Need specs for Stearns and Foster Ava Rose hybrid mattress

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello,

I have done a lot of reading and lurking on this forum and finally decided to register. :slight_smile:

I recently bought a Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe and I really like the feel of the mattress, but I do not like the price. I am still within my exchange/return window.

I was thinking of looking at a Stearns and Foster, the Ava Rose Lux Estate Hybrid model (Luxury Cushion Firm Top), but I need to find the exact specs on the layers of memory foam, including density of each layer and I am having trouble locating that information.

I did find it on the Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe (or at least I think I did: 1st layer HD (high density) 1" 7.2 lb memory foam, 2nd layer 1" HD 5.3 lb, 3rd layer 2" of HD 5.3 lb and 4th layer 2" of 7.2 lb memory foam. A fifth layer is below those layers.

I am looking for similar specs for the Stearns and Foster, not just their names for their product layers which really do not help me … I want to know the foam density of each layer. Can anyone help? Thank you in advance. :slight_smile:

2

Hi missy_

Stearns & Foster doesn’t provide this information so it’s unlikely you would be able to find it. If you did you would almost certainly find that they are lower than the quality/density guidelines here. As you can see in the guidelines here … I would avoid Stearns & Foster completely along with any other mattress where you aren’t able to find out the quality of the materials inside it because you won’t be able to identify any weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons to other mattresses.

You can see the specs of the Rhapsody Luxe (to the best of my knowledge) in post #3 here and there are no weak links in the mattress but as you can see in the guidelines I linked I would tend to avoid Tempurpedic as well because there are many other mattresses that use the same or better quality materials at much lower prices and which for most people would be much better “value”.

The first place I would start your mattress research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choices … and know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Phoenix

3

Thanks, Phoenix, for your reply. :slight_smile:

So far, I have not been able to find the Stearns and Foster specs.

I have read many of your articles on this site before I signed up. So much so that all of the information is a bit … overwhelming! :smiley: All of it is very good info. I did read the mattress tutorial. I may not remember all of it, as it was a lot of information. :smiley:

I also looked at retailers you recommend in my local area (I found that info from searching the forum); however, I only want to drive within my city and not to outlying areas (I can provide you with my location if needed; I would rather not list it here but can tell you privately if you like).

Although I would prefer not to buy online as the idea of having to possibly exchange various layers or entire beds via mail is not appealing to me, some of the beds from members on your membership list do look good. For that reason, I might consider buying online after all.

Ideally I would like to spend no more than $1500 and even less ($1000) if I could do it, on both a “boxspring” (or foundation) and mattress combined.

I seem to prefer what I might call a medium firm or medium mattress. I realize this will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Soft or very, very firm mattresses are not for me.

I am hoping maybe you or others can give me some guideance on an innerspring, memory foam or latex mattress that might work for me within my budget.

I looked at some latex mattresses from Bed Pros, which is our only local source of latex mattresses. Frankly, two different sales reps on two different occasions were not at all familiar with their lineup of Pure LatexBliss mattresses. (However, I did find the specs. But IMO, LatexBliss is not that forthcoming with all of the materials in their bedding.) Bed Pros currently carry the Beautiful, Nature and Mezzanine models. The most comfortable for me was the Nature, which is supposedly a medium mattrress (again I know this varies by manufacturer, but I am providing it so that readers will know what felt comfortable to me). The Beautiful felt too soft if I remember correctly …? and the Mezzanine, a hybrid, felt too firm and more like a brick. However, the LatexBliss is not within my price range. I list it here as a reference for what felt comfortable to me.

Other mattresses I have tried are the Emelia Rose by Stearns and Foster, which is an innerspring mattress with their Intellicoil (coil within a coil system) and other materials. It felt great. Not saying whether it would last, just that I liked the way it felt. I also liked the Lily Rose, also an innerspring mattress by Stearns and Foster, but it felt like it might not have enough support layers. The Lily Rose is not as expensive as the Emelia Rose. The third bed that I liked from Stearns and Foster is the Ava Rose, which is a hybrid of memory and gel foams along with Intellicoil (coil within coil). I mention these three because they seemed to have the right degree of “medium firmness” that I am looking for, with the Emelia Rose and the Ava Rose feeling better in the support and comfort layers.

Simmons Beautyrest makes a mattress called the Fisher Island and I liked the overall feel of that bed fairly well.

I tried a Beautyrest Recharge that was a Luxury Firm which felt pretty good. Will have to revisit to see how it feels on another day.

I realize this is not a lot of information to go on. I am rather like the Princess and the Pea. :wink: I am picky about the way the mattress feels. I can go into a mattress store and certain ones will feel decidedly better than others. But I also want a mattress that will last and a decent trial period to see how it is working for me.

What I am wondering is, if I want to attempt to construct a durable latex bed which might give me enough support (I know you don’t like that word but let’s just say support layers and comfort layers?) For support layers I need enough of them so I do not bottom out. Pressure relief is important to me, as my arm will go asleep if I am sleeping on a mattress that pushes back too much. I have found in general that thicker mattresses with more layers tend to feel better to me, although this is not always the case.

One issue with a latex bed is it seems to require more support than my bed frame could give. Some latex mattress retailers suggest a fifth leg to support the middle of the bed. My queen bed frame – which is expensive and not something I will part with – is too high off the floor to use these types of support legs. I found some of these online but when I called the maker (cannot remember who), I discovered my bedframe is too high and that this will not work for me. So any latex bed I might get would have to be one that would not need any extra support other than a standard wooden bedframe with wooden slats. A latex bed may not be an option for me if it is too heavy for my bedframe.

In addition to latex, I am considering other type of bedding such as a quality innerspring that won’t sag over time or a quality memory foam bed.

I prefer to work with a store with a good return policy if for some reason I am simply unable to find the right bed. The only thing about very small stores is they do not always have the best return policies.

I dearly love my Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe for the way it feels, and it never causes my arm to fall asleep. I get very good quality sleep on this bed. But the price is more than what I want to pay for a bed, so I am shopping for cheaper alternatives. Also although I have a good idea what is in it, as the Rhapsody line has been made for awhile, it is true that Tempurpedic is much less consumer-friendly than in previous years when it provided exact specs for its mattresses.

Thank you and everyone in advance for your assistance. :slight_smile:

4

Hi missy_,

If you have found the list for your local area (within about 50 miles or so) then it would already include the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.

There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to suggest a specific mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance that can be more effective than your own personal testing and experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). Only you can feel what you feel on a mattress.

If you follow the steps in the tutorial post one step at a time though about testing different types of mattresses to find out which types of mattresses and materials you tend to prefer and you also make sure that you know the type and quality of all the materials in any mattress you are considering so you can identify any weak links and make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses then your chances of making a suitable and good quality/value choice will be very high. If you are looking at online options then the tutorial post includes several links to the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) but the first step is to do enough testing so that you know the types of mattresses and materials that you tend to prefer.

I’m not sure which PLB mattresses you were testing but the specs of the current natural lineup are here.

The Mezzanine uses 1" of 15 ILD Talalay GL slow response latex on top of their bonded latex/polyfoam support core (see post #6 here). All of their mattresses use good quality materials and there are no weak links in any of their designs so it would only be a matter of choosing which one was the best “match” for you in terms of PPP and the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you to decide on your “finalist” at that retailer. PLB is completely transparent about the type and quality of all the materials in their mattresses.

Unfortunately it can be very frustrating and a significant waste of time testing mattresses where you know ahead of time that you won’t be able to find out the type and quality of the materials inside it (see this article) unless you are willing to make a “blind” purchase where the odds are very high that there are lower quality materials in a mattress. No matter how a mattress feels or how good a match it may be in terms of PPP … there would be little value in buying a mattress which used lower quality materials that will soften or break down too quickly relative to the price you paid. There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here.

The tutorial post includes a link to the better online memory foam options I’m aware of and several of these sell a mattress that would be similar to the Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe that use similar quality materials at much lower prices with good refund/return options as well. Most of them would be able to tell you which of their mattresses are closest to the Rhapsody Luxe and with a good return option you would be able to use your own personal sleeping experience to decide whether it was a good match for you in terms of PPP with little risk outside of the time and effort involved in returning it if your choice didn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

Phoenix

5

Hi Phoenix, and thanks for the info. :slight_smile:

I did not initially see your link to the Pure Latex Bliss specs (I see it now) so I emailed them to ask them about that and what was meant by the term “bonded foam.” I asked for ILDs for the layers of latex in the Nature and Beautiful and I may have asked about the Mezzanine as well (even though it is a hybrid). I received a reply today from Pure Latex Bliss about the ILD ratings and it stated: “Thank you for your inquiry, but our beds are not built to an ILD rating, they are built to a PLUSHNESS level, which you will find on our website. The Beautiful mattress is a very plus mattress and the Nature is a medium plushness in the scale of offerings. The Mezzanine is a hybrid and an altogether different feel. The best method for finding what speaks to you personally is to ³test drive² them. Purchasing our beds is a very personal experience and finding the right bed for you requires time on the beds themselves.”

Anyway I now see your post about the Pure Latex Bliss ILD ratings, although I am not certain why Pure Latex Bliss did not provide that information to me. As for the term “bonded foam,” they stated it was “95% Poly and 5% Talalay Latex.” Thank you for providing the ILD specs for PLB.

At this point due to not being able to try many latex beds, I am still thinking I want an affordable memory foam mattress. This might change but for now I am thinking memory foam.

I have been busy doing more shopping. I went to a store today that sells MLily memory foam beds. When I got home, I found a post you made about MLily here.

So the ones I was considering do have bamboo charcoal in them. They are Certi-Pur. They definitely feel a lot different from a Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe but they are also a lot cheaper. The memory foam (but from what you stated the “actual” firmness of the memory foam may be altered by the fillers they use) on the models I was most interested in is:

Serenity:

0.5 inches of bamboo infused memory foam quilted into the cover
2.0 inches of M48 “high density” memory foam (quotes are mine; as far as I can ascertain from googling, M48 appears to possibly be 4.8 pounds. Did not find this on their website but from somewhere on google.) (If it is 4.8 lbs, is it possible that the actual foam itself may be less dense since their foam contains things like bamboo charcoal?)
3.0 inches of M36 memory foam (I think this is 3.6 pound foam but again, not certain)
7.5 inches of higher resiliency base foam

They talk about a “semi-open cell structure” with their memory foam. Info on their website.

Bliss:

1.0 inches of bamboo infused memory foam quilted into the silk blended cover
1.5 inches of GelCore gel-infused, maxiumum cool high density memory foam (do not know how dense this is)
2.5 inches of M48 high density memory foam (I think this is 4.8 pounds but again that is a best guess on my part)
2.0 inches of UltraCore HD premium high density rebound memory foam
8.0 inches of higher resiliency base foam

It is not possible to tell from these descriptions what the exact foam densities are. I do not know if any of them are “high density” like 5.3 pound or 7.1 pound. The retailer did not know and I do not see it on the MLily website.

The third bed I considered was:

Vitality: This was the firmest bed and it may not have enough memory foam? (3" I think not including the cover)

1.0 inch of bamboo infused, heat dissipating memory foam quilted into the cover
3.0 inches of M36 (this may be 3.6 pounds from googling; not sure) memory foam featuring naturally renewable plant based oils
7.0 inches of higher resliency base foam

Perhaps you know more about these specs than I do? I will try to find more information.

Thank you for the list of memory foam retailers that you put together here. I will make some calls and report back. For starters, I spoke with Rocky Mountain Mattress about their Rendezvous bed. It contains 4" of 5 lb memory foam. They were great to talk with. I forgot to ask about the densities of the other foam layers. This is the bed they recommended after talking with me. However, a few possible setbacks are: 1. the price is more than I want to pay; 2. I have no one to help me set up the bed so I would probably have to order the White Glove service for an additional $300 as the bed weighs 123 pounds and does not come in layers but as one piece. We also discussed a latex bed option. I also spoke with sleepez: they sell one memory foam bed: 3" of 5.5 lb Sensus memory foam over 6" “HR” which I assume is the core. It seems their main specialty is latex mattresses.

I am interested in any memory foam beds/retailers that can reproduce the feel of certain Tempurpedic mattresses. I was initially interested in Select Foam, but it seems I have read more negative than positive reports of them here, and they have a BBB rating of F with 18 complaints (according to the BBB website today), with 14 of them being about the product/service, so I am not sure about them.

I would love to find someone who sells a variety of high-density memory foam beds at reasonable prices with a good return policy. (Foam weights of 7.1 lb and 5.3 lb to match Tempurpedic). For now I am not looking for my “forever bed” but just a reasonably priced comfy bed until I can afford a forever bed. :slight_smile: I will continue to go through the list you provided.

Thank you and I will continue looking and researching. Feeling overwhelmed! But very glad to have this site as a resource.:slight_smile:

6

Hi missy_

I agree with them that the ILD’s are not necessary and mostly meaningless when you are testing a mattress in person (see post #39 here) and it’s not important to know them although the specs that are listed in the post I linked are accurate. Your own careful and objective testing for PPP is all that really matters. You can also read more about their bonded foam core in post #6 here.

Most likely because they know that the ILD specs aren’t important and that they would end up confusing consumers who try to use “comfort specs” to choose a mattress more than relying on their own careful testing and experience and that these types of “comfort specs” would tend to confuse most consumers more than help them.

You can read some general comments about mLily here and there is some information about the Bliss in post #3 here and my reply in the following post and about the Vitality in post #2 here but I would always make sure that you know the quality/density of all the foam layers in any mattress you are considering. If you can’t find out this information or the retailer you are dealing with isn’t willing or able to find out or confirm it for you (which is part of the job of any good retailer) then I would pass the mattress by. If you can find out the information you need (see this article) and post it on the forum for any mattress you are considering then I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials in the mattress or let you know if I see any obvious weak links in the design.

There are many other options in the memory foam list in the tutorial post besides the ones you mentioned that you aren’t comfortable dealing with that would also be well worth talking to.

I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding and or course any other questions or comments you may have along the way.

Phoenix

7

Thank you, Phoenix. :slight_smile:

If you happen to know this offhand it would be great as it could save me some time; if not, I will find out. Do you know of any manufacturers/retailers that use 7.1 pound memory foam besides Tempurpedic? I am trying to duplicate my Tempurpedic if possible or at least get close.

So far, the densest memory foam spec I have come across that is not Tempurpedic is the 5-pound Sensus memory foam.

If I am sleeping on 4 inches of memory foam that is between 7.1 pounds and 5.3 pounds I am not sure how 3 inches of 5-pound Sensus would feel in comparison. I hope that makes sense. :slight_smile: It seems like it might feel different without having the 7.1 pound in the mix.

My current mattress (if the Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe specs haven’t changed):

Comfort Layers
2" TEMPUR-HD 7.1LB
2" TEMPUR Material 5.3LB

It seems that if I went to 3 inches of 5-pound Sensus that it may not feel the same.

Thank you.

8

Hi missy_

I would keep in mind that memory foam that is made by two different companies can have very different properties and firmness levels even if they are the same density and that density has little to do with the softness/firmness of a material (see post #9 here and post #8 here). I would also keep in mind that while it’s important to know the quality specs of the materials in a mattress to make sure there are no weak links and to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses … they won’t tell you anything by themselves about the “feel” or performance of a mattress because they are just one small part of a much bigger picture. Focusing on too much technical information or detail can end up leading to “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis” and lead to just as many surprising or “less than ideal” choices as not having enough information about a mattress in the first place.

Having said that … I don’t know the specs of all the mattresses that are in the memory foam list off the top of my head but I do know that Select Foam and Christeli both use 7 lb or higher density memory foam in some of their mattresses. I would also keep in mind that a mattress can also be a close approximation or “equivalent” of another mattress that uses a different design or memory foam density in terms of PPP because of how all the materials interact together.

There are only two ways to know or be able to predict how any mattress may feel for you. One is your own personal testing and the other is a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart. They can talk you through the options they have available and are more likely to “educate you” about the options they have and which one is most likely to be the most suitable choice for you instead of just “selling you” anything they can. If you still aren’t confident about how suitable a mattress may be for you after a more detailed phone conversation then I would also make sure you are comfortable with the options you have after a purchase to exchange or return a mattress (and any costs involved) just in case, and in spite of the “best efforts” of both you and the retailer/manufacturer, your own personal sleeping experience indicates that a mattress isn’t as close to your “ideal” as you hoped for.

Phoenix

9

Argh! Brooklyn Bedding’s PureCool Symphony versus Novosbed Aria …

Will they both sleep equally cool, I wonder?

Novosbed Aria is more in my price range. I am a hot sleeper. The Aria has vents to vent heat but no phase change technology like the PureCool Symphony.

Any thoughts?

Specs:

Brooklyn Bedding’s PureCool Symphony
4-way Stretch Cotton Mattress Cover
1" 5lb PureCool™ Memory Foam
3" 4lb Memory Foam
8" 2.17lb BB HD Foam Core
12" thick mattress
Comparable to Tempurpedic Rhapsody Breeze
120-night exchange or 60-day refund
$200 return shipping to return bed
$1899 not including discount

Novosflow Aria mattress:
2″ of Premium Plush Memory Foam (4.1 lbs/ft3)
2″ of Premium Memory Foam (5.2 lbs/ft3)
7″ of Premium Support Foam (2 lbs/ft3)
Dual Novosflow promotes air circulation through the mattress
11" thick mattress
Comparable to Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme
120-day return policy
Free shipping both ways (they donate mattress to a local charity if it is returned)
$999

Wondering if they will both sleep cool. Also am wondering about overall thickness as it seems I do better on a thicker mattress with more support layers due to my arm easily falls asleep if there are not enough support layers or if the mattress pushes back too much. Mattress I am currently on is 13".

Return policies: I have found that even after 60 days, a bed can continue to change, so I am a bit unsure about Brooklyn Bedding’s 60-day return policy. They do have an exchange policy of up to 120 days.

The Aria is more like the Cloud Supreme (they do not make a bed similar to the Rhapsody Breeze; I may go into more details in a later post.). The PureCool Symphony is similar to the Rhapsody Breeze and has phase change material.

Also I just noticed that the Aria has the less dense foam on top and the more dense foam on bottom, whereas the PureCool Symphony has the denser foam on top and the less dense foam on bottom (more similar to the Rhapsody Breeze or the Rhapsody Luxe although again the densities do not match - thanks for your thoughts on foam densities and different manufacturers, Phoenix! – however I do wonder how the order of the layering of denser versus less dense foam layers will affect the longevity of the beds?

If “you get what you pay for” is the case here, then I wonder if the more expensive one is the better bed. Or if they are both of equal quality. Argh, so confusing!

Any thoughts about any of my thoughts would be appreciated as I am having so much trouble making a decision!

10

Hi missy,

The Brooklyn Bedding’s PureCool Symphony uses the Tempurpedic Rhapsody Breeze as a reference point and the Novosflow Aria mattress uses the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme as a reference point so it may be an idea to test both of the Tempurepedic mattresses to see which one seems to be a better “match” for you in terms of PPP to help you decide. There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress in post #13 here and how well a mattress matches your specific needs and preferences and how well you are likely to sleep on it is the most important part of any mattress choice.

Unfortunately there is no specific comparative testing or scientific information available that compares different mattresses in terms of sleeping temperature so outside of the knowledge and experience of a manufacturer or retailer it’s not really possible to predict or compare how warm or cool any specific mattress will sleep for any specific person except based on personal experience because there are so many variables and subjective factors involved (including where you are in the “oven to iceberg range”). There is more about the many factors that can affect temperature regulation in post #2 here and more about different ways that can be used to cool down memory foam mattresses in post #6 here (memory foam in general tends to sleep warmer than other types of foam) that in combination with your conversations with each manufacturer and your “best judgement” can help you make a more informed choice about whether a mattress will be “cool or warm enough” for you regardless of how cool or warm it may sleep for someone else.

While it’s true that if all the other factors are equal that a thicker mattress will tend to feel softer than a thinner mattress … this is only true if all the materials are exactly the same but with two different mattresses that have different designs and use different types and firmness levels of foam the design of the mattress and the specifics of the materials inside it will have much more to do with its firmness level and how it feels and performs than the thickness of the mattress. Some 6" mattresses for example may feel softer than some 15" mattresses depending on the combination of materials inside each one of them.

A new mattress has an initial break in period over the first few weeks or months (30 - 90 days would be the norm but it’s not usually as long as 90 days) as the cover stretches and loses some of its initial stiffness and the foams lose any of their initial “false firmness” but if a mattress uses good quality and durable materials then once the break in period is over any further changes will stabilize and happen much more slowly over a much longer period of time. Of course if the materials are lower quality then they will continue to soften and break down much more quickly than higher quality materials so in these cases the changes and softening would be more rapid and ongoing.

Neither one of the mattresses you are considering has any weak links or lower quality materials in their design (see post #4 here).

[quote]If “you get what you pay for” is the case here, then I wonder if the more expensive one is the better bed. Or if they are both of equal quality. Argh, so confusing!

Any thoughts about any of my thoughts would be appreciated as I am having so much trouble making a decision! [/quote]

Post #2 here may be helpful when you are down to final choices that are comparing “good vs good” and there are no clear “winners” between them.

Phoenix

11

Thank you, Phoenix, for all of your help!

I pulled the trigger on the Aria by Novosform.

It should hopefully arrive Tuesday but I do not expect I will be able to set it up until Wednesday.

I will let everyone know how it goes! Fingers crossed. :slight_smile:

12

Hi missy_

You certainly did some good research and asked lots of questions and ended up making a high quality/value choice.

Congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your feedback when you receive it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix

13

Thank you, Phoenix. :slight_smile:

I received the mattress today. I have not unpacked it yet.

I have started a new thread about it here:

My New Novosbed Mattress: My experience versus Tempurpedic