I recently bought a 9 " queen latex mattress foamsweetfoam.com. It was the dunlop material from Latex Green. I got the extra Medium/Firm/Extra Firm All Dunlop combination. Each layer is 3 inches. I also bought their wool mattress pad.
I bought my girlfriend the king Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme 2 Christmases ago for her new home, and we both love it very much. The only complaint we have is that is sleeps warmer in the summers.
When i decided to buy a new mattress for my place i wanted something that was Latex. After reviewing your sight i thought Latex would be better for me.
I am 5’11 and 200 lbs. My girlfriend is 5’4 and 115 lbs. I am a back sleeper 85% and 15% side with no back, neck, or shoulder pain issues. My girlfriend has back issues and shoulder issues, but she doesn’t sleep over. She might sleep on my bed maybe 3 times a year. She also sleeps like me back 85% and 15% side.
After I had received my bed I slept very well about 2 weeks. Afterwards, i notice that my body wants something softer, more closer to the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme, but nothing softer. I don’t mind a little firmer but, but not as firm as what i have now. FoamSweetFoam does allow me to change the layers. How would I replicate something similar to the Cloud Supreme in my situation? What firmness level should each of the 3 inch layers be?? I paid for the All dunlop, and i don’t think the owner would mind if some of them were Talalay. I would prefer all Dunlop.
Your help will be greatly appreciated… Many Thanks in advance!
Latex and memory foam are very much apples to oranges comparisons and they really don’t have an “equivalent” between them. Memory foam is a slow response material where the firmness varies with heat, humidity, and time while latex is a fast response material where the firmness is consistent in most conditions. There are also different types of memory foams with different types of responses which may feel very firm in some circumstances and very soft in others.
Most fast response foams (such as polyfoam and latex) are rated for firmness softness in ILD or IFD which are reasonably comparable to each other (if the testing uses the same protocol). With memory foam however … ILD is much less meaningful because it will vary with temperature, humidity, speed of compression, and time. Because it is partly viscous as well as elastic … it’s firmness will also depend on how fast you compress it (just like if you “slap” honey it will be firm but if you put your hand into it slowly it will be soft because it will take time to form to your shape).
Having said all that … most memory foam would be considered soft with an ILD range between about 8 to 18 (although as I mentioned it’s not really a meaningful spec with memory foam). ILD with memory foam is more useful to compare one type against another rather than against other materials. Because it is so soft … it isn’t use in support layers of a mattress (you would sink into the mattress too far with your heavier parts) and all memory foam mattresses need some type of firmer support layer underneath the memory foam.
With latex … 24 ILD is usually considered soft (which would be considered to be a very firm memory foam) and ILD’s in the upper teens or even lower teens are considered to be extra soft. It is very rare to find Dunlop latex that has an ILD as low as the upper teens (the softest is usually in the low to mid 20’s but there are a few exceptions) and medium Dunlop would be firmer yet (depending on the ILD that someone was calling medium because Dunlop isn’t consistent in it’s ILD from the top to the bottom of the layer of from end to end or side to side).
Talalay latex tends to come in softer versions than Dunlop. Blended Talalay is available in 19 ILD or 14 ILD which if you were forced to make a comparison would be the closest to memory foam in ILD terms but this would be very misleading and it certainly wouldn’t be “equivalent”.
So overall there really isn’t any comparison between memory foam and latex and even comparisons between different memory foams can be “tricky”. Post #8 here along with post #9 here talk about all the many variables involved in comparing the feel and performance of different types of memory foam. If you were “forced” to make the closest approximation it would probably be the softest versions of blended Talalay or perhaps a Dunlop layer that was legitimately in the upper teens in terms of ILD but again they would still be very different. You can read a little more about the different versions of latex in this article.
One thing that most people would agree on though is that “medium” Dunlop would feel firmer than most versions of memory foam regardless of the type of memory foam you were comparing or the circumstances. The softest possible Dunlop layer would be closer if you wanted to stick with Dunlop (it would probably be in the range of low/mid 20’s).
First off thanks for your quick response… It is very informative! Buying a bed is soo… frustrating!! I thought i had the right bed when i first ordered it!
I now know i won’t be able to duplicate the feel of the Cloud Supreme, But if I wanted to duplicate or get very close to the support and comfort of the Cloud Supreme (a little bit firmer is acceptable) from the source I am getting my latex from that will suit me best. What will be the closest combination of the 3 layers that are 3 inch each of the dunlop latex???
I have now tried Med/Firm/Firm and it tad more softer/conforming/comforting on the top layer as compared with what I originally bought. Still feel that it could be a little more softer/conforming/comforting on the top layers
I have also tried Med/Med/Firm and it is very conforming/comforting and fell more cloud-like than the above. It felt very soothing to lay on. It also feels very springy, which i don’t mind. Is the support layer good enough for me?
Will Soft/Med/Firm, or Soft/Med/Extra Firm, or Med/Med/Extra firm work better for me, or some other combination? I am looking for the best fit for me from the source i am getting my bed from, that will give me the best sleep possible many many years to come.
All mattresses really have two basic functions (see the first overview) which is pressure relief (often called comfort) and alignment (often called support). You can see the different types of materials and components that are used in the support cores of a mattress to provide alignment/support in the second overview here. All the materials that are used to provide pressure relief/comfort in a mattress are listed in the third overview here.
Any of the support materials or components in the right firmness can provide you with the support you need (as an example the Tempurpedic support layers use good quality polyfoam) in the right firmness level. In addition to this … any of the materials used in the comfort layers can provide you with the comfort/pressure relief you need in the right thickness and softness. Even though each material can provide you with good alignment and pressure relief (in the right firmness/softness levels and layer thickness and combinations) … they will still feel very different and some people will translate how a material responds and feels (as opposed to how pressure relieving it is) into a perception of softness and firmness. For example memory foam is a slow response material and takes a while to get soft with heat so some people who are more sensitive to the “instant” feel of memory foam or how it feels when they move or change positions may call it firm while others who are more sensitive to how it feels when it is warmer or when they are lying in one position will call the same layer soft. Each person’s definition of soft and firm can be very different.
Tempurpedic doesn’t list the ILD (firmness level) of their polyfoam layers so the only way to match or “measure” the support level is to test for alignment when you are actually lying on the mattress in all your sleeping positions (the goal of a firmer support material is to prevent the heavier parts of your body from sinking down too far so you have good spinal alignment). If your alignment is good in all your sleeping positions then your support layers are the right ILD. In an apples to apples comparison (with similar ILD’s) latex is actually a more supportive material than polyfoam because it gets firmer faster with deeper compression and is also more adaptable to different body shapes than polyfoam (more point elastic) so if anything the support of your Dunlop latex mattress is probably better than the Tempurpedic.
In a similar way … the only way to “measure” pressure relief would be to actually test the layering in person. Softer latex (as soft as they have available) would come closer to the Cloud (which uses softer and thicker layers of memory foam) and soft Talalay would probably come closer than soft Dunlop IMO to matching the pressure relief and feel of the Cloud Supreme. You may also need an additional topper because the memory foam comfort layers in the Cloud Supreme are 4" thick (2" each of softer 4 lb memory foam and firmer 5.3 lb memory foam) and the latex comfort layer in your mattress is only 3" thick. Probably the closest you could get though would be a more typical F/M/S (or XF/M/S) layering in Talalay (or at least Talalay on top). Since the top layer is the biggest contributor to what most people call “comfort” … a soft Talalay over the Dunlop middle and lower layers that you have may be close enough for your preferences but each person may be very different in what they consider soft and firm. If you do choose Dunlop in the top layer then I don’t think that any of them would really come that close to the Tempurpedic Cloud (although the softest Dunlop they carried would come the closest). I would also suggest talking with Foam Sweet Foam to get their suggestions as well.
Any support layer that keeps your spine in good alignment is fine. Your own testing would always be more accurate in determining this than any “theory at a distance”. Latex is more supportive than other materials so firm/medium Dunlop support layers would be fine for most people.
Again … your own personal testing for pressure relief and support/alignment would be the most accurate way to know (there is no “formula” that can determine this because there are so many variables between different people) but if I had to guess I would probably suggest F/M/S … especially if you were using Dunlop which has a higher support factor (gets firmer faster) than Talalay or polyfoam.
I really can’t stress enough though that your own personal testing is always more accurate than any “theory at a distance” and that the best guidance will always come from the people that make the mattress who have the most detailed knowledge of the specifics of their layers and components and the benefit of a large customer base that they can use as a reference point to help “match” what you are looking for. They are knowledgeable about their mattresses and materials and very helpful with their customers.