Latex Mattress in Canada

[phoenix]

Hi Christopfff.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum!

Post #1 here outlines options for getting assistance. You can start a new topic any time in our expert members forums. Additionally, you can also append (as you did) your comment/question to an existing topic that closely matches your topic of interest.

Phoenix

[MFC]

Hi John667,

Thanks… Still looking. I wish I were able to test one of your beds. Would be great if you got a store in Quebec some day.

Did you know that you do not have to try a Dormio mattress to know how it feels? The major advantage of shopping for an organic dunlop latex mattresses is that you can find a local store that sells organic dunlop latex, try it there and then compare with what other manufacturers are selling online.

Let’s take your case for example. If you live in Quebec, you can go to any Matelas Bonheur location, and try the Grensleep mattresses. They are made of GOLS certified organic dunlop latex and are covered with organic cotton and wool. Try the different models they offer and find the one you like. At that points it’s quite simple to ask the salesman how the mattress is made. He will tell you the thicknesses of each individual layer inside the mattress and their ILD number (firmness).

With this information in hand, you can go online and do some comparative shopping. You may decide to buy the mattress you tried in the store, or one that you’ve found online that’s made using the same components. If you can’t find what you’re looking for, most manufacturers will be happy to put a mattress together according to your specification. In the end, both the mattress you tried in store and the one you bought online will feel quite similar, since they are both made with the same components.

Hope this helps!

[John667]

Thanks, that’s a great idea! I wonder if they have those beds in every store, but I’ll check.

[Dormio_Organic_Beds]

Hi John667,

We hope to expand one day!
As mentioned by MFC Memory Foam Comfort (by the way great idea), once you get a feel for latex in general, the online plunge is not as scary. Which ever you decide, you will not be disappointed.
Keep us posted on your journey.

Best of luck!

[John667]

I went to Matelas Bonheur and did try Greensleep mattresses and they felt wonderful. I really liked those two (from top to bottom) :

A)

S 2"
M 3"
M 3"

and

B)

S 2"
S 2"
M 3"
F 3"

Very expensive, but it looks like quality. Not sure which one I prefer, as I lay down a lot on the bed to read or use computer, so I like some firmness, but I also sleep on the side so it must be soft. I like the idea that the second one has a firm layer, but it’s much more expensive.

The seller made some affirmations that I’d like to verify.

He said that latex mattresses only lose about 1% support per year, so even after 15 years you only lose 15%. He says he has have a Greensleep for 12 years and it’s going strong and that such mattresses can last easily 15-20 years without any problem. I really have trouble believing this, as you don’t flip the mattress and 20 years on the same spot seems like a lot. He said that in Europe people don’t buy as many mattresses as here and sometimes the mattresses come with the house and can last 20 years without any problem. Do you believe this? If I buy a latex mattress, will it really last 20 years? Seems hard to believe!

He also told me to beware of other latex mattresses as sometimes they aren’t “pure” latex. He told me Greensleep is 97% pure latex (the remaining 3% if to deal with the fact that latex coagulated on the trip from Malaysia to North America) but sometimes there are companies that advertise latex and it’s not that pure and with lot of cheaper chemicals involved. True or false?

Greensheep is Dunlop and not Talaylay… What difference does it make at this point? He wasn’t able to tell.

Last thing… The King Size was about $3800 and the split king was like 5500$. The guy told me he simply cut his layers in half and bought independant double XL covers and made his own split king. I wonder if I’d have the balls to do this but it looks like a good way to save some money.

[MFC]

Hi John667,

I’m happy you went to try out an organic dunlop latex mattress!

He said that latex mattresses only lose about 1% support per year, so even after 15 years you only lose 15%. He says he has have a Greensleep for 12 years and it’s going strong and that such mattresses can last easily 15-20 years without any problem. I really have trouble believing this, as you don’t flip the mattress and 20 years on the same spot seems like a lot. He said that in Europe people don’t buy as many mattresses as here and sometimes the mattresses come with the house and can last 20 years without any problem. Do you believe this? If I buy a latex mattress, will it really last 20 years? Seems hard to believe!

Yes, you can easily get 20 years + out of a dunlop latex mattress. That’s why most manufacturers feel confident enough to give you a 25 year warranty. Here is a video of a 50 year old dunlop latex mattress and as you can see on the video it’s still in good condition.

He also told me to beware of other latex mattresses as sometimes they aren’t “pure” latex. He told me Greensleep is 97% pure latex (the remaining 3% if to deal with the fact that latex coagulated on the trip from Malaysia to North America) but sometimes there are companies that advertise latex and it’s not that pure and with lot of cheaper chemicals involved. True or false?

The whole story about “natural latex” is quite confusing, but it mostly applies to Talalay latex more here on the subject. In our experience all the organic dunlop latex is at least 95% rubber and the other ingredients include:
1-Organic Latex Rubber 90-95%
2-Zinc Oxide 2-3%
3-Fatty Acid Soaps 1-2%
4-Sulfur 1-2%
5-Sodium 1-2%

Greensheep is Dunlop and not Talaylay… What difference does it make at this point? He wasn’t able to tell.

Please see this article on the pro’s and con’s of dunlop and talalay latex

[quote]
Last thing… The King Size was about $3800 and the split king was like 5500$. The guy told me he simply cut his layers in half and bought independant double XL covers and made his own split king. I wonder if I’d have the balls to do this but it looks like a good way to save some money.
[/quote] Yes, you could simply cut the layers yourself. The organic cotton sleeves are an option and not necessary in our opinion, as the latex is already well covered my the actual wool quilted organic cotton cover and do not to be covered a second time.
We can easily make you a KING split with a brass top zip wool quilted organic cotton cover with these specs
S 2"
S 2"
M 3"
F 4"
For 2995$ taxes and delivery included. This is our Presto mattress, and the latex layers are loose (like the greensleep) so that you can fine tune your comfort and support options.

Did I answer all your question?
Please let me know if you need any further information.
All the Best!

Mario

[John667]

Thanks Mario. This video of a 50 year old latex mattress is something to watch, indeed, but what about loss of support over the years? Wouldn’t sleeping at the exact same spot night after night (and it’s worse for a side sleeper because of the pressure points) would make it too soft without good enough support even if the mattress is still looking not that bad? How much % of support would such a mattress lose after, let’s say, 10 to 15 years?

Yeah I think the cotton is not necessary, but from what the guy told me it helps because there shouldn’t be too much humidity on latex.

BTW, do you offer some warranty or something? Do you have a physical address? Price looks better than GreenSleep at Matelas Bonheur, but what if something goes wrong with the wool cover in 5 years. Would I be able to buy such a cover anywhere else?

BTW, do you know the ILD difference between your Presto and GreenSleep mattress?

P.S. Do you think 2 X 2" soft layers on top could be a bit too plush if I want the mattress to last and if I need good support (even as a side sleeper)? I also need pressure relief, but I wonder if 4" of soft material wouldn’t be too much and create some problems for the back (sleeping like a banana). How to choose the right ILD? Would it be possible, for example with your Presto, to use (from top to bottom): 2" S, 2" M, 2" M and 4" F, with only one layer of soft and two mediums or is it mandatory to get 2 soft layers and only one medium? I know it’s easier to deal with a mattress that is a bit too firm than one that is a bit too soft… I’d like to find a way to know what the correct mix would be for me as I know just laying in the showroom isn’t that great a solution.

[MFC]

Hi John667,

Thanks Mario. This video of a 50 year old latex mattress is something to watch, indeed, but what about loss of support over the years? Wouldn’t sleeping at the exact same spot night after night (and it’s worse for a side sleeper because of the pressure points) would make it too soft without good enough support even if the mattress is still looking not that bad? How much % of support would such a mattress lose after, let’s say, 10 to 15 years?

Yes, the dunlop latex will loose some support over the years, but you will still get over 20 years of use out of it. The advantage of our Presto customizable mattress is that each individual loose latex layer can be rotated and flipped, therefor increasing the support longevity of the mattress.

Yeah I think the cotton is not necessary, but from what the guy told me it helps because there shouldn’t be too much humidity on latex.

Did you notice that when they opened the 50 year old mattress it did not have a separate cotton lining encasing the latex core under the cover yet it still was in good condition and we can only imagine what that mattress has been through…Plus most organic dunlop latex mattresses are covered with cotton and wool, that does an amazing job at regulating humidity in the mattress. We suggest getting a quality mattress protector to cover the wool quilted organic cotton cover, and that will provide all the protection your mattress requires.

BTW, do you offer some warranty or something? Do you have a physical address? Price looks better than GreenSleep at Matelas Bonheur, but what if something goes wrong with the wool cover in 5 years. Would I be able to buy such a cover anywhere else?

Yes, our product is covered by a 25 year warranty from “Nature’s Embrace”. Our physical address can be found here There’s not much that can go wrong with the cover, but if ever you do get a mishap, its easy to buy a new cover from us, Nature’s Embrace or any other manufacturer of organic latex beds.

BTW, do you know the ILD difference between your Presto and GreenSleep mattress?

Ours is listed below but It should be the same as Greensleep
S 2" 20 ILD
S 2" 20 ILD
M 3" 30 ILD
F 4" 40 ILD

Do you think 2 X 2" soft layers on top could be a bit too plush if I want the mattress to last and if I need good support (even as a side sleeper)? I also need pressure relief, but I wonder if 4" of soft material wouldn’t be too much and create some problems for the back (sleeping like a banana). How to choose the right ILD? Would it be possible, for example with your Presto, to use (from top to bottom): 2" S, 2" M, 2" M and 4" F, with only one layer of soft and two mediums or is it mandatory to get 2 soft layers and only one medium? I know it’s easier to deal with a mattress that is a bit too firm than one that is a bit too soft… I’d like to find a way to know what the correct mix would be for me as I know just laying in the showroom isn’t that great a solution.

We’ve experimented with our Presto bed for 2 years, and the way it’s set up now with the 4" firm core, 2" medium and 2 x 2" soft is the most popular with our customers. You can always firm it up the bed by simply placing a softer layer under the firm core. The closer you place the core to your body, the firmer the feel. If you want to see how this is actually done, please scroll down this page and look at the 3 animated gif’s that show how it’s done.

Did I answer all your question?
Please let me know if you need any further information.
All the Best!

Mario

[John667]

Hi Mario, two more questions:

First one.

I asked GreenSleep for their mattress ILDs and here is their reply:

The only way to measure pure natural rubber is this way, it goes per firmness.

Soft Greensleep natural rubber is 65kg/m3
our medium is 70kg/m3
our firm is 85kg/m3

If you are quoted a different way to measure natural rubber, it isn’t pure and has been blended.

From what I now undestand, after somehttp://www.ergoflex-usa.com/ergoflex/377/What+does+the+ILD+rating+of+a+memory+foam+mattress+mean%3F research, it’s that ILD only apply to foam:

ILD stands for Indentation Load Deflection. In simple terms it is a measurement of how hard or soft a foam is. In more accurate terms it’s the number of pounds of pressure required to indent 4" of foam by 25% using a 50 square inch indentation. You may also see it referred to as the 25% ILD rating.

So how do you calculate the ILD of your layers and wouldn’t that mean that you don’t have pure latex but blended?

Second question:

I don’t understand how it would make sense to put a softer layer below a firm one. Does it mean if I buy the Presto I can’t have two medium layers and would absolutely have the two soft one? Wouldn’t it make sense to make it more customizable? I mean: it’s not a one size fits all from what I understand… Some people need more softness and others more firmness…

[MFC]

Hi John667,

The Presto was designed by MFC and is made exclusively by Nature’s Embrace.

Here are the details of their organic Dunlop latex firmness options:
SOFT = 20 ILD approx. 65 kg/m3
MEDIUM = 30 ILD approx. 75 kg/m3
FIRM = 40 ILD approx. 85 kg/m3

At the factory level they use both ILD and density to formulate the firmness. This is explained in detail by Nature’s Embrace in this article on The Science of Sleep

I don’t understand how it would make sense to put a softer layer below a firm one. Does it mean if I buy the Presto I can’t have two medium layers and would absolutely have the two soft one? Wouldn’t it make sense to make it more customizable? I mean: it’s not a one size fits all from what I understand… Some people need more softness and others more firmness…

By placing a softer layer below a firm one you are creating a new sleep surface. Some sleepers enjoy a firmer sleep surface with a little less support, which creates a softer pocket under the hips and shoulders and therefor reduces pressure points with a firmer sleep surface.
Yes, you can choose to have 2 x medium layers if you want, however in our experience, it’s better to have 2 x soft layers as this gives you more soft options. If ever you need to firm up the mattress, you simply move up the 4" firm core by placing the softer layers under it, and only use a 2" layer of soft or medium over the firm core.

So yes, the Presto offers 9 comfort and support options all in the same mattress. Please see the animated gif’s on this page that show you how to adjust the Organic dunlop customizable mattress from soft / medium / firm.

The advantage of a customizable mattress is that if ever you need to soften up the mattress even more, you can buy soft layers at cost for up to 1 year after your purchase. You can’t do this with a standard mattress.

So how do you calculate the ILD of your layers and wouldn’t that mean that you don’t have pure latex but blended?

The way we quote firmness has nothing to do with the fact that we only use pure organic latex. The reason is simple, our latex is GOLS certified:

The only way to guarantee a latex rubber is free of additives is through GOLS (Global Organic Latex Standard) certification.

Under the GOLS content standard all latex rubber must:
1- Contain at least 95% organic latex content
2- Not contain any synthetic latex

In addition to the purity and performance standards GOLS standards also includes many other important health and social guidelines.

Some of the other important parameters included in the certification include:

VOC and harmful substance testing
forest stewardship practises
waste and pollution management
water management regulations
renewable energy requirements
living wage guidelines for workers
child labour is prohibited
When taken in totality, no other certification ensures you’re getting the full health and performance benefits that latex offers while protecting the health of our planet, workers and you.

Hope this helps you find the mattress that’s right for you!

all the best

[John667]

Thanks for the explanation as for ILD vs. kg/m.3

I really enjoyed the Greensleep mattress with only 2" soft on two layers of medium. I’m not sure if I understand correctly, but would it be possible to buy your Presto with 2 medium layers and only one soft layer? Would the price be the same?

It’s really difficult to buy on the net without trying. 2 X 2" soft can be too soft and 1 X 2" soft on 2 mediums might be too hard. I don’t know. However it seems to me that it’s easier to get more softness than to make a mattress harder.

[MFC]

Hi John667,

I really enjoyed the Greensleep mattress with only 2" soft on two layers of medium. I’m not sure if I understand correctly, but would it be possible to buy your Presto with 2 medium layers and only one soft layer? Would the price be the same?

Yes, we can make the Presto any way you like. If you want to get 2 medium layers the price would be the same. We can even make a replica of the one you liked from Greensleep.

It’s really difficult to buy on the net without trying. 2 X 2" soft can be too soft and 1 X 2" soft on 2 mediums might be too hard. I don’t know. However it seems to me that it’s easier to get more softness than to make a mattress harder.

It’s actually more difficult to make it softer, since you need to buy another soft layer, if the ones provided are not soft enough. To firm up the mattress all you need to do is move up the core.

All the best

[John667]

It’s actually more difficult to make it softer, since you need to buy another soft layer, if the ones provided are not soft enough. To firm up the mattress all you need to do is move up the core.

This is the part that I don’t understand. So far I used to believe that there is two important things : pressure relief and support and that you need softer layers up and firmer down. What would be the difference having the firm on top of soft vs. having only the firm one? I don’t see the point of putting the firm layer on top of soft layer. I’m sure there is a logical explanation but I don’t get it… yet.

[MFC]

Hi John667,

What I’m trying to explain is that it’s easier to firm up the Presto mattress than to make it softer. We send out the mattress with 2 x 2" layers of soft latex that are placed on top, placed over a 2" medium and 4" firm core. This is the softest arrangement with the current configuration of the loose latex layers. If for some reason you find that the mattress is not soft enough, you’ll need to purchase another 2" soft layer and replace the 2" medium layer, which will give you 6" of soft latex as a comfort layer. This scenario is quite extreme, and in the 3 years since we have sold the Presto organic only 2 customers have done this. Most people like a bit more support and are happy with the current configuration of the mattress.

Firm it up
However if you want to firm it up, you have 9 comfort and support options that you can choose by simply rearranging the layers and moving up the core as explained in a previous post. You could actually sleep on the 4" firm core if you wanted too, but for most that would be too hard. That’s why I say that it’s easier to firm it up than to make it softer.

Make sense?

[John667]

Yes, thanks, it makes sense to sleep on a firmer layer if I want a firmer mattress, but I just don’t understand (yet) what’s the difference between sleeping, let’s say, on a 4" firm layer alone vs. on a 4" firm layer on softer layers. I don’t see anyway softer layers below firm layers, but I’m a newbie so there must be a reason.

Anyway if I buy two medium layers that would solve the problem.

I think I still need to test or think about what is best for my needs. 2 soft layers and I fear my body wouldn’t be aligned enough (too soft) and 1 soft layer and maybe I wouldn’t have enough support. I know there is a study somewhere that says that trying isn’t better than pure science, but I’m not sure what to do.

[MFC]

Hi John667,

what’s the difference between sleeping, let’s say, on a 4" firm layer alone vs. on a 4" firm layer on softer layers.

There’s no difference, because the 4" firm core is predominant and will not be affected by a soft 2" layer underneath. However a 2" medium layer placed over a 2" soft layer will have a different feel, and may just right for certain sleepers.

Good luck in your search!

All the best
Mario

[John667]

Thanks

[Brewer]

Hi Mario,

I recently bought a 8" Maoli from you, received and setup with 3 nights in so far! First time for latex and the quality and support, both incredible, at an incredible price. Thank you!

A couple questions…

Support really is most incredible but I feel like I want the top to be a little more plush (so far, again only 3 days in) so I’ve been thinking about a soft 2" topper, Talalay perhaps? Or what do you think a 2" soft Dunlop would do for me? (knowing there’s already a 2" soft on the 6" firm core) I sleep all of the ways, more side and back I suppose.

I had a 3" Costco memory foam topper on my last very firm coil spring mattress. It was very plush, a bit more than wanted or needed and a bit too cradling but I slept on it for 6 years that way, it was fine but not supportive enough. I like the looks of your 2" 5 lb memory foam topper but I’d really prefer to stay away from the chemicals and all that at this point which is a lot of what led me to the natural latex in the beginning down the rabbit hole of study about 9 months ago.

I also feel like I should protect the mattress with a protector/cover/pad of some sort. The waterproof option seems like a really good idea, but is it really? I want reasonable price and quality but don’t want to effect mattress performance. I’m not worried about wetting the bed really (haha) but you never know what sort of accidents can happen.

I’ve been reading and studying up on toppers and protectors and am still confused. Maybe a pad that is the topper and protector in one?

Lost in Halifax, help!

[MFC]

Hi Brewer,

Support really is most incredible but I feel like I want the top to be a little more plush (so far, again only 3 days in) so I’ve been thinking about a soft 2" topper, Talalay perhaps? Or what do you think a 2" soft Dunlop would do for me? (knowing there’s already a 2" soft on the 6" firm core) I sleep all of the ways, more side and back I suppose.

Personally I would wait a few months before adding anything on the mattress. Our bodies take time to adjust to a new mattress, and since organic dunlop is one of the most supportive sleep surfaces, we need time to adjust to it. Later if you feel the need, I suggest getting 2" organic dunlop latex topper to help relieve pressure points. Talalay is also great, but make sure you get 100% natural (vita Talalay) if you want to keep sleeping on a all natural mattress. MFC who is an expert and site Member here has a collection of Toppers and the organic dunlop latex toppers are discounted for TMU consumer members.

I also feel like I should protect the mattress with a protector/cover/pad of some sort. The waterproof option seems like a really good idea, but is it really? I want reasonable price and quality but don’t want to effect mattress performance. I’m not worried about wetting the bed really (haha) but you never know what sort of accidents can happen.

We suggest the Merino Wool Mattress Protector It’s our best seller because it protects the mattress (ok for small spills) it regulates body temperature and humidity, and is machine washable.

Did I answer all your question?
Please let me know if you need any further information.

All the Best!
Mario

[Brewer]

Thank you for the advice and sharing of knowledge. I will certainly give it longer before grabbing a topper but will jump on a protector straight away. 6 nights deep - amazing mattress, feel the quality and support each night and morning. A world of difference from any other type of mattress I’ve used.

cheers