The Serta iComfort mattress ... what's the buzz

[phoenix]

Hi Jayman,

Part of the problem when consumers are buying a mattress that is called a “latex” mattress from a major manufacturer is that most of the time it isn’t what could be reasonably be called a latex mattress at all. Most of the time, there is several inches of polyfoam above the latex (the type of foam that breaks down) and often the latex layers are hidden in between other layers of the mattress. Unfortunately when people buy these, they believe they are buying a latex mattress when they are buying a mattress which has some latex in it. The Dr Breus line for example is being vigorously marketed as a latex mattress when in fact it is a polyfoam mattress with some latex in it (in the top end model less than half of the thickness of the mattress is actually latex and the lower models are significantly less than that).

The old spring air latex (four seasons in the US) were the same way … a recipe for the body impressions that you are experiencing not because of the latex in them but because of the inches of cheap soft polyfoam that you were lying on and the construction and layering of the mattress. Even the versions with a latex core (instead of a polyfoam core) had way too much polyfoam above the latex. It’s no wonder Spring Air went bankrupt.

The only way to know whether you are buying a latex mattress is to see the layer by layer description of the mattress. If you put several inches of polyfoam over latex, the mattress will have the typical impression issues of a polyfoam mattress.

The reason I like latex is because of a unique combination of qualities that are not shared with other types of foam … not the least of these is its durability (it will outlast even a good innerspring). A material however doesn’t “make” a mattress a “good” mattress for any individual. It may be a quality mattress but completely unsuitable for a particular individual. The layer combinations and how they work together are what makes a mattress suitable for each individual and their unique height, weight, sleeping positions, and preferences. Even the best material and the highest quality mattress with the wrong construction is a recipe for pressure issues or back issues.

There are 6 overviews on the site in the “mattresses” section. If you read these alone (starting with this one) then you will likely know more than the majority of salespeople in the mass market outlets.

Whoever contributed to or compiled that list has no idea about mattress construction. Since innerspring support cores completely dominate the market (although that’s changing) … then every unhappy consumer that has a bunch of cheap soft polyfoam over their innerspring which breaks down (which it will since the comfort layers are the weak link in a mattress) will believe that innerspring mattresses are “bad” when in fact they were probably still fine and of course it was the polyfoam causing the iimpressions and soft spots in the mattress.

Hopefully you will have the chance to try a mattress that really is a latex mattress (latex in the comfort layer with either no polyfoam or at worst 1" of polyfoam in the comfort layer). The other option is really memory foam but this is just polyfoam with additional chemicals added so if the memory foam is low density (like in the iComfort) then it will almost certainly suffer the same fate as the Spring Air.

The weak link in a mattress is the part which “wears out” first and this will ruin the mattress no matter what other materials are in it. When polyfoam wears out … it still has just enough ability to recover its shape so the softening is not covered because of the warranty exclusion (usually 1.5" or more). This softening makes the mattress completely unsuitable for sleeping on but when the weight on the mattress is removed … it still “looks” OK even though it isn’t.

I wouldn’t buy a mattress with too much polyfoam or low density memory foam in the comfort layer no matter what the price (unless I was happy with the idea of throwing it away in a couple of years or so or even less). The discount would only really have value if they had a mattress that was worth buying at 50% off the deep discount price … and many chain stores who mainly carry major brands don’t.

Your best bet IMO is always a local factory direct manufacturer who knows what they put in the mattress and why. As a rule … this is where you will find the best value and more importantly yet … the knowledge and expertise to fit a mattress to your circumstances. The quality and durability of a mattress is important of course … but even the highest quality mattress that isn’t suitable for you is still a “bad” choice. Back pain and sleeping issues IMO aren’t worth it at any price.

Phoenix

[jayman]

Thanks,

 I quickly checked out a local furniture store that deals with only BC/Canadian companies for their mattress selections.  He sells Spring Air Sleep Sense (Bio Max) mix of latex/mem foam, Novo (Novotech, Novopure - latex) which felt great but pricey.  Also carried Renelle - Viscoform series of mem foam (canadian company) and others under Spring Air name - Restwell, Back Supporter.

Most of latex beds were $3000 -$4000 range.

 I also went back to Sleep Country to try their 100% Latex - ZenBody which felt good and got down to $2560.  
 Both carried the Tempurpedic line which I tried the Rhapsody and liked as well.

I have a few in mind to give a second/longer try and the owner of the local store knew what he was talking about and I could tell would take the time to get me the right bed for me, as the Sleep Country salespeople hardly listened to me.  I may have to pay more...but in the end let my body tell me which to buy.

[phoenix]

Hi Jayman,

Restwell is the Western Canada licensee for Spring Air as well as makes their own mattresses (such as the Novo series). When Spring Air went bankrupt in 2009, three of the US licensees and the Canadian licensees were not affected except of course the hit to the brand name. A licensing group will often build their mattresses to slightly different specs even while using the same brand name (they have rights to the name but there is no central “authority” to spec their mattresses the same in each region). Spring Air though since it was bought and emerged from bankruptcy is doing some innovative things but has lost a huge amount of market share in North America ( they are still in the top 15 but used to be in the top 5). They still suffer from the same issues as the majors though in that even with good quality manufacturing and materials they don’t have the same value as mattresses produced by local factory direct manufacturers using the same or similar materials. I have to say though that they are certainly better than they were IMO. I guess 2 bankruptcies in the last 7 years can help in getting their finances in order :).

I’m not a fan (in general) of the back supporter form of “zoning” as it’s a type of “reverse zoning” which in some cases is not suitable for alignment. It allows the hips and shoulder to sink deeper (rather than holding them up) and transfers pressure to the lumbar (which bears more weight) and for some people this can be very uncomfortable.

I like what Renelle Furniture is doing with their mattresses. They are using quality material and are hitting their price points well with real value and use some high quality foam. They are also coming out with a latex line soon that I believe will also have good value.

Zenbody is the Canadian version of the Embody line and they make it better in Canada IMO than in the US. It is all latex but it uses Sealy’s “smartlatex” which is mainly synthetic latex fabricated with various “inserts” and is not the same quality as either 100% natural Dunlop latex or Talalay latex. While it is one of their better mattresses … it is also overpriced IMO.

The Tempurpedics are also good quality mattresses but not good value as they are also higher priced than other mattresses that use quality memory foam and made by local manufacturers. While they are a standout in the memory foam field … there are many other options that don’t have the same name recognition that make similar quality with better value. The “trick” is to know what is in a mattress to make meaningful comparisons and at least the Tempurpedic site … especially the Canadian one … gives good information about the foam they use.

I would stay away from chain stores and the major brands completely as they sell mattresses that have too much lower quality materials (especially polyfoam in the comfort layers) in them and even their best mattresses are overpriced compared again to local manufacturing. Some other options in the Vancouver area are in this thread. If you’re not in the Vancouver area let me know and I’ll be happy to take a look to see if I know of any local manufacturing or higher value outlets where you are.

Phoenix

[jimdog]

Being a good buyer for all of the other things in my life, I came to the realization after reading this thread that I have not purchased enough mattresses in my lifetime and have absolutely no clue what I’m doing.

I still have a waterbed. It’s killing me. Last time I replaced the mattress was about 12 years ago.

My story: I want to keep the waterbed platform. It is really nice… has drawers underneath and two night stands attached to the sides. I measured it up to be 72x84, a California King, and went out mattress shopping. The depth is 8.5 inches so I want something a bit taller so I don’t sink into the frame.

I looked at the memory foam options and just assumed that’s what I wanted. I liked the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme, but liked the iComfort Reveloution a bit better, mostly because it was $800 less. But did I really like it? After reading this thread I realized that the thing I don’t like about both was how difficult it was to change positions. I’m a big guy, 6ft 1 and 240 pounds. I sometimes have back pain… probably from the lack of support from the waterbed. One thing I do like about my waterbed is that I can move around easily. Not so with the memory foam. I’m also a hot person and the waterbed always had a cooling effect (never used the heater). I’m concerned about the memory foam being hot and am not buying the idea that the iComfort is going to solve that problem. Same with the Novaform.

So after reading this thread, I’m thinking I want to look at Latex.

Phoenix, can you give me a few Latex mattresses to look at? Also, I’m in Wilmington, DE (Near Philadelphia). Do you know of anything locally I can check out?

I don’t mind spending money for quality. My big concern is buying the wrong mattress. I’m really glad that I found this forum and didn’t go forward with the iComfort. Thanks so much for all the good information!

[jayman]

Phx…have you read/blogged about the Novo series? It looked/felt great but was one of the expensive ones ($4000). I did see Restwell was locatd near me, just forgot to mention. I’ll also look up Renelle and give them a visit. I also did notice they were working on a latex but not avail yet.
More backstory on my current problem mattress: My kingsize Spring Air Regeneration I Latex(could be Restwell!?!?) was purchased at Sleep Country like I said, was 3.5 dunlop latex on top of 4 inches of polyurethane high density foam - which could be the killer to my back problem. I guess i could ask the people at Restwell about this problem and if Sleep Country’s version differed in materials, and what they could now recommend.

 Like i said, i was going to look into innerspring again, as my first latex was not a success, but am now looking at 90-100% latex along with innerspring to compare.  I like the mem foam feel, but worried about it not lasting or taking long to get use to.  

 Thanks again for the listings in Vancouver, I'm closer to Surrey/Langley and will check those ones first....little time as my wife and 1 yr twins are in "just buy a mattress and get it over with" mode.  Stressful and time consuming.......

[phoenix]

Hi Jimdog,

There are several factory direct manufacturers and some other options that are in or fairly close to Wilmington listed in post #4 here

Hope this helps …

Phoenix

[phoenix]

Hi jayman,

Restwell would have made your mattress if you purchased it in Western Canada. In doing some quick research to see if I could confirm the specs I came across this forum thread which confirmed that the Regeneration 1 had 3.5" of Dunlop over polyfoam and the Regeneration 11 had 1" of Talalay over a 7" Dunlop core. Apparently the Dunlop was also 80% synthetic and 20% natural made by Latexco which could also explain the sagging (mostly synthetic dunlop is not usually as durable as natural). The sagging was not uncommon in this mattress and seems to comfirm it is inferior latex (I would only purchase 100% natural Dunlop or at least very close). They also didn’t say if there was any other polyfoam in the mattress or quilting. If your mattress was thicker than 8" then the rest would be polyfoam.

I haven’t written anything about the Novo but I have looked at them and the materials that they are made of. I have to say that they do use high quality materials including Celsion latex, Aerus memory foam (my favorite) and other FXI foams. They are also using a zoning system that is meaningful which uses different materials in the zones rather than just minor variations in ILD and they also have different models designed for different sleeping positions so some thought has gone into their design. They even have a 1/2 inch warranty exclusion on their mattress which is very unusual and excellent (latex or quality memory foam is typically .75" and a “standard” mattress is typically 1.5" or more). Overall I have to say that I am impressed.

Having said that however, I am not so impressed with the price. If I was looking at a latex mattress in a king size, I would be asking why the price is so high compared to some of the other options available which are all latex including from some of the outlets I listed earlier. Talalay latex is the most expensive foam and this doesn’t even have all latex. Nice mattress … but more than I would pay.

Since the comfort layer of a mattress is its weak link … it is also well worth looking at latex over either polyfoam or an innerspring to get the “feel” of latex with less expensive but still good support layers or to change the overall feel of the mattress.

Memory foam does feel nice for those who like its “different” feel in spite of its weaknesses. I personally like it better as a thinner part of a layering approach in the comfort layer mixed with latex as by itself it tends to soften and in the lower densities degrade much more quickly than latex. Typically most memory foam will soften about 20% in the first few weeks or months of use and then more gradually after that. In a comfort layer which only uses memory foam … its especially important to make sure that it is a higher quality (5 lbs density and higher is usually considered the beginning of high quality memory foam). Lower than 4 lbs and it will soften much more quickly and some people only are able to get good use out of it for a few months.

Good luck in your search and feel free to post your questions along the way … and I have a feeling you may be a little surprised at the value available from the local manufacturers there.

Phoenix

[tobyla]

Phoenix,

I appreciate any help you can give me. My wife has had lower back issues for years and we have been through 3 spring mattresses in the past 5 years. We have tried the pillowtop and the firm mattress but she always wakes up hurting. After reading this forum thread I have narrowed our search to two memory foam mattress’s and I was wondering if you could give me some advice (links below). If it matters we are both larger (I’m 280 and she is 240) and live in Shreveport, LA. Are there equivalent products we could see in person? There are a lot of mattress stores around here but I don’t know what would be the available that is similar to the Aerus mattress. I think we can find an Icomfort and compare that to the amazon serta. If you have any other suggestions that we should look at let me know. I want to keep the price at or under 1K and we are thinking of going down from a king to a queen size.

Let us know you're not a robot - Sam's Club

https://www.amazon.com/Serta-12-Inch-3-Layer-Queen-Mattress/dp/B004PEJ1NY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319149263&sr=8-2

[phoenix]

Hello Tobyla,

I think the first question I would ask is “are you absolutely committed to a memory foam mattress?”. I’m asking because memory foam is not a great choice in any of the lower densities for larger weights or back issues unless it has been very carefully “matched” to your body shape, weight, and sleeping positions and even then I would not consider anything less than 5 lb density or it will quickly soften and degrade and lose the qualities that made it suitable when it was new. IMO … neither of the mattresses you mentioned would be suitable for you since they are designed for more “average” weights.

While Aerus is a good quality memory foam … it comes in several densities and the version you linked to is only 4 lbs (which is why it is a lower cost). The Serta has convoluted foam underneath the memory foam (which doesn’t list the density at all) which means you would have 2.5" of an unknown density memory foam over 2.5" of soft convoluted polyfoam. Convoluted foam or this much total soft foam (the memory foam and the convoluted foam together) on top of your mattress is also not a good idea in your circumstances.

I looked at the stores in or near Shreveport and based on their online information … there is little in any of them in your budget range (or even higher) that I would consider.

It would help me to make more suggestions if I knew your sleeping positions. While innersprings are not necessarily a poor choice for a support layer in a mattress (depending on the type and quality of the innerspring) … the material above the innersprings are the “weak point” in most mattresses and all pillowtops and most non pillowtops made by the major manufacturers would contain too much polyfoam or memory foam to hold up well for larger weights … especially in a lower budget range.

While a king size certainly offers more room and sleeping “space” … they also represent a significant jump in price over a queen. There is also a foundation or boxspring (depending on mattress type) to consider in your budget as well so how much you could spend on a mattress would depend on whether a base would need to be included in your budget.

So if you can let me know your typical sleeping positions and whether you will need a foundation or boxspring as well it would help a lot to make more suggestions.

Phoenix

[tobyla]

We are both side/stomach sleepers. I’m not committed to memory foam, I just thought it might work better for my wife’s back pain. I can go up to 2k if needed. All we have are a king foundation/box springs so we would need to include those if we purchase a queen.

Would I be better served buying a quality inner spring mattress and putting a latex topper on it?

[phoenix]

Hi Tobyla,

I would be hesitant with memory foam in your circumstances both because even high quality memory foam (5 lbs and higher) will soften considerably with your weight and because unless it is very carefully constructed in terms of both thickness, density, and the qualities and combinations of the underlying support layers … you would be risking worsening any back pain. Memory foam and back pain are often not a good combination without knowing the exact construction that is suitable for you. Memory foam … like any other material … will react much differently with different layering combinations and types of foam both above it and below it. If it is too thick or has inappropriate support layers … then it can lead to alignment problems which translates into back issues. Because memory foam is a “non supportive” material (it is for pressure relief, not support) … the thickness of the layers and the support properties of the rest of the mattress becomes even more important than with other materials. I certainly wouldn’t consider buying a lower density (less than 5 lbs) memory foam mattress online unless you were only buying it for temporary use (a few months) and even then it may not be suitable.

If I was going to purchase an innerspring mattress with the intention of adding a topper (which can be a very good idea in some circumstances), I would look for a good quality innerspring but the absolute least amount of polyfoam over this. Many “quality” major brand mattresses are not really quality at all and have far too much polyfoam in the upper layers … even in the firm versions. I would also tend to avoid pocket coils as they tend to be the least “durable” of the innerspring types. Bear in mind too that if you purchase a very firm innerspring mattress … that you may need about 4" of latex over this and that this is not an insignificant expense. It would usually be less expensive to purchase the latex in the mattress and completely avoid the additional “expense” of buying any unneeded polyfoam in the “base” mattress. The less money you spend on buying polyfoam or low density memory foam, the better off you will be in the long run. Don’t forget too that is is easier to soften up a mattress that is too firm than to “firm up” a mattress that either started off or has become too soft.

Do you ever travel to or visit Dallas? There are some very good factory direct manufacturers there which would certainly solve the problem as you could both test different materials and layering combinations in person and purchase from a high value manufacturer at the same time. If you don’t go there at all and because it is hours away, then the best value would likely be to make an online purchase using any local testing or your height and weight and sleeping positions as pointers to the best layering. There are many reputable online factory direct outlets who are very good at helping people with a layering that is suitable and even in the worst case a layer exchange at low cost will usually correct any “mistakes” in an initial purchase.

My inclination would be in a direction such as this with very high quality polyfoam … https://www.absolutecomfortonsale.com/specialty-mattress-bed.htm

or better yet all latex such as these (both of whom are members of this site and both of whom offer both Dunlop and Talalay latex where you can choose your own layers). Dunlop latex is often used in the lower layers when needed because of its denser, firmer, and more supportive nature …

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King or Queen Adjustable Ultra Plush Latex Sleep System (Blended), #1 Selling Latex Mattress- Adjustable Ultra Plush, Latex Mattresses-Talalay and Dunlop, All Products

I would certainly speak with these as they are good at making recommendations for layering to fit your weight and sleeping positions. When you are a side/stomach sleeper … the thinnest/firmest possible comfort layer that relieves pressure on your side is also best for stomach sleeping as stomach sleeping has a much higher risk of sleeping out of alignment (in a swayback position) and creating back issues. I know I’ve said this before however in your circumstances I really would be leaning away from memory foam.

Phoenix

[tobyla]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think we are going to order a mattress from Sleepez. Can I use a regular frame and box springs for the foundation?

[phoenix]

Hi Tobyla,

Rather than a boxspring (the type with springs in it), I think you would be much better served with a strong wooden rigid slatted foundation as they help the latex (or any foam mattress) to provide better support. If you put this base on a bed or bed frame it would be important to make sure that it was strong and durable with very good center support on the floor to prevent any sagging. Most outlets will sell a suitable foundation for their mattresses such as this one at SleepEz.

Phoenix

[tobyla]

What about one of these metal frames?

https://www.amazon.com/Structures-HIGHRISE-Folding-Bi-Fold-Platform/dp/B000ZQCJVC/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_t_1

[phoenix]

Hi tobyla,

I would tend to avoid these. IMO … they are not rigid enough on top and there is too much space between the thicker wires and too much thin wire on the surface.

If you are looking towards a metal foundation … I would tend towards a power stack foundation on a solid wooden support like this.

My Green Mattress Bases

Phoenix

[phoenix]

Hi Tobyla,

I was looking around your area and there is an outlet that sells the Pure Latex Bliss Nature and the Sealy Embody latex (although it doesn’t say which model which would be important to know). These could be helpful in terms of doing some testing for pressure relief and alignment. I would call first though because they seem to carry returns (based on their pricing and selection) and their stock may vary quite a bit.

A second store also carries the Sealy Embody latex and they may have more models there.

They are …

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https://www.bedroomsleepshop.com/

Your feedback on these may be helpful in terms of layering for an online purchase.

Phoenix

[Cmurdock]

Please keep in mind also that lower density does not always mean lower quality, for instance comparing tempur material (5 lb density) to costco novaform (Puke) there is a noticible difference in quality. the difference is in the manufacturing process, on one hand they both have same density and open cell structure. Tempur. opens the cells during the forming process which creates a PERFECT cell structure vs many other brands push the foam through almost like a printing press to open the cell walls which in turn breaks down the integrety of the foam. not playing favorites here just sayin.

[phoenix]

Hi Cmurdock,

You make some good points and I appreciate your comments but they are somewhat incomplete. There are many factors which contribute to the quality of a foam as measured by its durability however the single biggest factor is the density of the foam itself. There is a great deal of in depth articles on the PFA site and some of the google books pages about this that get very technical but they are both very interesting and informative. As to a “PERFECT” cell structure … there is a great deal of debate even inside the industry as to what “perfect” means and while there are many who will argue on one side of a position … there are others who will take the other side of the same argument. For example Tempur foam is less open celled than other foams and by this standard it is certainly less than “perfect” as there are many others which have a more open celled structure. “Perfect” can also be defined in many other ways including temperature sensitivity and resilience (recovery speed) and each foam formulation has a different mix of qualities that is more about preference than it is about perfection.

Some of the other factors involved are the specific formulations and chemicals used (including the use of TDI or MDI or plant based polyols or different catalysts) and the particular challenges involved in each formulation and how it reacts to changes in humidity and temperature during foaming and the differences in the manufacturing “steps” and the timing of the steps used in each formulation. There are also various ways of creating a more open cell structure in memory foam (which all manufacturers are currently working on to improve the memory foam temperature issues) including the VPF process, chemical processes, and mechanical processes. Some manufacturers use both chemical and mechanical processes to “open” the cell structure of their memory foams. Compression of the foam over long periods of time during storage and shipping and the type of compression used (vacuum vs pressure) can also play a major role in durability.

With all of this though … memory foam density remains the single most reliable indicator of foam durability with the others playing a secondary role as long you are comparing memory foams made by reputable manufacturers (as opposed to some uncertified foams with various types of “fillers”). There was a time when Tempur material was much higher quality than other memory foam manufacturers. This is no longer the case however the prices they charge remain higher than other equally “perfect” foams made by other foam pourers and used by many other mattress manufacturers.

There is a great deal of “confusion” in the memory foam segment of the industry and a great deal of variety in terms of different formulations which can produce more or less desirable qualities or “feels” based on individual preferences. Tempur has certainly led the way but they are no longer the undisputed leader in anything but their name recognition and the prices they charge.

As an interesting aside … I always find it fascinating to read the 10-K reports for some manufacturers as it gives some interesting insights into the thinking of management, and what they are “working on”. For example Tempurpedic spent almost 20% of its net sales on selling and marketing expenses in 2010 and almost 10% for advertising.

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Phoenix

[Wendy]

So glad I found your site, I almost bought the Tempurpedic Cloud today. Could you please point me to a local mattress store in the Austin, Texas area. We also liked the Prodigy by iComfort but now I know better. We are both side sleepers and weigh 130 and 165. I really miss our old style waterbed but it had to go when we moved. So, I like a soft bed,my husband a bit firmer. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks so much for your site.

[phoenix]

Hi Wendy,

Post #4 here should help.

Since both of you are on the lighter side … you may prefer slightly softer foam in the comfort layer. Even your husband may prefer this although he may like a firmer layer than you underneath (much of the feeling of “firmness” of a mattress comes from what is under the comfort layer). While it is quite likely that a similar construction would suit both of you … there is always the option of a “side to side” split where each side is customized to the needs and preferences of each of you.

I have some fond memories of my waterbed days as well If they “fit” … they can be very comfortable.

Phoenix