The Pillow: Just How Important is it?

Beyond Mattresses
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Time to buy new pillows, would like @Maverick’s input, as well as others.

I am 6’3, 185 but 200 lbs more commonly (185-215 range), predominantly side and back sleeper. In my 60s. Shoulders broader than hips. My goal is a pillow that helps avoid shoulder pain when side sleeping.I don’t ever get neck pain from sleeping. I have an adjustable bed and sleep with a very slight incline.

I often put my hand under my current pillow (probably means pillow is not supportive enough), and curl my fingers, which causes me to have hand problems which usually resolve in a day or two. Our pillows have always just been purchased at regular stores, probably polyester fill or such. Nothing special.

For the moment, I am not interested in creating a custom, multi chambered pillow. I don’t mind ordering from overseas. My wife had a yoga pillow I used the other day while doing floor exercises and since I had read this thread, I immediately said this has to be buckwheat. It was. It is 6.5 inches tall; too tall to try it on the bed for a night without risking a sore neck.

I suspect I would not like buckwheat anyway. For side sleeping, the idea of a gusseted pillow seems good, but perhaps not so good for when I am on my back. A butterfly shaped pillow seems to me to be more a gimmick. I like the idea of being able to adjust the fill if possible because I know little changes can make big differences, but I am not wedded to this idea.

Your thoughts and suggestions?

I know your two current favorites are the Oxygen pillow and the cubed latex pillow.

Is Oxygen a solid latex pillow? Someone (Trusted member iirc) posted that for solid a 6" thick or more med to firm is best for side sleepers but takes an adjustment period (6.5" buckwheat makes me question the 6"). European Sleepworks does not discuss the cubed latex pillow on their website, is it available?

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6ft2 285 side sleeper hybrid or all latex!
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I had nerve compression issues and learned a few things that might be precautionary for you… My neurologist told me to stop doing that because it causes stress in the shoulder area which can compress nerves, tendons, and blood vessels, as well as general stress on the joint. From my physical therapists, keep your arms (they mean elbow) below shoulder level. Finally, from other reading related to nerves in the arm, you needn’t keep your elbow straight unless you have specific issues, but keeping it bent too much can stress not just your elbow, but also tendons at the shoulder and wrist.

As far as pillows, I only do adjustables where I can either change the height or stuffing, or that is closed but allows material to move around. There’s good and bad to this. If you move a lot, then the initial position you set the pillow won’t be good anymore once you move. Either way, you want to have the pillow at the right height for side sleeping. There’s a contradition: if you move, you want to adjust the pillow, but I just gave you the down side–you need to adjust it in your sleep. Also, consider the different angles your head may lay in, a well as neck support. I’ll just point out one issue here. Wide shoulders will raise the spine which raises the neck, and I’m of the opinion that you then want to continue that curve or angle through your neck and head, so the top of the pillow (near the top of your head) might be a bit higher or lower than the bottom near your neck. Well, it’s not straightforward and sometimes keeping the top lower can ease the pressure.

Natural fibers and seeds are coolest, then latex, then foam is the hottest.

You might think you need support, but I’m not sure what that is. Shredded latex (remember I only use adjustables so it’s shredded) moves around a lot, so its support is a bit like a seesaw. It moves with you, but it might allow more movement than you want. It may or may not support to your liking. Next in terms of less movement and stiffer support is shredded foam, then wool, then capoc, and finally buckwheat which can be a bit like a block of wood finely carved to perfectly fit your face, but it’s surpisingly comfortable for that.

If you can find a non-adjustable pillow that fits you, that might be best, but I suggest separate pillows for side and back sleeping. You will want very different properties from them.

Enough for now

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Yes, I am very fond of my Oxygen Pillow, I often will pluck a pillow from one of the other beds, there are about 50 choices. I always seem to come back to the oxygen.
I have not done well with the solid latex pillows, they just are not firm enough for me.
A couple of suggestions.
Malouf Dough High Loft Pillow (not the active dough) (you pick the flavor, gel, carbon, lavender, but not carbon cool, the blue cooling gets all over the place)

Brooklyn Bedding’s Shredded Foam Pillow (you can call them the day after you receive it and ask them for more fill, they send it for free). It is a combination of deconstructed latex and memory foam. It is lofty, supportive, not too bouncy.

ESW cube vs oxygen.

Oxygen pillow

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The perimeter is solid and firmish, in my opinion, way more firm than most traditional solid latex pillows. Although it does not feel like it, the pillow is hollow in the center. Here this person describes the design and how the pillow works.
You can really feel the support under your neck with this pillow.

The cube pillow is perhaps 1.5" square cubes packed into the pillow to create a firmer more comfortable resting place for the head and neck support over an ordinary solid latex pillow. I feel my O2 pillow is firmer around the edges than the cube, but the cube feels fairly consistent regardless of how you are positioned on the pillow, which for some is essential, particularly if you move around a lot. I have extra fill, but did not need it as I asked to have the pillow “over stuffed”.

I learned this with my baa-noodle pillow from cozypure. The baa-noodle is another nice pillow, but with the initial stuff, it was too soft. When I added the extra fill I ordered with the pillow (about $10 or so extra) the pillow firmed up to a comfortable level for me. Plus the one side with the wool batting added a bit of firmness. I really like this pillow, but like the O2 firmness I chose better.

None of these, the noodle, cube or O2 are very bouncy. They have bounce and response, but are not bouncy, if that makes sense. Whereas the solid latex pillows my wife uses are squishy and bouncy at the same time, just too squishy for me.

The Malouf Dough pillow feels like a solid latex and memory foam combined to make a new material. You sink in a little, the pillow bounces back when you remove your head, but it is not bouncy when you sleep, so you dont feel like your head is bobbing all through the night.

The Brooklyn Bedding comes quite lofty and really holds it shape when you lie on it. It does have a little bounce, but it is dampened by memory foam.

I do hear folks talking about the Coop Pillow and Bed Gear. Coop is just memory foam and microfiber fill. So it offers the cuddling and dampening of memory foam and the loft created by the microfiber fill. The bedgear has combinations of solid on one side, shredded on the other and all combinations of either. I found the bedgear they suggested for me via their site, was still to squishy and soft for me.

When I say too soft, I am generally referring to squishy and sinking, almost bottoming out the pillow. My horse hair pillows and wool pillows are very firm, but do lack the contouring I have become to enjoy when sleeping on the pillow. Although, I will occasionally rotate my horsehair pillow in to the mix lately. It will keep my head and neck from sinking at all and maintain a more perfectly straight alignment.

I have often said that there is more than one mattress that an individual will love to sleep on made in different construction styles. I definitely do not like a soft sinking mattress, but a firm mattress with softer panel is comfortable as it a firm mattress with a firm panel.

I have the same feeling with my pillows. Sometimes I like a firm, minimal movement pillow, and other times I am ok with a firm pillow with a little contouring, like the O2 pillow.

The fact that you are in the same age group, close in height and weight, it may get down to the firmness of your mattress that will determine the loft and final feel of your pillow.

Maverick

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45

Thank you both so much. Time to look into all you suggested,

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I went through a whole pillow saga about 10 years ago and almost filmed a YouTube video about it with hopes to help others lol I have a huge collection of pillows (latex, shredded latex, cervical pillow, buckwheat, etc) but found the ones that work best for my comfort are the buckwheat neck pillows! I travel for a living and I never forget to bring my travel buckwheat pillow- otherwise I won’t sleep! I’m already up against not so great mattresses in hotels, I at least need my own pillow to stand a chance of getting any rest. I’m glad I’m not the only one that knows the importance of the right pillows!

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@cupcake25 Can you give a recommendation (or multiple ones) for a buckwheat pillow that you enjoy?
Are you saying you use these kinds of pillows for travel sleeping, sleeping in hotel beds, normal sleeping in a bed at home or all of the above?

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48

Absolutely!

So I bought two of the buckwheat small neck pillows (I’m a petite person) from Comfy Comfy about 8 years ago. They almost closed their business recently, but ended up moving it to Canada. So depending where you are, you should still be able to buy from them! But I’m sure you can find something very similar on Amazon as well, if you prefer. One of those I keep strictly for travel as I travel for a living. So I bring to all hotels with me to put under my neck. Can’t leave home without it!

And then I bought two Good Roll pillows from my chiropractor which I also love, and you can buy here:

I sleep with these at home under my neck as well. No traditional pillow has worked for me or keeps my neck in the proper position except these types of pillows! I saw some YouTube videos of people buying buckwheat pillows from a company called J Life International if you want to look into theirs as well. I have a bunch of organic Avocado brand latex pillows too, but I only use those for hugging or in between my knees.

I hope this helps! Pillows make such a difference, just like the right mattress does :slight_smile:

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49

Sachi has been making buckwheat and millet hull pillows for over 40 years. It’s a great family business. You can order directly from them or from us—here’s their assortment.

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50

To follow up, I bought the cube cut pillow from European Sleep Works.

But first I bought an $18 pillow for side sleepers at Walmart. Horrible, but I learned I really don’t need king size just because it is on a king bed, so $18 well spent. Wife got a couple inexpensive king pillows in shams for decor purposes, so a standard size is just fine for sleeping.

Nearby store had a Malouf Active Dough pillow. The pillow fit seemed off for me, both with and without shoulder cutouts.

I have also been experimenting with pillow height by putting towels under my pillow as was suggested by Nosferatu. Even small changes make a noticeable difference, so I was biased against a pillow I could not adjust, which ruled out the Oxygen Pillow.

The cube cut pillow is pricey (over $200 with shipping), but after a week I am pretty happy with it. I have not made any adjustments; it’s comfortable and the height and support are such I don’t get shoulder pain when I side sleep now.

I also decided to try sleeping with a pillow under my knees, and I think it results in me sleeping more on my back and less on my side. Perhaps side sleeping was a result of back discomfort I did not know I had?

Details on the pillow:

Weighs over 4 pounds. It is like 9.5 inches thick at its highest point! I do not know what material the gusseted cover is made of, but inside it is what looks to be a thin wool batting, secured in place with thin stretchy material. The latex cubes aren’t uniform but are reasonably similar in size. They vary in firmness and density. No idea if it is a precise mix or not.

The latex had no smell. The cover had a slight odor. Most people would not notice but I have a sensitive nose. I put it out in the sun for a day, and I think that took care of it, but my nose is congested so I can’t be sure.

All in all, so far I am happy with this pillow. Thanks all.

Still, I am a bit of an experimenter, so more pillows might be in my future, just cuz - the latex noodles with wool batting sounds interesting; I’d like to try a properly sized buckwheat pillow; If Maverick can share where he got blonde horsehair I might even look into that.

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51

Hey DQ,

How goes it? I’m glad to hear the cube-filled latex pillow worked out for you. It really helped me during my back injury back in April. I used it for several months and it made a big difference. I still love my Oxygen Pillow, but the cube pillow filled a gap for me when I needed something more uniformly stuffed when I was moving around a lot, to support my back while it was healing.

For me, the O2 gives more supportive for my neck and head, but they each serve their own purpose. That’s why I don’t think anyone should rely on just one pillow for all their sleep needs. You don’t use just one pair of sneakers, one pair of shoes, or one set of eyeglasses for every situation (or at least, you shouldn’t), so the same logic should apply to pillows. Different conditions call for different tools.

This is this is where I bought my blonde horsehair and a couple of my horsehair pillows. I need to get up to @ShovlinMattress, I’m planning to check out their stock of horsehair in person, and also swing by Orange Mattress just down the road who also does horsehair pillows, mattresses and toppers. I want to compare the springiness of the hair between the two. I know it’ll be more expensive, but in the name of science and experimentation, I’m willing to give it a shot. Just need to carve out the half-hour drive to make it to their showrooms.

Yes, the cube was a bit pricey, and so was the 5’ long body pillow I ordered, but I still think both were worth it. That said, my wife hated it the body pillow because it looked like there was another “body” in the bed with us. So, I divided it up and made two king-sized pillows out of it. Now I use one as a smaller body pillow and it works just fine.

I also have a Malouf Dough pillow (not the ActiveDough, that one’s too soft for me), and while it’s decent, I just prefer the O2 and the cube-filled options better.

So, my current three-pillow rotation is the Oxygen Pillow, the Cube-Filled Pillow, and the Horsehair.

Like me, keep experimenting. You never know what will work better. I did buy some wool batting from Sonoma Wool Company. I have tried it with the various pillow fills, sometimes on just one side of the pillow, and others to line the complete circumference of the pillow. Much like @EuropeanSleep uses their wool filled quilting in their pillow cover for the cube filled pillow.

Happy experimenting,

Maverick

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If you’re stuffing your own pillows with shredded or fine natural materials like latex, kapok, or wool, or feathers, or anything with small particles, be meticulously careful. Wear a face mask anywhere near the stuff, clean the area and especially the pillow like it were hazardous material, stuff the zipped pillow in a second cover outside the area where you stuff it AFTER you clean that and you too, and BEFORE you put it into a regular pillow case. I won’t bother you with details, but the last time I stuffed my pillow, it ended up with the doctor prescribing antibiotics. :sleepy_face: :laughing:

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Typically, when I stuff a pillow, it’s with latex or wool, though I’ve also experimented with some memory foam. I usually transfer the fill from one zippered cover (used to hold the loose fill) into an organic or cotton pillow liner, which then goes inside the actual pillow cover.

Sometimes I use a piece of poster board to make a makeshift funnel, which helps pour the fill more easily and with less mess. After that, I insert the pillow liner into the cover, add a stretchy protective pillow cover, and finally put on the pillowcase.

Since I usually do just one pillow at a time, exposure is minimal. If I were stuffing multiple pillows, your advice would be especially wise and valuable. Thank you for sharing it.

Maverick

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Glad to hear you found some success with the cubed latex. The cover is a 100% organic cotton sateen, quilted to wool, with a 100% organic cotton tricot backing (the stretchy stuff). The firmnesses of the cubes will vary slightly, but come from a fairly small range of softer material. Let me know if you ever need any assistance. Best! :slight_smile:

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I am still liking the cube cut pillow. The faint smell did go away by putting the pillow in the sun a few days. And thanks for the info about the cover; I was pretty sure it was good stuff, but I just didn’t know details.

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Is the cube cut latex pillow still available? I can only seem to find the Oxygen pillow on your website.

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You have to call @EuropeanSleep European Sleep Works and speak with any staff member, they can advise on the cube cut filled pillow. They have not yet listed them on the website, but should be able to craft one for you, to your liking and preferences.

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Yeah, pillows are way underrated—people drop thousands on a mattress then grab whatever’s on sale and wonder why their neck hurts.

Totally agree on matching loft to position and mattress sink: side sleepers need higher to fill the shoulder gap, back sleepers want medium-firm contour, stomach sleepers low and soft. I switched to a shredded latex adjustable one after a new hybrid and it’s been night and day—no more waking up stiff. What pillow you suggest right now?

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Sorry for the delay in reply (Thanks, Maverick). It is not on the site yet (we are all slower than molasses, lol). Just call and talk to anyone here, and we will get you set up. :slight_smile:

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I rotate between four primary pillows because just as there is no one perfect mattress, as far as I am concerned, there is no single perfect pillow for every situation or night. My current setup includes an Oxygen-Pillow, which has a unique solid perimeter of layered latex surrounding a hollow center, a cube-cut latex pillow made from symmetrically sized latex cubes and is modifiable, a CozyPure Baa-Noodle pillow filled with modifiable latex noodles, and a custom filled horsehair pillow. All of them are fairly lofty and supportive, with the horsehair being the firmest and the coolest, although they all sleep very cool. The symmetrically sized filled latex pillows in particular displace fill differently than standard randomly shredded foam, providing a more stable and predictable feel that doesn’t collapse or bunch overnight.

I sleep with a two-pillow stack, keeping a consistent base pillow and rotating the top pillow depending on how my body feels that night. Rotation is important because sleep needs constantly change. Temporary stiffness, congestion or breathing issues, shoulder tension, workout recovery, lower or mid-back discomfort, or even seasonal shifts can all require different loft, firmness, or elevation to maintain proper alignment. Relying on a single pillow year-round ignores how dynamic the body is, and having multiple pillows to rotate is one of the simplest ways to protect spinal alignment and improve long-term sleep quality.

As you can see, the answer to what pillow is not an easy answer, as the answer becomes what pillows do I sleep on. Yeah, all of these pillows are pretty pricey, but for me, not waking up with a headache, neck, shoulder or back pain is crucial, and rotating is the key to that. Oh by the way. When I get into bed, there is my base pillow with two additional pillows stacked on it. The one I dont choose to stack on my base pillow on any given night, becomes a pseudo body pillow. Body pillows are a great way to keep you body from rotating too much when sleeping in the side position.

Hope this helps and makes a little bit of sense.

Maverick

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Thanks all! I’m curious about what the cube pillow is. Are there any photos floating around? I understand it’s made from latex cubes - how big are they, and roughly how many make up a pillow? How does one arrange them?

I’m primarily a side sleeper (60%) though I sometimes sleep on my stomach (20%) or back (20%). Currently I have a solid latex pillow from SleepOnLatex that’s my primary pillow. I also have a shredded latex pillow. I can’t remember the brand, but it’s large and unfortunately doesn’t have a zipper to remove filling.

I’m looking for another pillow to add to my rotation to help with snoring. I find most pillows don’t support my neck enough, so I’ve been tempted to try the Oxygen pillow and/or a latex cervical pillow. I’m also curious about the cube pillow.

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