Where to try all latex mattress in San Francisco Bay Area

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi there,

In our pursuit for a mattress I stumbled upon themattressunderground.com. What a fantastic portal and forum ! So much priceless information in one place!

I did my homework, and read all the articles related to mattress design, spent some time reading this wast forum with its endless posts. The info you guys provide is just unbelievable. Phoenix, it is really rare to see such a knowledgeable and yet so helpful person like you are. Thank you so much!

Ok, lets get back to the point:

We have decided to go with all or nearly all latex mattress, primarily because of quality, comfort and durability. We have visited few mattress stores in the San Francisco Bay Area and found a mattress that we liked.

It is the “Stearns & Foster Luxury Latex English Manor House” queen size mattress:
http://www.sleepworld.com/catalog/product-details-mattress?mattress=6315

The sales person, of course, had no idea about the construction details of the mattress. He was just reading what was written the mattress tag. But, naturally, the sales pitch was there, with all the buzzwords… just like expected. Another conclusion we made by trying out other mattresses is that we don’t like how the memory foam feels. That just reassured us to go with latex.

However, we have troubles finding a mattress store which has a showroom with full latex mattress. We know of Baybed in Santa Cruz, and we plan to visit them next weekend. They seem to build their mattresses with a zoned pocketed coil support layer with multiple latex layers on top. We are open to coil support layer, as long as it is comparably durable as latex.

We have used the customsleepdesign’s custom latex mattress designer based on our body profiles. Here is what we received from them:

Me (back sleeper)

  • 2" soft 19 ILD (for upper body) + 2" medium 28 ILD (for lower body)
  • 3" medium firm 32 ILD
  • 6" firm 36 ILD

My wife (side sleeper):

  • 2" ultra soft 14 ILD (for upper body) + 2" soft ILD (for lower body)
  • 3" soft 19 ILD (for upper body) + 3" medium 28 ILD (for lower body)
  • 6" firm 36 ILD

Unfortunately, the price is more than we had in mind ($2.7k).

How does this compare to the “Stearns & Foster Luxury Latex English Manor House” which has the following:

  • 8.75 inch Smart Latex Interlock Support System
  • Cashmere
  • High Loft Fiber
  • 1 inch HyperSoft
  • 1.5 inch x 1/2 inch convoluted HyperSoft
  • 1 inch HD SuperSoft Foam

Again, we would really like to try an all latex mattress in person, if possible. We are open to purchasing an modular latex mattress online and then replace layers if necessary.

Thanks for any advise you can provide,

rikelme

2

Hi rikelme,

It really doesn’t compare at all and they are very much apples to oranges comparisons.

The Stearns & Foster is the type of “so called” latex mattress that I would avoid. The “smart latex” is mostly synthetic Dunlop and there is 3.5" of lower quality polyfoam on the top of the mattress which means that you are sleeping primarily on polyfoam not latex. This would be the weal link of the mattress and the reason that so many people see foam softening and body impressions so quickly with many of the Stearns & Foster mattresses. In most cases the foam softening is the issue and the body impressions are usually less than the warranty exclusion. Many people have seen this happen at around the 3 - 5 year mark (and there are several that have talked about it on the forum) but some experience it more quickly. If this happens then you would need to remove the lower quality polyfoam and replace it with higher quality materials (such as latex) or you would have to replace the mattress completely. In a few cases if you are “lucky” then you may qualify for a warranty replacement if the impressions are deep enough (or if you wait long enough) but this is not the norm and then you would be limited to another mattress that most likely had the same issues.

The Custom Sleep Design uses much higher quality materials with no weak links in the mattress, is custom zoned to your body specifications, and they will work with you and replace any of the zones that may be necessary until your mattress is “ideal”. A zoned mattress like this or any mattress really can’t be meaningfully compared to a mattress that uses a completely different designs and materials except to say it is much better quality and value.

Post #1 here and the links it includes has all the basic information, steps and guidelines you would need to make the best possible choices and learn how to avoid mattresses like the Stearns & Foster or any mattress where the information about the quality of the materials inside them are not available to you.

Post #2 here has the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the San Francisco area and quite a few of these make or sell latex mattresses. I don’t keep a list of mattress styles that each retailer or manufacturer carries on their floor (this would be constantly changing and impossible to keep up with) but some quick research on their sites and a few quick phone calls will identify the ones that carry latex mattresses that you can test.

The list of online manufacturers that are members here (and many of them make and sell latex mattresses of various designs (including designs where you can choose your own layers or components) is in post #21 here.

Phoenix

3

Phoenix,

Thanks for your prompt and thorough reply.

I knew that it is not an all latex mattress when I saw “HD SuperSoft Foam” in the comfort layer, but I didn’t know that it was such a bad material. We’ll be checking out most if not all stores you have listed.

Thanks again for your generous help!

4

I don’t know which part of the Bay Area you are in, but in the East Bay you could try Earthsake (carries several latex brands) or European Sleepworks. I ended up getting a hybrid natural latex/european pocket coil mattress from Select Sleep Center in Union City, but they don’t carry as wide a range of latex types and softnesses as some of the others.

5

Thanks Valli !

We’ll visit both EarthSake and Sleepworks for sure. We’re not in a rush, and will choose our mattress carefully.

6

An update:

We’ve visited Select Sleep Center and European Sleepworks today. Don, the owner of the Select Sleep Center, was very friendly, calm and knowledgeable. The pocketed coil + 4" dunlop latex mattress was our first pick there and the price seems very competitive. They do not carry talalay latex, only dunlop which is either blend of 50% natural + 50% synthetic or 100% natural (from latexco). The price difference between the two, with the same support layer for the queen bed is $200, which for us personally is not a big deal and we asked Don for his advice. Surprisingly, when we asked him is the 100% natural latex worth those $200 extra, Don said no - even it would make sense that he would advise us to go after a more expensive, natural latex. The blended dunlop latex that they are using, according to him, is high quality and as durable as natural, and almost exactly the same as the natural in regards of the characteristics. He was very pleasant gentlemen and seemed trustworthy. We we’ll probably go with him, but we’ll first checkout the Bay Bed in Santa Cruz first, just to be sure that we don’t miss anything there which would be better for us. We are still not sure which firmness should we go with, but the good thing is that they allow 6 months for free comfort layer exchange. The other thing is that you can go with 2" + 2" latex comfort layers of different firmness, instead of one 4" layer.

The European sleepworks has more variety of mattresses. They are more pricey compared to Select Sleep Center. Their hybrid (coil + latex) mattresses have only 2" of latex. We’ve tried the all latex mattress (dunlop support + talalay comfort) but we agreed that pocketed coil support layer feels better for us.

Thanks again for your hints !

7

Hi rikelme,

You are certainly looking at some great options :slight_smile:

I don’t have personal experience comparing the Puralux to 100% natural Dunlop but like all latex it’s certainly a durable material and there’s no doubt it’s less costly than the natural. I have had a range of feedback from different people whose judgement I trust who have tested it for its “feel” and performance compared to 100% natural Dunlop and I think it would be a matter of personal preference because the feedback has been somewhat mixed. It would also depend on the total construction of the mattress as well.

I’m looking forward to hearing about what you end up choosing.

Phoenix

8

I’m curious as well to hear about your experience with Bay Beds in Santa Cruz. I didn’t know that Select Sleep offered both natural and blended latex, I checked the label on ours and it says 100% natural latex. Maybe I was clear that I only wanted natural options so they didn’t present the other as an option. One thing I would ask about is whether they can do a zippered cover. I think the ones in the store are zippered, but the one we received is not, although it’s a very nice organic cotton wool blend. It would be nice to have the option to unzip it to try out different layers at some point. We are basically still very happy with ours, although I do wish slightly that they had more firmness levels to try. Given a choice, I would have liked to try a slightly firmer dunlop latex layer covered by an even plusher layer. The two latex firmnesses they have are both on the soft/med side, but not quite as cushiony as the talalay pillow I have. I ordered a mulberry silk topper pad last week, and I’m curious to see if that adds anything in terms of breathability and silky cushioning. The latex sleeps much cooler than the Simmons pillowtop, but the waterproof membrane mattress cover we have is not as breathable as I would like. Both DH and I are very happy with the innerspring layers we chose, and it’s solved our decades long problem of preferring different firmness levels. Having the split innersprings also reduces motion in the bed, although the pocketed coils are good for that as well. We worked with Cho, the younger sales guy, and I also get the sense that they will bargain a bit, especially if you are considering other options.

9

An update:

So, in the end we bought a 2" soft + 2" firm 50% blend dunlop latex comfort on top of the pocketed coil support layer from Select Sleep Center. We payed $1310 for mattress and $40 for the delivery (now I see they offer a coupon for $200 off + free deliver on their website :pinch:

We got the mattress 2 weeks ago. For first few days we were getting used to our new mattress and experienced some backache and neck stiffness in the morning. We knew that it is a common thing and didn’t make a big deal of it. After a few days, pain from the upper back and neck gradually decreased, but increased in the lumbar (lower back) part. Even now, after two weeks we wake up with noticeable lower back pain. It felt like the mattress is sinking too much in the hips area and once I removed the sheets I noticed that indeed, the part of the mattress in the hip area on both mine and my wife’s side sank and is lower that the other parts of the mattress. In addition the latex in that area seems to be softer i.e. less resistant than other parts of the comfort layer. Ant it’s not like that it recovers, that is, levels up later during the day - it stays like that, slightly but noticeably sank. By looking at it you wouldn’t say that the mattress is only 2 weeks old (new), it looks like a few years old mattress (ignoring the really nice cotton cover).

For some reason I checked the label and to my surprise it said 100% natural latex, even though we ordered a 50% blend dunlop latex version which was $200 cheaper than all natural one. Why would they give as the more expensive latex for free?

The way I see it is that there are two options:

  1. They offer 6 months replacement period during which you can tweak the firmness of your comfort layer. You would take your comfort layer to their store, they would unsew the cover, replace the latex layer that same day and you would take the mattress back home. What happens to the already used latex layers? The surely don’t throw them away… My guess is that they just put in in a next mattress they sell. And again, that same latex can be returned within next 6 months and placed in a yet new mattress. And it can happen again, and again… So you never know how old latex layer are you getting when you buy a “new” mattress. This may explain why the mattress has sank in the hips area already.

  2. If they really always sell only brand new latex comfort layers, and never reuse the old ones, than the quality of the latex is really bad. How is it possible that it losses its shape so fast ?

Phoenix, I wanted to get an advice from you before I go back to store, just to confirm that dunlop latex, at least one from reputable manufacturer like latexco, should not loose its shape so fast.

Any advise would do. I plan to go to the store next weekend, as I want to give another week to our bodies to adjust to the new mattress. But the holes in the heap areas really annoy us.

Thanks !

10

Hi rikelme,

Post #2 here outlines some of the steps you can check if you have some softening or comfort issues with your mattress but the first step is always to talk with the manufacturer or retailer of your mattress.

I can’t see your mattress (a picture would help) so I don’t know if what you are experiencing is normal or unusual (different people have a different definition of a slight impression) but it is normal for any mattress to go through an initial softening or break in period and this will happen faster under the heavier areas of the body than it will under the lighter areas of the body or the parts of the mattress that aren’t used. It’s also normal for each person to take some time to get used to a new sleeping system. Turning the mattress 180% (or 1/4 turn in the case of a king size) can help even out the process. This doesn’t usually lead to significant impressions though although some initial very slight impressions are normal (and this would also depend on the materials and quilting in the cover because if there is natural fiber in your quilting then it will have a slight impression as well).

You can also check to see if a specific layer is impressing by laying it out on the floor and then putting a straight edge or a string across it to highlight any impressions.

I don’t know … you would need to ask them.

Again you would need to ask them what they do with their returned layers. It’s not likely at all though that they would re-use them in a mattress.

It would be helpful to have a picture or to know the exact layering of your mattress (including the cover and quilting). If it is one of the latex layers that is impressing then you could determine this by putting it on the floor so you can “track down” where the impression is coming from. It would be unusual for latex to do this although it’s certainly not unheard of either (you can see a few reports on the forum of similar experiences) and there will always be some percentage of latex (or any material) that is defective in which case it should be replaced. Before you replace it though I would make sure it’s the latex and not caused by other layers, components, or parts of your sleeping system.

Hopefully you will have a chance to talk with them and of course I’ll be interested in hearing what they have to say.

Phoenix

11

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the reply.

The quilting is made from wool and cotton - no fibers or anything else.

I’ve took your advice and put the mattress on the floor and stretched the sewing thread over the mattress. The impressions are clearly there - at the lowest point they are 1/2" deep (over a 1cm). There are also shallower impressions in the shoulder area, as expected.

I’ve took the picture of the mattress if it can help. Please see the linked picture (for some reason I can’t add it as an attachment). The impressions should be noticeable.

As for the initial softening and breaking-in of the mattress - we expected it to happen but didn’t expect it would be so noticable :slight_smile:

For now we have rotated the mattress by 180° (our heads are where our feet were) as the impressions are not exactly in the middle of the mattress. It definitely feel stiffer now in the hips’ area. I’m thinking about walking all over the mattress to speed up the softening process :slight_smile:

If after a two more weeks (4 weeks total) we still have lower back issues, we’ll definitely replace the mattress. But I’m not sure should we ask for a firmware top layer or stick with this combo of firmness.

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12

Hi rikelme,

Thanks for the pictures :slight_smile:

Did you talk with Don?

While I don’t know the specific details of your mattress … it seems to me that the wool in the quilting (wool is a natural fiber) is probably a big part of the small impressions you are experiencing and if this is the case then it would be completely normal. This would be part of the initial settling and compression of the materials and it’s not likely to get deeper after the initial “breaking in” phase. It’s very unlikely that this would be the latex.

If this is the case then as you use the other areas of the mattress this will also even out to some degree.

Phoenix

13

Hi Pheonix,

Thanks again for blazing fast reply.

No, I haven’t talked to Don yet. I felt that I would get more unbiased and objective response here, from you. Also, I want to give the mattress time to break in and soften, as you said. If we still experience low back issues in the morning I’ll definitely talk with Don.

I took your advise and spent some time walking slowly on the mattress, focusing on other areas which would normally get less pressures from our bodies to speed up the softening process.

Thanks again !

14

California Mattress in Campbell has a good selection of Organic Pedic, Diamond, and Pure Latex Bliss Mattresses in the store - might be worth checking out as well.

15

Hi vinsub,

I not so sure they are looking for a new mattress … but thanks for the feedback :slight_smile:

Are you connected to California Mattress (it’s not the norm that someone’s first post is to suggest a specific store to someone else when they have never posted here before so I thought I would check)?

Phoenix

16

Hi Phoenix, no problem - totally understand why you would ask. I am not connected to them in any way - just visited the store a few days ago as I’m in the market for a new latex bed and thought I would throw their name out there.

I’ve been following this site for quite a while and you are very unique in cutting through a lot of the BS that’s out there on latex/ “all natural” mattresses (I was THIS close to buying an astra bed for example) and giving us the straight scoop. Thanks for doing it!

17

Hi vinsub,

Thanks for the clarification … and for not taking offense at the question … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

It’s important to me that this site isn’t used for “hidden advertising” so I had to ask.

And thanks again for the store suggestion as well.

Phoenix

18

An update:
Even after a month we still have back issues while sleeping - lower back for me, and middle outside part of back for my wife.
After discussion win Don we decided to replace the top 2" soft latex layer with the firm one. So what we have now is 2" + 2" firm dunlop latex on top of pocketed coils. We’ll give it a try a couple of weeks or so. I dropped off the latex part of the mattress to the store yesterday and picked it up today. So last night, we decided to sleep on the pocketed coils with some thick blanket on top of it. Comfort was not great, but to our surprise when we woke up this morning, our back pain was almost nonexistent! It was there, but noticeable less intense than usual. It seems that our bodies prefer firmer mattress. If this 2"+2" firm latex combo still doesn’t help, next step would be to go with 2" firm latex only. We are getting there… slowly :slight_smile:

19

Hi rikelme,

Your experience on just the mattress coils with the blanket is very interesting and may be “synchronicity in action”. It certainly provides a useful guideline as to the direction you need to go (firmer/thinner comfort layers).

I hope you have the chance to keep us up to date on your experiences and I’m interested in what your “final” layering will turn out to be.

Thanks for the update.

Phoenix