vegan latex mattress - NYC area

In addition to getting a new mattress, we also need a new frame. I was thinking of getting an Ikea frame + Ikea slats. Specifically the Lonset slats. I believe the Lonset replaced the Sulton Luroy.

Are these slats okay? Cuz it’s flexible I heard that there might be potential for sagging.

Hi blackrider,

They would be fine in terms of supporting the mattress but they can change the feel and performance of your sleeping system in terms of PPP compared to a rigid non flexing foundation that is more common with latex mattresses because the support system will have some extra give under the mattress. How much you notice this or whether the effect is beneficial or detrimental to your sleeping experience will depend on the specifics of the person and of the mattress. You can see more of my thoughts about tension adjustable flexible slat systems in post #13 here and post #2 here and post #2 here.

Phoenix

Hmm… my wife wanted to get the Hurdal frame from Ikea (Products - IKEA). Agreeing with your suggestion that the flex slats might not be good (for 9" latex mattress), where would I shop for rigid slats.

From some online research, are these a slats option: purerest.com/Organic-Mattresses/Organic-Outer-Untreated-Wood-Foundation_3/Short-Tower_6? They don’t have center support rail or feet though. Assuming I get the Hurdal, I can buy the Ikea center support rail and use the slats on top of that?
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Are there others that are more affordable?

I prefer slats over foundation because there is a very good chance we’ll be moving (maybe twice) within the year.

Hi blackriderx,

You could buy 1 x 3" slats or 1" x 4" slats cut to the correct length for your bedframe and using good quality stiff wood (such as spruce, yellow pine, or fir … see here). Just make sure that you have enough so that the gap between the slats is 3" or less (less would be better). A google search on slat roll will bring up more sources for slats but just make sure that you confirm they are the right size.

Another good and inexpensive option is the slat conversion linked here (again make sure that it fits your bedframe).

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Yes these would also be fine (they have a 1.5" gap according to the description) but I would check with the manufacturer of your mattress about the Ikea bedframe because some manufacturers have a warranty that requires a center support beam with at least one supporting leg to the floor in queen size and two in king size.

Phoenix

Following discussion, we decided to get a bed frame from West Elm. This Vonnegut/Kraft Bed, which states middle support leg: http://www.westelm.com/products/vonnegut-kraft-bed-set-h359/?pkey=csale-furniture|4294960680&cm_src=sale-furniture||FN-Product%20Type-_-FN-Bed%20Set-_--_-

Doesn’t say the number (or width) of slats, but from other posts here, seems like West Elm bed slats are acceptable.

Hi blackriderx,

If you have confirmed that the slats are 3" or less apart then it should be fine for an all latex mattress.

It seems that some of the west elm slats are 4" apart (see here) which is a little more than ideal spacing but it also seems that some of them may be less than that (based on the picture here which has 16 slats) so I would check to confirm the distance between the slats in the bed you are ordering.

Phoenix

Unfortunately, there was a problem with the bed frame and it got cancelled. So now I’m in a bit of a pickle. I ordered the 10 Leaf from Sleeping Organic (went with S/M/F config) and it should be coming any day now. Except we don’t have a bed frame. Maybe you can help me go through some of the things I’m looking at.

This platform from World Market - worldmarket.com/product/austen+queen+bed.do?. It says that there should be 14 slats, and a metal rail with a support leg. I’m going to call to confirm about the slats, but is that in the okay range?
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I’m also considering Structures Malouf highrise - Amazon.com. Ours will be an all Dunlop mattress, but I don’t remember what issues you brought up with regards to this type of foundation/frame.

And … any place else to look? Ideally, it should have some storage space in the bottom, and not too difficult to disassemble and reassemble (we tend to move often). I would really like to get the frame ready for when the mattress arrives, we already got rid of the old frame and have our mattress on the floor. Thanks.

Hi blackriderx,

The foundation post here should be helpful and includes the guidelines I would suggest for a latex mattress and includes some sources for some good options as well.

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I’m not familiar with this platform bed so I would want to make sure that it had gaps between the slats that were 3" or less but it does have a center beam with one support leg to the floor so this part would be OK. If the slats were 1x3’s it would probably be close but just a little over but if you wanted to “make it work” you could add something like the bed rug here to even out the support underneath the mattress.

This would certainly be strong enough but you can see my thoughts about wire grid support surfaces in post #10 here.

Phoenix

Regarding the steel grid: It’s not that you hear of any particular latex mattress maker or customer warning against these types of foundations, correct? Your weariness (if that) is from abundance of caution.

I was going to place some layers of the full size flat sheets underneath (since we won’t be using those as much anymore). Or perhaps getting the coconut bed rug a little later on.

Hi blackriderx,

Part of my “abundance of caution” comes from conversations with a few manufacturers who have shared their experience with some of these types of foundations leaving impressions in the latex over longer periods of time.

Phoenix

That was my initial reaction when I first saw the metal grid frames/foundations. I would think the metal grids would “cut” or “groove” into the latex. But I haven’t actually come across this problem while surfing the internet. And it seems a lot of your posters here use this type of frame.

But the bottom layer of the mattress has a cover. Assuming there’s additional layers of sheets or the coco rug, that should mitigate much of the issue?

Hi blackriderx,

I haven’t seen any comments about it on the internet either (outside of the forum here) but I have in some of my conversations with a few manufacturers. I think that the issue would be more apparent with some of the newer steel platform bedframes or foundations with larger gaps between the wires. Wooden slats generally have about a 50% support surface area (depending on the width of the slats and the gaps) while some of the wire grid type of foundations or platforms have a much lower percentage of contact area.

Yes … the type of cover would affect the risk of the latex impressing and with something like a bed rug I think that any risk would be minimized and it wouldn’t be a concern.

Phoenix

To keep things up to date, after the West Elm bed frame got cancelled, we scrambled for plan B and placed an order for the Austen with World Market. I actually never bought anything from World Market before, and they don’t have a store near me. I couldn’t get anymore information about the slats - over the phone - the central customer rep didn’t know and the store rep didn’t want to check the floor model for me. But if it was 14 slats, like Phoenix mentioned, it should be close to or meet the the 3 in. “rule”. If the gap is too wide, I’ll worry about it then, either supplementing (if possible) some DIY slats or a bed rug.

Already put an order in for 10 in. Leaf (S/M/F all in organic dunlop) with Sleeping Organic. Was suppose to arrive a little after the West Elm frame, but now the timing is a little screwy. But it’s okay, hopefully everything will be set up by next week.

Just some updates and more questions.

The World Market frame arrived but the Sleeping Organic mattress took a long time to ship. There was backorder for the mattress cover, which delayed things by a few weeks. The delay was annoying but it arrived and that’s all that matters.

The frame was easy to put together but needed two people. I have a question about the middle leg, it adjusts based on notches, and I’m at the lowest one but it’s about 1/4 inch off the ground, should it be touching the floor? In which case, I can try to insert another nut as a spacer, or maybe look to a third party option.

The mattress was also easy to put together though also aided by having a helper. Queen is heavy and bulky. Starting with S/M/F configuration. No instructions in box or website, but googling (and this site) helped with the instructions and expectations. The latex were marked with firmness, organic, and from India. If only organic option is Dunlop, I have to assume it’s Dunlop, right? I only ask because it felt slightly bouncier than I had previously tried, but it was month or two ago, so my memory might have fogged a bit.

All told, took less than an hour for everything.

This is about three nights in. Much better than my previous sleeping surfaces. My spouse thinks the mattress is quite good and is happy with it. I am able to sleep deeply. However, my lower back (back sleeper) has a bit of tension. I originally wanted something firmer than the S/M/F option since I like a firmer mattress but decided to start out with S/M/F to see how it goes. I’m not sure if the lower back tension is due to adjusting to the new mattress since I know it takes some time. And I had previously been sleeping on the sofa and had (worse) back discomfort. It hasn’t reached a painful level, and I’ve been sleeping fine, no waking up in the middle of the night, and very soundly, but there is still a bit of tension. It feels fine when I get out of bed and am walking around.

I’m going to keep at it for a couple more days before making any changes. But any thoughts?

Hi blackriderx,

Thanks for the update.

I’m glad that everything arrived OK and congratulations on your new mattress as well :slight_smile:

Yes … it should be firmly on the floor so provide good center support. You could also put something underneath it so that it can support the weight above it.

As you mentioned … I would give things a little more time (generally 2 weeks is a good minimum) so that your mattress can break in a little and your body can adjust to a new sleeping surface but you also have several options available if you need to adjust either the comfort or support of the mattress by rearranging layers (or an exchange if that turns out to be necessary). You can firm up the sleeping surface by putting the medium over the soft or you could firm up the support by putting the medium on the bottom and putting the firm directly underneath the soft top layer and of course a more detailed conversation with Sleeping Organic about any “symptoms” you may experience would give them the chance to make some suggestions as well.

Phoenix

After a couple of months, the mattress is too plush/soft/cushioned. We switched the layers to F/S/M, with medium on top (from F/M/S). But it’s still too soft.

We are past the 90 day period. But I was going to switch the layers again before calling Sleeping Organic. Is there a configuration that is recommended? Either S/F/M with medium on top, or is M/F/S better? I’m thinking the former. Thanks.

Hi blackriderx,

Unfortunately you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components would be the best “match” for you in terms of PPP based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Having said that … there is more detailed information about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.

There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can make the types of changes or additions to your mattress that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing.

If you are looking to firm up the feel of the sleeping surface then the changes that you made from (from the top down) from S/M/F to M/S/F would be the most common change that would firm up the upper layers of the mattress.

If you are looking to firm up the primary support of the mattress then changing from S/M/F to S/F/M would be the most common change.

These are the two ways to rearrange the layers that would generally meet the needs and preferences of most people with a 3 layer component system.

There are also some suggestions in post #2 here about a mattress that is too soft that may be helpful as well although most of these (outside of the suggestions about your support system or zoning) wouldn’t apply to a component mattress where the layers can be rearranged or exchanged.

Other than these … the next most likely option would be to replace the soft layer with a medium layer and try various layering configurations without the soft layer. The most likely of these would be M/M/F or M/F/M. If you have split layers then you can also try these on one side of the mattress to see how well it works for each of you and how any symptoms you are experiencing change with firmer configurations.

While it can depend on your weight, sleeping positions, and personal preferences and sensitivities … based on “averages” one of these configurations would generally work very well for the very large majority of people (although there are always a small minority that may be outside the “averages” that would work for most people)…

Phoenix