Bed Woes

Hi Phoenix.

First of all…thanks for what you do!!! I was so thankful to come across your website.

We are having a dreadful time finding a new mattress and I am hoping you can help point us in the right direction. We are looking for a King size.

We must have lucked out on our first bed because we knew nothing and came home with something we loved (It was a SpringAir Back Supporter), but the second time around has not been so wonderful. I read a lot of your information before heading to the store with my husband, but I guess I wasn’t as prepared as I thought. I think the bottom line was that we just didn’t know what we liked at that point.

Anyhow, after trying several we have discovered we do not like anything with memory foam in it. Latex seems to be great and I did think the buckling gel (intelligel) beds felt nice, but the price didn’t look great at all. We would like to find something up to $1400 that fits our needs, but at this point I could really use some help on figuring out what that is. (Is that enough for a nice bed?)

We are side and back sleepers (I mostly like my side and my husband mostly likes is back). He is about 180 and I am about 150. We are unsure about the longevity of a bed without coils so thought to stick to a bed with them in, but would try anything you suggest at this point. Here are a few preferences we have discovered:

  1. It has to be comfortable and have enough padding and support that my hands don’t go to sleep. I have been having trouble for the past year with my fingers going numb and waking up because they hurt so much all through the night and only just realized through this process that it was from our mattress!! I have been going to the chiropractor and despairing because I thought something was going terribly wrong with me!!!

  2. We like a little bit of a firmer mattress that springs back quickly when you change positions (probably medium to medium firm). We do not do well with the really squishy ones (We initially tried a bed from Restonic’s Comfort line which was made of gel infused memory foam. My husband felt like he was sleeping in a hammock although I was beginning to get used to it, but didn’t love it).

  3. We would like something that breathes well so u don’t wake up sweating (it seems like the latex one we have now works well on this point).

  4. We would like something with a system that really helps reduce being able to feel your other partner moving around.

Is there such a bed out there???

Thanks so much. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated!


Hi Sunshine4Me,

I think the first place I would start is post #1 here and the information it links to.

It seems to me that based on your description and budget that you are probably looking for a latex hybrid with latex in the comfort layers and either polyfoam or an innerspring in the support layers (an innerspring will likely be a bit more).

There are many different versions of these so local testing with the help and guidance of a knowledgeable salesperson or consultant will help you match a mattress with the “right” layering and firmness combination to your specific needs and preferences.

There are many factors involved in the sleeping temperature of a mattress but latex is the most breathable of the foam categories and you can also help this by making sure that the other factors and layers are in the direction of more ventilation and breathability as well. There is more about this in post #2 here and in post #29 here

Once you have gathered some basic information about mattresses and you know how to eliminate the worst choices (from the post I Iinked) … then it’s time to find the better local manufacturers and sleep shops in your area and begin to do some mattress testing.

If you let me know your city or zip … I’d be happy to let you know about any better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.

The most important part in making a good quality/value choice is to always make sure that you deal with manufacturers or retailers that will provide you with good information about the quality details of every layer in any mattress you are considering so you can make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses and that also have the knowledge and experience to help you make the most suitable choices for your body type, sleeping positions, and preferences.

Feel free to post with any questions you may have along the way.


Thanks for the tips. Looks like we will need to start at ground 1 again, but hopefully more prepared this time! Our zip code is 84321 and I would love to know of any options in our area you know of.


Oh— One more thing…Are all latex or memory foam mattresses supposed to have a ridge form in the middle of the mattress? Several we’ve tried have done that within the first few days and we aren’t sure what to think about it

Hi Sunshine4me,

This depends a lot on the overall construction and layers of the mattress. It is much more common with larger sizes (such as King size) where the center of the mattress is used much less and doesn’t compress as much as the areas of the mattress that are used more.

The main reasons for this are slight shifting of the materials in the mattress (towards the unused center), certain types of materials used in the upper layers that are more prone to compression than others (such as lower quality foams or various synthetic or natural fibers that will compress initially with use). The degree of these types of valleys will depend a lot on the type of layering and construction of the upper surface of the mattress but in general latex and other higher quality foams are less prone to softening and impressions than either fiber (usually in the mattress quilting) or lower quality foam that will develop soft spots or ridges more quickly.

There are many retailers that will say a mattress is “latex” when this is just one of the layers in the mattress and there are other materials above the latex which they may not tell you about. this is particularly true with some of the larger brands where you may unknowingly be sleeping directly on fairly thick layers of polyfoam without realizing it.

You are somewhat “out of the way” in Logan but some of the better options or possibilities in the Salt Lake City area I’m aware of are listed in post #2 here. The closest of these that sell “foam” mattresses (memory foam and latex) is R & S Mattress and Crown Elite bedrooms in Ogden.

I did a quick search for retailers that are more local to you if this is too far and some of the better possibilities in the Logan area (and the brands they carry I would look at on a “mattress by mattress” basis and some comments about the few I talked with) are … Logan, UT. Southerland, Pure Latex Bliss, Bed Boss Logan, UT Restonic, Cannon

Redirecting... Logan, UT. Talked with Nathan here and they carry Restonic on the floor (latex hybrids and gel foam) and also have access to Bountiful rest for custom builds. Their Restonic factory is Everton mattress. He has good knowledge about materials and is well worth visiting. Brigham city, UT. Carries SleepInc (Spring Air) and Diamond (made in Salt Lake City). Talked with Julie. Has a Diamond innerspring hybrid with 2" Talalay for $699 queen (very good value) and others as well.

When you are working with or talking to local retailers that haven’t been “fully researched” … it’s important to make sure that they are knowledgeable about mattress materials and are able to provide you with the quality specs of all the layers of any mattress you are considering.

Hope this helps


Thanks for this info! I went to “My Mattress” last night as it’s very close to my house. Was completely annoyed by salesman’s tactics and attitude. Turned me off completely from giving them my business, even if they had a mattress I liked.

I will check out Palmer and U&I tonight and try to get detailed specs as you suggest. Can you point me to the post you have on memory foam mattresses and the layering detail and pounds recommended? I remember reading a post about the 3lb. was the entry level, but that for higher weight people, 4-5# is better? What about thickness of the material and how does that factor in to it?

Thank you again, Phoenix. I appreciate your knowledge and heart to share it!

Hi olivetorpedo,

It’s always unfortunate when you end up with a poor salesperson … and unfortunately they are much too common in the industry. Had your salesperson been a little more helpful it may have been worthwhile testing the Bed Boss memory foam mattresses that they carry.

Finding the layering and design that is best for you will depend entirely on your careful and objective testing for PPP using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post. There are just too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to suggest a specific mattress for someone else using a formula or “theory at a distance” (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

The quality of the materials is a different matter however because you can’t “feel” the quality of the materials when you test a mattress and it’s important to know the quality of the materials in any mattress you buy so you can identify any weak links and make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses. The “quality” guidelines I would use are in post #4 here.


Ok! I gave MyMattress another try and sought out the Bed Boss as you suggested. Really liked the middle firm model, Visco Heir ET, without pillow top.

Can you tell me what you know about these? The price was great, for mattress it is $699, or $799 for set in King.

Would love to hear your thoughts. I liked it more than an Enso Galaxy or Blue Mist, and more than the very pricey Tempurpedic (the price of that made my body hurt, even though the bed was nice

They also had the pillow top version of this Bed Boss, but I was running out of time and failed to try it. I can tomorrow though. :slight_smile:

I take it back, it may have been a Crown Visco Bed Boss… not sure.

When foam is glued together, the glue usually forms either a ridge or a groove. Even if you were to glue it yourself, the pucker or the ruck would form.

When working with latex, Dunlop molds are larger than Talalay molds and pieces can be as large as an Eastern King. Talalay molds always need to split the Queen. Of course, foam doesn’t have to be glued to stay together. As long as the ticking fits well and is strong enough, then layers shouldn’t budge or buckle.


Hi olivetorpedo,

I would need to know the specifics of the materials inside the mattress to make any meaningful comments about it. Outside of making sure a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (using the testing guidelines), the most important part of knowing whether a mattress has any obvious weak links or making meaningful comparisons to other mattresses is by knowing what is inside it (the information you need is in this article). If you can find out the specifics of the mattress you are considering then I’d be happy to make some comments about it.

Bed Boss itself uses memory foam that is sourced in China but they are CertiPur certified (see here*) so as long as the mattress you are considering uses 4 or 5 lb memory foams or higher (depending on your weight and the guidelines here) then they would be well worth considering as one of your finalists. The Bed Boss itself tends to be transparent about the materials they use which is one of the reasons I list them as a “possibility” in various lists around the forum.

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Enso is also CertiPur certified but they also tend to use lower density/quality memory foams that are under 4 lbs so I would make sure you know the specifics inside any of them you are considering before making the purchase no matter how they feel in a showroom so that you can make sure that there are no weak links in the mattress.

Unless you are able to find out the specifics of what is inside a mattress you are considering … I would avoid it because the risk of making a “blind purchase” would be too high in terms of the quality or durability of the mattress.


Thank you!! I will see if I can find the specs for it!

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ok! Through some sleuthing and researching, here is what I found out, I was reading what you have linked to about the layering, but I’m not really sure how the thicknesses of the layers factors in, with the weight/lb. involved?

The Visco Bed Boss Heir ET has:
Soft Blended fiber cover
1" heat dissipating bamboo infused visco quilted in cover
3" of 5 lb Visco Memory Foam in pillow top
7" high resilience base foam

The Visco Bed Boss Crown VT has:
13" Super Pillow Top Design
Soft Blended fiber cover
1/2" heat dissipating bamboo infused visco quilted in cover
2" of 5 lb Visco Memory Foam in pillow top
3" Visco foam cut in 9 alignment zones
7 1/2 Poly base in 9 alignment zones

The Visco Bed Boss Revolution has:
15" Boxtop Design
Soft Blended fiber cover
1" heat dissipating bamboo infused visco quilted in cover
5" of 5 lb Visco Memory Foam in pillow top
3.5 comfort support base reflex foam
5.5 high resiliency foam

Thank you again, Phoenix, for your time and heart to give counsel.

Hi olivetorpedo,

You are still missing some of the information that you would need …

I would want to know the density of the polyfoam base layer but the memory foam layer is good quality. The top 1" of memory foam is inside the guidelines I suggest which is "around an inch or so of unknown density materials and isn’t essential to know but I would still want to know it if the density is available.

I would want to know the density of the 3" visco foam layer and the density of the polyfoam base layer. I would also want to know whether the “soft blended fiber cover” meant that the cover fabric itself was a blend of materials (such as cotton, polyester, or bamboo) or whether there are actual natural (such as wool) or synthetic (such as polyester) fibers that are quilted to the cover but not part of the cover fabric itself. The top 1/2" of memory foam isn’t essential to know but I would still want to know it if the density is available.

I would want to know the density of the 3.5" and the 5.5" polyfoam base layers and whether the “soft blended fiber cover” meant that the cover fabric itself was a blend of materials (such as cotton, polyester, or bamboo) or whether there are actual natural (such as wool) or synthetic (such as polyester) fibers that are quilted to the cover but not part of the cover fabric itself. The top 1" of memory foam isn’t essential to know but I would still want to know it if the density is available.

In most cases the top 5" or 6" of the mattress will be the “weak link” of a mattress but lower weights will compress the top layers less deeply so knowing the quality/density of the top 3" or 4" would be most important and higher weights will compress the deeper layers more so knowing the quality/density of the 5" or 6" would be more important).

In general though … outside of the top inch of material (which is inside the guideline of "about an inch or so of unknown material) I would want to know the type and density of all the layers.