoulders & 29 head/foot

That may be standard for all “32 ild cores”. Not sure if thats something unique or not.
She sent me this info when I requested her to quote with 36 and 40 ild cores.
She sent me a PDF that talks about the details. Says it creats the firmness zones by bending edges (?).
Also indicates this one is the firmest of the 3 levels listed on the pdf at an average of 4.4 lb density.
(Not sure if this is a whole different core technology, and all she can get, or if the others are the same, just more firm, or maybe she can get the more firm ones.)

I understand there is a natural range, but shes indicating they have dialed it in for each area of the bed."

Does this sound like some kind of non standard core offering I maybe should shy off f or consider it possibly superior?
Not sure yet if he will come back and say she can get the stiffer core or not. I’ll keep you posted.

Also. I know m pestering you a ton and you don’t know me or owe me anything. I sincerely hope you are gaining some valuable knowledge from my research efforts.

458

Hi Rhizzlebop,

[quote]"EDIT: Update: I forgot to mention. The core from bedding of columbia is what she calls a 7 zone. She stated the following

7 zones-We reference this core as the average of 32 ild with density 4.4-4.7lbs.
Medium: 31 center, 33 lumbar areas, 27 shoulders & 29 head/foot[/quote]

This would generally (but not always) indicate that it is a Dunlop latex core which is much more commonly seen in a 7 zone version than Talalay latex.

While the zones may be somewhat of an “overkill” situation (you can see more of my thoughts about zoning in this article) 
 it also isn’t a “bad” thing either and if it matched your needs and preferences then it would be fine and it would be an advantage or disadvantage to the degree that it makes a difference for you that you can feel and how much it affects the price. Keep in mind that Dunlop will have a different feel than Talalay and you may prefer one over the other. The zones themselves generally mean that the core is firmer under the heavier areas of the body and softer under the lighter parts of the body that need to sink in more and in some cases this can be an advantage in more “difficult” situations where more softness under wider lighter areas are needed and more firmness is needed under heavier narrower areas to maintain good alighment. As in all things 
 if your testing indicates it is an improvement over an unzoned core 
 then it is a benefit for you. The zoning variation itself is probably withing the natural variation of a Dunlop core but it would still be softer overall in certain areas than in others. You can see an example of a seven zoned Dunlop latex mattress at Ikea here for example. The quality of the material itself is always the most important in terms of quality/value and benefits like layering and zoning which provides the balance of comfort and support that “matches” the mattress to the needs and preferences of each person are what I call “comfort specs” which are unique to each person and best evaluated in person. They are not a part of quality/value in the sense of "better worse but of course they are part of the value of a specific mattress in terms of its suitability and how well it performs for a particular person.

I don’t think there’s any such thing as “pestering” and as you mention 
 feedback from different areas from forum members is always valuable to other forum members who will be here in the future and builds the value of the forum itself. While there are many questions that are always better directed to the manufacturer or retailer themselves and there may be limitations on the degree of specificity that may be possible or even useful with certain questions 
 I’m always happy to answer any questions that I can.

Phoenix

459

So, we have been trying to get bedding of Columbia to quote what we wanted which was a base foam, a 36 ild core, and a 2" 24 ild topper. Both layers in telalay.
She seems to be coming up empty, at least with her first two suppliers. They all can offer her the Dunlop core, but not telalay.
She is trying one more supplier and is supposed to get back with me.

She does have a seemingly pretty good price on the foundations. A king for 195 and I can get 3" or 4" which I think Iill need

Night before last I decided to call up sleepez.com and talk to them.
Spoke with Shawn. He seems super knowledgable and helpful.

He asked our proportions and I told him 6’3 235. And 5’10 150. I told him I was a stomach sleeper and she was a side sleeper mostly.
I had wanted to discuss their 7000 lime thinking we could put something together very similar to the dilworth bed" just with a shallower “core”.

Shawn was quick to suggest the 10000 bed. (I guess I should expect that since he is selling these beds).

He said the three layers allowed for the most flexibility.
I told him about the dilworth bed we liked and how it was a 36 ild core with a 1.5" layer of 24 ild on top. Both telalay layers.

He interestingly mentioned that having a layer of latex too soft, would let me over compress it and it would break down that layer of foam a lot faster. I had not thought of over compressing the latex.
For our proportions he suggested my side to go (top to bottom) med, firm, extra firm. For her side he suggested we go soft, med firm,
Then of course the bed has an inch of poly and wool up on top under the organic cotton cover to make it a 10" bed.

He said this would allow the most flexibility. He asked that we please try it for 30 nights without messing with it and then after I could try the soft layer if I wanted and then swap it via their 30 dollar exchange program.

Before talking to him, I would have gotten a soft top and maybe two firm layers under it.

What are your thoughts on this? I guess I could create that by borrowing layers from my fiancé for a couple nights to see if I like that better.

With the 5% off and free shipping it would be very close to the same price as the current leader of our choices. Except this one can really be softer for her and firmer for me.

We are pretty close tO pulling the trigger some way or the other.

460

Hi Rhizzlebop,

I have seen Shawn “downsell” as much as “upsell” and his suggestions are based on what he thinks would be most appropriate. I would have made the same suggestion (based on thinking that “on average” 6" of latex would not be enough for you based on your weight).

Yes 
 softness is one of the durability factors and softer latex will soften faster than firmer latex 
 especially under the strain of heavier weights. The softening of thinner layers will have less effect on the overall mattress than the softening of thicker layers although they will be less durable (because they are being compressed to a greater percentage of their thickness). Their mattress doesn’t have any polyfoam and is quilted with wool.

As you can see though, there are many different roads to Rome (layering combinations which can lead to a similar outcome) and each person’s individual preferences may make “averages” less meaningful.

As far as comfort choices 
 I would always go with the best suggestions of a manufacturer unless there is a pareticularly compelling reason to do otherwise. They are the ones that know their options best and how each may fit different people “on average” more than anyone else. As far as SleepEz itself goes 
 they are a member here which means I believe they are among the best quality/value in the country. As you mentioned 
 you can also “borrow” layers from the other side for testing which is one of the benefits of split layering.

You certainly have some good options and while I always leave final decisions to each member (because all the objective, subjective, and intangible factors can be unique to each person) 
 it’s always great when none of your options are bad ones. The only other thing I would consider is to add a little extra “value” to a local choice (assuming it is an apples to apples comparison) that you have tested in person.

Phoenix

461

I bought Serta iComfort Prodigy.

Seems like sort of scare campaign is running here, so I decide to make some comments to balance it out.

First of all info about iComfort Prodigy mattress construction is either incorrect or obsolete. I was able to remove the cover by simple unzipping it and see how its actually built:

1st layer from the top - cool comfort memory foam with gel (blue one)
2nd layer from the top - latex
3rd layer from the top - some generic foam
4th layer from the top - springs with some foam on edges

Secondly I tested the mattress and few more in the shop at the time for quite a few hours, more than 4 actually. Trying to sleep on the back and on the side. This mattress, after all that testing, felt almost the best. Others tested where few Tempurs (slightly better, but much more expensive), other top iComfort mattress (without springs, cannot remember the name, similar, nuance differences), all sort of top gel mattress including honey-comb layer (ok, but mostly hot). Again, from all of the testing at the time iComfort Prodigy felt very reasonable, cool to lay on and being priced ok, not cheap but not 3-5k as some Tempurs.

I have had this mattress for relatively short time, so full judgment is still to come, but:

  • Initially it felt a bit harder then one in the shop. Now the side I used is getting softer in comparison to unused side. I keep it that way for that very reason: comparison, at least for a moment.

  • So far its not bad, I roll less, sleep better, with less pain at the morning. It does what is supposed to do.

  • Mattress is relatively cool, I feel cooler than most latex of soft pillow top mattresses.

  • The top comforts to the body shape for a minute or two. Similar way Tempur does, but less pronounced way and quicker.

  • I had some experience with better and worse spring mattresses with all sort of pillow tops. Most of them will break after 2-3 years and has to be disregarded. This one on the other hand, assuming that warranty is so deceiving as being suggested here, simply can be unzipped, top layer replace, then zipped back and all like new.

So maybe is not that all bad with Serta iComfort as being drawn in this thread.

Thanks, k_bed

PS. I am not affiliated with the manufacturer in any way, just a plain customer and the mattress user

462

Hi k_bed,

If you call a campaign for transparency in the industry a “scare campaign” then so be it but my definition is certainly different :).

Either way though 
 I certainly intend to continue with helping to educate people about how to tell quality from marketing stories 
 and there is a great deal of support both from consumers and from many retailers and manufacturers who are sincerely tired of the deceptive practices, claims, and marketing that are so endemic in the industry and the overall direction of the “dominant players” in the industry itself.

This is actually not correct. You can see the layering of the Prodigy in post #11 here which is confirmed on the Serta website here (click on more info under Prodigy). The only difference is that I’ve added the quality specs of each layer which Serta doesn’t include (for obvious reasons). None of the iComfort models have any innersprings in them (you are confusing the iComfort with the iSeries).

I don’t think that anyone would deny that the iComfort (or other low quality or low value mattresses) can feel great in a showroom. If you’d read a lot of the information on the site you would know that you can’t “feel” quality and that even low quality materials (like some of those used in the Serta iComfort series) can feel great in a showroom. They just don’t last as long as higher quality materials and the loss of comfort and support is not covered by a warranty. At least the Prodigy has good quality memory foam in the top layer and good quality slow recovery latex in the next layer down before you get to the gel memory foam and the lower quality support layers.

Of course none of this takes into account that there are many mattresses that use the same or higher quality materials that can feel and perform in a very similar way, will last longer, and are much lower in cost and better value. If you are happy with the quality of the materials in your mattress then so be it 
 but that doesn’t mean that others need to settle for the same.

If you are buying mainstream mattresses with “weak links” of low quality materials in the comfort layers then this of course would be true. This doesn’t mean though that every manufacturer uses materials that will break down this quickly. You are also correct that a zip cover can be an easy way to do mattress surgery and replace layers that break down too quickly but it would be nice if they were higher quality and value in the first place. Many manufacturers make mattresses where the layers can be exchanged or even split from side to side inside a zip cover and this is becoming a more popular option. Why pay this kind of money though for materials though that are lower quality (or overpriced) compared to many other options that are available for those who know where to look. Warranties also have exclusions which protect the manufacturer and they don’t cover foam softening and the loss of comfort and support which is the main reason people need to replace a mattress. While it’s great to be able to replace the top layer 
 this isn’t a warranty exchange. You can see more thoughts about warranties in post #174 here.

Overall you are confusing how you feel on the mattress with quality (like many of the reviews on the internet) and the two are completely independent. Quality is all about how long the features of the mattress you like will last. A piece of furniture made from particle board and covered with veneer can perform the same functions as real wood 
 it just won’t last as long and nobody would willingly pay real wood prices for particle board (at least I hope they wouldn’t)

It’s great that you found a mattress that you like 
 but the fact remains that the materials inside it don’t justify the price you paid. If you had other alternatives that used much longer lasting materials and sold for much better prices 
 would you really still buy the iComfort knowing that the materials inside it just don’t measure up to meaningful comparisons with better mattresses made by smaller independent or local local manufacturers.

Do you really believe that knowing what is inside a mattress you buy and the quality of the materials is a “scare campaign”. Would you really rather the mainstream mattress industry maintains the lack of disclosure about the quality of materials and the marketing practices they use. Is it possible that you are just justifying a mattress purchase that was made before you knew how to tell the difference between better and worse quality materials (like particle board and wood)?.

Thanks for your comments but I think that they are not based on any factual information about either mattresses or the industry and rather than adding “balance” they lead more in the direction of maintaining the status quo and an ongoing trend towards lower quality, higher prices, and misleading information that has gone on for long enough.

Phoenix

463

My information is 100% correct. I know because I have the mattress at home. As a proof here is the photo of the actual layers ofthe mattress. Also Prodigy has springs at the bottom, yes. Thats why its not reversible model. And thats why its cheaper.

532×800 93.6 KB

So rather than denying its good to ask for a source. What is your source? And obsolete web page? An obsolete model tested many years ago? Sure, the manufacturer should update a website, but refusing a product based on an obsolete information is not very wise, is it?

As I indicated in my previous post I alredy spend quite a few nights on the mattres and it does what is supposed to do. Not to mention few months policy return, written in contract. I can always return if I dont like it.

Of course the others dont have to settle for my opinion
 as well as yours. It just silly people are running away from a resonable product based on a opinion (yours), which is formed without even knowing actual product. I am writing to balance that rather skewed view presented in this thread.

The reality is that vast majority of conteporary products, inluding anything else beside mattreses, are cr
p these days. Both large and small manufactures commited sin of lowering quality, using questionable materials and cheating every way possible. Thats reality.

I am not confusing. I am fully aware of that and as I said before full judgement (after 5+ years_ on this mattress is yet to come. However I have experience with latex, honeycomb gel ect ect. All of them have problems and all of them are markeing hype at the end of day.

The fact is that other, supposedly better quality, but cheaper options are worth as much as they are paid. At the end of they you get what you pay for and somehow I dont belive is superior quality of small, local manufacturer. Sorry, too many years of experience as a consumer.

As shown above it actually very factual.

Thanks, k_bed

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Hi k_bed,

Just don’t tell your version of the “truth” to Serta 
 and maybe they will never find out that you know the truth, they are “out to lunch”, and their website is misleading everyone who buys the Prodigy :slight_smile:

If your mattress has innersprings and you believe you have the Prodigy you have been sold the wrong mattress and you are unfortunately mistaken. I referred you to the Serta site itself but if you choose to believe otherwise then there is little I can do to change the mind of someone who doesn’t want to know the facts about what they purchased in the face of the evidence presented by the manufacturer themselves. TheiSeries is their spring line and the iComfort is their foam line.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: Mattresses Online: Shop Serta, the World’s Best Mattress Company

The rest of the comments in your post is answered in my first reply and in hundreds of posts and articles on the site. I have no issue with what you choose to believe about quality, value, or anything else. The only issue I have is when you try to portray them as factual on a site that is dedicated to providing accurate information.

I’m glad you like our mattress and I do understand that they can be very comfortable 
 but this has nothing to do with the quality or value of what you purchased.

If you also believe that you get what you pay for 
 then there would be little point in doing any research at all about any purchase you make. Just pay more and you get more.

Phoenix

465

I don’t think anyone is questioning that your mattress feels pretty good on the showroom floor and at home at first. With the quality of foams used in the bed it should feel pretty good for a couple years. The point is it will be interesting to see if you have the same opinion in five years. What Phoenix is trying to warn people about is that this bed does not have a feel that will stay the same over time. They simply don’t use good enough foam. What he is also saying is if you look hard enough you will find companies that do use better foams and make beds that will last for about the same price or less. I have a relative that is a plant manager at a Serta plant. iComfort is a all foam line in their Serta plant. I-series has springs in it. If yours has springs maybe your regional plant does it different for some reason than the rest of the country.

The real test here is the test of time. We will just have to wait and see.

466

Phoenix, to get this thread back on track

So, we pulled the trigger on the Sleepez 10000 bed in Soft/med/firm and med/firm/ext firm.

It should be here thursday, and our furniture should be delivered the following monday, so a few more days before we get to try it out. I’m excited about its flexibility to adjust, and the apparent knowledge that is behind it.

We are trying to order a 3" foundation locally, still trying to confirm the delivery on that.

I’m actually going to attempt to send you a private message regarding a similar but separate matter. I’d love to discuss it with you.

467

Hi Rhizzlebop,

I think this thread went off track and became a “catch all” quite some time ago 
 although it is supposed to be the “iComfort thread” :slight_smile:

Congratulations on your new mattress! As you know I think you made a great choice and I’m looking forward to your feedback when you get it.

It sometimes takes me a while to get to my PM’s and emails when I have days where I spend most of my time on the forum (which is always my first priority) but if it’s something that is more private and not appropriate for the forum I should be able to read it and reply later today.

Phoenix

468

[quote=“Phoenix” post=11723]Hi k_bed,

Just don’t tell your version of the “truth” to Serta 
 and maybe they will never find out that you know the truth, they are “out to lunch”, and their website is misleading everyone who buys the Prodigy :slight_smile:

If your mattress has innersprings and you believe you have the Prodigy you have been sold the wrong mattress and you are unfortunately mistaken. I referred you to the Serta site itself but if you choose to believe otherwise then there is little I can do to change the mind o get more.

Phoenix[/quote]

Thats when ignorance of internet experts comes to show. I am sorry


iSeries family you refer to does not have any Prodigy model at all: https://www.serta.com/perfect-day-iseries.html#perfect-day-models . Can you see it there?

iComfort family does mostly have foam only mattresses, true. With an exception: Prodigy and other one, cannot remmember the name now. Please call Serta to clarify, before making false statements.

The same with construction of the mattress. When will you correct your Post#11 on that? I showed you a photo of actual mattress, yet you still don’t believe. Do you want me to take a photo of a sticker attached to the mattress? Or do you think authorized dealer would lie to me and thousand of other customers?

If you pretend to know about particular mattress and gave strong “expert” opinion, please use actual mattress rather then manufactures brochure or website. I can think about hundred of reason why website might be no 100% correct. It happens. Simply as that.

Thanks, k_bed

469

Hi k_bed,

Once again 
 refer to the Serta site and you will see that the iComfort series (all foam) includes the Prodigy and as you yourself mentioned the iSeries (their innerspring line) doesn’t even have a prodigy model in the lineup.

There are no exceptions. All the iComforts are all foam mattresses. Once again 
 I refer you to the Serta website.

The post is correct and is the same construction as is described on the Serta site as well. It will stay the same.

You can send me all the photos you like 
 it won’t change the construction of the Prodigy. you may have a mislabeled product but if it has an innerspring then it is not the iComfort Prodigy no matter what it says. For goodnes sake 
 look at the construction on the Serta site itself if you have any doubts (they list the construction of the Prodigy).

I have no idea about why they led you to believe that the Prodigy is an innerspring mattress but if this is what they are representing they are not correct. this doesn’t mean they are lying 
 only that they are not correct.

Until Serta changes the Prodigy description on their site along with hundreds of other retailers that sell the Prodigy 
 I will continue to describe it as it is 
 not as you believe it is.

Phoenix

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Glad you like your new mattress k_bed
Phoenix can speak for himself but maybe it’s not clear to you. If you believe you have truly bought an iComfort Prodigy with the specs you listed then you were sold the wrong bed by whomever sold it to you. Clearly you are still happy with the purchase
but the point is I would not personally have wanted to be sold the wrong mattress under the guise of another line of mattresses, regardless of cost or “quality”.

I researched the iComforts long and hard and LOVED the feel of them in the showroom. That’s how I ended up finding this site. I have ZERO vested interest in Phoenix’s site or the “scare campaign.” I am just fortunate to have received an education in value and quality with regard to a mattress and not just the “bottom line 50% off price!!!” and “showroom feel” that most mattress sellers are pushing these days.