My girlfriend & I have been shopping around for a new mattress for several months… been sleeping on an old Ikea medium/firm spring mattress for the last 10 years. Tried out every model at the local department stores. We had settled on the Beautyrest Black series Margaret pillow top, plush. It was so soft & perfect, we were going to be able to get it for $1900 with my sisters employee discount. Then I started reading reviews & pretty much everyone says pillow tops start to sag within a few months, maybe a year. Simmons warranty is a joke too apparently.
So then I started looking into latex mattresses after reading about their durability & plush feel. I tried some memory foam beds (tempurpedic) and I hate the feel of how it conforms around your body.
Is a latex mattress different than this? There are no stores that I know of in NY area that have latex mattresses to try out besides the super firm ones at Ikea.
Some of the better options in the NYC area are listed in post #2 here and there is a more categorized description with more details about some of them in post #7 here.
Latex is very different from memory foam yes. It is much more resilient and a fast response foam while memory foam is a slow response foam. They have a very different feel. You will tend to be “on” the mattress more with latex while with memory foam you will tend to be more “in” the mattress. Different types of memory foam to different degrees will tend to be warmer and more motion restricting while latex tends to be cooler and more motion friendly.
Simmons doesn’t disclose any meaningful details about the Beautyrest Black and even though it’s clear that some of the layers at least are low quality materials (the Ultimate Dreams uses higher quality materials in terms of durability) … there is no way to compare them in terms of feel except by testing them side by side in “real time” or perhaps by subjectively estimating the relative firmness that you feel on the Beautyrest Black (which may be different for you than others) compared to other types of mattresses and estimate where it is in the overall scale of firmness/softness. You could then include this information in your discussions with Chuck when you make the choice of your comfort layer. This would be very inexact and subjective of course and in general using a major brand mattress even as a testing ground will lead more to frustration than good guidance.
Keep in mind too that Brooklyn Bedding’s new mattresses that are now being released on their site also have layer exchanges which can reduce the risk of making the wrong choice and they also offer a 5% discount to forum members here on their new line as well. Just some food for thought.
It’s always best to discuss your specific choices in a more detailed conversation with the manufacturer themselves who are much more familiar with their own mattresses, the options they have available, and how theyinteract with different types of people “on average” than I am. If you are fortunate they may also be familiar with how the Beautyrest Black may compare to their mattress choices. Both Talalay and Dunlop come in a range of firmness choices but in the same firmness level Dunlop will feel a little firmer when you sink into it a little deeper because it is a denser foam.
Thanks Phoenix… sleepworksny is 10 minutes from my house, Im going to go there this weekend and try out some of the latex beds.
Brooklyn bedding’s mattresses look nice, I notice that they are 3" of latex on top of a different kind of foam core. Is the Ultimate Dream mattress constructed in a similar way? Or is their mattress the same piece of latex throughout?
Yes … the Ultimate Dreams Ultra Plush on the Amazon site is similar with 3" of talalay latex (your choice of firmness level) and a high quality polyfoam base layer and 1.5" of quilting polyfoam. The difference is that it doesn’t have a zip cover so what you choose is what you end up with and you don’t have the ability to exchange the comfort layer for something firmer or softer if you need to. This type of construction is called a “latex/polyfoam hybrid” as opposed to an all latex mattress which is a higher performance and more costly mattress.
The Simmons Mattress company is owned by the same company that owns Sealy. Simmons was built on the “pocketed coil” (Leggett & Platt) spring system. There is nothing wrong with that system. Especially if you are not a heavy person. If you are a heavy person you will likely see less than the average 8 years of use. If I were buying a pocketed coil system I would not buy one of the name brands. Just about any decent local mattress store will have an unadvertised version of that same mattress for much less than the advertised Simmons. (I find it facinating that people see the name “Beautyrest” and think that it must be a great mattress because they have heard of it before). :sick: Shop the local stores and stay away from name brands.
Just to clarify one part of your post … Sealy has actually just recently been purchased by Tempurpedic. Serta and Simmons are the two major brands that share common ownership (see post #1 here).
The salesman said one of the nice things about the PLB topper was the way the Tencel fabric stretches so you really get to sink into the latex. He had me try another topper with tighter fabric & I could feel the difference.
So I guess now the question is do I go with the 14" Aloe Alexis from Brooklyn Bedding, or the combo from sleepworks?
The Aloe Alexis has the tighter looking fabric on top, but it does have 6" of blended talalay. It also gets zipped up in one cover with the base so it wont shift around.
The PLB has 3" of Talalay on the topper & 1" on the base. The topper is a separate piece from the base.
You have narrowed things down to a choice between “good and good” which means the choice between them would be a matter of your own personal value equation because your choices are also quite different. I can’t make an specific comment about their relative value without knowing the size you are looking at and whether the Mezzanine is a mattress only price or the price for a set including a foundation.
The Alexis is 6" of latex and the Mezzanine has 4" of latex (the value of the Alexis would be more) and both have a high quality base layer (a 6" high quality HD polyfoam core for the Alexis and an 8" bonded latex/polyfoam core for the Mezanine).
The Mezzanine would have a very different feel though because the latex topper is 14 ILD blended Talalay which is the softest they make and it also has an inch of slow recovery latex under this which would have a different “feel” than fast response latex.
The Alexi uses a minimum of 19 ILD latex (most manufacturers choose not to go as low as 14 because of potential durability issues because even though it’s more durable than an equivalent polyfoam … it’s not as durable as firmer latex). Its thicker layer would make it softer than if it had only 4" and it also has soft quilting foam on top but even so I doubt it will feel quite as “plush” as the Mezzanine.
The Alexis also has the option of exchanging a layer if it turns out that you want to change your comfort choice after sleeping on it for a while.
Of course there is also the extra “value” of a local purchase that you have tested in person and some extra “risk” for any online purchase that you haven’t tried that also has to be factored into the mix even though the comfort exchange lowers this risk.
Like a replaceable layer … the topper also has the advantage that it can be replaced (just like a loose layer in a zip mattress) without having to replace the entire mattress. A latex topper typically wouldn’t have an issue with shifting.
So I can’t tell you which one to choose because that’s up to your own preferences about the differences between them and only you can know which of the “tradeoffs” are most important to you but at least you have a sense of the differences between them. With the “missing information” about size and whether it’s mattress only or a set it would also make a comparison a little more “apples to apples”.
It’s always a good thing when you have eliminated all your worst options and you are only left with good ones
Yes at this point Im sure I could live with either choice comfortably.
The 1350 + tax deal is for the queen size 3" talalay topper & mezzanine mattress only, no boxspring/foundation included.
I would be putting this directly on a Malm bed (Ikea) with no additional foundation… the bed has the metal crossbeam & wooden slats that are tightly spaced.
Im tempted to try out the alexis first though for a few reasons, namely the lower cost & also plain old curiosity. It has the 120 day return/refund policy. I work in the shipping industry so I could return the whole thing at no cost to myself if I needed to.
Guess ill just have to sleep on it ( no pun ) lol
Thanks again for all your responses Phoenix, you have been very helpful
If you work in the shipping industry and could return it at no cost that would reduce any risk significantly because as you would know the cost of truck shipping a whole mattress back (especially with 6" of latex which is a much heavier material) can be significant.
If you are looking at a queen size … then there is no doubt from a raw value perspective that the Brooklyn Bedding Alexis is the better value with 6" of latex and wool quilting in the cover as well … not to mention the comfort options available.
The only real “down” side (depending on what you are looking for) is that the surface “feel” probably wouldn’t be quite as plush as the Mezzanine/topper combination at least when it comes to hand feel and comfort layer softness but with 6" of latex and with the comfort choices you have you would also be improving the odds of better alignment as well.
In terms of which one would best “match” the feel of the Beautyrest Black you tested … it would depend on which Beautyrest black you were comparing it to because there are significant differences between the various models (as you can see here)
While matching mattresses based on feel alone is very inexact at the best of times unless you are making side by side comparisons in real time … out of curiosity how did the “feel” of the Mezzanine with the topper match your memory of the Beautyrest black you tested?
I’ll be interested in hearing about your final choice regardless of which direction you choose
Spoke w/ Chuck @ Brooklynbedding today, for a # 10 softness they do use 14 ILD latex for the top 3" & 19 ILD for the 3" under that. Im going to go with the alexis then…
forgot to ask him one thing though. what kind of foam is used in the 1.5" top layer of the aloe quilted cover? regular, high density or high resilience?
Phoenix, do you know what the coupon code is to get the 5% forum discount?
I didn’t realize they went so low … and that would be one VERY soft mattress! Thanks for letting us know.
I don’t know the density but you can read a bit more about it (and the idea behind using quilting foam) in post #2 here. It’s a supersoft polyfoam usually in a lower density range (HD not HR) with greater resistance to tearing and a higher resiliency than normal foams that are often used to increase the surface softness of the comfort layers or create a little more relaxed and less resilient sleeping surface compared to sleeping directly on the latex. The quilting also helps the cover keep its shape. It can help with airflow as well because the quilting foam is generally very open celled and breathable. In quilting layers that are around an inch or so or less then the density or softening of the foam would not be in issue. Once you are at 2" or more then I would want to know the density because you are getting into the range where softening could become an issue and you would want higher density foams because of their greater durability. Different quilt patterns can also compress the foam more or less and either make the surface firmer (tighter quilt patterns) or softer (looser quilt patterns).
Polyfoam that has a higher resilience or compression modulus than conventional foam but isn’t as dense as true HR foam is often called “high performance” or “high comfort” foam.
There isn’t a coupon code. For their Amazon mattresses all you have to do in an email or phone call is to let them know you are a member of the forum and they will include the pillow bonus…
EDIT: To receive the forum discount on their Brooklyn Bedding line make sure you either call, email, or use their chat to get the discount information before your purchase.
I think you may be the first on the forum to buy this particular mattress since its introduction and I’m looking forward to your feedback once you get it.
should have our mattress this Friday, maybe Monday next week
I almost forgot I’ll need to get a mattress pad/protector… can you recommended a good one for use with a latex mattress?
Looking to spend ~$100 or less
The pros and cons of the different types of protectors are in post #89 here.
With a budget under $100 … I would probably suggest one of the thin membrane type of protectors such as the Protect-a-Bed (or some of the other similar brands). I would look for one where the surface fabric is either cotton or some kind of rayon fabric (to wick moisture better) and where the surface itself (not just the sides that stretches and tucks under the mattress) has a little bit of stretch as well (like a cotton jersey) so it doesn’t create a 'drum" effect on your mattress.
These are probably the most popular types of protectors and while you give up a little bit of ventilation and temperature regulation compared to the other types because they are not quite as breathable … they are thin and have little effect on the feel of the mattress and also are waterproof (vs water resistant or moisture absorbing) in normal use.
Is my warranty still good? If I can save one person from going through my ordeal it would be great. I bought a Simmons Beautyrest Black, Dafne Plush Firm for $2500 one year ago. After 6 months it was sagging and forming body impressions. Sit and Sleep’s return policy is a joke and they have a return stocking fee. My back was killing me so I tried a 3 inch memory foam topper from Costco. It did not work and I was just sinking in. I went and tried some Latex Mattresses at Foam Sweet Foam and they were fantastic but I really did not want to buy a brand new mattress after less than a year. I tried a one inch dunlop latex topper and it was better, but of course a topper on a soft bed does not help. I tried selling the mattress on craigslist for 500 bucks and no takers. I decided to take the plunge and cut the sucker open. The top layer was sewn down through a polyester batting layer, then two one inch layers of cheap foam. Next there was a 2 inch layer of memory foam, then a 6 inch layer of firm PU foam. below that were the pocket coils individually wrapped… I did not want to separate all the individual embroideries to the top two foam layers so I just cut the whole top of the mattress off. I put my one inch latex topper on top and put a mattress cover over. It is way better now and much more firm. We will see how long it lasts but if I had to do it again I would just have purchased a Latex Mattress at Foam Sweet Foam.
Thanks for the great picture … and for your comments about your Beautyrest Black and of course your mattress surgery.
It still never ceases to amaze me what these “top of the line” mattresses have in them.
I have to ask you as well … how did you get the picture in your post. I (and a few other members) haven’t been able to attach pictures and you seem to have managed it.
OK … I just partly figured it out. I just tried Internet Explorer and I could attach a picture but I can’t with Firefox … Hmmm.
Thanks again for your comments … and for partly solving the attachment mystery.
