Zenhaven Mattress

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
41

I would think any perceptible sag/deflection in your foundation could make a difference in your sensation of firmness, the overall comfort, and possibly even the durability of the mattress.

I’ve seen pictures of the Zenhaven foundation. A picture isn’t much to go on, but to my eyes the slats appear to be too far apart (relative to recommendations one sees for latex mattresses). A little give in an individual slat is one thing (maybe even desirable?), but if you press down simultaneously across several slats, using your forearm or a board to distribute pressure, do they bend much under your body weight?

I used an exciting online tool called the “Sagulator” to predict slat sag/deflection (yes, I know, I need to get out more). I figured a 5 pound load per linear foot of 3/4" thick poplar slat (using a generous estimate for total mattress + human weight, divided by slat surface area). Sagulator computed a total sag of .11 inch over the 60" width of each fixed slat, which it deems “acceptable” … for a book shelf without fibromyalgia.

42

Hi Cloud999.

Thanks for your contribution to TMU’s Forum and providing an interesting concept in the use of the online Sagulator tool. Unfortunately, the tool does not translate to the physics of a mattress foundation for a number of reasons, but it’s a provocative concept nonetheless. :slight_smile: Zenhaven ( by Saatva) mattresses are produced through a network of independent contract manufacturers throughout the US (and also now in Canada, I believe). These mattress manufacturers have their own design and specification for wood foundations which are primarily low-cost offerings that are made and sold to regional mattress retailers. If you visit the Zenhaven website, you will notice there are not any details or transparency about the foundations other than 2 height options available. In general, the quality of the foundations is controlled by the regional contract manufacturer. The designs are fairly similar as most are “industry standard” promotional wood foundations. These designs are prone to making having noise from the wood (and in many instances, cardboard) movement under the mattress. However, the promotional wood foundation design has shown that is can properly support most mattress systems. While this design is not one TMU recommends, it is widely used and is an economical alternative. I’d keep in mind that using a promotional wood foundation under a luxury mattress appears to be a risky way to save a few dollars.

Phoenix

43

The “Sagulator” is designed to predict shelf sag (not bed slat sag). I wonder how hard it would be to adapt it to show whether a certain number of slats, of specified size/spacing/etc., could handle a specific mattress?

Meanwhile, I go by an old carpentry/woodworking adage: “When in doubt, build it stout”. I bought a bed frame that appeared to be well made, from an apparently reputable furniture maker. Then I beefed it up even more (by adding a hardwood center rail). I’m now fairly confident that it will not sag significantly during the usable life of the mattress. I’m not sure I could say that about something like the Zenhaven foundation (given the apparent slat spacing and lack of specifications.)

44

Hi Cloud999! I’m getting ready to call SleepEZ and thought I’d check in and see how you were liking yours, any “discoveries” I should know about?

Zenhaven 2.0 has not had all the failures of the original one they sent but it’s still not “my” bed. Making it work with 2 toppers, which makes me feel like the fancy mattress buried 3" deep isn’t worth it.

45

I wanted to revisit something Phoenix mentioned above…that the promotional wood foundations are a risky way to save a few dollars.

Is it even a savings at $260 a pop? What would a good foundation cost?

I never would have bought the foundation had I looked harder on the forum…it just never occurred to me they wouldn’t make a foundation up to the same quality as the bed!

(Then again…with the latest glue seam find today in the sleeping portion of the mattress…I’m not sure what that quality really is? Better than the average bed in a box, I think, but not as good as the marketing would make you think.)

46

Crap. The new foundation is starting to fail. It’s not as dramatic as last time, but I took out a level and checked the slats. Without a center support in the foundation, it’s bowing to center. Which makes the whole mattress bow to center…

I don’t even sleep in the center. I’m not that hefty at 135lbs. I’ve only slept on it for about 3 months.

47

Hey sweetandsourkiwi,

Sorry to hear about the foundation, not sure what there policy will be but it is not surprising especially given the weight of the mattress…although even the most basic box springs do not show that much failure at three months.

Good foundations can be a lot more than $250.

There is more information about the different types of support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses and some examples of each of them in this post. I would also keep in mind that these are general guidelines and some manufacturers have requirements that may be different so I would always confirm with the retailer or manufacturer of your mattress that any support system you are planning to use under the specific mattress you purchase meets their warranty requirements and guidelines.

Thanks
Sensei

48

Thank you Sensei! Yep, this is the second one of their foundations to fail…I know the TMU line is to buy the foundation the manufacturer recommends but I would say in Zenhaven’s case…don’t. For other Zenhaven owners, please do note that slat foundations VOID the warranty unless there is a solid surface over them. I would rather do slats for ventilation but fortunately it’s not very humid here.

Zenhaven will allow me return the foundation in this instance.

Thank you for the link! I have attempted to wade through some of the 76 pages in the foundation page but lots to take in! Ultimately for me I think a new foundation will be secondary to dialing down a mattress, so it’s all warranty-approved and such.

Thank you for your continued help!

49

Hey sweetandsourkiwi,

Since you are such a prolific poster, I orginally wanted to send you 176 pages of links, but I figured you could do the 76 pages in half an hour or so… :slight_smile: :wink:

50

Lol…yes, I deserved that!! Once this saga is over, I am going to write a summary and probably delete this hot mess (if I have that power!)

51

Hi sweetandsourkiwi,

Sorry to hear about your mattress/foundation saga. It reminds me a bit of our similar saga - going through at least 10 different mattresses over a year and half period. We tossed and turned, couldn’t get the pressure relief or back support right, and woke up most mornings in pain and exhausted. We also finally explored the latex option (thanks to this site), and had similar experiences with having to swap out latex layers, having issues with firm wool covers, etc. We got to the point where we almost gave up - and just assumed we wouldn’t be able to get a comfortable, decent night’s sleep again.

Then we discovered Nest Bedding’s Hybrid Natural Latex mattress, and it was nothing short of a revelation. It worked right out of the box, no need to swap out latex layers, etc. We’ve had great sleep since. It’s a great combination of pressure relief (no more sore shoulders or hips), while still providing plenty of support (no more achy backs). My wife deals with fibromyalgia, and was in constant pain with every other mattress we tried. She’s been fine on the Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress ever since. It’s the first mattress we’ve come across where we don’t want to get out of bed in the morning because it’s so comfortable. We can’t recommend it highly enough. As soon as we tried it out in the store, we knew that this was a special mattress. And it was the first mattress to work right away - hardly a break-in period needed at all (which was not the case with any other mattress we tried).

We’re lightweight side/combo sleepers, and have been using the mattress for about 3 months now. No issues at all. We were a little hesitant at first about the EcoFlex quilting layer (Would it give out? Would it be too warm?), but it’s worked out really well. The owner has a post in another thread where he explains why he went with this particular design - given that the traditional latex/wool cover design can often be too firm for some sleepers - and our experience matches his approach. The foam quilting and stretch cover provide great pressure relief, while the Dunlop latex provides excellent support without being too firm, either. Again, it’s a great combination.

The nice thing, too, is Nest Bedding’s warranty. Should anything go wrong, the coverage is there. That said, it’s such a well-made product that it’s not really a concern. We have the wood foundation from Nest Bedding as well. We’ve been using it for almost a year now, and it’s worked great for us - very solid and looks sharp, too. No dips, heat retention, etc. - just solid support. We originally had Nest Bedding’s previous latex mattress - the former design - which we couldn’t get to work right, even though they provided a number of comfort adjustments for us. As soon as this current model came out, all of our issues went away.

Here’s the current combo that we have (mattress & foundation) if you’re still looking for something. We love our Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress so much that we got a second one for our guest bedroom - which our guests love as well. Hope this helps, and happy to answer any questions that you may have…

Good luck!

52

Thank you for the thoughts @Nesthaven! I will say I got to try a similar coils+latex bed locally and liked it alright. I am curious which other mattresses you tried—10 is a lot! You must have learned a ton…I’ve learned a lot just from having one not-quite-right one!

53

My pleasure - and yes, we have learned quite a bit. Like you, we’ve learned probably far more than we ever wanted to about mattresses. Up until about almost two years ago, we were able to walk in, simply pick out a mattress, and be done with it. That how it was for every other mattress that we’ve each owned until we needed to get a new mattress a couple of years ago. And then it became mattress shopping hell. Again, good to be free of it.

Here are the mattresses that we tried:

  1. Brentwood Home Sequoia (from Costco): A latex hybrid mattress that felt like sleeping on concrete. Was very firm, my wife felt like she was on fire with her fibromyalgia constantly, and I woke up sore all over, too. We tried it for a month - then sent it back.

  2. Brentwood Home Coronado (from Costco): A gel hybrid mattress that was a tad softer, but not by much. Still pretty firm, and this one slept rather warm. We slept on it for about a month as well before sending it back. We couldn’t get comfortable on this one, either.

  3. Saatva - Luxury Firm (online): Similar to the Brentwood Home Sequoia, this one felt like sleping on concrete, too. My wife was constantly flared up, and neither of us slept well. Tried it for a month - then sent it back.

  4. Saatva - Plush (online): Thinking that the Luxury Firm was too firm, we opted for the Plush version. This one felt weirdly firm yet overly squishy, too. Neither of us got comfortable, and it felt like we were sinking in too much - only then to feel like we were sleeping on a wood board. Tried it for a month as well, then sent it back.

  5. Aireloom Hybrid - Firm (store): Since our online luck hadn’t work, we went back to the traditional route and purchased an Aireloom (which was our previous mattress of 10 year) that was supposedly firm, but felt way too soft. It knocked my back out to the point that I needed to go to a chiropractor - not enough support. We sent this one back within a week.

  6. Serta Perfect Sleeper - Super Pillowtop (store): Stuck with having to exchange our Aireloom mattress for something else at the store, we opted for this one. It was a gel hybrid and felt fine in the store, having spent a good 30-45 minutes on it. However, when we got ours at home, it proved to be a bit firm and never really broke in. Since we couldn’t exchange anymore, we gave this about 8 months. But since our sleep continued to deteriorate, we went back looking for a new mattress.

  7. Leesa (online): We ordered the Leesa after trying it out in a store and reading all of the good reviews on it. Once we got it in, though, it stunk of rotten fish. My wife is sensitive to smells, too, so this wasn’t going to work. We tried letting it air out for a couple of weeks, but the smell never dissipated. Since the mattress itself was so-so comfort-wise, we sent it back.

  8. Intellibed (online): Based on all the issues we were having, our chiropractor recommended this bed - saying that the gel matrix would be a perfect fit for us. Unfortunately, it was quite the opposite. Perhaps because we are on the lighter-weight side, the gel matrix didn’t seem to collapse enough to give us proper contouring for our shoulders and hips. As a result, it felt like we were sleeping on a rock. We toughed it out for a month, then ended up sleeping on our old guest bed - and sent the Intellibed back as well.

  9. Nest Bedding (store): Not wanting to roll the dice again on an online purchase, we tried out Nest Bedding’s previous Hybrid Latex mattress (the one with the Talalay latex and wool cover). We liked the 28ILD medium version in the store, and pushed a Queen for our master bedroom and a Full for our guest bedroom. We had some issues get the feel right with these mattresses. The Full felt firmer than the Queen, although the set up was the same. Even the Queen was a bit too firm. We tried swapping out latex layers to improve the comfort level, but couldn’t get it to work. We even had the mattress cover replaced on our Queen mattress, but that only made it firmer. Nest Bedding’s customer service team was great in trying to help us. We gave both mattresses 90 days to break in, but we couldn’t get comfortable enough - our shoulders hurt, even with softer comfort layers. We resolved that the mattress didn’t work for us, and Nest Bedding provided a refund.

  10. Avocado Mattress (online): At the recommendation of a few friends (plus stellar reviews online), we decided to give the Avocado Pillowtop mattress a try. This was one of the most uncomfortable mattresses that we tried. The zoned coils (firmer in the middle) did not work for us. Our backs felt bowed in the bed. And even with the pillowtop, it was a really firm mattress. We couldn’t get comfortable - and sent it back after a month.

  11. Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex (store): This mattress finally proved to be a winner for us. Right away, when we tested it out in the store, we noticed the improvements over the previous version. The EcoFlex quilting provided more contouring support than the previous wool cover did, and it struck a perfect balance between supporting our shoulders/hips and giving us plenty of back support. We didn’t need to adjust anything with this mattress - and our sleep improved as soon as we started sleeping on this mattress. Sure, it needed a little bit to break in. But even out of the box, it’s been better than anything else we’ve tried. It’s like the mattresses we used to buy over the years - it simply works right out of the gate. The combination of the EcoFlex foam, the Dunlop latex, and the non-zoned coils works perfectly for us. And no sleeping hot in it, either.

So, that’s been our journey. Again, after almost two years of miserable sleep, we’re so glad to be in our Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress. They’ve hit the nail on the head with that design, indeed, in our opinion.

Hope that helps, and happy to answer any other questions that you may have…

54

Wow, quite the journey! I thought you said above you got into latex and layer swaps…did you ever try any of the all-latex layer beds or was that referring to the first Nest Bedding bed?

Was Nest Bedding accommodating about selling you another bed? One of my fears is that I’ll return the Zenhaven, realize it was as close as I was going to get, and then not be able to buy it again.

55

We got into latex swaps with our initial Nest Bedding mattresses - the Talalay Hybrid Latex one. We started with the 28ILD medium version, tried the 19ILD comfort topper (too soft), as well as tried a 24ILD latex layer (no noticeable difference). There was a tear in our original Queen cover, which Nest Bedding ended up replacing the entire mattress casing to fix - but that made our mattress even firmer with a tauter cover. After that experience, we sorta gave up on trying to dial in latex layers - a bit too much of a hassle for us given our long mattress journey at that point.

So, we did not try building an all-latex mattress. We didn’t relish the possibility of having to go through more rounds of back-and-forth fixes potentially. Fortunately, we came across the new version of the Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress, which took care of all that - and saved us needing to make any further adjustments. That simplicity really appealed to us after 10 mattresses.

As for returning mattresses and buying from the same seller again, that is a roll of the dice. Each seller is different. Nest Bedding did go above and beyond to help us get situated - a level of customer service one doesn’t really encounter anymore. That said, we know that companies have a business to run as well, and it’s up to their discretion. Fortunately, we had a family member get our mattresses as a gift, so that alleviated needing to circle back with them again. They simply ordered online and sent the mattresses over to us. We’re certainly grateful with how everything worked out, and we can’t recommend Nest Bedding highly enough.

56

Thank you NestHaven. You’ve certainly got me considering the hybrid. I have tried to ascertain this from the many articles on this site, but am not sure…maybe one of the experts can chime in.

Which is more durable/longlasting (including through layer upgrades), an all-latex layer mattress or a hybrid like the Nest Latex? To be specific, I am comparing a 9 or 10" 3-layer latex bed to either of the Nest’s latex hybrid options (natural or organic).

Is there a big difference? It seems the weakest link on the Nest Hybrid natural would be the eco-flex foam in the encasement, which I imagine the company would allow you to replace if it broke down and the rest of the bed was good to go.

57

NestHaven, thanks to you I’ve spent a fair bit of time re-considering the Latex Hybrid. While I’ve leaned towards building my own component bed, I didn’t get the handholding I’d hoped for from the manufacturer and don’t feel qualified to make all the decisions. I still might take a leap of faith, but I also wonder if perhaps I’m trying too hard to make an all natural, all latex product work for me. It fits my values but it may not fit my fibromyalgia! I’m also worried given how hard this decision has been for me, that I’m going to second guess and get myself into endless swaps…never to actually settle on a darn mattress…

Plus, and this is more of an admin q, I can’t figure out WHY the Zenhaven hurts my shoulder so much…if it’s the cover or the ild-build or the fact the sides of the mattress aren’t stretchy but the top is or the zoning…argh. Without knowing what’s wrong, I don’t know what to fix or fine-tune in the next build.

Anyway, the simplified choice is appealing to me, as is the stretch-knit cover. I’m a bit bummed they no longer do talalay (I asked) but I could see it being too light over springs. I was wondering if you could speak a bit more to the eco-flex quilting? Like you were, I’m a little wary…is it just a sheet of polyfoam or somehow stitched into the top or how does it work? How much does it stretch? I’m looking for more point elasticity than the Zenhaven is giving me now.

Nesthaven, if you don’t mind sharing, what is your wife’s weight and which softness did you go with? For me (under 140) they recommended “plush”. Thank you!

58

Hi sweet,

Sorry again for all the hassles that you’ve had to go through to find a suitable mattress. That’s one of the reasons we went with - and really enjoy - our Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress so much is that there hasn’t been any soreness in our shoulders or hips like other mattresses. We do think the stretch cover/EcoFlex foam is part of that.

As you’ve encountered, even when you get the latex ILD right, as soon as you put on a traditional wool/cotton cover, the mattress gets too firm. That was our experience. That’s part of the reason why Nest Bedding went with this design - to make it more comfortable and contouring. It’s been a night-and-day experience between our previous wool/cotton cover mattress and this stretch-cover/EcoFlex version.

And like you, we were a little hesitant about the EcoFlex foam. But again, it’s backed by Nest Bedding’s warranty policy, and we haven’t encountered any issues with it so far. And to be honest, most of the mattresses that we had over the last two decades were the polyfoam/pillowtop versions anyway, and those lasted us for a good 6-8 years. They were also comfortable right from the start, and this Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex is closest one we’ve found that matches that comfortable feel. And having experienced a number of other manufacturers, we’re pleased with the quality of Nest Bedding’s products.

The EcoFlex foam is woven into the cover, so that portion cannot be replaced from what we can tell. Only the latex foam piece may be swapped out once the cover is unzipped. And for us, we haven’t needed to worry about the latex foam. The Dunlop works fine for us. The softness of the EcoFlex stretch cover, combined with the support of the Dunlop, is a winning combo in our opinion. We get contouring comfort where we need it (shoulders/hips), and the Dunlop latex provides nice support on our backs - without causing any pain when we lay on our sides. There’s plenty of point elasticity with the cover - unlike anything else we’ve tried. We wouldn’t go back to the traditional wool/cotton covers at this point, as those were too firm for us.

Also, my wife has fibromyalgia and a strong sensitivity to smell. She hasn’t been bothered on either front with the Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress. No more pain like we both experienced with every other mattress, and there hasn’t been any off-gassing with our mattresses. The “Natural” in the Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex title is legit. There’s no chemical smell with the EcoFlex foam, so it’s not some marketing gimmick.

As for our weights, we’re both on the lightweight side - with my wife being around 130lbs. We’re very happy with our Medium version. If you only sleep on your side, you could go with Plush. However, as the mattress softens up, you might wish you had the Medium version. We tried out both, and we both preferred the Medium. There’s quite a bit of give with the Medium version. The Plush might work right out of the gate, but could feel too soft after a while. The Medium, while a touch firm to start with, does loosen up nicely in about a week or two. And since the EcoFlex foam is going to loosen up somewhat over time, too, you might not want to go too soft with this mattress.

We came across this review for the Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattress which very much matches our experience (this site also confirmed our too-firm experience with the Avocado mattress): Nest Owl Mattress Review 2022 (+Video) - Hand Test . As you can see, the Medium and the Plush are rather close in feel. They recommended the Medium for most sleepers, and that’s been our experience as well. If you only sleep on your side and you need a very soft mattress, the Plush could work. But if you’re a combo sleeper, the Medium might be preferable. You’ll sink in quite a bit with the Plush - whereas the Medium felt like just enough for us.

You could always try the Medium - and if it still feels too firm after a couple of weeks, you could swap out the Dunlop latex for the Plush version. We’d recommend giving the Medium a good couple/few weeks to break in, though, if you go that route.

Again, we have no regrets with our Nest Bedding Hybrid Natural Latex mattresses. Nest has done their homework and created a really nice, well-built, comfortable-yet-supportive product. We don’t give recommendations lightly. And before this particular mattress, there wasn’t a mattress out there that we’d tried or looked at that we could recommend. With this one, though, we have no hesitation recommending it. Like we said, our only “complaint” with it is that we don’t want to get out of bed in the morning, given that it’s so comfortable! :slight_smile:

Hope that helps, and happy to answer any other questions you may have…

59

Thank you so much for all of these details, NestHaven! You could easily rep the company at this point…maybe you should ask for an affiliate link. :wink:

All of this information really helps. I wish manufacturers would include this level of detail in their product descriptions. The videos do help, so you can see how the bed interacts with the person…although at this point I just want them to grab the cover and pull!

If I could do it again, I’d honestly plan a trip to Pheonix (the city, not the admin, although I’d certainly wish I could bring her and her wealth of knowledge along!). It seems like so many great companies are there; including a new Nest showroom. I know you can do a lot online these days, but this has been such a time-consuming project researching and trying to do “theory at a distance.” Living where the nearest city is 7+ hours away, I could have made the decision and felt a lot more confident about it spending a few days there, instead of harassing my local mattress places and trying to approximate from what they had and then doing a billion hours of research and getting samples and AUGH! (Like I just called a retailer that carries Brooklyn Bedding in an attempt to try the Bloom hybrid, which is “like” the Nest Hybrid Latex in the sense they share a factory and I assume have some similar materials…oy.)

But, since I didn’t do that and can’t swing it now, I really appreciate you reaching across the internet to help! At least your journey through 10 mattresses can help others, although I’m sure it wasn’t fun to go through.

It does raise an interesting question, one that I’ve thought a lot about…what’s with beds these days? I never used to care, they all sort of felt more or less the same! I was shocked that when I went to actually buy one for the first time in my life (having always lucked into a hand-me-down) that NOTHING felt right. I mean, there were some good “showroom feels” but nothing I’d really want to sleep on.

Is it an age thing? Like once you pass 30 you get pickier and more easily pained? Or an age thing in the sense everything used to be innerspring, we got used to it, and then Purple and Tempurpedic came out and along came the knockoffs? Has anyone else felt this way? It never occurred to me buying a mattress could be this complicated and difficult!

Some day I’m going to have this dialed, though! Can’t wait. :slight_smile:

60

My pleasure, sweet. Happy to help, and it makes going through almost 2 years and 10 mattresses worth the ordeal - particularly if it saves other people time.

And we have a similar post in another thread where we asked the same question - when did buying mattresses become so complicated?? For 20 years, we could walk into a store, try out a few mattresses, and be done in 15 minutes or so - and have a mattress that lasted 6-8 years. And now, it’s become a quest. We agree that there’s certainly been a change in materials. A big-chain store clerk also told us (when we got our Serta last year) that manufacturers are making mattresses for heavier people now, so us lighter-weight folks are getting squeezed out a bit. It could be a product of getting older, too.

And happy to support Nest Bedding’s efforts as a non-affiliated customer. While they may be a smaller company, I applaud their efforts in making a quality product, as well as listening to customer feedback. We had a few issues with our original order with them last year - flimsy boxes that fell apart in shipping, mixed quality with the products that we received, etc. However, with our current mattresses, all of those issues have been fixed. They ship with nice, study boxes now. The quality of the product is uniform and well made. And they listened to us who had issues with the previous wool/cotton cover design being too firm - and made a product that provides really nice contouring support.

For us, it was helpful to hear from Nest Bedding’s owner on why he redesigned the mattress. The choice to go with EcoFlex foam wasn’t a cost-saving move - it was a comfort-design move. It is was purely about saving money, this mattress would be very different. But simply looking at, and more importantly sleeping in it, we got the sense that this is a well-designed, quality product. And in a time where there are a lot of so-so products out there, and people such as yourself don’t have the luxury of getting to a showroom store, we wanted to do our part in commending and recommending companies like Nest Bedding that do the extra length to make a quality product.

Trust me, if we didn’t like their product, we’d be sharing that on this forum. And there are a lot of companies that we’d stay away from. But when a company gets it right, when a lot of companies these days are simply looking to add to their bottom line, we think those reputable companies deserve some praise when they step up like Nest Bedding has done. And if it helps others avoid the hassles we’ve been through, all the better.

Again, good luck to you - and we hope your mattress journey comes to a fruitful end soon! Please don’t hesitate to let us know if you have any other questions or need anything else. All the best…