Hi davidandlynn1,
Youāre very welcome. Iām glad you found us 
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Can you recommend some mattress places in the St. Louis area? I almost impulse purchased from Bed in a Box, but then I started wondering if the reviews were fake. I am glad I found this website so that I can make a more informed mattress choice!!
Thanks,
Amanda
Hi Phoenix,
Actually, you can disregard my above post because I found a list you made from 2011ā¦ So my husband and I have tested mattresses a few times in the last couple weeks, and the biggest problem is that we pretty much like everything and canāt really decide what we like the best. We made this mistake before when we purchased our Sealy mattress in 2009, because it was reasonably priced compared to some of the others. We liked everything we tried then too. But the middle-of-the-bed sinking it does now is terrible. It gives me horrible back pain, and I can usually sleep ANYWHERE without waking up in pain. My husband is a little bit more high maintenance. He had a C-spine fusion five years ago and has really bad neck and back pain from it. We are both now sleeping on the couch until we can find a new bed. 
I have no idea where to even start on which type of mattress to buy. I read through all of your introductory information, and it makes me even more confused as to where to start. Iām guessing we donāt want an innerspring since we have that now and hate it. We donāt want an air or water bed. So I guess that leaves the various foams or latex. When we went mattress testing before, it was before I found this website. So I wasnāt really paying attention to what the mattress layers were made out of at the time. I guess my main concern though is just being able to narrow mattresses down since right now pretty much anything out there is better than what we have right now! Maybe you can just make a couple recommendations for me to start with evaluating? Iām a back or side sleeper, and my husband is a back sleeper with neck/back problems. We are both average weight. My favorite sleep experience was in a Marriott hotel bed. I have no idea what it was made out of, but it was heavenly.
Amanda
Hi mandamu43,
This is why you would need to test the different types of mattresses and materials. If you follow the steps and guidelines one by one you will be fine. You have some good options in the St Louis area that are experienced and knowledgeable that can give you some good guidance. Many of these will already know what you otherwise would need to learn.
You have done some initial reading (step 1) ā¦ know what to eliminate and what to look for (step 2) ā¦ you have identified some good local manufacturers and retailers (step 3) ā¦ and you know how to test mattresses more accurately and objectively to increase your odds of making a good choice (linked in the post). Now itās a matter of connecting with some of the better sources in your area so you can test different types of mattresses and choosing the one that is ābest for youā at each manufacturer or retailers you visit (step 4). These will be your final choices (step 5). Only you can know this because nobody else can feel what you feel on a mattress and there is no ātheory at a distanceā that can predict which mattress is best for you more accurately than your own testing ā¦ especially with the help of knowledgeable and experienced āmattress professionalsā.
I am happy to help with HOW to make the best choices but only you can decide WHAT to buy based on your own personal value equation. Again ā¦ there is no specific formula or ātheoryā that someone else can decide which mattress may work best for you that can possibly be more accurate than your own experience with the help and guidance of knowledgeable people. The best recommendation I would have is to phone the options on the list and then visit the manufacturers and retailers in your area that you connect with on the phone. With their help you can test the mattresses they make or sell for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) and make the best possible final choices.
Phoenix
Hi Amanda. Have you purchased anything online before? You can always try some mattresses out in the St. Louis area, and then search online to see if you can get a better deal for the same mattress.
Let us know if you also need help looking for a reputable online store to order a mattress?
Phoenix,
Iām enjoying your website and really glad I found it. I was beginning to fear that there was no way I could find a suitable, quality mattress.
In your siteās section on comfort layers, you state that low quality memory foam smells bad. In another section of the site, you say never to buy a name brand mattress.
Iām just getting started in my mattress search and spent the last two weekends at three of the heavily advertised local stores, checking out their national brand mattresses.
Every mattress, in all three stores, had at least a little memory foam - even the very firm inner spring models.
And every one of those mattresses smelled of the foam. I canāt take much of that smell, and would be sick after a night on any of those national brand mattresses.
Odd thing is, on the mattresses that had the least memory foam, it was sometimes hard to smell the foam while in the store, maybe because the whole store stunk of that smell worse than that the particular mattress. But, I put my coat and scarf on one of those really low content memory foam mattresses while I looked around the store. When I got out side, my coat and scarf had a strong memory foam smell from being on that mattress.
Conclusion, most national brand mattresses are made with cheap memory foam.
Keep up the good work.
Hi Just Right,
Not all memory foam smells bad and any density (quality) of memory foam can have some smell at first (or sometimes longer) regardless of its quality or density. Even memory foam that is CertiPur certified and is very high quality/density can have some initial odor and some VOCās donāt have any smell at all.
Some initial smell or offgassing can be part of any memory foam (and other foams as well) depending on how long it has aired or its formulation but smell itself is not an indicator of the quality of the foam.
I just thought I should clarify your comments so that other members didnāt think that smell was connected to the quality or density of memory foam.
Itās true though that much (but not necessarily all) of the foam in national brand mattresses are lower quality and value than most of their smaller independent competitors.
Thanks for the kind comments and Iām looking forward to hearing about the mattress you end up choosing.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Sorry for my amateur exaggeration.
I seem to have developed a bad attitude about memory foam in general. Itās as if memory foam is teasing me.
I really like the feel of a little memory foam in the top layer of a mattress. People who arenāt sensitive to the odor get to benefit from the unique functionality of memory foam. But not me.
Iām very sensitive to chemical odors. And every memory foam mattresses I ātestedā in the last two weeks had āthatā smell. If it was recently added to the display room, or if it had a great deal of memory foam, the smell was stronger. But even mattresses that had been on the floor for many months, with fairly limited memory foam content, still bothered me.
On a positive note, one of your posts about local and regional mattress manufacturers with dealers in our area (Huntsville, AL) led me to one or two ānewā mattress dealers that we are going to explore tomorrow. Iām looking forward to my first experience of mattresses made partially or completely of latex.
Thanks.
Hi Just Right,
I know that they are a fairly long ways away from you but if you are in the mood for a longer drive then Tom at Royal Bedding has a fairly new line line of latex and other mattresses that I like. They include some two sided ābaseā mattresses using various components (innersprings and latex) that can either be used by themselves (firmer) or with various toppers that are custom designed for them to customize their feel and performance and they have great quality, value and versatility.
I talked with him today for some time and have watched him develop this line (and been one of the people he has bounced ideas off of). He is truly āmattress peopleā.
Just in case you feel like taking a longer trip to Pelham
Phoenix
Hi Amanda - Things to consider when shopping at a big-box store:
- delivery: is it really āfreeā?
- returns: in-store credit or full refund? Will you need to lug it back yourself?
- showroom testing often isnāt effective: hereās a link to a study
- transparency: will they tell you āwhatās really under the hoodā (density, materials, construction, etc.)?
- hidden costs: how much is going to pay for commission, showroom decoration, rent, etc.
Of course you can get really good mattresses in stores, but you will generally pay a premium. There is no escaping the costs of operating a physical store which must be included in the price you pay for your bed.
Cheers,
Sam
Hi Phoenix,
I looked at the Royal Bedding website and watched Tomās YouTube videos. Too far away for us.
We did get to see/feel latex mattresses by Denver Mattress Company ( the āI Choiceā) and Jamison (the āSkipperā). Both were Queen size which is our preferred size.
The āI Choiceā has a 2" latex foam topper as a standard, but removable part. It was confusing because it felt maybe a little too firm without the topper and a little too soft with it. Pretty pricey too ($2399). Too expensive for us.
The āSkipperā felt just right, and its $1399 (after a $300 āinstant rebateā). They want another $79 for a water proof mattress cover. Free delivery.
The āSkipperā has 2" of āsoftā latex, then 1 inch of āmediumā latex, then 7" of āMarriott High Resiliency Ultra Premium Coreā. A brief look at their warranty and usage instructions gives me the impression that Jamison expects 1.5" of body impressions and, in general, they read a lot like a national brandās boiler plate for an inner spring mattress. Not too thrilled about that.
Any advice/insight you can offer about the āSkipperā and/or Jamison will be appreciated.
Thanks.
Hi Just Right,
I donāt see an āI Choiceā on the Denver mattress website. Do you have a link or the description of all the layers that are in it? Without knowing all the layers besides just the topper thereās no way to make any meaningful assessment of the mattress or compare it to any other mattress although Iām not aware of an āI Choiceā that they make (unless its brand new but this certainly seems very pricey for a mattress with only 2" of latex if thatās what it is).
The Jamison Skipper uses all good quality materials and doesnāt have any obvious weak links in the mattress. The upper layers are all high quality Talalay latex and the base foam is high quality/density polyfoam as well. I also know tht jamison is open about the quality of the materials they use. This would certainly be better than average value compared to major brands (and you would also have the assurance of knowing that all the layers in the mattress are good quality with no lower quality of mystery materials).
Warranties have little meaning for me and I put more weight on the quality of the design and materials than the warranty (as you can see in post #174 here). I believe that the TLC collection may have an exclusion of 3/4" and a 1.5" exclusion is more typical of a mattress that has a quilted layer or fibers rather than a smooth top where you are sleeping directly on good quality specialty foam (like latex or memory foam) but I would check this to make sure (with Jamison if necessary). As you mentioned ā¦ the exclusion often says more than the warranty itself.
In any case ā¦ even though it may not be ābest in the countryā value ā¦ it is certainly better value than most of the mainstream brands which typically use lower quality materials and sell for more and you have the advantage of being able to test the mattress in person.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for your comments about Jamison.
Is that a good price ($1,399) for the Skipper Queen? . How about the mattress cover at $79?
We arenāt ready to buy online or travel great distances to check out better alternatives. So, if the āSkipperā and the retailer check out, and there isnāt a quality latex competitor locally, we may āsettleā for the Skipper.
Any additional advice, given our situation?
Regarding the āiChoiceā by the Denver Mattress Company:
They said the āiChoiceā is new. I have some pictures showing what we saw at the store in Madison, AL, including specs, pricing and the mattress itself.
They donāt seem to talk about the removable 2" topper in the literature, but the salesman checked and said that it is definitely part of the set.
I tried adding the pictures as attachments but got a āfatal server errorā message. Is there some other way I can get the pictures to you?
Thanks again.
Hi Just Right,
I would say it is in a ābetter than averageā value range and probably āgood local valueā but not in the ābest in countryā value range of some manufacturers that would make a similar design but may not be available to you locally. Value itself though has many parts to it and is not just about the ācommodity valueā of a mattress and when you are looking at a local option there is also real value and lower risk in being able to test a mattress specifically for PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment and Personal preferences). if you are comparing to a online option then I would consider a ālocal premiumā in the range of 20% or so to be roughly āequivalent valueā but each person may use a different percentage depending on their own risk tolerance and may also have a different āpersonal value equationā and different ideas of what is most important and valuable to them when they are buying a mattress.
I donāt know what type of protector you are looking at and there is a very wide range of prices from very cheap to significantly more costly and higher quality but you can see some of the different types of mattress protectors that are available and the pros and cons of each type in post #89 here. A google search on each brand will probably bring up the best value for each of them (and this may change over time). Some protectors offer a warranty when you purchase them at the same time as a mattress but these can be very difficult to make claims against if you have an accident that soils the mattress because they will often claim that you didnāt use proper care instructions and deny coverage. In some cases they will send you a cleaning kit so you can remove the stain yourself and actually replacing a mattress would be very very rare.
Iām not sure what is happening for you or why the error message but if you email me the pictures and the specs at the contact link at the top of the page Iāll be happy to add them to your post.
Phoenix
Hi Just Right,
I had to resize the pictures which is why you were getting the error message (the file size was larger than the maximum 2M allowed by the forum software).
They certainly look interesting and they are more costly than the Snowmass and the Aspen they replaced (with less latex) but I do like the design. I would hope it includes the topper.
Do you know if the topper is available in different firmness levels (which Iām assuming is the reasoning behind the name IChoice) or if the mattress itself also has firmness options?
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for getting the pictures to work.
One note: the foundation that comes with the bed is not the one you see in the picture of the entire bed. The actual foundation included with the mattress is a box spring and looks plainer than the foundation in the picture.
The assistant manager (Andrew, 256-464-7806) checked for me and said the topper IS part of the set and is included in the price.
Andrew didnāt say so, either for the mattress or the topper. He seemed to be new at showing this mattress, naturally, so maybe there are options like you describe. But, to us, his explanation was that the topper is there to allow the user to change from a firmer to a softer feel. That was āfrustratingā to me because my āsweet spotā was somewhere between the two.
It was similar to my āfrustrationā with a double sided mattress we saw by Jamison called āLEAFWINGā. It is firm on one side and soft or plush on the other (neither of which hit my āsweet spotā either). In a two sided, I would rather have the same feel on both sides so I could flip the mattress over for longer life.
Hi Just Right,
I switched your posts to a new thread with a title that is more reflective of the content so that others can find it easier.
I confirmed today that the topper is included in the price and that itās only available in a single ILD. Without the topper they take off $100 but they donāt sell it separately.
He didnāt know the ILD of the topper (or thelayers in the mattress) but Iāll call the production manager on Monday to find out.
If you know the ILD then you can always add your own Talalay topper in the same thickness in a slightly lower ILD.
I agree that this type of design is somewhat āquestionableā because if you prefer one side over the other then the odds are much lower that you would use both sides so the durability benefit would be gone. The advantage is that you can change the āfeelā of the mattress by flipping it but like you say I donāt think this is as big a benefit of having a two sided mattress that is suitable for your needs and preferences where both sides are the same. It can also work well in a set of twin XL for a couple who may each prefer a different design in the same mattress and then you can flip them and switch sides and still have the same side to side configuration.
In the Leafwing ā¦ one side has 4" of soft Talalay and the other side has .4" of Evercloud which is Dunlop latex used for quilting. You could add two 2" toppers to the Evercloud side to make it similar (but not quite the same because of the Evercloud layer) but this would put 4" of soft latex on the bottom of the mattress which is a little too much soft latex on the bottom of a mattress for best support IMO. Basically this is a one sided mattress in practical terms.
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for moving and retitling this thread. Makes sense.
Back to the Jamison Skipper queen, which felt just right, I checked out both the local retailer and Jamison with the BBB. Both have an A+ rating.
I also called a Jamison retailer in a nearby town to see if they had a better price. We bought a dinning room set from them years ago, so I had some history there. They opened with $1,599 and were a little crestfallen when I told them that the local retailer was at $1,399. They said they have a price matching policy but we arenāt going to ask them use it. Anyway, they said $1,399 is a very good price.
On Friday, when we saw first the Denver Mattress iChoice and then the Jamison Skipper, I gave both mattresses the sniff test, because I had never been around a mattress with latex. I was hoping that there wouldnāt be an odor issue like I had with all the national brand memory foam mattresses.
I could smell just a very faint hint of rubber, but had to sort of squeeze it out. It didnāt bother me at all.
However, after leaving the Jamison retailer, I had a stinging sensation in my sinuses that lasted for a few hours. Maybe it was a reaction to the variety of materials in the retailerās showroom (itās a furniture store, with mattresses as just part of the inventory). Maybe I reacted to the 7" of āMarriott High Resiliency Ultra Premium Coreā. The polyurethane layer. Maybe I was just tired and more susceptible (which happens sometimes).
That stinging sensation, whatever caused it, is the last hurdle. I may go back to the retailer and just breathe the air for a while (hopefully without getting arrested for being too sensitive/weird).
Iām resigned to the mattress out-gassing some when its delivered. Iāll probably have to sleep in another room for a week or two. I wonāt mind if thatās all it takes. I really think the Skipper could make a huge difference in the quality of my sleep.
Hi Just Right,
It would be very rare for latex to cause any issues and all Talalay latex has been tested to Oeko-Tex standard 100 category 1 (safe for babies) for harmful ingredients and VOCās and offgassing so itās not likely that it would be the cause of your stinging but of course anything is possible.
I also wouldnāt feel too bad asking them to match prices and being ācrestfallenā is just part of the āgameā. They will still make a fair profit at the lower price and be grateful for your business
Iām looking forward to hearing about your decision.
Phoenix
The iChoice is almost twice the price of the Snowmass. Two negatives that I see are: they have a layer of 1.35 foam sandwiched between layers of latex. Also, the topper doesnāt have rounded corners like the mattress which will make it tough putting mattress protectors and fitted sheets on it. I suppose this is a common problem with square cornered toppersā¦
I wonder if this is an attempt to enter the luxury mattress market with their own product. Unless the topper is available in different ILDs I donāt see advantage. Lew