Alternatives to Tempur-Pedic Flex Supreme?

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

I’m new to this forum, and just got done reading through the mattress shopping tutorial, and some of the other forum questions relating to Tempur-Pedic mattresses. This site is a treasure trove of great information, so thank you so much for providing it!

My wife and I are shopping for a king size mattress and agree that it feels like a very expensive and important “blind” purchase. Prior to finding this site, we had visited a Mattress Firm store to figure out what kind of mattress we liked best. They of course directed us to the most expensive mattresses, and we found that we really like the Tempur-Pedic Flex Supreme. We did not like the price. Are there similar mattresses at a better value (and more transparent specs) that we might consider? (Our price range “mid point” would ideally be around $2k)

We liked how the Supreme was not overly firm or soft, and we liked the slow-sinking foam feel (though we’ve never had any sort of memory foam previously) much better than the other memory foam mattresses we tried.

We’ve noticed that Costco has better prices on name-brand mattresses than the big box stores, but were intrigued by your recommendation to shop the smaller shops - do you know of any near my zip code 84095?

Thanks again for all your information and assistance!
-Brad

2

Hi bmorgan,

As you can see in the guidelines here … I would tend to avoid the major chain stores completely because with their lack of transparency the time you spend there will be mostly wasted because for the most part you won’t be able to find out the information you need to make an informed choice or make meaningful comparisons between mattresses (see this article).

There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “match” another one in post #9 here.

While there would be many hundreds of mattresses in the industry that use materials and components that would be just as or more durable than the materials and components in the Tempurpedic … because they don’t disclose the specifics of the materials and components in their mattresses you won’t be able to make any meaningful comparisons based on comparing specs.

In terms of comfort and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) … unless a manufacturer makes a mattress that is designed to closely approximate another mattress and it says so in their description (and I don’t know of any other manufacturers that make a mattress that is specifically designed to approximate the Tempurpedic Flex Supreme) … the only way to know how two mattresses compare to each other would be based on your own personal testing or experience.

I would avoid the “name brand” mattresses completely because they tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their comfort layers that can soften and break down prematurely and would be a weak link in the mattress.

The better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around Salt Lake City (subject to the quality/value guidelines here) are listed in post #2 here.

Phoenix

3

It’s funny you mention the Flex Supreme as I was in a store last weekend and found that and the Weightless Supreme to be the best Tempurpedic’s I’ve ever layed on. (They told me the Flex Supreme replaced the Weightless with the only major difference being changing the base from foam to pocketed springs, I couldn’t really tell the difference myself)

I spent the weekend trying to find something similar and I found the new bed from 4sleep. Their website sadly doesn’t go into much specifics but I did find that it has 1.5" of gel memory foam on top of two layers of latex or latex like foam which is similar to the Tempurpedic. I’m trying to get more information from them on density and materials used as their site is sorely lacking but given the money back guarantee it might be worth a shot assuming the materials are good.

I’ll add more if I can get more information on the materials used.

4

Hi zexpress,

I think that many people would notice the difference between an innerspring support core and a polyfoam support core although it’s true that the upper layers contribute more to the feel of a mattress than the deeper layers and both of these would have a more resilient feel than their other mattresses.

With the very limited description on their website it would be impossible to know whether their mattress approximates any of the Tempur-Flex mattresses but more importantly it isn’t possible to make any meaningful comments about the quality and durability of the materials inside it.

There are a number of other options for some of the “simplified choice” mattresses in post #3 here that are completely transparent about their materials so you can make some meaningful assessments about the quality and durability of the materials and the mattress as a whole.

There is always a significant risk involved in buying any mattress where you don’t know the quality and durability of the materials inside it and can’t identify any “weak links” in the mattress (see the foam quality/density guidelines here) because once the trial period is over there would be no recourse if the materials start to soften or break down prematurely and you lose the comfort and support that was the reason you purchased the mattress in the first place because warranties only cover specified defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or in some cases more rapid) loss of comfort and support that is the main reason that a mattress will need to be replaced (see post #174 here).

I would avoid any mattress where you don’t know the type, quality/density, and durability of the materials inside it.

Phoenix

5

I emailed the 4sleep people and they responded within 30 minutes! Here are the details:
[color=#0000bb]We make the mattress with four layers specially designed to provide the proper support without experiencing pain from pressure points. It’s a tricky science to figure out the right combination and there is a lot of misinformation out there about IFD’s and densities and how those translate into softness or firmness.

Our four layers are:
1.5" of 3.5lb density ThermaSense Memory foam with an IFD of 10. This is a very special type of gel foam that differs from the normal gel memory foams in that it not only absorbs heat from your body but also can liberate heat back to the spots where you need it. The goal is to maintain the optimal temperature for restful, deep sleep and our ThermaSense foam can do that. We don’t use an overly dense foam so that you will achieve that floating sense that is so unique to memory foam: float but no sink.

The second layer and third layers are made up of a special foam that provides an alternative bridge between latex & visco memory foam: you get the comfort & conforming properites of visco but it is extremely compression resistant so you do not sink, you have better support as you “float” on top of the layers. This foam also has superior air flow for great heat dissipation to aide in cooler night sleep, i.e. it continues to pull air through from the top layers. The second layer is 3.0lb density with a 10 IFD, the third layer is 3.0 lb 18 IFD.

The core layer has a 35 IFD, the side rails are 50 IFD.

While we are happy to provide the technical specs on our mattress, they do not alone tell the whole story. The unique and specially formulated cell stuctures, composition and properties of each layer very much affect the overall “feel.” The order in which the layers are assembled is a science in and of itself. If you have to go with a standard firmess scale we’d rate ourselves about a 6.5 to 7 out of 10, with 10 being the firmest. But because of our ThermaSense top layer, you’ll get that plush feel without losing any support. And because of the two middle layers, you’ll never feel like you’re sinking in quicksand, can’t move in your bed, or that your sleeping partner is bouncing you around all night. However, you’ll get plenty of localized bounce to support your own movements when and where you need it. J

We spent many years compiling information from our customers and competitors mattresses to determine what makes a truly great mattress. We feel we’ve accomplished that with a caveat: we’re always open to change as the needs of our customers change. That’s why we feel the trial periods our important, not just for the customer but also for us to learn how people truly adjust to the foam and what makes them the most comfortable.

Of course we offer a full 20 year warranty, our foam is 100% USA Made and CertiPur-US certified. We use plant-based derivatives in our foam so that it is naturally antimicrobial, hypoallergenic, dust mite and mold resistant. Contrary to what some competitors are saying about layers in a mattress being bad for air flow, we use water based glues applied in a way that minimizes blocking of air flow through the entire mattress and allows each layer to enhance the overall support, durability and comfort of the 4Sleep mattress.[/color]

6

Hi bmorgan,

Thanks for taking the time to share the information that they sent you … I appreciate it :slight_smile:

It’s good to see that they are transparent about their materials and the only information that is missing is the thickness of the second and third layers and the thickness and density of the polyfoam base layer.

While the density of the top 1.5" gel memory foam layer is a little lower than I would normally suggest (see the guidelines here) … it’s also only 1.5" thick so it’s in the range of “about an inch or so” of lower quality/density materials so it’s not thick enough to make a significant difference in the durability or useful life of the mattress.

The second and third layers are a high performance polyfoam that are high quality materials and wouldn’t be a weak link in the mattress (see post #3 here).

I completely agree with their comments here. While the quality/density specs of a mattress are the most important factor in the durability and useful life of a mattress … they will tell you very little about how a mattress will feel. You are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components would be the best “match” for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

There are also no “standardized” definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that is firm for one can feel like “medium” for someone else or even “soft” for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they “rate” a mattress as well (see post #15 here).

Once you have the missing pieces of information (the thickness of the two high performance polyfoam layers and the thickness and density of the base layer) then you will be in a better position to compare their mattress to some of the other “simplified choice” or “one choice fits all” mattresses that are discussed in post #3 here.

Phoenix

7

You got a much more detailed response than I did! I only was able to get the density of the top layer which was 3.5lbs and that the next two layers were latex like but with better pressure relief properties, and that the base layer was 2.8lbs (seemed crazy high compared to most other mattresses in the segment which made me wonder if it was a typo and they meant 1.8lbs). Also to add the second layer is 1" and the third layer is 1.5". They also said they planned to update their FAQ page by the end of the week with the full specs for those who wanted it.

Nice to know they are being transparent. It definitely looks like an interesting mattress and is probably high on my list for when I make a decision this month on my next one… Sorry for not posting this earlier, this week kinda got away from me.

8

Hi zexpress,

The information they provided you seems to have filled in at least some of the missing gaps including the thickness of the middle two layers.

The 2.8 lb density they gave you certainly wouldn’t be the density of the base layer.

So far the specs look like this with only a few blanks left to confirm or fill in (ADDED: they just provided me with the missing information on their chat) …

1.5" 3.5 lb gel memory foam: A little on the low density side but also a thinner layer so it should be OK for most weight ranges.
1" 3 lb high performance polyfoam: This is a good quality material
1.5" 3 lb high performance polyfoam: Same comments as above
7" 1.8 lb polyfoam

For most people that aren’t in higher weight ranges these would be suitable specs and there wouldn’t be any weak links in the mattress but I would be a little cautious with higher weight ranges (mid 200’s or higher)…

Their price is also a little higher than some of the other “simplified choice” or “one mattress fits all” choices in post #3 here.

I would also be very cautious about purchasing a mattress from an unknown and very new internet source without more information about who is behind it and the only information they provide is “my husband and I”.

Phoenix

9

I asked 4Sleep how they compare to Tuft and Needle, and they gave me this response:

[color=#004400]T&N makes a good mattress for what it is, it is NOT memory foam hence the lower price. It is designed to feel very firm but it does not have the same “body contouring” abilities of memory foam nor the same advanced technology level of heat and cooling absorption (they claim memory foam sleeps hot, that’s simply not true anymore with the high tech foams, quite frankly I’m surprised they would make that claim.) We’ve added a lot of additional features like our cover with Cooling On Demand technology and our side edge rails for support. Our top comfort layer of gel memory foam is very unique as well, our mattress gives you the feel of the Tempur-pedic Cloud but with a lot more resilient support underneath the top layer.

The T& N mattress would be analogous to taking just a middle and the bottom layer of the 4Sleep mattress. It has very basic characteristics and will feel comfortable to a wide range of consumers. Because they’re not using the same level of foams they can keep the price down. There’s nothing bad about the mattress, it’s just doesn’t bring the same level of sophistication to the construction and overall sleep experience. It’s really not an apples to apples comparison because they are really in different categories when it comes to design[/color].

10

Hi bmorgan,

There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

What it will really come down to is …

  1. Suitability which is all about comfort and how well you will sleep on a mattress regardless of the materials themselves. The only way to know this with any certainty will be based on your own testing and personal experience when you sleep on the mattress. Everything else is just marketing because each person is unique in their own specific needs and preferences.

  2. Durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on the mattress before you need to replace it. The only way to know this is based on the quality/density and durability of the materials inside it.

  3. “Value” which is all about how a mattress compares to other mattresses you are considering based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price and the return policy of course as well as all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of a mattress purchase)

With the density of the top layer of memory foam they would have a slight disadvantage in terms of durability although not to the point that I would call it a “weak link” in the mattress.

There is also more about gel memory foams in post #2 here and while most people wouldn’t have a temperature regulation issue with gel memory foams … the odds are higher that a minority of people will sleep warmer compared to other types of foam materials.

Again … one of the bigger issues I would have with 4sleep is not knowing anything about the company itself and who I was dealing with when the company is very new.

Phoenix

11

Website is registered to a public mailbox at a UPS Store in Scottsdale, AZ. Other information is private. Domains by Proxy.

12

[quote=“MattressToGo” post=53268][quote=“Phoenix” post=53264]Again … one of the bigger issues I would have with 4sleep is not knowing anything about the company itself and who I was dealing with when the company is very new.

Phoenix[/quote]

Website is registered to a public mailbox at a UPS Store in Scottsdale, AZ. Other information is private. Domains by Proxy.[/quote]

That just means they use GoDaddy as the company their domain is registered with. The same as Leesa, YogaBed and this site for that matter.

I do agree it would be nice if they gave a bit more corporate information on their site. That along with detailed specs about their mattress are significantly more lacking than the sites of Casper, Leesa and YogaBed.

13

Hi zexpress,

Casper and Leesa and Tuft & Needle and Brooklyn Bedding all provide information about the people behind them and even though it’s not on their site … Yogabed does as well (see here and here).

Phoenix

14

Just an FYI. I posted a comment on 4Sleeps’s Facebook asking if they could make talk a bit more about who the company was and they deleted it along with another similar type question. I apologize for even bringing this company up in the first place as something now definitely seems off with them. It’s a shame though that more companies don’t make this style of mattress with a very thin memory foam layer on top of latex or latex like materials.

15

The 4Sleep folks told me they were planning to update this info on their website and discuss with Phoenix. They asked me to give them a couple days…

16

Yeah, they told me that on Monday as well and there have been no changes. Deleting my Facebook post though was enough to make me decide to move on. I think I am probably going to bite the bullet and order the #BestMattressEver this weekend in the soft model. Mario at Brooklyn Bedding has told me that he believes at my light weight the soft model will be fine for me support wise. My hope is that 2" of soft talalay latex on top of the 2" of medium dunlop latex will be able to give me a somewhat similar feel to what I liked about the Weightless Tempurpedics. I figure with 120 day risk free guarantee from a very well respected company I have nothing to lose.

17

Hi zexpress,

Just to add some further information that was sent to me by one of the members that was doing some research into their site … you can see on this page of their site that 4Sleep is a DBA for Specialized Foam Products, LLC aka Purasleep.

They have also sent me an email inviting me to talk with them over the course of the next few days so I will add any additional information about them as a result of our conversation when I’ve had the chance to talk with them.

As you know the #BestMattressEver is a great quality/value choice and assuming that you decide to pull the trigger … congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve had the chance to try it out.

Phoenix

18

You’d think being part of a known, established company would be something they would make a major part of their brand as opposed to making themselves seem like some married couple decided to make a mattress out of their house. Especially given how many true upstarts are out there now making these mattresses why go for deception when the truth is probably a better selling point in a crowded field.

Either way I am very excited about ordering from Brooklyn Bedding this weekend and I will definitely report back! :slight_smile:

19

Hi zexpress,

Just to update this topic and discussion … I had the chance to talk with Lori at 4sleep both yesterday and today. She was certainly knowledgeable, open, and transparent about themselves and their new mattress and I enjoyed our conversation. Their mattress uses good quality materials and outside of those that are in higher weight ranges (more than the low 200’s or so) there are no obvious weak links in their mattress so based on our conversation I’ve also added them to the list of “simplified choice” mattresses in post #3 here where you can see some of my comments about our conversation and their background as well.

Phoenix

20

Phoenix, what makes you comfortable now about the company history and long-term viability of the warranty?