Hi, Iām Ron and new hereā¦Iām looking at the iComfort memory foam beds and am wondering if you know where I can get it at a discount, or a very similar bed (adjustable/wireless) at equal or lesser value than the iComfort in or around Indianapolis, IN?
Thanks!
Hi Ron ā¦ and welcome,
As you probably know from this thread ā¦ I consider the iComfort to have poor value (as are most of the national brands compared to other higher quality less expensive choices made by independent manufacturers). In the same way, the adjustable base that is sold with it is also significantly more than other almost identical options although they do have a matching cover and a zipper attachment which others donāt have. For reference ā¦ the best prices I have seen for the major brands of adjustable bases are here so you can have a comparison before deciding whether it is worth purchasing the iComfort motion perfect base.
In terms of the mattress itself ā¦ I normally recommend looking at local manufacturers for the best quality and value mattresses. For those who donāt have a local manufacturer near enough to where they live, then ālay on mattressā testing done locally to find out the materials and layering of mattresses that best suits your needs and preferences can serve as a blueprint for an online purchase from a factory direct outlet which can help you to āduplicateā the type and layering of mattress you prefer.
Your better choices in the Indianapolis area are listed in post #2 here
I would certainly tend to avoid the Mattress World, Mattress Firm, American Mattress type of outlets that are quite common in your area and typically sell national brands which have much lower quality and value and who do everything they can to discourage comparative shopping based on actual materials in a mattress.
Some online memory foam mattress choices are in this thread.
Hope this helps.
Phoenix
Wow! :slaphead: I wish I woud have found this site before buying our mattress! We just bought a second home in AZ and while I am experiencing buyerās remorse, I do have a small silver lining. I am within the ā60 day comfort guaranteeā and want to return my mattress. Problem is that I can not āreturnā it for my money back just return it for a different name band mattress. We are considering the iComfort for no other reason other that they sell it there.
Any suggestions on other name brand mattresses that I wonāt want to throw out my window after a year?
Also, interestingly enough we also need a new mattress in our primary home in NH and was wondering if you have suggestions for manufacturers in that state!
Thank you so much in advance! Your information is invaluable!
Hi LiLiBug,
Itās too bad about the Arizona situation because AZ has some very high quality and great value mattress manufacturers. If you let me know the name of the store though, ā¦ Iād be happy to take a look and see what they have that IMO may have better value.
There are not a lot of great options in NH but here are a few ā¦ and if you are close enough to another state like MA to make a drive worthwhile, then there may be other options as well.
http://www.sunsetmattressfactory.com/index.htm Ossipee. Independent factory direct manufacturer that makes some āold styleā and good quality innerspring/cotton mattresses with working box springs that are good value.
Milford. Retail direct outlet. Carries several memory foam and latex options from Therapedic which may have better than average quality and value.
Various NH and MA outlets. Retail direct outlet for Jordans Mattress Factory which has their own house brand (I would ignore the major brands they carry). Their memory foam mattress descriptions donāt say the type of memory foam or density but the polyfoam used in the support core is a lower density/quality (1.6 lbs) than is usually used. Their latex over polyfoam mattress uses better quality poly under the latex but doesnāt give the type or layer thickness of the latex which would be important to know (so you know that itās not just a meaningless layer hidden between other layers of cheaper foam).
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Post #4 here has a larger list centered in the Merrimack, NH area (including these three).
If a quality mattress that fits your needs and preferences and has good value is not available locally, ā¦ then the mattresses that you have tested and provide the best combination of pressure relief, sleeping alignment, and your preferences can be used as a āguidelineā for an online purchase which may have much better value than what is available locally.
Phoenix
Thanks Phoenix! It is Sleep America and I can not say that they havenāt been extremely helpful and willing in taking our mattress back! Very accomidating!
We like the feel of the iComfort so something comparable would be nice. Also how can I negotiate the best price if in fact an iComfort is our only option?
Thank you so much, you really do provide a great source of reference!
Thanks again Phoenix,
I am probably going with the latex however one question that I was unsure of, is there a difference in latex that has deep quilting vs no quilting at all? I saw on sleepez site they have quilted latex. When I talked to Henry he had quilted latex as well but informed me that he was moving away from it because it takes away from the overall feel of the latex. Is that correct? or should i get the latex quilted?
Also the one I am looking at from flexus is their 9 inch latex, 6inch dunlop with 3 inch talalay. not sure if their latex is 100% natural or blended.
but sleepez has the Select Sleep Latex Mattress 8500 for the same price as what flexus is sellingā¦should sleepez be a better choice since it is the same price and its more customizeable? flexus comfort glues their pieces together so there is no exchanging. is it bad that sleep ez dont glue their pieces and it could start to move around?
sorry for the numerous questions but i am about to pull the trigger on the bed.
-lisa
Hi lasdj,
Quilting over latex can certainly affect the feel of latex in several ways depending on the type of quilting and its thickness and the tightness of the quilt and the ticking.
In general, the softer the latex underneath, the more the quilt will affect its ability to conform to your body profile and relieve pressure.
If the quilt is made with fibers like wool or synthetic fibers, then as they compress, they can get firmer and also slightly interfere with the ability of the latex to compress and take on your body shape. This can cause some pressure issues over time in some while for others, it can help with alignment as they can benefit from sinking in slightly less.
They can also make a mattress with slightly firmer latex on top feel slightly softer and they (especially some soft polyfoam) give a āhand feelā (the feel of the top of the mattress when its pressed in a bit) and a ālookā that people are more used to.
In some mattresses ā¦ the wool can also be used as a method of fire retardancy instead of other methods like a āsockā or various other ācompoundsā or chemicals which are added to fabric or foam to pass the fire regulations.
Finally, most fibers (especially natural ones) are quite breathable and can help to regulate sleeping temperature staying cooler in summer and warmer in winter. They are often added to a mattress or a mattress protector or pad for this reason.
All in all, it is a series of tradeoffs that can benefit some and detract for others. Either way they will certainly affect how the mattress as a whole performs.
If a mattress is finished without a zipper ticking ā¦ then a quilting on top cannot be removed or exchanged and IMO ā¦ any wool or other fiber that is added would be better added in the form of a mattress protector or pad as this would allow the protector or pad to be exchanged if necessary. If it has a zipper cover, then the cover can be exchanged if necessary. All of these āticking/quiltingā adjustments and choices can āfine tuneā the performance and feel of a mattress.
The āsafestā bet if you have tested mattresses with a certain layering without a quilt would be to add any wool as a mattress protector. The trend ā¦ with good reason ā¦ is towards latex mattresses with soft latex and a thick stretchy ticking material on top rather than other materials (such as wool or polyfoam quilting) which can affect the feel of the soft latex. Having said this ā¦ as long as the quilting material is ātaken into accountā in terms of how it will affect a mattress, then it may still be a preference for some. Of course the choice of ticking/quilting materials can also affect the price of a mattress, not just its feel, as the ticking quilting is a significant part of the cost and the materials used in it vary widely in their cost.
If you have tested a mattress with a 3" comfort layer and it worked for pressure relief for your height/weight and sleeping position, then that āpoints toā that thickness being good for you. If you were to consider other options, then it too should have a similar thickness and ILD of comfort layer (or the other layers of the mattress should be adjusted to accommodate a thinner layer). The 8500 has a 1.5" comfort layer and so is a very different mattress and not really comparable to the one you are testing at Flexus. The 10000 (with a 3" comfort layer) and built with similar lower layers would be much more directly comparable in terms of its construction.
If you have tested a mattress correctly for pressure relief and alignment in real life ā¦ this is far more accurate than the ātheoryā of an online purchase even with layer exchanges. While a DIY yourself mattress is a great way to construct a mattress when there is not something locally to actually test or that has good value, it can also be confusing if layers need to be exchanged in terms of deciding which layers to exchange and what should replace what. Even here ā¦ local testing used as a blueprint is I believe very important.
My own mattress purchase for example was a āfinishedā mattress with the layers glued together that had no real possibility of a comfort exchange (because it would have involved very large shipping costs) but I had done enough testing to know for sure exactly how every layer of the mattress would interact with each other and with me and my DH. For most who may not be quite as certain as I was of how every layer and ticking/quilting choice would affect their mattress and how it worked for them, this would have involved a huge risk.
In general, I would always choose a high quality/value mattress that I have personally tested over a DIY choice if the value (based in materials used and mattress construction) was roughly similar (within say 20%). If the value of a DIY that was similar to what you were testing was significantly better ā¦ then I would choose this as the ābestā option.
For those who do not have a factory direct manufacturer or other high value retail direct outlet close to them that is high quality/value, then an online purchase that can be adjusted through a layer exchange or through a complete mattress exchange at low cost would normally be the ābestā choice. This would normally involve using local mattresses as a blueprint for the initial choices of materials, layering, and construction from the online source.
If a layered mattress is put together in a ticking that āfitsā then the lack of gluing will not be an issue as latex doesnāt tend to shift in use unless the whole mattress is moved in which case itās easy to align again. Gluing layers together or not though can change the feel and interaction of the layers.
Feel free to keep any questions coming as they hopefully will not only help you but many others who are facing the same choices 
Phoenix
Wow thats a great explanation and I am more at least purchasing the one from flexus. They were very helpful and will go with them. I will probably place the order later this week. Your entire website is very educational and perfect for anyone that has no idea what to expect. After scouring through your site I am not confident with my choices. I will report back after I get the mattress to report any issues or praises.
Thanks again Phoenix!
Hi Phoenix!
Your site is really helpful. Did you get my post about Sleep America? What do you think?
@Phoenix, thanks for your insight here. I have had a memory foam mattress for the last six years. The valleys created in the areas where my wife and I sleep are unbearable. The first couple of years were great, but now, we are in the market for another bed, but donāt want to repeat this same (costly) mistake again in five years. I like the idea of a foam and/or latex mattress, but donāt want to make the same mistake. The Sleep Innovations mattresses on Amazon get good ratings, but my wife wants to ātry before we buy.ā Tough to do on Amazon. I just want a good night sleep again.
Doug
Hi LiLiBug,
Now its my turn to slap my head ā¦ sorry I must have skipped past it.
In looking at the Sleep America site ā¦ they carry Sealy, Serta, Simmons, Stearns & Foster (Sealy), Kingsdown, Tempurpedic and Europa (made by IBC) ā¦ all of which are top ten brands which I would tend to avoid as they typically have lower value than smaller local manufacturers or even regional or smaller national brands.
Of these ā¦ I would probably look at the Europa line here to see if there is anything comparable in feel as they may have better value and materials ā¦ although they too tend to put too much polyfoam on top of many of their mattresses. The Europa is also pocket coils rather than memory foam over polyfoam so the overall feel of the mattress will be different (which you may like more or less).
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In terms of negotiating ā¦ the iComfort will likely have little to no negotiating room as the prices are pretty much standardized by Serta and there is little benefit to selling it based on cheaper prices because it is very popular at the moment. The IBC may have more negotiation room but negotiating is a little more difficult when they already have your money 
The initial ānegotiating stanceā I would take is to ask for a refund as an exception because there isnāt another mattress in the store that you really want (even if it costs you a few hundred in fees or costs you will come out ahead by starting over again). If that proves impossible as a āhigher up decisionā exception ā¦ then I would ask them for the layer by layer spec sheets of every mattress you are considering to āproveā to you that none of them have more than an inch of soft polyfoam in the comfort layers (and preferably none) and so you can know the density of any memory foam you are considering exchanging for. Tell them that you really donāt want anything with low density memory foam in it either and that you want to know the exact density of every layer in the mattress (or type and ILD of any latex) so you can check on the quality of foam used. You can mention that you have been learning about the different types of foams and you can mention that you are aware of the durability issues connected with lower quality polyfoam and memory foam even though it may feel great at first. The goal here is to either know exactly what you are exchanging for or make it āeasierā for them to lose you as a customer than keep you.
If they agree o a refund ā¦ thatās the best case. If they show you the specs, then it is likely that at least you will know what you are exchanging for and it will be easier to choose the best value/durability mattress (likely a Europa). If they donāt agree ā¦ then I would do everything I could to persist and go āup the lineā as far as you could before agreeing to anything else or exchanging for a mattress based on feel alone without knowing what is in it.
Hope this helps
Phoenix
Hi dcaldw,
The first thing I would do is to test a few local memory foam and latex mattresses to help you decide which direction you want to lean (either memory foam or latex in the comfort layers).
If you do decide to purchase online ā¦ then the return policy or the exchange policy of the outlet you are buying from becomes a primary factor in your purchase along with knowing that the mattress you are considering is layered in a similar way to mattresses that you have tested locally.
Since the choice of comfort layers usually boils down to latex or memory foam (there are other choices which you can read about here but these are the most generally available). It may also be worth reading about the pros and cons of memory foam and the pros and cons of latex.
Usually your best value in terms of materials/quality/price is from a factory direct manufacturer or a retail direct outlet that sells mattresses made locally or regionally. If you let me know the city where you live Iād be happy to take a look and see if I know of any that may be near you.
Taking your time and specific testing for PPP (pressure relief, posture, and preferences) rather than just an overall feel of ācomfortā in the store will go a long way to making a good decision (either a local purchase or an online purchase) in combination with knowing about the durability of different types of materials and how long they will keep the properties they had when they were new. Knowing exactly what is in a mattress you are considering will also go a long way towards making meaningful comparisons between mattresses.
Feel free to post along the way if you are unsure about any of the āstoriesā or mattresses you encounter.
Phoenix
Thank you so much PHX! I will keep you posted. In the meantime, the information for our NH mattress is helpful. I will continue to research on your site to make sure I do not make the same mistake twice!!
Hi Phoenix,
Thank you again for sharing your wealth of knowledge and even rationale
I have my bed now!!! It is so high (between the mattress / box spring)ā¦ I LOVE THAT!!! :woohoo:
After laying on it though, it feels really firm We went with Medium top layer of latex, since that was modeled in the store; now I wonder if we should have gone with āsoftā. We tried jumping on the bed and enlisting the help of our āenergizedā children, butā¦ high energy or not, jumping on latex is highly exhausting!!! :lol:
We have left the plastic in tact on the mattress and box springs and put the mattress protector over both and weāre going to give this a tryā¦ I considered exploring mattress toppers, but I really would prefer not to go that route.
Since this is our first latex bed, I am not sure what my expectation should beā¦ or how long the bed will feel so firm, and estimated time frame for breaking in the mattress. I understand preferences are subjective, but, a little direction on what to expect would be helpful
Thank you again for all of your help!
Sleepy
Hi sleepy-in-az,
While each person has a different āfeelingā about soft, medium, and firm, (depending on height, weight, and subjective perception and preferences) medium latex is probably a little firmer than most people are used to on the top of their mattress. Memory foam for example is under 15 ILD and often under 10 while polyfoam is often under 10 as well when used in the comfort layers or quilting of a mattress. Even the so called āfirmā major brand innerspring mattresses usually have a few inches of very soft polyfoam on top and the firmness that people feel comes from feeling the layers under the soft polyfoam not from the polyfoam itself. So a feeling of firmness that comes from the layers on top of a mattress and the feeling of firmness that comes from what you feel āthroughā the top layers from the layers in the middle or bottom of the mattress are quite different.
While latex in the 30-32 range can still be very pressure relieving (more so for heavier weights), it will have a more āon the mattressā and firmer type of feel than softer latex. This is more noticeable for side sleeping which has more ābony protrusionsā than other sleeping positions. Memory foam, especially the more closed cell denser varieties, tends to noticeably soften in the first few weeks of use because the thinnest cell walls will rupture and soften the foam. This initial softening is the ābreak inā over the first few weeks and will be followed with a more gradual softening over time. These types of memory foam can sometimes benefit from walking on the mattress to shorten the ābreak inā period (open up some of the internal cells).
Polyfoam is already more open celled than most memory foam and the initial softening is less than memory foam (although it breaks down or ādegradesā more quickly over time than quality memory foam and latex). Latex is the most open celled of all and has the least initial softening of all foams and will tend to keep its initial firmness level to a much greater extent. It will also break down much more gradually than other foams over time which is why it is so durable and long lasting. This durability is part of the strength of latex but it also means that what you buy in the store doesnāt have to take āsofteningā or ābreak inā into account in the same way as other materials.
So what you have now will likely stay very close to the same firmness level and only soften more gradually over longer periods of time. It may often take a few weeks of sleeping to get used to a different feel than you are used to on the top of a mattress but the break in will be much less than other types of foam.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I have one last question, what is the difference in solid core base latex dunlop vs tri core? is one more expensive than the other or is the durability not the same.
Hi lasdj,
Latex can be made in either a single zone version or a multi zone version (usually either 3, 5, or 7 zones). The zones are areas of either firmer or softer latex to help hold up the hips and pelvic area or to let the shoulders sink in more. In 3 zoned versions ā¦ the middle third or so of the latex layer is firmer (to help support the hips). The difference in the different zones is usually about 4-6 ILD. While this is relatively small ā¦ it can certainly help in some situations. More than 3 zones though is more about marketing and a bit of overkill IMO.
The durability depends more on the quality of the latex that is used than the zoning and if a zoned core is made the same way (all natural Dunlop for example) the durability will be about the same. The price would be similar or perhaps slightly more than a unizone layer but the difference is not usually significant and would depend on the manufacturer of the layer.
Phoenix
Thanks again for your speedy reply. Yeah I didnt know the difference between tri zone vs solid core.
Hi lasdj,
I would say that was a ābonusā While āsolid coreā usually means a single piece (say a 6" layer instead of 2 x 3" layers) it may be multi zoned or a single ILD. In your case ā¦ itās trizoned which can help with the alignment part of the āmattress equationā.
Phoeinx
Help! I am overwhelmed with information.
I will check out more of this siteās info, but will throw down my history/current problem, then continue reading. Thanks, and iām glad i stumbled upon this site. Iāve read anothe site last night and it rates mattress types to 1,000ās of peoples reviews and listed from best to worst air, memory foam, latex, water, futon(AHHH!) and sping/coil last. Iām just about to buy spring again and read it has the worst ratings of all (kingsdownā¦which i was about to purchase was the lowest)
Okay, iāve read so far that you(Phoenix) prefer latex. I bought Air Springās Regeneration Latex three years ago, and my back has been bothering me the last two. I thought it was my job, never the bed, and finally March 2011, started looking into new beds and in the process of changing. The Regeneration has tonnes of bad reviews now, i just wish I researched before I bought, but then again, Iāve never had problems with mattresses before. I sleep in the spare room the last few months(queen coilspring King Koil) because my lower back hurts so much on the latex(our first King size bed). Toss/turn, and every morning shooting pain when i get out.
So, I phoned Sleep Country and I do have a voucher for 25% - 50% off, which would bring the total down to an equal price vs. Local/Costco comparisons. Question: So, do I take advantage of this or still seek out local made mattress or Novaform from Costco.
Yesterday I went to Sleep Country and after explaining my situation, he suggested icomfort. I told him I didnāt like the latex and was concerned about trying another ānewā mattress with no history in Sertaās icomfort memory foam. I was prepared to buy a spring mattress, because it is what I know. So, I tried a few of his recommendations and settled for the Kingsdown Wharton springcoil. Now, after reading that spring mattresses are the worst reviewed I am wondering what to do.
My main concern now is pain relief. Iām 42 now and I know itāll be hard to feel 100% going forward, i just want my next purchase to be better, and not be sold another lemon. Iāll keep reading and hopefully find what iām looking for, but would like your takeā¦ These are Canadian names(i donāt know if you heard of the Regeneration latex) but I guess the Kingsdown brand isnāt well received both sides of the border. Should I be looking at Memory Foam or stick to a firm springcoil (and get gel/foam topper if needed).
Like I saidā¦overwhelmed and going to take a break from readingā¦let some of this sink in (no sagging thoughā¦). Sorry for all the infoā¦