Brooklyn Bedding has changed materials

[phoenix]

Hi FriendlyBacterium,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed description of your process with your Best Mattress Ever. I’m glad you were easily able to acquire an exchange to the softer version, and I’m looking forward to your future updates on this item once you’ve had a chance to sleep on it for a while.

A few comments on some of your other information:

Much to my surprise, they didn’t ask me to send the mattress back. Instead, they just required that I donate it to a local charity and show them proof of donation to complete the exchange. They shipped the soft BME to me at no charge, and the transaction was over!

Many boxed-bed manufacturers are now simplifying the exchange process by asking that you donate the item to a charity, which not only helps out someone in need, but also keeps the mattress out of a landfill. I’m glad you were able to easily accomplish this.

While the stated ILDs are 13 and 18 for the 2" comfort layers, the mattress is nowhere near as plush as those numbers would imply. I’m not sure if ILD measurements vary from latex to polyfoam, or if BB uses a different thickness in their standard calculations, but I would rate the mattress no softer than a 5.5/10.

While counterintuitive, when a mattress uses softer materials in the upper comfort layers (here with 2" of 13 ILD 4 lb TitanFlex polyfoam over 2" of 18 ILD 4 lb Titanflex, versus your old 2" of 18 ILD 4 lb Titanflex over 2" of 28 ILD 4 lb TitanFlex), you will often “feel through” the softer layers to the firmer polyfoam support core, so the mattress can feel a bit firmer than what you would expect. Even experts in mattress design who are knowledgeable about the most subtle differences in ILD are often surprised at how different combinations feel in a completed product.

And yes, you’re correct that ILD is measured differently in latex and polyfoam. ILD in latex is usually measured with a 6" thick layer of foam and it’s basically the weight that it takes to compress a 50 sq in round metal foot into the foam by 25% (which would be 1.5"). This is different from polyfoam which is measured with a layer of foam that is only 4" thick so it would only be compressed by 1" (and the ILD number would be lower than latex). So first of all latex ILD is not directly comparable to polyfoam ILD. Some latex manufacturers also produce cores that are a different thickness which would also produce a different ILD rating compared to testing ILD on a 6" core. There are also different testing protocols for ILD so in some cases the ILD would be tested at 40% compression instead of 25% compression which would also produce a different result.

Again, these are only one person’s opinions and I haven’t slept a full night on the soft BME yet. However, I hope this gives some clarity to anyone in a similar situation. Thanks everyone, especially Phoenix, for all of the information on here.

You’re welcome, and I’m looking forward to your updates!

Phoenix

[FriendlyBacterium]

[quote=“creel” post=73491]

I’d am really interested in your thoughts on a full night sleep with the soft BME. I am about to pull the trigger on the same mattress for my wife and I. Thanks![/quote]

Creel,

After one night’s sleep, I can confirm that my initial suspicions seem to be holding up well. The soft mattress does not feel significantly softer than the medium I slept on previously, however, I did find that it “gave” just enough such that my shoulders no longer feel cramped when sleeping on my side. Additionally, it accomplishes this without sacrificing a great deal of support, at least for my size and sleeping position.

I’ll be happy to give another update after a few more nights on the mattress, but I can give my tentative endorsement to the soft version for anyone concerned that the medium may be a bit firm for his/her liking! It definitely hits the spot for me.

Thanks everyone. All the best,
Paul

[anotherscott]

Nice report, FB. I’m still in the eval period on my own BME. I’m a bit heavier than you at 5’9" and 175 lbs. I find the BME comfortable, but sometimes awake with numbness in my arm/hand (I often sleep 3/4 with my arms folded under the pillow), or possibly some hip soreness if I was sleeping on my side, though it dissipates quickly. It is a nice feeling mattress overall, and going softer might just solve those issues for me. Unfortunately, my partner actually wishes it were a bit firmer than it already is! So we’re also looking at mattresses which the two sides can be customized independently.

[Napper]

Even though everyone feels different it is nice to hear your opinions anyway. I had previously considered a BME before the changeover and things were put on hold but I am back mattress shopping again. I am seriously considering the new BME but my concern is exactly what you mention.

My wife and I are on opposite ends of the firmness level. I want pressure relief and she wants a rock hard surface. I have a feeling that a medium BME is going to be a little firm but wonder if the soft will be too soft. Only one way to find out but if it was too firm and then I got the soft and it did not work out, I would be stuck with it. They have already recommended the medium. As someone who can occasionally wake up
with sore shoulders, I think the medium is going to be too firm

One option that initially seems to be able to provide a compromise is Pranasleep, the Karma series which at least some if not all are hybrids with springs. The all latex while very nice are just more than I want to spend on a bed. The Pranasleep are more money and you don’t get the same trial period which is hard to pass up on these simplified, bed in a box choices.

I do want to avoid the typical upper layer memory foam feeling. If it is a different layer and the overall feel is to my liking then I would consider. That being said, I have looked over all the choices and while I have considered a few other than the BME, I have found reasons to pass on most of them. Wanting to avoid the typical upper layer memory foam feeling, my choices right now are down to, BME, Love & Sleep Mattress and Pranasleep.

[Napper]

My dilemma is that I will be going from a queen to a king. I will have to order a foundation and if the BME does not work out and I went to the Pranasleep, they want you to use their matched set. Because foundations will work with most any bed, they are not returnable so that would eliminate Pranasleep unless I just wanted to eat the cost or try to sell it for less money.

[skysongz]

Just wanted to add my mattress buying experience to the mix.

I originally was going to get a Simmons beautyrest—the model my mom has—because I slept so well on it every time I visited. However, she complained about sagging after 3 years, which led me to go look for alternatives.

After identifying Brooklyn Bedding as an interesting option, as well as Nest, and talking to my partner about his preferences “prefers something firm”, I dragged him to a Nest showroom to try things out in person. I contacted Brooklyn to ask if they could give any comparison/guidance to what we were trying there, since they don’t have a showroom local to us:

Breanna (Brooklyn Bedding)
Sep 8, 11:01 MST

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out. It can be hard to compare the mattresses as their mattresses do not use TitanFlex foam like we do. However, if you try out their latex mattresses, it will give you a idea of our mattress will feel like as TitanFlex foam is a latex alternative material. Our medium comfort level will be slightly firmer than any of their medium latex offerings, but it is the best comparison I can offer. With regards to bounce in the mattress, it will be similar between all comfort levels of their mattresses and ours.

Hopefully that helps someone. Well to echo “go try out some mattresses to learn what you like”, turns out we like SOFT mattresses with good support underneath. None of the medium options at Nest even called to us, but the soft and plush beds were right up our alley. I didn’t like the more “dead” feeling of the Love & Sleep Mattress and quite enjoyed the Q3 Nest Bedding Latex Mattress (latex) with the soft topper. We also tested the Q3 Nest Bedding Latex Mattress in different configurations (soft on medium on firm, soft on firm on medium, medium on firm no soft topper) and the first was definitely to our preference. We hopped between several beds and also went back and forth for some repeat comparisons of how each felt, and I was really quite taken with the Q3. But at $1999 for the Q3 soft, I figured it was worth giving Brooklyn a try.

I’ve only been on the BME soft for a week so far, and I’m hoping it softens up a bit more. I’m pretty happy with the responsiveness, the bounce is a liittle less than the Q3, but it feels like I reach the transition layer more quickly on the BME (makes sense, 2" of comfort layer versus 3" so I must be reaching the transition layer firmness more quickly?) I’ve also had some numbness in the arm I fall asleep on but I’m hoping it will soften up more. Doing some mattress walking as suggested to try and speed up the break-in process at the moment. Will try and report back when I’ve had more time with it!

[phoenix]

Hi skysongz,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

An congratulations on your new BME mattress! :cheer: You certainly chose a product using good quality and durable materials.

Thanks for providing a copy of your chat transcript. As Brooklyn Bedding makes the mattresses for Nest, they would be quite familiar with the Nest Bedding line, and their comparison offering, while slightly limited in scope (as they stated), hopefully gave you a decent idea for the sake of comparing. TitanFlex is buoyant, but not quite as much as latex. The Q3 is also all-latex, where the BME uses a polyfoam support core, so there certainly are some differences in how all of the layers work together.

I’ve only been on the BME soft for a week so far, and I’m hoping it softens up a bit more. I’m pretty happy with the responsiveness, the bounce is a liittle less than the Q3, but it feels like I reach the transition layer more quickly on the BME (makes sense, 2" of comfort layer versus 3" so I must be reaching the transition layer firmness more quickly?) I’ve also had some numbness in the arm I fall asleep on but I’m hoping it will soften up more. Doing some mattress walking as suggested to try and speed up the break-in process at the moment.

I’m assuming you chose the BME Soft, which has 2" of 13 ILD and 2" of 18 ILD 4lb TitanFLex polyfoam. Beneath that is the 6" 1.8 lb 36ILD polyfoam core. Both of the layers of the TitanFlex foam are quite plush, and initially with a mattress like this (especially after only one week of use), the base polyfoam especially will have a bit of “stiffness” to it, which should relax and “break in” a bit more in the first few weeks.

Also, make sure to revaluate your pillow for appropriateness in thickness and alignment. Often with a new mattress, your shoulders/thoracic area sinks in at a different depth than on your old mattress, so make sure that the thickness of your pillow is correct to help maintain a more neutral alignment on your new mattress.

Will try and report back when I’ve had more time with it!

I’ll look forward to your future updates once you’ve had a chance to sleep upon the product for a while longer.

Phoenix

[npolite]

I’ve owned a BB mattress for just over a year. I bought the plush mattress as when I contacted Mario about it and mentioned I had my arms and sockets falling asleep with the Leesa. Everything was going well since I bought this and overall was happy with the purchase. In the past month I have been having pains in my stomach area which I assume are nerves. I was away from home for a day for work and noticed the issue didn’t happen with the inner spring mattress. Is it possible that I need to look at a inner spring mattress again?

[phoenix]

Hi npolite,

I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t be able to determine if your mattress was causing you nervousness and apprehension (is that what you mean by “nerves”?), nor am I aware of any research showing a particular style of product or component as being “better” or “more appropriate” for such issues. Support and alignment - yes - but nothing about “nerves”.

Phoenix

[npolite]

Hi Phoenix,

Sorry if I didn’t explain this properly. When I wake up I feel like it’s nerve pain as I twist from side to side it gets worse. I can no longer sleep on my stomach either after waking up. Does this look like an issue with support?

I emailed BB but from the latest response I don’t think I’m going to get anywhere with a replacement. I understand it’s been a year but went with their recommendation.

[phoenix]

Hi npolite,

Sorry if I didn’t explain this properly. When I wake up I feel like it’s nerve pain as I twist from side to side it gets worse. I can no longer sleep on my stomach either after waking up. Does this look like an issue with support?

Thanks for clarifying this. It makes more sense to me now. :cheer:

It is common for people who sleep upon their stomach to be more susceptible to low back issues and pains, as they are placing their body in a position that can accentuate the forward (lordotic) curve of their low back, and this would be the weakest posture where just a bit of excess curvature can cause discomfort. How much so would depend upon one’s level of strength, flexibility and sensitivity to this forward flexion.

I emailed BB but from the latest response I don’t think I’m going to get anywhere with a replacement. I understand it’s been a year but went with their recommendation.

It could be possible that your current mattress is too plush on the surface for your sleeping posture. While I wasn’t a part of your conversation when selecting your mattress, you were complaining about your old Leesa mattress causing your arms to fall asleep, so a recommendation for something that is softer on top would have made sense. You’d also want to make sure that the pillow you’re using (if any) isn’t very thick as to cause discomfort in your neck/shoulder area. Too thick of a pillow when sleeping on your stomach can also accentuate the forward curvature of your low back and cause pain in that area as well.

While the mattress has worked out well for you for about a year, I wouldn’t be able to determine if the issue with you having pains in your back just this past month are caused by a change in your physical strength or flexibility, or the mattress feeling a bit softer, a pre-existing condition, acute trauma, or a combination of all of the above. Regardless of the “culprit(s)”, I wouldn’t expect a manufacturer to replace or exchange a mattress over a year after the purchase because of what might be a comfort preference issue.

One thing that you may wish to do, just as a test that would be longer than the one day you slept on an innerspring mattress, would be to flip your mattress over and sleep upon the bottom side of the mattress. This would be the polyfoam core part of the mattress and it would have a hard comfort than your upper latex comfort layers. If you felt better sleeping upon your stomach on this firmer surface, this would be an indication that something using firmer comfort layers could be in order for you, whether that product used an innerspring support core or a polyfoam support core.

Speaking in general terms, this would be the best information I could provide. I hope it’s helpful. I’ll be interested to learn if you try my “experiment” and the results of that.

Phoenix

[npolite]

Thanks. Will give it a try and report back.

[phoenix]

Hi npolite,

Sounds like a plan!

Phoenix

[ryan23]

I’m looking into the BME rather seriously and may pull the trigger soon. I’m curious - has anyone found the medium to be too soft? Alternatively has anyone actually tried the firm?

I spoke with BME over chat and since I sleep on my side, they suggested I go with medium despite my love of firm beds/harder surfaces with no give. One on hand I guess they are the experts and I should listen to them, but on the other hand every mattress store I go to I just prefer the hardest bed (the one with the least sinking) I can lay on.

[anotherscott]

@"ryan23" post=73941

every mattress store I go to I just prefer the hardest bed (the one with the least sinking) I can lay on.

I’ve found that “least sinking” and “hardest” don’t necessarily go together. How much you sink and how firm the mattress is can be two separate attributes. I had the Brooklyn medium and Luxi firm side by side. I sink further into the Luxi, yet it feels just as firm, maybe even a bit firmer, because once you hit the point of resistance, the Brooklyn still has “give” and the Luxi pretty much doesn’t. You may sink more into the Luxi, but you’re sinking into something that is ultimately slightly harder. At least that’s how it felt to me. In the end, even though the mattresses don’t feel alike, they felt roughly equally firm to me.

[phoenix]

Hi ryan23,

Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around.

Ultimately, your own experiences and perception are the most important, and if you have an affinity for something with a surface comfort that is harder feeling, you may wish to try the firm comfort of the BME and see if it meets with your needs. While the recommendations that a manufacturer makes are based on what “usually” is most popular with certain somatotypes and BMIs and sleeping styles, it’s not always the case, and you should certainly trust you own personal experiences and testing and not discount those. You’ll also want to make sure to be completely familiar with any potential return/exchange policies of any other manufacturer you might be considering, just in case things don’t turn out as well as you had expected and the product does not meet the firmness expectations that you need.

Phoenix

[npolite]

Here is an update. I flipped my BB mattress over and the bottom surface feels like my old Simmons bed, ie, a wrestling mat. I’ve been on it for 4 days now and still am getting the pains around my stomach/rib cage area. I also still feel like I’m tossing and turning all night from pressure points.

At this point I feel I am going to go back to trying an inner spring mattress. I don’t want to take a huge risk as I’m already out $1300+ on two beds so I am going to purchase one from Costco. The only one they sell with an inner spring is a Sealy. Yep I know it’s not the greatest but the one I had prior to these two was also a Sealy. Worst case is I have to return it and take advantage of their generous return policy. I’m not one to abuse this policy but feel it’s a great option for my situation.

[phoenix]

Hi npolite,

Unfortunately you didn’t find any relief with a very firm product, but it does let you know that something that has a very hard surface comfort is not your preference.

While I don’t know that specifically an “innerspring” product will be to your liking (there are many different types of innerspring units available with different ranges of resistance combined with different comfort layers atop those spring units), I do understand your thought process. You are correct that I wouldn’t agree with choosing the product you’re considering for your switch to an innerspring mattress (I’d suggest something using higher density foams so that in case you liked it the product would be more durable), but hopefully you’ll be able to find something that better suits your needs and one which provides you better comfort.

Good luck!

Phoenix

[npolite]

Hi Phoenix,

If the mattress only lasts 5 years and is a complete change I’m ok with that. Will post down the road on this. I have some other health issues too such as GI and fatigue. I don’t know if my really mild sleep apnea is causing this, work, my deviated septum or a combination of all things. I just and trying things out that I can physically see as issues first.

[anotherscott]

@"anotherscott" post=73944

[quote=“ryan23” post=73941]every mattress store I go to I just prefer the hardest bed (the one with the least sinking) I can lay on.

I’ve found that “least sinking” and “hardest” don’t necessarily go together. How much you sink and how firm the mattress is can be two separate attributes. I had the Brooklyn medium and Luxi firm side by side. I sink further into the Luxi, yet it feels just as firm, maybe even a bit firmer, because once you hit the point of resistance, the Brooklyn still has “give” and the Luxi pretty much doesn’t. You may sink more into the Luxi, but you’re sinking into something that is ultimately slightly harder. At least that’s how it felt to me. In the end, even though the mattresses don’t feel alike, they felt roughly equally firm to me.[/quote]