Their 4lb memory foam is good, i have seen complaints about their polyfoam durability but not the memory foam. If you didn’t even want to spend that much, you could also put a 1.5" layer of their egg crate hd36 foam. That tranquility foam would also work. All you’re needing to do is increase the depth of the comfort layer before you get to the base. You could also add 1" of soft dunlop if you wanted.
Keep in mind what you want from your viscoelastic foam. Remember density correlates durability and longevity, but can be formulated to be very soft or very firm and anywhere between.
It happens that foam by mail is very soft with their 4 and 5lb ve foam.
I am not suggesting good or bad, but you have to determine what you are looking for and if their version aligns with your needs.
Maverick
Very good point Maverick. My understanding is that most top layer material is typically in the lower ILD rating range anywhere between 8-20 ild. Isnt most viscoelastic memory foam on the market on the lower end of that range (8-15)? The specialty foams like Energex, Hypurgel, Titanflex etc can push up into the middle to high teens in ILD. My old mattress had 3inches of viscoelastic memory foam on top but I dont know the ILD rating. All I know is that 2inches of Dunlop Latex on top of my HR base is too firm and adding another 2 inches does make it softer and more comfortable. I have contemplated buying a memory foam topper at Costco to at least give me an idea of the feel and if I dont like it at least I know I can return it with no problem. Most of their toppers dont provide the specs so im not sure what im getting when I buy. Unfortunately Costco is currently sold out of the soft Dunlop Latex topper in a queen size so I cant even try that at the moment. The Tranquility foam topper at Wayfair is available but I dont think I can return it once it is opened. At the end of the day I just need to add something to soften my current build so that I can actually sleep. The current setup basically feels like the floor with the pushback of latex added to it.
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Foam by Mail 4lb VE Memory Foam
| Density (LB/Cubic Ft.) | ASTM D 3574 | 4 |
|---|---|---|
| 25% ILD (LB) | ASTM D 3574 | ≈14 (±4) † |
| Fire Retardant | CA TB #117 | Pass |
| CertiPUR-US® Certification | CertiPUR-US® | |
| Standard | ||
| as of 1/7/2017 | Pass |
5lb VE Memory Foam
| Density (LB/Cubic Ft.) | ASTM D 3574 | 5 |
|---|---|---|
| 25% ILD (LB) | ASTM D 3574 | ≈12 (±4) † |
| Tensile (PSI) Min. | ASTM D 3574 | 6.0 |
| Fire Retardant | CA TB #117 | Pass |
| Anti-Bacterial | ISO 20743:2007 | Pass |
| Anti-Fungal | A.A.T.C.C. 30 | Pass |
| CertiPUR-US® Certification | CertiPUR-US® | |
| Standard | ||
| as of 1/7/2017 | Pass |
Well, sort of.
You’re broadly in the right neighborhood with the ILD ranges, but with viscoelastic memory foam ILD is a bit of a misleading comparison. Most conventional memory foams do tend to behave like they’re in that lower ILD band (roughly 8–15), but the way they respond in use is very different from latex or even polyfoam in the same nominal range.
The key difference is that memory foam is both time-dependent and temperature-sensitive. So even if two foams test similarly on ILD, the visco foam will feel firmer at first contact and then progressively soften as it warms from body heat and as the material flows or melts under sustained pressure. That’s why ambient room temperature and bedding layers can noticeably affect perceived firmness, it’s not just the ILD, it’s how quickly it reaches its operating state.
That also helps explain why Dunlop behaves the way you’re describing. Even when you add thickness, Dunlop still has a strong support factor (progressive resistance) and that elastic pushback, so it tends to resist or lessen deep contouring. In contrast, your old 3" visco layer likely allowed more gradual pressure redistribution, which is why it felt more forgiving even without knowing the ILD.
On the topper side, your Costco idea is actually a reasonable way to test feel, even without specs. I had a Tempurpedic 3" Memory Foam Topper for a New York Minute, and my wife hated the hot lava quicksand, trap you in the mattress in a straight jacket feel. Ok, it was not quite that bad, remove the straight jacket part, but you do feel stuck in the mattress and you do heat up and it is hard to roll around. You’re not going to learn ILD from it, but you will learn whether you tolerate the slow response, heat build-up, and sinking behavior that come with visco foam. That’s really the deciding factor more than the numbers.
The Wayfair option is the riskier one simply because once opened you’re locked in, and without density/ILD transparency you’re essentially buying blind.
At this point, your diagnosis of the issue is reasonably accurate, you don’t need more support, you need a true pressure-relieving comfort layer that dampens the latex pushback. That usually points toward visco or very low-density soft polyfoam rather than adding more Dunlop. Keep in mind that TitanFlex, Energex, and Malouf’s activedough and dough (not sure if they still make toppers in those materials, but yes, I have one) are all essentially the same idea, are latex alternatives that fall right between latex and memory foam, in so far as feel. They generally have less pushback than latex, but faster response than VE Memory Foam. Technically, they are polyfoams that some have elements of viscoelastic foam and HR foam, depending on their formulations.
Just wanted to add that the Tranquility foam topper at Wayfair does have specs in that it is 2.5-3lbs density with a minimum of 11ILD (plus or minus 4)and a support factor of 2.4. Seems like it is basically a low ILD HR foam.
I did not see that Tranquility topper at wayfair, but BBBY has it for $129, so the risk is minimal if it doesnt work. You could turn it into pillows or couch cushions if it doesnt work and you cant return it. Homedepot has a Tranquility foam topper for under $105.
Not much risk there and it is Home Depot, so it should be returnable.
Unfortunately the only place that has the Tranquility Foam topper is Wayfair in Canada. Homedepot and BedBathand Beyond dont have them up north here in Canada.
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Just wanted to provide an update on the latest trials and tribulations. I ended up buying the Novaform ComfortLuxe 3 inch Gel memory Foam topper from Costco as it is the only place that offers a generous return policy. I will say that putting the memory foam on top does mute the pushback from the Latex and it definitely does feel less firm. However the build still feels a little firm. This may be because I am used to an unsupportive mattress or it could be that I’m still bottoming out the memory foam and the latex still. I do notice that even at 3inches I can completely sink through the Memory foam. I realize that Novaform Memory foam density is likely somewhere in the 3lbs range so it is not the best relative to a 4lbs or 5lbs Memory Foam. I’m going to try moving the layers around and have the latex on top to see how that fairs, but I feel like I may need to get something to transition between the top layer and the base, and remove the latex entirely as it may be that latex is just not for me. I’m not too sure what to do. I guess I will do some more trial and see how it goes. Any suggestions are welcome.
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It sounds like you are having quite a learning experience here and are actually learning a lot from this trial along with a little frustration. My guess is that the memory foam topper is doing what it should by taking away some of the pushback from the latex, but because it is only 3 inches and a softer, lower density foam, you may still be getting down to the latex underneath. That could be why it feels better but still not quite soft enough.
I think the challenge with going to a much denser memory foam is that you may end up with a different problem, which is that stuck-in-the-mattress feeling. My wife hated when I experimented with a 3" Tempur-Pedic topper some years ago. She felt like she was being buried in hot lava quicksand and could not easily move around or get in and out of bed.
I would definitely try moving the layers around, but I would also keep in mind that the issue may not be that you hate latex. It may just be that the latex is too close to the surface and your body, and that pushback is translating into a firmer feel. A softer transition layer between the memory foam and the latex or base could make a big difference because it would give your body more time to settle in before feeling the firmer support underneath.
I think the best thing is to keep experimenting before buying more things. Try the latex on top (although I do not have high hopes for this one), and try the memory foam without the latex. Pay attention to whether the problem is actual pressure on your shoulders and hips, or whether the mattress simply feels firmer than what you are used to. But do give it time for your body to adjust. A few days to a week, is not enough time, but as each day goes by, you should see improvement.
If the memory foam feels close but you still feel like you are reaching the firmer latex layer too quickly, adding a transition layer between them may be the answer. It is also possible that latex just is not the feel you prefer, and there is nothing wrong with building around a softer memory foam feel if that is what gives you the best sleep. This is where it gets tricky. Possibly a layer of Serene foam, if it is available in your area, could be worth looking into.
One other thought: did the Novaform come with a zippered cover? If not, you may be able to get a 3" cover online, they are usually under $50 on Amazon. A snug cover might slightly change the feel and help keep the foam more contained, although I am not sure it would make a major difference with bottoming out. But it is worth a shot.
Maverick
Thanks Maverick for the quick response. I appreciate it. This has definitely been more of a learning curve than I expected and hopefully a worth while endeavor. Im going to play around with the layers a bit but like you said I dont have much confidence in the latex layer being on top, but you never know. I also noticed that when putting the latex layer inside my stretch knit cover over top of the base that it is quite snug and difficult to zipper up in some spots especially the corners. Could this be influencing the latex feel as I have heard this can cause a drum affect if the cover is too tight? I will probably pull the latex out of the cover to see if that makes any difference. I was told to buy an 8in cover for the 6in base and 2in topper. Perhaps I needed more wiggle room there. What are your thoughts?
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Sometimes it’s a learning curve, and sometimes it’s a “best educated guess” curve… LOL! It definitely couldn’t hurt to rotate a couple of things around. The 8" cover should have worked with the 6" base and 2" comfort layer. Sometimes those covers can be a little finicky.
My guest room ThermoBalance Elite was a bit of a mild struggle when I was putting the comfort layer into the zippered cover. I finally just walked away for a minute, came back to it, and calmly worked the comfort layer into the zippered compartment. A little elbow grease, and it all came together.
The tautness or stretch of a cover can absolutely influence how the components feel, respond, and perform, so it’s definitely not something to overlook.
I did not end up changing anything last night as I was exhausted and funny enough I actually slept so perhaps it just needs to break in and my body needs to adapt. I think I will still switch some things around to see how it feels. I will say that the 3in Novaform Comfortluxe Plus Gel memory foam does not feel like memory foam at all. It has a pretty rapid response when it is returning from a compressed state. It also compresses relatively easily and does not provide much in terms of support, but does do its job in reducing pressure points and dampening the latex pushback.
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Another quick question…after another night of poor sleep…how long does it take before you know if layer changes/adjustments are working or are no good? I would gather that there is an adjustment period when any change is made to the components.
I like to give it a week or two. You can swap layers around nightly to see if you hit a home run, but that’s really just a short-term impression. It’s much like trying out a mattress in a showroom. It can feel great in that environment and even for the first few nights at home, until a week or two later when you realize it’s not providing the support or comfort you need. Your body also needs a little time to adjust to changes in alignment and pressure relief, especially if you’ve been dealing with discomfort for a while. That’s why I think it’s worth giving any meaningful change enough time before deciding whether it’s truly working.
A week or two seems reasonable. Its very strange as I don’t find myself waking up with any discomfort or pain. I just don’t sleep or my sleep is sporadic and interrupted and I don’t know why but I’m assuming it is because of the firmness of the mattress. If I were to go back to sleeping on my old mattress, I sleep fine with no interruption but I know it is not providing the proper support anymore. Tonight I’m going to try removing the latex from the cover as I’m suspecting it may be a little tight and is making it feel more firm. I did a quick unzip of the cover early in the morning and did notice a slight difference, but I will have to try it out over the course of the night to really get an idea. Next step is to remove the latex layer entirely to see if that helps, or move the latex to the top and the memory foam in the middle. If that doesn’t work I will be back to researching a different layer or a different topper to try. Thanks again Maverick for your feedback and responses. Cheers
DN,
I know you’ve been very methodical with your testing, and I think your plan for tonight makes sense. Unzipping the cover and then trying different layer configurations should give you a better idea of whether the firmness or compression is the issue.
Since you’ve already explored so many mattress-related possibilities, it may also be worth considering whether something outside the mattress is contributing to the interrupted sleep. Sometimes it’s not discomfort that wakes us, but changes in our sleep environment. I have written about this extensively and there is real value in investigating it.
For example, using a computer or phone right up until bedtime can affect some people’s sleep because blue light may delay or disrupt the body’s natural sleep rhythm. Temperature is another factor. As we fall asleep, our core body temperature naturally drops, and it gradually rises again as we approach waking. If you become too warm during the night, that can sometimes lead to more frequent awakenings or restless sleep, even if you’re not experiencing pain or pressure points.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily what’s happening here, but given everything you’ve already tried with the mattress, it may be another variable worth considering. There are products like the Perfectly Snug Smart Topper that actively regulate sleeping temperature throughout the night, though something as simple as adjusting room temperature or bedding can also make a difference.
Hopefully tonight’s test with the cover gives you some useful information. I’m interested to hear what you find. But do give other environmental factors a thought. Even use brown noise or some other sound and scent device. My wife can not seem to fall asleep without that sound machine on her night table.
At this point, you might as well test every theory, even if a bit unconventional.
Maverick
I definitely will be considering other factors. That being said i make it a point to not watch screens at least one hour or more before sleep so the blue light is likely not much of an issue. Temperature may be one thing to look at although I havent noticed feeling uncomfortable due to excessive heat but I will have to consider it. I will say that removing the latex layer from the cover made a slight change in feel with a little less firmness/pushback, but not as much as I thought. What is interesting and a bit strange is that when I put the Latex layer on top of the Memory foam instead of it being in the middle the mattress feels softer with less pushback. This seems counterintuitive as the Dunlop latex is 20ild and the Memory foam is certainly way less then that. My guess is that the memory foam is giving the latex layer more room to sink before reaching the point of really firming up and pushing back. I did not sleep on the mattress in this configuration all night though so I will likely try it that way for a full night to see. The Latex definitely makes the mattress feel cooler on top though.
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The change you’re feeling actually makes sense because, as you know, the order of the layers changes how they interact, not just their individual firmness. With the latex on top of the memory foam, the softer memory foam underneath allows the latex to compress more deeply before it reaches its more supportive, higher-resistance range, so the overall feel is softer and less “pushy” despite the latex itself being firmer than the memory foam.
In the original configuration, you sink through the memory foam until you engage the latex below, which creates a more noticeable transition into support and a stronger sense of pushback. The fact that the latex also feels cooler on top is an added benefit, so it’s definitely worth sleeping on this configuration for several nights to see whether the softer feel and improved surface cooling translate into better sleep quality rather than just a different initial impression.
As for everything else, it’s really just a matter of checking off the remaining variables. Sometimes things totally overlooked that would seem minor, but can play a participating factor. Blue light is already well controlled in your case, but subtle changes in body temperature during sleep, often too slight to consciously notice, can still influence sleep quality because they’re tied to your body’s normal physiology and sleep regulation. The goal is simply to rule out each potential factor one by one so you can be more confident that any improvements or problems are actually coming from the mattress configuration rather than something else.
Keep at it.
Its definitely more encouraging to be getting somewhere with all this. My question to you is do you think it would be worth buying a layer more suited for a transition layer than the memory foam with the latex on top if it works out to be better that way? Memory foam has a much lower ILD and is more suited as a top comfort layer so my thinking is that it may be more beneficial and possibly cheaper to buy a transition layer more suitable for that position. That being said Im a little hesitant to add another variable at the moment. What are your thoughts?
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I think your thought process thus far is reasonable, and from a purely mattress-design standpoint, a more traditional transition layer could make sense in that position, as I think I mentioned that a bit back. A latex comfort layer over a more supportive transition layer is a common way to attach this because the transition material is meant to help manage compression before reaching the deeper support layers.
That being said, I would be hesitant to add another variable right now. The fact that the latex-over-memory-foam configuration is already producing a noticeable change is actually useful information, and I think it’s worth giving that setup a fair trial before buying anything else. Sometimes the “unconventional” combinations work well because the materials are interacting differently than we expect on paper.
Just as you eliminated, one by one, blue light, body temperature and so on, you dont want to bring too many changes at the same time in the mix, because you never know for certain which change is making the impact.
My concern would be spending more money trying to optimize something that may already be close, while we still don’t know whether the issue is the mattress itself or another factor. I would rather see you sleep on this configuration for a longer stretch and see if the initial impressions hold up over multiple nights.
I’m also still curious about the pillow variable. Since you spend time on your side, having the right support when your arm is positioned that way could make more of a difference than we might think. A pillow change is a much smaller experiment than changing another mattress layer, and it may help us separate “mattress issue” from “sleep position/support issue.”
So my vote would be: keep testing the latex-on-top configuration, avoid spending more money for now, and work through the remaining variables one at a time. If after a solid trial period it is clearly better but still missing something, then we can talk about whether a dedicated transition layer is actually worth exploring.
That’s my story and I am sticking to it…for now 