The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz

[Rhizzlebop]

Hi Phoenix,
I found a thread of yours elsewhere that listed a few good places in Charlotte. We just visited original mattress up in Monroe nc as we came up to visit friends. We have an apt tomorrow at dilworth We are also going to swing by furniture row again and look at the snow mass and the aspen tomorrow. We are hoping to visit either lake mattress, or myluxurymattress mattress, or Rockymountainmattress tomorrow. Hoping to hit at least 3 of the 5 you listed.

As for Columbia, we will visit a few of those in the next few days.

Nw, as for original mattress, we tried the latex bad (9") and the supreme latex(12.5"). We liked the 9 inch better. The 12.5 was too soft. Had a great “ah” feeling, but too soft when I laid on my stomach for several minutes.

As for the 9" I sort of liked it on a solid base, my fiancé liked it on the box spring. The strange part was that I felt like it had a lesser pressure point to me on the hard base than the solid base which seems llike the opposite reason to like it better.

They offer a 5" box spring base if we wanted to go that way. It would put our bed at 19"+5"+9"=33" high bed. Right in the upper part of the sweet spot. I’d like nothing lower than 30 and nothing higher than 34".

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

I think you may have been one of the posters who managed to post during one of the few times the site was open for posting yesterday (when I needed to turn it on for testing) and ended up being deleted in one of the backup restorations I did during the process. If this is the case I certainly apologize

I can see you’ve been doing some good research as well from your comments which is great to see (you knew for example that OMF used an innerspring foundation which could change the feel of their mattresses compared to a firm foundation).

As for the 9" I sort of liked it on a solid base, my fiancé liked it on the box spring. The strange part was that I felt like it had a lesser pressure point to me on the hard base than the solid base which seems llike the opposite reason to like it better.

Each person feels things very differently and a box spring will change the pressure distribution away from some points and increase it on others because it changes your surface profile and contact points when you are lying down on it. So one person may need some extra give under one part of their body that may be their reference point for softness and firmness while someone else may feel it as being a bit firmer under another part that they are more sensitive to. Different bases all carry the same weight on top of them but the pressure is shifted from one part of the body to another depending on how and where it “gives” under the pressures of your body weight and shape. I know it sounds strange but I would never argue with someone’s perceptions no matter how unusual they may seem.

You have some great value available to you within a reasonable distance (unlike some areas which are much more of a mattress “desert”) and I’m looking forward to hearing about your experiences at the places you haven’t been yet and of course your final choice.

Phoenix

[Rhizzlebop]

Thanks again Phoenix.

I’d say for the OMF 9" bed, I probably liked it a 7-8 and she probably liked it an 8. Will update that score based on what we see going forward.
One concern is that the OMF bed has an inch of poly foam right on top and bottom under the quilting. Wasn’t sure if that was a red flag as far as not wanting any poly foam in the comfort layers. I guess the very top is considered the comfort layer.

Also, seems like a great value feature that it is 2 sided, but if the bottom is down on flay plywood(if we don’t get a base) or down on the box, then is that bottom side eing crush and compromised just as fast or faster than the top side? Hence you would not get twice the wear life out of it as I might first think since the bottom is being flattened even more than the top?

Otherwise, at 1750 for the mat and box seems like airily good value for this seemingly solid latex bed.

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

One concern is that the OMF bed has an inch of poly foam right on top and bottom under the quilting. Wasn’t sure if that was a red flag as far as not wanting any poly foam in the comfort layers. I guess the very top is considered the comfort layer.

An inch of softer or lower density polyfoam in the quilting wouldn’t be an issue for me because it’s not thick enough for foam softening to have a significant effect on the mattress. If the same foam was there in a layer 2" or more then it would be a potential weak link in the mattress. some people even prefer a very soft quilting layer because it gives a softer less resilient surface feel than sleeping directly on latex which some people prefer. The key is to keep it at around an inch or so or less of lower density polyfoam in the comfort layers if it’s there at all.

Of course with a higher quality and more durable material like latex even a one sided mattress will generally last for much longer than the lower quality materials that are so common even in expensive mattresses sold by larger manufacturers these days. The advantage of a one sided mattress is that it allows for different designs and layering that would not be appropriate for a two sided mattress (because thicker layers of soft foam on the bottom of a mattress can compromise support and alignment so the layering and design that is possible or at least appropriate for a two sided mattress is more restricted).

Also, seems like a great value feature that it is 2 sided, but if the bottom is down on flay plywood(if we don’t get a base) or down on the box, then is that bottom side eing crush and compromised just as fast or faster than the top side? Hence you would not get twice the wear life out of it as I might first think since the bottom is being flattened even more than the top?

When a softer layer is on the bottom it actually “rests” and recovers some of its resiliency. The weight is also spread out more evenly across the whole layer instead of being more compressed under the heavier areas of the body which is what creates the soft spots and the loss of comfort and support that is the biggest issue with foam softening (not the softening of the whole layer. If a layer softens evenly it is not nearly as big an issue but thelayer you sleep on doesn’t soften evenly but mostly under the heavier parts of the body. While a two sided mattress may not be twice as durable as a one sided mattress … it would be fair to say it will be at least 50% more durable and probably more (all other things being equal) than a one sided mattress and it certainly wouldn’t be 50% morre expensive because it would share the same support layer on both sides. I would rather have for example a two sided mattress that used 2-3" of 1.5 lb polyfoam on each side of a firmer support layer (which is on the low side for polyfoam density) than a one sided mattress that used the same few inches of 1.8 lb polyfoam (which is a higher quality/density material although still not the “best” quality polyfoam by a long shot) on one side only.

Otherwise, at 1750 for the mat and box seems like airily good value for this seemingly solid latex bed.

Yes … OMF is usually among the better values in the areas they are available and certainly better quality/value than anything sold in most chain stores or made by a major manufacturer (consumer ratings have also “rated” them above any major brand mattress in terms of quality and all chain stores and mass market outlets in terms of service as well) although in your case yuou are more fortunate than most because with where you are going there will likely be better value yet.

Phoenix

[jstephens]

Realize every person has different preferences with mattresses, but figured would pitch in given the last couple posts. We bought the 9" latex from OMF after a lot of looking around (and getting help from this thread) and have been very happy with the purchase. We are 6 months in at this point and no regrets, still very comfortable.

[Rhizzlebop]

So, Phoenix.
Today we visited furniture row again and checked out the snow mass and the aspen. Both are 12" beds with the snowmass being more firm slightly. We like it best of the two but we liked the OMF bed a little better than the snowmass.
I rated the snowmass like a 7 and the OMF bed an 8. My fiancé rated the snowmass a 6 and the OMF bed a 7.

We then drove a half hour to lake mattress to find they were closed today. Should have called ahead but their loss as we aren’t driving way back up there.

We then drove south and met Alan at dilworth. He was super nice and noted that he could custom split a mattress for us. However on his floor he basically offered two models and no layers to put together to try in any way.

He had a firm model which he said was 6" of base foam and then 6" of 36 ild telalay latex. It was nice. A tad firm. He also had a second softer bed which was 3 layers. It had the 2" base foam and then a 8" layer of 36 ild and then - 2" layer of 24 ild It had the ‘ahh’ feeling but was a bit too soft as I sank in too far we think. I think that’s correct cause he specifically noted that it has 10" of latex which was why it was 500 more

My fiancé didn’t sink in too much but I could tell she did a little more than on the firm of course. She preferred the softer model I preferred the firmer but wish it wasn’t quite as firm. Normally he was at 2k for his firm bed and 2.5k for his softer bed

He said he could make us one where he went thinner on the base and ended with 1.5" of the softerb24 ild on top just to add a touch more softness without compromising its firmness. We generally like the idea.

I meant to mention your site and see if he was familiar or if it would yield any additional discount.

We discussed two ways of making this Bed. First e said he could do an 8" total height mattress and eliminate the base foam, do a 4" foundation box and include 2" of 24 ild at the top. This was gonna be 2200

Then as we spoke more about my height needs from our bed structure he suggested adding another half dozen slats, putting down some 3/8ths plywood cover it witha cheap king sheet and just put the regular height 12" mattress on it. It would have the 1.5" of 24 in the top layer and that would be 1850. I can pick it up, he won’t collect the ax and that saves some that would normally be on top f this price.

He does not put any quilted tops of any other foam on top f his beds. He just does the latex and covers it in a heavy cotton weave type thing.

Honestly, I think hs idea of slightly softening th firm bed sounds good and trying to interpolate that, I feel about equal about it and the OMF Bed.
My fiancé thought she liked this one better than the OMF bed, but she admitted they were very close. She thought the dilworth Ed was softer than OMF bed which could be because she likes directly feeling the spongy latex over feeling the fiber filled foam topper on the OMF bed.
As we crossed back into SC we stopped one last time at the SC OMF and retested the 9" bed we liked there. Our feelings are the same, I feel equal about these two and she likes the dilworth slightly more.

He does glue his layers together but said e could spot gue on request in case there was a chance of being asked to change something down the road.

I want to visit one local Columbia store before our final decision but I guess right now we are leaning toward the dilworth with he tweak of the softer top layer . Again he said it would then be between his two beds in firmness, more closer to the firm end than the soft end He told e used mostly 60% /40% natural/ synthetic blended telalay latex.

I was hoping we could find good value under 1500. Not sure if he’s willing to o less or f mentioning your site would carry any value. We have a wedding in April and everything is certainly adding up fast.

that’s basically where we are at the moment.

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

OK … lets see if I can outline and clarify some of the choices you have (because I’m not quite clear on some of them) …

1 OMF 6" Latex:

Top to bottom …

1" quilting foam in the cover
6" 32 ILD Talalay latex

The quilting foam would give a touch of softness but in general the 32 ILD in combination with the relative thinness of teh mattress would result in a fimer than average mattress … especially on a firm base.

COST: (mattress only King) $1459.00
SUITABILITY: 7 - 8

Denver Mattress Snowmass:

Top to bottom:

1" quilting polyfoam (likely a little firmer)
2" of 24 ILD Talalay
6" of 32 ILD Talalay
2" Polyfoam.

This would likely be softer because of the same 6" layer as OMF but with an additional 2" of softer latex over that

COST: $1349.00
SUITABILITY: 6-7

I’m not quite clear on the details of the Dilworth options or on the mattress only prices but if I’m understanding you correctly here are the ones you are considering?

DILWORTH Option 1:

Top to bottom

1.5" of 24 ILD Talalay
6" of 36 ILD Talalay
4.5" of unknown density and ILD polyfoam.

This adds up to 12" … are these the details of the “regular” 12" mattress you would put directly on your bed with he extra slats and plywood. If it is I would want to know the density of the polyfoam.

COST: $1850 (is this correct for mattress only?)
Suitability 7-8 ? (only tested 12" mattress)

DILWORTH Option 2:

2" 24 ILD Talalay
6" 36
4" Foundation

The mattress only price in this is unknown so for the sake of argument I’ll assign a $300 price to the foundation to get to an approximate apples to apples comparison.

COST: $1900 (unsure because of any additional cost of the foundation)
SUITABILITY: ? (only tested 12" mattress)

DILWORTH Option 3 (one of the ones you actually tested):

2" 24 ILD Talalay
2" 36 ILD Talalay ?
6" 36 ILD Talalay ?
2" Polyfoam (unknown density or ILD but not so important in this case with such a thin layer on the bottom)

I’ve put the 8" Talalay layer as two layers because they only come in 6" cores so I’m assuming this is correct?

COST: $2500 - Foundation?
SUITABILITY: Unknown for you but 8+ for your fiance?

Are there any other options from Dilworth that are seriously in the running (or do these need to be corrected either in terms of layering or how would rate them).

OTHER OPTIONS: added for reference, because they are somewhat local, and because they have a mattress that is similar to one at OMF and one you tested at Dilworth.

Rocky Mountain Mattress 9" Latex:

Wool quilted cotton cover
2" Natural Talalay in choice of 3 firmness levels
6" tri-zone Dunlop natural latex

Very similar to option 2 at Dilworth except it has Zoned Dunlop in the base (may be firmer) and uses wool in the quilting which would be added value compared to no quilting or polyfoam quilting.

COST: 1700
SUITABILITY: ?

Rocky Mountain Mattress 7" latex:

Wool quilted cotton cover
6" tri-zone Dunlop natural latex

This would be most similar to the OMF 6" model except it has wool instead of polyfoam in the quilting (again added value), uses a trizoned Dunlop latex instead of Talalay and is one sided instead of 2

COST: 1450.00
SUITABILITY: ?

When your fiance said she liked the softness of the Dilworth … did she mean the one I mentioned (which you thought was too soft)? If this is the case (which I’m assuming because the other possibilities couldn’t be tested) then her perception of more softness would likely be because of both the layer of 24 ILD in combination with the greater thickness of the mattress because greater thickness works in a similar way softer ILD’s (allows you to sink in more so it feels softer).

So overall … there are some gaps to be filled in yet (at least for me to understand your choices so far) and possibly other options to be added (because I’m not quite clear if these are accurate descriptions of the ones you are considering particularly at Dilworth) but once this is done it should at least give you a basis for making final tradeoffs both between the mattresses and any other benefits that come from dealing with each of your options.

Phoenix

[Rhizzlebop]

Phoenix, I placed some comments within the quoted text below to clarify some of our choices.

[quote=“Phoenix” post=11051]Hi Rhizzlebop,

OK … lets see if I can outline and clarify some of the choices you have (because I’m not quite clear on some of them) …

1 OMF 6" Latex:

Top to bottom …

1" quilting foam in the cover
6" 32 ILD Talalay latex

The quilting foam would give a touch of softness but in general the 32 ILD in combination with the relative thinness of teh mattress would result in a fimer than average mattress … especially on a firm base.

COST: (mattress only King) $1459.00
SUITABILITY: 7 - 8

CLARIFICATION: this is a 9" bed. It has an inch of quilting on top that is poly foam. The other construction layers are on their website but my memory says it was 19 idf latex. It’s a 2 sided mattress. We sort of preferred it on the box spring base.
The bed plus the 5" base was 1750+ 7% tax + 100 delivery. They have a store in northern sc so tax is nt optional. Since its only 9 inches the box is a must so that’s why I figured it based on the 1750 price.
This would make the overall bed height 19+5+9= 33"

Denver Mattress Snowmass:

Top to bottom:

1" quilting polyfoam (likely a little firmer)
2" of 24 ILD Talalay
6" of 32 ILD Talalay
2" Polyfoam.

This would likely be softer because of the same 6" layer as OMF but with an additional 2" of softer latex over that

COST: $1349.00
SUITABILITY: 6-7

CLARIFICATION: this bed we liked slightly less than the OMF bed. It is 11" high mattress only. Could do their 2" platform or could do some 1" plywood covered in a king sheet. Don’t think this bed is in the overall running at this point.
It would be 1400 bed only or 1700 w the base. Tax is not added if they deliver. It is added if I pick it up. Delivery is 100 more.

I’m not quite clear on the details of the Dilworth options or on the mattress only prices but if I’m understanding you correctly here are the ones you are considering?

DILWORTH Option 1:

Top to bottom

1.5" of 24 ILD Talalay
6" of 36 ILD Talalay
4.5" of unknown density and ILD polyfoam.

This adds up to 12" … are these the details of the “regular” 12" mattress you would put directly on your bed with he extra slats and plywood. If it is I would want to know the density of the polyfoam.

COST: $1850 (is this correct for mattress only?)
Suitability 7-8 ? (only tested 12" mattress)

DILWORTH Option 2:

2" 24 ILD Talalay
6" 36
4" Foundation

The mattress only price in this is unknown so for the sake of argument I’ll assign a $300 price to the foundation to get to an approximate apples to apples comparison.

COST: $1900 (unsure because of any additional cost of the foundation)
SUITABILITY: ? (only tested 12" mattress)

DILWORTH Option 3 (one of the ones you actually tested):

2" 24 ILD Talalay
2" 36 ILD Talalay ?
6" 36 ILD Talalay ?
2" Polyfoam (unknown density or ILD but not so important in this case with such a thin layer on the bottom)

I’ve put the 8" Talalay layer as two layers because they only come in 6" cores so I’m assuming this is correct?

COST: $2500 - Foundation?
SUITABILITY: Unknown for you but 8+ for your fiance?

Are there any other options from Dilworth that are seriously in the running (or do these need to be corrected either in terms of layering or how would rate them).

Let me just reattach the dilworth options here and see if I can be more clear.

Dilworth option 1:
This bed was on the floor for trial
It was a firm bed 12" height.
He said it had a 6" base foam. Didn’t give me that density
He said it had a 6" layer of 36 ild latex foam.
It did not have a quilted layer It just had a cotton knitted type cover on it.
It felt nice but a tad firm.
It was 2000 for the mattress and 9 inch base.

Option 2 at dilworth was also on the floor. It had base foam, a core Ayer of 36 ild. And a 2" layer of 4 ild on top. It was much softer. Nice, but probably oo soft or my weight. My fiancé loved it and said it was her favorite.
If cores only come in 6" and if you think the 24 ild only comes in 2" layers and he stated it had 10" of latex which raised the price of it to 2500. Then deductive reasoning would say it had a 2" base foam, a 6" core which he said was 36ild. And 2 2" layers of 24 ild latex. All of that seems to jive and make sense.

Option 3.
We discussed our feelings about the firmness of these two beds above. So he suggested the following: he could make us the firm bed and top it with a 2" layer of the 24 ild stuff. It would be an overall 8" height. So he said he would not use a base foam the same 6" core, and the 2" top
That with the foundation would have been 2200. He did not separate the mattress from the foundation price. he was also going to make a 4" foundation to get the overall height down so it would be 19"+4"+ 8"= 33" overall bed height.

Then, we kind of got into the bed design and the height issues and so he suggested a 4th option. He would forgo any foundation at all. He asked how many slats and legs the bed had. I said about 8-10 slats and 2 center legs.
At that point he said, His suggestion would be this. I buy another half dozen to 8 slats, put down some 3/8ths plywood covering the slats. Then he would not provide a foundation at all and make me a full 12" mattress, with a 6" core of the 36 ild and put a 1.5" 24 ild top layer on it and I’m guessing either a 4" or maybe a 4.5" base layer of foam. (so overall would be either 11.5" or 12" high. Then I could put it right on the plywood and e right at 31" high overall for the bed surface.
He said this would give us a slightly softer feel than the firm bed we laid n, but it would still provide me the support I need to keep my back straight. This he wanted 1850 for it. Hard to quantify the value of the foundation because it’s going to a taller bed, but removing the foundation when compared to his 2200 dollar offer.

On top of this, any of the beds from dilworth he won’t charge me sales tax as I’m in sc and I can pick it up myself and avoid 200+ delivery fee. Also he said if I pay cash or check he will cut 3% off since no visa fee for him to eat.

In summary. I felt better supported on the firm bed, but I felt the soft bed was more plush comfy, and my fiancé liked the more plush bed. This is why he basically offered to do the firm bed with the thinner layer of 24 ild on top saying that should be a nice compromise of the two choices. But we did not actually get to try that combo as he didn’t take pieces and stack em up.

---

When we discussed this

OTHER OPTIONS: added for reference, because they are somewhat local, and because they have a mattress that is similar to one at OMF and one you tested at Dilworth.

Rocky Mountain Mattress 9" Latex:

Wool quilted cotton cover
2" Natural Talalay in choice of 3 firmness levels
6" tri-zone Dunlop natural latex

Very similar to option 2 at Dilworth except it has Zoned Dunlop in the base (may be firmer) and uses wool in the quilting which would be added value compared to no quilting or polyfoam quilting.

COST: 1700
SUITABILITY: ?

Rocky Mountain Mattress 7" latex:

Wool quilted cotton cover
6" tri-zone Dunlop natural latex

This would be most similar to the OMF 6" model except it has wool instead of polyfoam in the quilting (again added value), uses a trizoned Dunlop latex instead of Talalay and is one sided instead of 2

COST: 1450.00
SUITABILITY: ?

When your fiance said she liked the softness of the Dilworth … did she mean the one I mentioned (which you thought was too soft)? If this is the case (which I’m assuming because the other possibilities couldn’t be tested) then her perception of more softness would likely be because of both the layer of 24 ILD in combination with the greater thickness of the mattress because greater thickness works in a similar way softer ILD’s (allows you to sink in more so it feels softer).

So overall … there are some gaps to be filled in yet (at least for me to understand your choices so far) and possibly other options to be added (because I’m not quite clear if these are accurate descriptions of the ones you are considering particularly at Dilworth) but once this is done it should at least give you a basis for making final tradeoffs both between the mattresses and any other benefits that come from dealing with each of your options.

Phoenix[/quote]

So I hope that helps clarify our homies.
The guy at dilworth also mentioned he does not use any Dunlop foam. He said several years ago the foam supplier plant had a fire and he had to buy Dunlop out of England He said he had more complaints and problems in those two years than his other years in business combined.

I was hoping to not go all the way back to Rockymountainmattress because it is 2:40 minutes north of year, 45 minutes north of Charlotte.

We do plan to visit best mattress here in Columbia. And soutthern bedding of Columbia.

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

Just a “clarification to the clarification” before I read the rest of your post …

CLARIFICATION: this is a 9" bed. It has an inch of quilting on top that is poly foam. The other construction layers are on their website but my memory says it was 19 idf latex. It’s a 2 sided mattress. We sort of preferred it on the box spring base.
The bed plus the 5" base was 1750+ 7% tax + 100 delivery. They have a store in northern sc so tax is nt optional. Since its only 9 inches the box is a must so that’s why I figured it based on the 1750 price.
This would make the overall bed height 19+5+9= 33"

Yes … the mattress is 9" but it only has 6" of latex (which is 32 ILD not 19 ILD) and then there is an inch of quilting polyfoam on each side. This comes to 8" of foam and the rest of the thickness is the ticking. Having it on the box spring base would result in slightly more “give” underneath it to make up for it’s relative firmness. While I understand that it may need the box spring … to make comparisons with other mattresses in terms of its value … then it’s more accurate to compare mattress only to mattress only even though you would be buying the base as well if this was your choice. Comparing the “value” of the mattress itself is one of the “pieces” of the puzzle and the starting point for comparison that I use and then I add any “add ons” (in this case the box spring) that may be necessary. This way you can consider if there are any “substitutes” for one of the components that may lower your cost.

The rest is coming once I’ve had the chance to read (and think about) the rest of your post.

Phoenix

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

Just one more clarification before I go into the Dilworth options …

CLARIFICATION: this bed we liked slightly less than the OMF bed. It is 11" high mattress only. Could do their 2" platform or could do some 1" plywood covered in a king sheet. Don’t think this bed is in the overall running at this point.
It would be 1400 bed only or 1700 w the base. Tax is not added if they deliver. It is added if I pick it up. Delivery is 100 more.

This mattress is basically 8" of Talalay latex with 3" of polyfoam just to give the “basic” material specs for comparison purposes. It would be most comparable in terms of “commodity value” to the 12" mattress at OMF which also has 9" of latex (a 6" core and 1.5" of convoluted latex on each side) along with 2" of polyfoam. I understand that it is not really in the running but for the purposes of making a “value” comparison the mattress only would be $1349 while the Latex Supreme at OMF would be $2069 so you would be paying $720 more to replace an inch of polyfoam for an inch of latex which means that from purely a materials point of view … the Denver mattress would clearly be better value. This helps put OMF itself in a “value range” in terms of materials because most mattresses made by the same manufacturer would have similar “value”.

The next step I would take though would be to narrow down your choices at Dilworth to only one.

In order to do this you would need to fill in any of the additional information (with a phone call to them) that is missing in each of the options you are considering there.

Your option 1 is clear to me which is a 6" base polyfoam under 6" of latex (as you mentioned 36 ILD but this is a comfort spec so it’s not as important because your body wand testing will tell you more than the number). Since the base polyfoam is a significant part of this mattress I would want to know the density (quality) of the base foam because without this you have no way of knowing its quality or “value”.

I would also want to know the mattress only price so I could find out what I was being charged for the base because there may be other bases that are just as suitable but less costly.

Option 2 is fairly clear to me although I would make sure that you confirmed the layering rather than having to reason it out. Almost all latex comes in 6" cores (or at least about 6" because the blended talalay made by latex International is about 5.6"). These cores can be cut into any thickness that a manufacturer may want to use no matter what the ILD so 24 ILD could be anywhere from 1" to 6" or anything in between.

So this mattress contains from bottom to top …

2" polyfoam (I would want to know the thickness and the density here as well although it’s likely that it would be the same density as the first option)
6" of 36 ILD latex
2" of 36 ILD latex?
2" of 24 ILD latex

Again … I would also want to know the mattress only price (for the same reasons as option #1).

I would also want to know the ILD of the middle layer because this may help you speculate about the suitability of the other options here that you didn’t test.

These are the ones you tested and would be the reference points for the others you were discussing.

Option 3 is also clear to me.

From bottom to top it has 6" of 36 ILD latex
2" of 24 ILD latex

This one removes the base layer of polyfoam completely which of course would significantly lessen the cost and would make it firmer than these same layers on top of an additional layer of polyfoam or latex. This would be firmer in other words than option #2.

Again … I would want to know the mattress only cost because again there could be other options available for a similar base.

With option 4 … I would want to get specific with no “guessing” involved.
4 - 4.5" layer of base polyfoam
6" of 36 ILD latex
1.5" of 24 ILD latex

Once again … I would want to know the density/quality of the base foam. Since I would be asking him about all the missing information anyway … I would probably also clarify the exact thickness of the polyfoam just to make sure I understood everything correctly even though the difference of 1/2" wouldn’t be significant.

In this case you already have the mattress only price which is $1850.

So once you have all the details you need to make meaningful comparisons between each of the 4 options … your next step would be to “pretend” that these were your only options and decide which one you would buy if these were all you had to choose from.

2 of them you would already know how they felt and the other 2 you would need to speculate somewhat but I would want some reasonable confidence of how they would feel compared to the other 2. I would think that the 6" + 1.5" version would be a fair bit firmer than option 2 and slightly firmer than option 3 (because it had 1/2" less latex on top and your base with the extra slats would be similar to the firm base that would be included in option 3).

So taking into account the uncertainty of the “untried” choices and your confidence in how they would feel to you … which of these would you buy if you had to (mattress only) in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) ignoring for the moment any foundation or height requirements you may have (because you have many options for this).

Once you have narrowed your choices here down to 1 at Dilworth … then you can compare this to any others that are in the running and make final decisions.

Phoenix

[Rhizzlebop]

Phoenix,
thank you for having me clarify the dilworth options in more detail.

This is what I received from the Owner Alan.

Blue Heaven: $1699 (This is the showroom floor PLUSH bed, 1999 with the 9" foundation)
6" of a 36 ILD Talalay Latex core bonded to a 3.5" 1.8 density polyurethane. Finished height approximately 10.75"

Performance Latex: Three layers of Talalay Latex $2199 (This is their showroom firm bed, 2499 with the 9" foundation)
5" of 36 ILD (bottom)
3" of 28 ILD (middle)
1.5" of 24 LD (top)

Model 1: 8" $2024 (This was his offered customization to achieve a shorter overall height with the standard 9" foundation, which totalled 2200. I actually think he means $1900 here instead of 2024, because at the bottom of his email to me he specifically says the 4" foundation is $300, and he specifically offered me this bed for $2200 WITH foundation) (If this option were selected I would remind him of the quoted $2200 dollar total with foundation)
6" 36 ILD (bottom)
2" 24 ILD (top)

Model 2: 10"$1874 (This is the second and last custom option he offered me where he suggested adding slats, putting down 3/8 plywood and covering it with a cheap king sheet, and putting this mattress right on the plywood with no box or foundation at all. He quoted me $1850 for this bed, not $1875. I have it written on a business card.)
2" 1.8 density polyurethane (bottom)
6" 36 ILD (middle)
1.5" 24 ILD (top)

So, thats the jist of his offer. The seemingly most interesting to us is the last option what he calls Model 2 for $1850. I can understand him mis emailing me the slightly wrong price because hes the owner and calculated the price right on the fly with a calculator, no pricing sheets to go by and he probably forgot exactly what he calculated.
Not a big deal on that.

Again, any of these above, he offered to cut 3% if I didn’t use a cc. And I can pisk it up and he cant take the sales tax from me for SC.

So, based on that what do you think?

We are planning to go by Southern bedding of columbia after work today, and if time allows, Best Mattress in Columbia after that. I’ll report our findings.

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

That helps to clarify things a bit more although I think the first two may be reversed (the Performance latex would be softer than the Blue Heaven).

The performance latex has more latex so the higher cost would certainly be justified.

The next step would be to narrow down these choices (in discussion with Alan) to one out of the four taking into account the differences in how they feel (or in the case of the two you haven’t tested how they may feel in theory).

Once you have done this then I would make final choices between the different manufacturers.

I would also bear in mind that slightly firmer would be easier to fine tune than slightly softer because it’s easier to soften a mattress that is too firm (with mattress pad or topper) than it is to make a mattress that is too soft (either in the comfort or support layers) firmer.

I would consider 1.8 lb polyfoam to be a suitable grade of polyfoam to be used in the bottom layers of a quality mattress and wouldn’t consider it to be a “weak link”. It would be a suitable way to add some thickness at a lower cost without a significant performance tradeoff.

My sense is that you are leaning towards the Model 2 which would be the firmest of the untested options and firmer than any of the others except the showroom firm mattress which has the 36 ILD latex on top. Is this correct?

In this case … then this is the Dilworth option I would compare to your other options.

The only other thing I should mention … even though different manufacturers have different thoughts about this … is that if I had the choice I would place the mattress directly on slats (with closely spaced gaps) with a layer of fabric on top (to protect the mattress) but this would be assuming that the slats were well supported and didn’t have any flex. Gaps between the slats in the range of 2 - 3" would be ideal. This way the mattress could ventilate better than on a plywood sheet which can slightly reduce the risk of trapped moisture between the mattress and the plywood and the potential mold, mildew, and dust mite issues that go with higher humidity levels.

Hope this helps.

I’m looking forward to the “final showdown”

Phoenix

[Rhizzlebop]

Great info Phoenix and you are correct about our preference to this point.

Here is what we found tonight.

We went to the Southern bedding of Columbia tonight as well as best mattress of Columbia.

First at southern bedding of cola, Karen was very nice but not dialed into her latex product. She only offered one bed model in latex.
This bed had a 36 ild 6" core, and a 3" layer of what she said was 21-25 ild, and what she called a super soft layer on top that was 1.5" of 15-19 ild.
I had to ask her to look up these values as she initially just referred to them as medium, soft, super soft. After I pressed or values she pulled her records in a file and read me those values. I’m slightly concerned that these values were offered as a range. I would think its either a 15 or a 19, a 21, or a 25. Not a range or those layers.
Said she buys from latex international in Georgia. I asked if she knew her natural to synthetic blend % and she did not know and said the paperwork did nt tell her that info. She said she coud customize her layers and order whattever thickness of cover she needed.

The offering I described that was on her floor was too soft for me. If you kept her 36 base and firmed up the top layers it could be much better.

If her latex is good quality product, her value could be very high as the model on the floor, mattress only was 1350, and with the foundation,(which had height options ) was 1550.
If it would be similarly priced with firm mid layer and 24 ild top layer it would be very similar o the dilworth at a significant savings.

She admitted she only offered one model on the floor and said its softness was what “they suggested” so she suggested we look around and she would quote layers of our choice if we found out what we wanted.

We then went to best mattress here in Columbia.

As you might expect, he too offered a little different twist.
This store was big on varying the core firmness, and only putting the thick quilted poly foam topson both top and bottom making them two sided. We looked at 4 bed models here, I will summarize below. 3 were as described, and be was a hybrid different bed with micro coils in it. See below

Option A. Had a 6" 32ild core, and a 1.5" 1.8 density poly foam fill pillow top style thing on top and Bottom.
This bed was way too soft. OUT!

Option B. had a 6" 36 ild core and 1.5" 1.8 density poly fill pillow top style thing on top and bottom.
Nice but still was too soft for me. Also eliminated as it was just too soft

Option c. Had a 40 ild core and 1.5". 1.8 density poly fill pillowop style top and bottom.
This one was pretty good but the poly fill at 1.5 " I think was a hair much. Overall. Solid bed. This one was 2400 wih base. I think he valued the bases at 300 and he could vary the height of the base as needed

Option D was a hybrid bed. He said it had a 2" base foam, and then t had a micro coil system in it, and then it had a 2" layer of 24 ild latex. And then it had a 1" poly fill quilted op on it. This one was 2500. Same base pricing and heights. It was about 12.5" overall n height. This bed felt nice because my fiancé thought it felt soft( likely due to the top 3" of the 24 ild and poly fill layers)
I however liked the initial softness, but felt like on my stomach I set of rested my weight down through those soft top layers and really felt te firmness to be very apprent just below he surface. I could angle those soft relatively thin top layers, and liked the underlying firmness, and I think I could even handle The firmness bein just ever do slightly less firm.

Option E. this was a made of theoretical bed we discussed based on my feelings and our talk about option D. We talked about doing a 40 ild core to get a similarly firm core layer to the micro spring, and then doing a 24 ild 2" thick on top of the core. and then doing a 1" thick poly fill quilting ( because I mentioned I would rather not have more than 1" of poly fill that I know is going to compress and lose fluff eventually.
He quoted this assembly at 2700 with foundation.

I’m curious to know what bedding of Columbia would quote me to order a 40 ild core, put a 3" 24 on it and maybe top it with a quilted layer( if she buys the tops with quilted poly fill) or maybe just look at a 40 core and the 24 ild on top and (since her offering above seemed to be at a great price, if her materials are up o par) and optionally add my own pillowop to it. ( the dilworth guy suggested a high quality feather top can be had for around $150 and can be refluffed and make a firm bed optionally softer).

All the quilted tops at best mattress were cotton I’m pretty sure. Haven’t seen any wool ones here.

So I hope all of that isn’t too complicated. It’s basically the one from dilworth, we liked the micro coil hybrid at best mattress but don’t want to spend 2500 if possible. And we are thinking if we could get edding of Columbia to quote something similar to dilworths, or similar to the theoretical option E at best mattress. I just don’t know if her materials are up to par and she seems to not be in tune with the product

Thoughts?

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

I had to ask her to look up these values as she initially just referred to them as medium, soft, super soft. After I pressed or values she pulled her records in a file and read me those values. I’m slightly concerned that these values were offered as a range. I would think its either a 15 or a 19, a 21, or a 25. Not a range or those layers.

Actually a range is a more accurate way of expressing ILD than a single number.

Blended Talalay latex is the most consistent but measured in several places over the surface of a layer and then these measurements are averaged and “rated” as the closest rating number to the average. It could be =/- 2 or thereabouts over the entire surface of the mattress.

100% natural Talalay has an even wider ILD range because it can’t be made with as consistent an ILD as Blended (it’s not as even and smooth when its poured).

Dunlop latex has the widest range of all and can vary by around =/- 4 over the surface of the layer and in addition to this … Dunlop is softer on the top and firmer on the bottom of a 6" core so a 3" piece cut from the top of a 6" core can be softer than a 3" piece cut from the bottom of the same core even though they both carry the same rating as the core itself.

Fortunately … differences of less than about 4 ILD or so are not that significant and most people wouldn’t notice.

Said she buys from latex international in Georgia. I asked if she knew her natural to synthetic blend % and she did not know and said the paperwork did nt tell her that info. She said she coud customize her layers and order whattever thickness of cover she needed.

Blended Talalay from Latex international is about 70% SBR (synthetic rubber) and 30% NR (natural rubber). Radium also makes Talalay latex and also has about a 70/30 blend.

If her latex is good quality product, her value could be very high as the model on the floor, mattress only was 1350, and with the foundation,(which had height options ) was 1550.
If it would be similarly priced with firm mid layer and 24 ild top layer it would be very similar o the dilworth at a significant savings.

She admitted she only offered one model on the floor and said its softness was what “they suggested” so she suggested we look around and she would quote layers of our choice if we found out what we wanted.

This may be a worthwhile option to consider. I haven’t had the chance to talk with them so I’m grateful for your feedback. It seems that they are less knowledgeable about latex but have good value.

As you might expect, he too offered a little different twist.
This store was big on varying the core firmness, and only putting the thick quilted poly foam topson both top and bottom making them two sided. We looked at 4 bed models here, I will summarize below. 3 were as described, and be was a hybrid different bed with micro coils in it. See below

this is a fairly common type of design that is used by many manufacturers. The key with this IMO is to make sure that the quilting layers of polyfoam are not too thick although 1.8 lb polyfoam is better than average quality compared to what is often used in the upper (or outer in the case of two sided mattresses) layers. these types of design will also often have a box spring base rather than a firm foundation to provide some extra “give” under the mattress.

Option D was a hybrid bed. He said it had a 2" base foam, and then t had a micro coil system in it, and then it had a 2" layer of 24 ild latex. And then it had a 1" poly fill quilted op on it. This one was 2500. Same base pricing and heights. It was about 12.5" overall n height. This bed felt nice because my fiancé thought it felt soft( likely due to the top 3" of the 24 ild and poly fill layers) I however liked the initial softness, but felt like on my stomach I set of rested my weight down through those soft top layers and really felt te firmness to be very apprent just below he surface. I could angle those soft relatively thin top layers, and liked the underlying firmness, and I think I could even handle The firmness bein just ever do slightly less firm.

Microcoils can be very comfortable and they are also quite a durable component. There are quite a few manufacturers I like that have them as an option … some better value than others. With 2" of soft latex and an inch of softer quilting foam though i can see that it was on the soft side for you.

Option E. this was a made of theoretical bed we discussed based on my feelings and our talk about option D. We talked about doing a 40 ild core to get a similarly firm core layer to the micro spring, and then doing a 24 ild 2" thick on top of the core. and then doing a 1" thick poly fill quilting ( because I mentioned I would rather not have more than 1" of poly fill that I know is going to compress and lose fluff eventually.
He quoted this assembly at 2700 with foundation.

This also seems like a reasonable option but as you mentioned the costs here are a little on the high side.

I’m curious to know what bedding of Columbia would quote me to order a 40 ild core, put a 3" 24 on it and maybe top it with a quilted layer( if she buys the tops with quilted poly fill) or maybe just look at a 40 core and the 24 ild on top and (since her offering above seemed to be at a great price, if her materials are up o par) and optionally add my own pillowop to it. ( the dilworth guy suggested a high quality feather top can be had for around $150 and can be refluffed and make a firm bed optionally softer).

I would personally tend to avoid the quilted layer and as Alan mentioned I would add my own less resilient topper if necessary (featherbed or wool for example)

The materials would be high quality (there are only two companies that make talalay and both are high quality) but as you mentioned they don’t seem to specialize in or be as knowledgeable about latex.

Overall … you have some very good choices available to you and unlike so many others across the country … your biggest challenge may be narrowing them down to one at each place and then one overall. It’s not a bad place to be though

When I bought my last mattress … the hardest part for me was eliminating some very good choices and narrowing everything down to one. It took me weeks of “agonizing” over small details and going back and forth. “Value” wasn’t really an issue because they all had good value in their own way. At least when you are down to final choices that are “all good” … it’s difficult to make a “bad” choice but I do understand how difficult this can be.

Thanks too for your ongoing feedback. It’s been very detailed and informative and I know will help others in the same area down the road as well.

Phoenix

[Rhizzlebop]

Phoenix, again, tremendous feedback! thank you

So, I’m glad to hear that you did not sense any major red flags from being told a firmness range from bedding of columbia.

With that in mind, I’m thinking of asking bedding of columbia to quote me a bed with 6" of 36 ild, 2" of 24 ild, and probably with some 1.8 density base foam of 2 -4" to get the bed up to about a foot.
May ask her to quote the same with a 40 ild core.

Any opinions on those 2 and if I’d see a huge difference in firmness between them? Most comparable to the micro spring?

Do you have any recommendations for a nice feather top? I actually have enjoyed the previous memory foam toppers I had on my inner spring and wouldn’t mind a nice, but thin memory foam topper on it, but I HATE how they never fit the bed correctly and always sit, slightly smaller than the bed, just below the sheets. If I could find one that fit correctly, or tapered down at the edge that would be nice.

based on what she tells me, I think it would come down to the Dilworth custom 36 ild core with a 24 ild 1.5" layer plus a base foam, vs the above from bedding of columbia.

I liked the micro spring design with 2" ild and 1" polyfill topped bed at best mattress but I don’t feel the value there at 2500 dollars.

Dilworth came out to $1850 for the custom mattress only, no sc sales tax collected, + I have to go get it, and put down plywood and more slats. dilworth offered 3% off for paying by check. wonder if he might go lower.

if bedding of columbias quote came out similar to her bed on the floor (that was too soft), then around 1350 for the mattresst + sc tax 7% plus free delivery i believe, I can certainly pick it up for pennies.
bedding of columbia hasn’t offered anything off, but would probably do at least the same.

Would there be any value in calling her up down there since you know your stuff, and be sure she is using the materials she says she is using? are you familiar with a georgia based supplier of telalay? last, if her stuff is 70% synthetic, and 30% natural, would that be significantly less quality than dilworths 60% natural 40% synthetic? its a 30% swing there.

Sorry for all the questions, but we are close to an move being made and get this done.

Overall, I feel like I LIKE the soft top layer, and feeling like I “lay down through the soft layers, and feel the firm under it” while my lighter weight fiance mainly just feels the soft top layers and just a smidge of the under lying firm.

thanks so much.

EDIT: Update: I forgot to mention. The core from bedding of columbia is what she calls a 7 zone. She stated the following

7 zones-We reference this core as the average of 32 ild with density 4.4-4.7lbs.
Medium: 31 center, 33 lumbar areas, 27 shoulders & 29 head/foot

That may be standard for all “32 ild cores”. Not sure if thats something unique or not.
She sent me this info when I requested her to quote with 36 and 40 ild cores.
She sent me a PDF that talks about the details. Says it creats the firmness zones by bending edges (?).
Also indicates this one is the firmest of the 3 levels listed on the pdf at an average of 4.4 lb density.
(Not sure if this is a whole different core technology, and all she can get, or if the others are the same, just more firm, or maybe she can get the more firm ones.)

I understand there is a natural range, but shes indicating they have dialed it in for each area of the bed.

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

Any opinions on those 2 and if I’d see a huge difference in firmness between them? Most comparable to the micro spring?

There probably wouldn’t be that much difference between them although the one with the base foam would be a little softer (the mattress would be thicker and the bottom 2" would be softer than the floor).

As far as comparing microcoils and latex … it really is an apples to oranges comparison and would also depend on the other layers in the mattress which are part of how much of the “microcoil” feeling will come through. In the end it would be based more on the subjective perceptions of each individual which can vary from person to person.

I liked the micro spring design with 2" ild and 1" polyfill topped bed at best mattress but I don’t feel the value there at 2500 dollars.

Microcoils are a good component but it would start getting far too complex and probably confusing to try comparing apples to oranges or “designing” in a different component completely at another manufacturers who doesn’t normally supply them and then trying to predict how it would feel for any particular person with all the different combinations involved (materials above and below the microcoils and differences in various microcoils themselves). If they are not normally available from a particular place … I would tend to limit my choices at each place to what they normally have available. In other words … the “feel” and performance of a mattress depends on all the components and how they interact together not just on any particular one.

Do you have any recommendations for a nice feather top? I actually have enjoyed the previous memory foam toppers I had on my inner spring and wouldn’t mind a nice, but thin memory foam topper on it, but I HATE how they never fit the bed correctly and always sit, slightly smaller than the bed, just below the sheets. If I could find one that fit correctly, or tapered down at the edge that would be nice.

No … there are hundreds if not thousands or different products available and I personally wouldn’t tend towards feathers anyway. There are many other choices of foam or fiber that would also be suitable (lower resilience materials of various types). In any case … I would first buy the mattress and sleep on it and then use your actual experience with the mattress to decide on any possible fine tuning that may be needed rather than trying to include two variables in your decision (unless you have tested them specifically together). Post #10 here and some of the links in it may help you in terms of materials, post #4 here has some of the better sources I know for toppers, and post #3 here has some of the better sources for wool mattress pads and toppers but I would completely leave this till after you have slept on the mattress and have a better baseline for how you may want to fine tune it. There are also many memory foam toppers which are cut to full size rather than a little short in width or length.

Would there be any value in calling her up down there since you know your stuff, and be sure she is using the materials she says she is using? are you familiar with a georgia based supplier of telalay? last, if her stuff is 70% synthetic, and 30% natural, would that be significantly less quality than dilworths 60% natural 40% synthetic? its a 30% swing there.

Unfortunately I don’t have the time available to work with people on an individual basis beyond the help I can provide on the forum and I would quickly be overwhelmed. I much prefer to have each person deal with the local manufacturers or retailers directly and my role is to gradually identify better possibilities in each area to work with rather than helping with more specific or individual issues.

Talalay latex is only made by two manufacturers … Latex International and Radium and the blend for both of them is about 70/30 synthetic/natural and I would call both of them good quality/value (many sites list the Radium as a 60/40 blend but this isn’t correct). Both are available through various sources but in her case it’s Latex International. In an apples to apples comparison (thickness, design etc) I wouldn’t pay a significant premium for one over the other although some manufacturers prefer one over the other for various reasons.

[quote]Sorry for all the questions, but we are close to an move being made and get this done.

Overall, I feel like I LIKE the soft top layer, and feeling like I “lay down through the soft layers, and feel the firm under it” while my lighter weight fiance mainly just feels the soft top layers and just a smidge of the under lying firm.[/quote]

No problem at all. Just remember though that my role is not to make final decisions or design mattress for people based on theory but to help them get to a place where all their choices are good ones and then get out of the way. so that the final choices are based on their own value equation rather than mine. Your next step is to narrow down your choices to one at each outlet (based on yoru personal testing and your conversations with each one) and then look at the pros and cons of each to make the best possible choice based on your specific value equation. Finding the one that is “best” is not a specific objective process but a process that takes into account “gut feelings” and all the many objective, subjective, and intangible differences between each choice you have. Trying to define the “best for you” in only objective ways (or only on price) or based only on the “commodity value” of each mattress would become overwhelmingly confusing and probably impossible.

If you particularly prefer microcoils over other materials for example … then I would ask yourself whether it’s worth the extra price for the specific choices you have available in terms of better PPP (based on your own personal experience not on “theory”). If it is then you would be limited to the mattresses that used them in your final choices. If not … then I would exclude it.

You are in a place where you have good options to choose from and once you have narrowed down your choices to one at each place (and your confidence with the guidance of each is part of the intangibles that are part of the “value” of every mattress purchase) then you can make your final choice. Trying to incorporate too much “theory” into the process or trying to include too many options (especially ones you haven’t tested in person) will tend to make your choices much too confusing and can sometimes lead to “paralysis by analysis” because you won’t have the specific context and experience to choose between them based on your own perceptions on each mattress.

Phoenix

[Rhizzlebop]

Phoenix. I’m waiting for some more optioned info back from bedding of Columbia But at he bottom of my last post I noted what she sent me about her core. I’ll copy here.

"EDIT: Update: I forgot to mention. The core from bedding of columbia is what she calls a 7 zone. She stated the following

7 zones-We reference this core as the average of 32 ild with density 4.4-4.7lbs.
Medium: 31 center, 33 lumbar areas, 27 shoulders & 29 head/foot

That may be standard for all “32 ild cores”. Not sure if thats something unique or not.
She sent me this info when I requested her to quote with 36 and 40 ild cores.
She sent me a PDF that talks about the details. Says it creats the firmness zones by bending edges (?).
Also indicates this one is the firmest of the 3 levels listed on the pdf at an average of 4.4 lb density.
(Not sure if this is a whole different core technology, and all she can get, or if the others are the same, just more firm, or maybe she can get the more firm ones.)

I understand there is a natural range, but shes indicating they have dialed it in for each area of the bed."

Does this sound like some kind of non standard core offering I maybe should shy off f or consider it possibly superior?
Not sure yet if he will come back and say she can get the stiffer core or not. I’ll keep you posted.

Also. I know m pestering you a ton and you don’t know me or owe me anything. I sincerely hope you are gaining some valuable knowledge from my research efforts.

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

[quote]"EDIT: Update: I forgot to mention. The core from bedding of columbia is what she calls a 7 zone. She stated the following

7 zones-We reference this core as the average of 32 ild with density 4.4-4.7lbs.
Medium: 31 center, 33 lumbar areas, 27 shoulders & 29 head/foot[/quote]

This would generally (but not always) indicate that it is a Dunlop latex core which is much more commonly seen in a 7 zone version than Talalay latex.

While the zones may be somewhat of an “overkill” situation (you can see more of my thoughts about zoning in this article) … it also isn’t a “bad” thing either and if it matched your needs and preferences then it would be fine and it would be an advantage or disadvantage to the degree that it makes a difference for you that you can feel and how much it affects the price. Keep in mind that Dunlop will have a different feel than Talalay and you may prefer one over the other. The zones themselves generally mean that the core is firmer under the heavier areas of the body and softer under the lighter parts of the body that need to sink in more and in some cases this can be an advantage in more “difficult” situations where more softness under wider lighter areas are needed and more firmness is needed under heavier narrower areas to maintain good alighment. As in all things … if your testing indicates it is an improvement over an unzoned core … then it is a benefit for you. The zoning variation itself is probably withing the natural variation of a Dunlop core but it would still be softer overall in certain areas than in others. You can see an example of a seven zoned Dunlop latex mattress at Ikea here for example. The quality of the material itself is always the most important in terms of quality/value and benefits like layering and zoning which provides the balance of comfort and support that “matches” the mattress to the needs and preferences of each person are what I call “comfort specs” which are unique to each person and best evaluated in person. They are not a part of quality/value in the sense of "better worse but of course they are part of the value of a specific mattress in terms of its suitability and how well it performs for a particular person.

Also. I know m pestering you a ton and you don’t know me or owe me anything. I sincerely hope you are gaining some valuable knowledge from my research efforts.

I don’t think there’s any such thing as “pestering” and as you mention … feedback from different areas from forum members is always valuable to other forum members who will be here in the future and builds the value of the forum itself. While there are many questions that are always better directed to the manufacturer or retailer themselves and there may be limitations on the degree of specificity that may be possible or even useful with certain questions … I’m always happy to answer any questions that I can.

Phoenix

[Rhizzlebop]

So, we have been trying to get bedding of Columbia to quote what we wanted which was a base foam, a 36 ild core, and a 2" 24 ild topper. Both layers in telalay.
She seems to be coming up empty, at least with her first two suppliers. They all can offer her the Dunlop core, but not telalay.
She is trying one more supplier and is supposed to get back with me.

She does have a seemingly pretty good price on the foundations. A king for 195 and I can get 3" or 4" which I think Iill need

Night before last I decided to call up sleepez.com and talk to them.
Spoke with Shawn. He seems super knowledgable and helpful.

He asked our proportions and I told him 6’3 235. And 5’10 150. I told him I was a stomach sleeper and she was a side sleeper mostly.
I had wanted to discuss their 7000 lime thinking we could put something together very similar to the dilworth bed" just with a shallower “core”.

Shawn was quick to suggest the 10000 bed. (I guess I should expect that since he is selling these beds).

He said the three layers allowed for the most flexibility.
I told him about the dilworth bed we liked and how it was a 36 ild core with a 1.5" layer of 24 ild on top. Both telalay layers.

He interestingly mentioned that having a layer of latex too soft, would let me over compress it and it would break down that layer of foam a lot faster. I had not thought of over compressing the latex.
For our proportions he suggested my side to go (top to bottom) med, firm, extra firm. For her side he suggested we go soft, med firm,
Then of course the bed has an inch of poly and wool up on top under the organic cotton cover to make it a 10" bed.

He said this would allow the most flexibility. He asked that we please try it for 30 nights without messing with it and then after I could try the soft layer if I wanted and then swap it via their 30 dollar exchange program.

Before talking to him, I would have gotten a soft top and maybe two firm layers under it.

What are your thoughts on this? I guess I could create that by borrowing layers from my fiancé for a couple nights to see if I like that better.

With the 5% off and free shipping it would be very close to the same price as the current leader of our choices. Except this one can really be softer for her and firmer for me.

We are pretty close tO pulling the trigger some way or the other.

[phoenix]

Hi Rhizzlebop,

Night before last I decided to call up sleepez.com and talk to them.
Spoke with Shawn. He seems super knowledgable and helpful.

He asked our proportions and I told him 6’3 235. And 5’10 150. I told him I was a stomach sleeper and she was a side sleeper mostly.
I had wanted to discuss their 7000 lime thinking we could put something together very similar to the dilworth bed" just with a shallower “core”.

Shawn was quick to suggest the 10000 bed. (I guess I should expect that since he is selling these beds).

I have seen Shawn “downsell” as much as “upsell” and his suggestions are based on what he thinks would be most appropriate. I would have made the same suggestion (based on thinking that “on average” 6" of latex would not be enough for you based on your weight).

He interestingly mentioned that having a layer of latex too soft, would let me over compress it and it would break down that layer of foam a lot faster. I had not thought of over compressing the latex.
For our proportions he suggested my side to go (top to bottom) med, firm, extra firm. For her side he suggested we go soft, med firm,
Then of course the bed has an inch of poly and wool up on top under the organic cotton cover to make it a 10" bed.

Yes … softness is one of the durability factors and softer latex will soften faster than firmer latex … especially under the strain of heavier weights. The softening of thinner layers will have less effect on the overall mattress than the softening of thicker layers although they will be less durable (because they are being compressed to a greater percentage of their thickness). Their mattress doesn’t have any polyfoam and is quilted with wool.

As you can see though, there are many different roads to Rome (layering combinations which can lead to a similar outcome) and each person’s individual preferences may make “averages” less meaningful.

What are your thoughts on this? I guess I could create that by borrowing layers from my fiancé for a couple nights to see if I like that better.

As far as comfort choices … I would always go with the best suggestions of a manufacturer unless there is a pareticularly compelling reason to do otherwise. They are the ones that know their options best and how each may fit different people “on average” more than anyone else. As far as SleepEz itself goes … they are a member here which means I believe they are among the best quality/value in the country. As you mentioned … you can also “borrow” layers from the other side for testing which is one of the benefits of split layering.

We are pretty close tO pulling the trigger some way or the other.

You certainly have some good options and while I always leave final decisions to each member (because all the objective, subjective, and intangible factors can be unique to each person) … it’s always great when none of your options are bad ones. The only other thing I would consider is to add a little extra “value” to a local choice (assuming it is an apples to apples comparison) that you have tested in person.

Phoenix