New here and would love some feedback

wish i found this site sooner…My husband has been a waterbed owner, and loves it, for 21 yrs… i have had to sleep on it for 15yrs… I couldnt take it much more and he saw that and decided to sell it and find a bed we both like…waterbed was 90% waveless, but my hips and back killed me… He misses it …sold it and in mean time went to mattress factory store near where we live…springfield, PA 19018…tons of mattresses and all top brand names…then we went to sleep number store he wanted to try out sleep number bed…He has a thing about beds with coils/springs…I tell him they dont make beds like they did 25yrs ago…so needless to say he liked sleep number bed…queen with dual chambers the i10 series…top of the line and price to go with it…after 2wks, even after the 1st week we didnt like it…even thru the foam etc still feel the firmness setting of canvas air bed, to some degree…decided to return it, but have to keep for 30 nites then return it…they say it takes some time for folks to adjust to sleeping better on these beds, tempurpedic beds too, muscles arent use to the real natural way of supporting your back, hips and shoulders…

in the meantime we went to sleepys and cking out the tempurpedic beds…I love the cloud line, supreme and luxe seem so soft in the store and pillowy…He liked the new weightless supreme, a bit firmer with more bounce…we decided to give that a try, id rather the softer cloud line…before leaving the store we saw this my side bed…layed on the trial bed and then came up with me in the blue, softer and husband in red, firmer…but read some things here stating do not buy those beds, they are not worth the 3600 bucs and made cheap, even though a lifetime warranty…

well after sleeping on this queen tempurpedic weightless supreme, i was so uncomfortable, hip pain and backache its ridiculous…husband said the sleep number felt worse, but i actually felt opposite…at least sleep number wasnt that firm…granted we know the tempur beds in 65 degrees or less get a bit firmer, but once you lay on it and move around the cells open it and itll conform to you and body temp…

i suggested we get 2 twin beds on a king frame, he can get a waterbed again, softside, which looks like a reg mattress, and i can find what i like…he doesnt seem to grasp that idea that we can both be happy , or its strange …a mattress is a big decision to make and hard one at that…

consumer reports say to lay on it just like at home for 15 min or so…and your 1st nite sleeping on it you will know if its right for you same as in the store…

sleepys policy allows you to return completely and get money back, or exchange for ANY BED, lower or higher priced. and its within a 21 day time frame…and can do that til you find bed for you…we are financing this tempur bed…

I dont know, i dont like having to give the bed time with trial nites, that these 2 companies offer you…it takes time for you to adjust to it…well, tell my hips and back that…

Seems the beds in the stores feel different then new one you get delivered…one in store didnt feel as firm as this one, and i cked to make sure it was right mattress, it is…

does anyone here at all, have any suggestions or recommendations to help guide me/us??

im 175 5’6 with needing hip and back relief…husband is 6ft about 200 lbs and as i said slept on a waterbed that wasnt real wavy for 21 yrs…he feels like he likes a bed in the store, then sleeps on it here and doesnt like it, (sleep number bed) this tempur weightless supreme he felt feels better then sleep number, but its still firmer then one we tried in store…any help here???

thanks so much

If you have not already done so, take the time to read Phoenix’s ‘manual’ on mattresses and his 5 steps to a perfect mattress.

IMHO, you nned to invest the time to educate yourself, and then you need to take the time to develop the personal experiece to allow you to make an informed choice. The ‘manual’ can be found by clicking on the “Mattresses” tab in the grey bar on the upper part of the home page.

Happy hunting. Don’t quit early by trying to make a premature decision. Work the 5-step process. Only you can make the decisions, and you can only make good decisions if you have informed yourself first.

thanks…i just read all the topics in the overviews…very interesting and very informative…im visualizing a bed as i read thru it all…at this point in time, i have a sleep number bed that is in a spare room waiting for techs to come get it in early OCTOBER, and a new tempurpedic bed we got yesterday in my room, in which i have 14 days to tell them at sleepys, we dont want…so in the meantime, we have to find a bed thats right for us BOTH in that timeframe…where are these specialty stores or stores that may have these OFF BRANDS and more helpful knowledgeable people??? im in 19018 zip code

Hi nancy361,

First of all I would echo 70sleeper’s suggestion and I’m glad to see you’ve read the overviews. :slight_smile:

There are also some guidelines in post #10 here which may also be helpful (if nothing else they can help you avoid or eliminate most of the worst quality/value choices).

Before I considered an airbed I would also read this article.

Philadelphia is dominated by large chains such as Sleepys, Americas Mattress and others and quite frankly I wouldn’t walk through their front door even to test mattresses much less buy one. They just won’t provide you with the information you will need about the major brands they carry to make good choices or in some cases to even know the material you are sleeping on. Some of the better options or at least “possibilities” that I’m aware of in the Philadelphia area though are in post #4 here.

Hope this helps


Thanks for the responses…I typed a cpl of reply’s but they didnt go thru… seems i was timed out…hahaha
Phoenix you are very knowledgeable and i thank you for that…I wish i saw this site beforehand…thankfully we can return with no fees the sleep number bed, AND this bed we just bought from sleepys that i said in my orig post… within 21 days can return for full refund or exchange for any other bed, more exp or cheaper…I ask lots of questions and not an easy person to sell things to…very skeptical and i try to learn a bit about whatever big purchase we get…

My big thing is why they say people have to adjust to those 2 type beds that offer the 30 nite trials…why do we have to adjust?? my body felt the bed we got yesterday felt too firm…i have to give it time and let the cells in foam open and then the smell goes away and bed gets more softer, so they say… the cloud line is what i like. the cloud supreme and luxe are soft. thats what i like a bed that i get cozy and snuggle into… a waterbed and these beds now, dont offer that… sleep number had lots of comfy foam but then airbed feeling under it i could feel and it was firm, i didnt like that… i get pressure on my hips and then not the right support for my back…i just want to feel comfy and have it give where its suppose to and support me where i need it…That mattress factory VERLO is minutes away from me. im going to ck that place out and hope we can find a bed we BOTH like and its not too expensive…you said by buying from these factories, price may be cheaper then chain stores etc… hopefully thats so…

it amazes me how my husband who loved his waterbed seems to like this weightless supreme tempur-pedic bed. although it was only 1 nite… He says he wants to give himself a chance to adjust to it…so see?? our bodies and muscles are so used to what we sleep on, that when you try a new bed whether its no good or is great, i guess people have to adjust… Or is this false? consumer reports tells us after lying on a bed for 15 min or so, we will know what feels good and the 1st nite on it wont feel any different then it did in the store…doesnt sound so true…buying a bed is a big and important investment for us personally, so i hope this time around we can find one thatll work for us, at this VERLO factory

Hi nancy361,

Our bodies gradually become accustomed to the mattress we are sleeping on and develops a “sleeping memory” (for better or for worse). This is like someone who usually stands or sits with poor posture and the muscles, tendons, and ligaments either stretch or tighten in a non neutral position and it can be uncomfortable for them to stand or sit with a good posture even though it may prevent other issues in the long term. The bigger a difference there is between your old mattress and the new one … the more of an adjustment there may be … even if the new mattress is better in terms of the alignment it provides.

There is more about this in post #7 here.

There’s a saying that comfort (pressure relief) is what you feel when you go to bed at night and support (alignment) is what you feel when you wake up in the morning. Alignment issues can take longer to become apparent (sleeping out of alignment can lead to back pain as an example but not always right away) … and this is the part that can take some “adjustment” as the muscles and joints loosen and become more used to a more aligned sleeping position assuming of course that the mattress you purchased is suitable in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences).

I should also mention that most mattresses will also go through an initial “break in” period over the first few weeks where the foam softens at a more rapid rate and then further softening becomes much more gradual after that. This is why some mattresses on the showroom floor may be softer (more broken in) than the one that people receive when they order it. Tempurpedic mattresses can actually take longer than normal to “break in” and go through the initial softening and it can sometimes even help to walk on the surface of the mattress to help it along.

A factory direct manufacturer will generally be a lower cost and better value in an apples to apples comparison yes. It may not be cheaper than another mattress that uses much lower quality materials though so when comparing prices it’s important to compare mattresses that use similar types and quality of materials and layering. In other words … the “value” will generally be better in every price range than the mainstream manufacturers and chain stores but they will still have lower and higher priced mattresses.

A mattress is one of the most important purchases we make and has a bigger effect on our overall wellbeing for a decade or so than almost anything else we can buy. This is why it can be so helpful to “connect” with a manufacturer or salesperson that has the experience and knowledge to really help us make the best decision and isn’t so focused on selling us whatever they can (usually based on a subjective showroom feel that may not translate into what we need or prefer when we sleep on a mattress in the longer term) for the sake of their commission or profit margin. The better salespeople put their customers interests (and “fitting” them to a mattress that is most suitable to their needs and preferences) above their own interests. This is how they build word of mouth advertising and their local reputation which is how most people find out about them more than the massive advertising that is done by the larger companies.


PS: I added a few other “possibilities” to the Philadelphia list but they will mostly require some more research (along the lines of this article) to find out the types of mattresses they carry from the manufacturers listed and to find out how knowledgeable and transparent they are about the materials and construction of their mattresses.

thanks for the info,I figured our bodies had to adjust but not the extreme…People dont want to buy a bed and be sore for days or wks til body gets used to the bed…

what are your thoughts on the tempur beds?? im calling today to get this bed out of her. Then we will go ck out the beds at verlo…

Are there any brand of beds that have a good rep. that anyone can tell me about?

Im definitely needing a comfort level thats pillowy so i can sink into the bed, not lay on top of it…but yes id also want a bed that doesnt let me sink down further then i should…and it makes sense to know how a bed is made and what types of material are used to get the best bed for me…too bad i cant make my husband understand all ive been reading here and grasp the concept…again he says he wish he still had his waterbed and i got my own bed and put it in the spare room…Not like i want to wake up feeling sore, i cant help the way i feel…

i suggested we both get twin mattress and put them on a king frame, so we can get what we both like and be happy… he thinks its a dumb idea and worries that whatll happen if we roll to the middle… i say nothing will happen…

oh well… we will keep looking

I took the tempur bed out of my room and put in spare room…called sleepys and of course they give you the run around… But it didnt work with me…come and get it out of here…too hard for me…sleeping on the sleep number bed again, until they come abd get that in early october…didnt care for it, but its better then the tempur bed…

have you ever heard of the mattress experts in delaware?

i saw that from on this website somewhere. they are a small shop, but they seem to carry the name brands, that you suggested to steer away from…they talk about buying from smaller shops and how beds are made etc too, i was just wondering why they carry the name brands…has anyone ever heard of them or used them??

Hi nancy361,

I certainly agree with this :slight_smile:

If the new mattress is appropriate for your body type and sleeping positions and you are “adjusting” to a mattress that has better support and alignment compared to the mattress that you are replacing then that may be worth it but if the new mattress is not appropriate for your body type and sleeping positions and the “adjustment” is because you are now sleeping out of alignment or the mattress is not appropriate for your needs and preferences … then this is not so good and could contribute to longer term issues.

No … brands are not important because it’s the materials in the mattress and it’s construction that determines how well a mattress will perform for your unique needs and preferences. You can read a bit more about “brand shopping” in this article and also the first article on the front page of the site. Any manufacturer can make a mattress out of any materials they choose. Having said that … this article may help you avoid most of the worst choices in terms of brands or manufacturers that are known to use lower quality materials (or even worse not tell you at all what is in the mattress) or charge higher prices in every budget range of their mattresses in an apples to apples comparison. In general … you are always better off by looking at mattresses that are made by smaller independent manufacturers (what the larger brands call “off brands” who don’t advertise as much if at all and which are sold either factory direct or through better sleep shops. They are the source of the best quality and value you will find. Post #10 here will give you a step by step process that will greatly improve your odds of finding the best possible quality and value in a mattress and finding the manufacturers and retailers in your area that have the knowledge and experience to help you make the most suitable choices no matter what your budget.

Some of the manufacturers and retailers that are among the best quality and value in the country have been invited to become members here (you can see them here) but there are many others that exist across the country that are not members yet who have been making exceptionally high quality mattresses with great value for generations but are often lost in the “noise” of advertising by major brands and mass market outlets.

The short version is mostly good quality (with a few exceptions like the Simplicity line) but very poor value. There are many manufacturers who make mattresses with similar or better quality materials that are an “apples to apples” comparison that sell for significantly less. They are among the major brands I would avoid. You can read more about my thoughts about Tempurpedic in this thread and in post #10 here.

The balance between the contradictory demands of “comfort” (pressure relief) and support (alignment) is of course the main challenge in choosing a mattress. The help and guidance of a salesperson with integrity, knowledge, and experience can be a huge help in making good choices. This is why it is usually more important to find the best outlets in your area before you start trying to find the best mattress. The goal is to just learn enough of the basics (the overviews are good for this) so you can ask better questions and know who is giving you good information and can help you find the experts rather than needing to become one yourself (although even reading the overviews will often give you more knowledge than many people who sell mattresses).

There are several good options in terms of couples that have different needs and preferences. One is as you suggested (two twin XL mattresses making up a King size), one is the many mattressses that are available that have “split” layers (where each side is constructed differently), and one is certain designs that because of how they are layered can accommodate different weights and shapes on the same mattress. Twin mattresses would actually lower the possibility of “roll together” not increase it because each side would act independently of the other and the heavier person wouldn’t be creating an impression that the other one may tend to roll into.

Hope this helps


yes it did help, thanks again…I think what i was meaning when i asked about brands and which was better, was i was thinking about is there any bed or company that stands out more then the rest for better quality in how its made…

from things you have stated on this site, its all very individual… I read where some pillowtops were too pillowy and maybe not good…the salesman in sleepsys says he doesnt recommend pillowtops for adults, mainly just kids…whats the big difference when words like PLUSH and pillowy are discussed?? i think of plush as more the feeling of the fabric when i rub my hands on it, and pillowy as the fluffiness or thick this accurate?

have you heard of the the mattress experts in delaware?

as for the tempur bed…i dont think it was right fit for me…I go to bed and toss and turn and still have the smell that comes with it and get alll stuffy…whats funny is when i put the sleep number bed back in my room and got it all together, i thought to myself, its not a bad idea they have here…the base is solid and you can see how its all made and all the materials and foams etc as well as the material topper, which has that cool feel to it…yes its canvas airbed that fills with air, but the bed we layed in to get our personal fit number that showed the pressure points in the graph, that bed was the original one im guessing… not the ones that are thick and padded and so when its filling and contouring to your body, from what the picture graph showed me i could see the pressure points getting more relieved as it filled around my shape then i decide when to stop it so it doesnt feel uncomfortable on my back…so its like with out bed the i10 its a lot more thicker then the bed they use to show you how it works and i wonder if that has anything to do with it…like i said, dont think its a bad idea, just not sure of the support part of it as an airbed and how its suppose to cradle you and definitely doesnt justify the price at all…

Hi nancy361,

Yes there are … and while there are too many to list in a single post because the specific mattress and the materials in it means more than the name on the mattress, they are generally the smaller local manufacturers or independent brands (what the majors call “off brands”) that are different in each area of the country and are sold factory direct or through better sleep shops. While even these should be purchased based on what is in the mattress rather than the name of the manufacturer or brand, the odds of finding better quality and value are better with these types of manuacturers or retailers with fewer exceptions than if you are looking at major brands or chain stores. Some places will sell both and then it’s more important than ever to pay the most attention to what is in the mattress than he name on the mattress.

Sleepy’s, like other chain stores and mass market outlets, are not known for having salespeople that are knowledgeable about mattress materials and this is an example of the type of meaningless information you will often hear from them. Pillowtops are a type of mattress construction and how “good or bad” a pillowtop mattress may be depends on what material is in the pillowtop more than the fact that a mattress uses this type of construction. Most major manufacturers though do use thicker layers of lower quality polyfoam materials in the pillowtop so these should be avoided because they have too much thik, soft, lower quality materials in the very important comfort layers of the mattress (which is the weak link of most mattresses). A tight top (that doesn’t have a separate “pillow” attached to the top of the mattress that had the same materials in the same thickness would be just as poor a choice.

Words like “plush” or “pillowy” are completely meaningless and have as many different meanings as there are people who use them. All mattresses need a combination of soft materials on top (for pressure relief) and firmer materials in the lower layers (for support) and they interact together. Both ned to be described separately and be suitable for the body type, sleeping positions, and preferences (including durability and budget considerations) of each person. Describing a mattress with a single description as either soft or firm or anything in between is only a partial description of a mattress because it tells you little about the type of comfort layer of support layers of the mattress and one person’s “soft” is another person’s “firm”.

Yes … they sell some mattresses that may have better quality and value than many larger brands (such as Pure Latex Bliss and their two sided Therapedic/Eclipse mattresses) but they also focus a lot on major brands (Sealy and Simmons) which have lower quality/value IMO. They are very knowledgeable about the major brands they sell but only within the significant limitations of the information that the major manufacturers provide them (for example they won’t be able to tell you about the quality specs of the materials of most of their major brand mattresses even though they do include a description of the generic layering of each mattress).

They are good at “fitting” these brands to a particular person and know how their mattresses compare in “feel” and performance to others but this wouldn’t make a difference to me because I would tend to avoid all the major brands anyway no matter how well they may fit my needs and preferences in terms of how they felt of performed. They also have (or have had) some strongly held opinions which I don’t share at all. Some of these opinions which I strongly disagree with include …

They constantly promote the major brands and “put down” the “off brands” which are the very manufacturers which I believe tend to have much better quality and value (based on the materials that are in them) than the mattresses they sell.

They are very much against memory foam in any form and call all memory foam mattresses “a colossal waste of money”. While memory foam is not by any means my favorite material … I also think it has a valuable place in mattress construction and for those who prefer it and make sure that it is good quality and suitable for their body type and sleeping positions, … it can be a good choice IMO.

They tended to promote a lot of the Sealy (and now Stearns & Foster) latex mattresses before they sold Pure Latex Bliss and would often tell people that the synthetic latex they used was superior to natural latex which of course doesn’t fit the facts and only fits what they were selling. They have now changed this a bit over the years and especially since they started selling Pure Latex Bliss which uses blended Talalay. they also tended to “ignore” the often thick layers of lower quality polyfoam in the comfort layers of their “latex mattresses” and the effect they would have on the durability and long term performance of their mattresses. This would lead many people to believing that they were sleeping on high quality latex when in fact they were often sleeping on layers of lower quality polyfoam.

They focus more on generic descriptions of their matresses and don’t focus on the specific quality of the materials that are in most of them (because their manufacturers don’t provide this).

On the other side of the coin …

I respect their efforts and dedication to the blog they have maintained for many years and enjoy reading it. It can be very informative for those who are looking for information about major brand mattresses. I also like their “direct” approach to people who post there and they are not hesitant to say what they believe. Some of it I agree with and I believe they are more “educational” than many other retailers even though some of it (as mentioned above) I don’t.

There are many better choices IMO but they also carry some mattresses that may be “better than average” value (assuming that they can provide the information about what is in them because if they can’t there is no way to confirm the value of any mattress) and providing that no matter what you are told about them … you can “ignore” the major brands they carry.

This article will provide you with much more information about airbeds and how to make meaningful comparisons between them and other types of mattresses. The air bladder they use as a support layer should be compared to other types of support materials (they use the same types of comfort layers as any other type of mattress and this is most of what people feel on a mattress) and in a comparison to other types of support cores … they don’t fare very well. As you will read … air is not a great support material and the comfort of an airbed comes mostly from the layers above the air bladder. I would tend to avoid them unless there was a particularly compelling reason to include them as a possibility that was based on fact and meaningful “apples to apples” comparisons with othr support systems rather than the marketing stories and misinformation (and generally poor value) that tends to be “attached” to them.


Im online now looking at the mattress expert website, and see the therapedic and eclipse beds they have…What is it about them that is better then NAME brand beds in how they are made?? a store near me called THE MATTRESS FACTORY, in springfield, PA…carries those 2 brands as well…Therapedic Mattress Sale - The Mattress Factory

…funny how the name brand beds are all in the front area of the stores, and yet other brands, ive never heard of are in back or along the walls…ive never heard of kingsdown until i saw that MYSIDE bed, which appears to be junk…ive seen names like carolina and therapedic back sense, comforpedic by beautyrest, dr breus…king koil, hotel maison, i mean some of these ive never heard of, let alone know how they feel or how they are made…I thought that some brands were a decent bed, simmons and stearns and foster, of course they have different lines and types, but out of the name brands, arent they okay? are any of the name brand companies making the beds okay? Or from your studies you feel no??

I called the Verlo shop, lady was very helpful…and the prices are so reasonable, trouble is they dont at this time have any payment plans or financing…so thats a downer…beds arent cheap to just dole out cash or ck or charge

what is this PURE LATEX BLISS bed i read about here?? what is it about it that makes it a worth buy??

sleepys is coming tomorrow to get the tempur bed we have…sleep number bed, we have to box back up and take to UPS store, they are paying to ship back…so we wont have anything, our air mattress will be a bed til we find something…husband isnt thrilled about that…whatever we buy and whereever we buy from, this is it…we wont have trials or be able to return…so anything anyone can offer up or suggest in direction where to start or any OFF BRANDS that people know of that are made with good quality materials and worth cking out would be appreciated…

this DR BREUS bed, seems like all hype about him and his bed, but doesnt go into depth of what the bed layers are made of…all sounds good but who knows…The Dr. Breus Bed® - Signature Mattresses

I know this isnt what this site is about…good thing with mattress experts is delivery here to PA 19018 is free and tax free and has financing…yes they have the name brand, but also the 2 sided beds, therapedic and eclipse and that PLB bed…seems like the therapedic and eclipses are more firmer from their description and use heavy gauge coils…if we get coils i like the individual ones, like what simmons has with beautyrest, they seem to give where needed…i dont know, its like the more i read and more i search online its all getting too much…we need to buy a bed, air mattress wont cut it for long…and H is still whining about his waterbed that he shouldve kept:(

Hi nancy361,

There is absolutely nothing about a particular brand that is inherently better than any other because the “brand” is not important when you buy a mattress. The way to know the quality or value of a mattress is by knowing the materials that are in it on a “mattress by mattress” basis and each manufacturer makes a wide range of mattresses. Some of the larger “alternative” brands such as Therapedic, Eclipse, Restonic, Englander (all of which are in the top 15 manufacturers by size) and others are made by a group of independent licensee factories and there can be differences between them from factory to factory. Dealing with a good privately owned licensee factory is like dealing with a smaller manufacturer in many cases.

With some of these licensee factories … the odds are better that they will disclose the details of the materials in their mattress (to their retailers) and if the factory that makes them makes this information available and the retailer that sells them is willing and able to give them to you the consumer … then you have a way to know the quality of any mattress you are looking at. These “alternative” brands made by good licensee factories or by smaller independent factories who sell factory direct or through better sleep shops tend to use higher quality and more durable materials in each price range than the largest brands do which is the main reason they are better quality. A mattress that is two sided is also a bonus because it will last longer.

The bottom line though is that even though your odds are better of being able to find out the specs of the materials in your mattress when you are dealing with a good licensee (or any good factory) in combination with a good retailer, if either of them make this information difficult to find and/or don’t understand its importance … then I would pass them by no matter what the brand. This is the most important part of researching different retail outlets (along the lines of this article) If they “pass your interview” … then I would be likely to deal with them. If they don’t (and either can’t or won’t provide you with meaningful information about their mattresses) … then I wouldn’t. It’s really as simple as that.

All the major brands like Sealy, Simmons, Serta, Kingsdown, and others tend to make this information difficult if not impossible to find. If you are able to track it down … you will almost always find the quality of their materials and foam is inferior in each price range (especially in the most important upper layers of the mattress). They sell their mattresses by “advertising stories” and because so few consumers even know the questions to ask or how to determine quality … they have been able to do this for many years as the quality of their materials has decreased and the influence of their advertising stories has increased.

The mid size brands or licensee factories can range from being very open about their materials to just as “closed” as the major brands and which “group” they fall in and how well the retailer that sells them understands the importance of knowing and providing this information is one of the most important parts of deciding who to consider when you are making a mattress purchase. Again … if both the manufacturer and the retailer is able and happy to tell you what is in their mattresses … I would include them in my research. If either one isn’t (meaning that you won’t be able to find out) … then I wouldn’t include them in my research or give them any consideration. Smaller factory direct manufacturers and retailers who insist on only dealing with “open” manufacturers are the places where this information is easiest to find and better yet … the people who own and work at these stores will tell you what the information really means so you don’t have to be an “expert” to understand it. They sell “quality and value” not “stories and profit margin”. These are the places I would deal with.

So the most important comparisons before you even start to choose a mattress should always be based first on comparisons between retailers and which can and will tell you what you need to know as an “educated consumer”. Once you have found these (the better retailers or factory direct outlets) then you can make comparisons between mattresses based on real information about the quality of materials that are in them.

It is made from Talalay latex which is among the highest quality material that can be used in a mattress. They are a smaller nationwide manufacturer that is owned by the manufacturer of a lot of the Talalay latex used in North America. They can be better value than comparable mattresses (and there aren’t many of these) made by major brands which use similar materials or a mix of latex and other lower cost materials in their “latex” mattresses although smaller independents that also make latex mattresses may be better value yet. The guidelines I linked to earlier and the sections of the website that they link to will tell you much more about which materials are better or worse quality. There is also an article here that talks in more depth about the pros and cons of latex.

Again … I would suggest using the “formula” suggested in post #10 here. first find the better retailers and manufacturers (that are more open about their materials) … then use the experience and knowledge of the better retailers and factory directs in your area to “educate” you so you can make the best choices. All the time you spend in retailers that in the end can’t give you what you need to know about a mattress will end up being wasted time and lead to more frustration than anything else if there is no way to know the quality of what you are buying.

Dr Breus mattresses (made by Comfort Solutions) are another example of a mattress that is sold by stories. In this case the “story” is about a so called “sleep expert” who has suddenly become a “mattress expert” and yet they still won’t tell you the details of what is in the mattress. Once again, buying a mattress like this means you are buying a story that was carefully constructed to entice consumers that don’t know how to tell the quality of the materials to buy a mattress that 'sounds good". What you want to know is that it IS good. In many cases … retailers will call this a “latex mattress” when latex is only part (and in some models only a small part) of what is in the mattress.

To “cut through” all the confusion and frustration … deal with people have the knowledge and experience to tell you what you need to know to find real quality and value and then work with these people to make the choices that best fits your needs and preferences. Walk past manufacturers or retailers that only offer stories about their mattresses and none of the real information and you will save yourself a LOT of grief and end up with a much better choice :slight_smile:

If all you take away from this website is to only deal with manufacturers and retailers who focus on and disclose the real information about the quality of the materials in a mattress … then you are already ahead of over 90% of the consumers in this country who are only buying “stories” and then in a few years (or much sooner) discover that the ending of the story they “bought” isn’t quite as happy as they hoped…


Thanks again…wish i could get my H to read this stuff…he thinks everyone has a story and cant be trusted…and just cause ive read things on this forum and i go into a store, doesnt mean ill know what they say when the answer a question ive asked…

the mattress expert store, i called them too, guy was nice and seemed to relay most of what is written on their website plus some other things…He did suggest the stearns and foster bed and then adding a latex topper to it…so i get the firmness yet have the comfort layer of all latex…You did say they seem to push those beds…wonder why that is??

i guess we will ck out that shop and see what they have and if they can say anything about how its made…plus see if they care about the consumers needs…like i said, my husband thinks all they ALL want is to make a sale, small store or large chain…either way we have to buy a bed at some point

Hi nancy361,

You won’t have to know with a better retailer because they will tell you what the numbers and specs mean and quite freely tell you which mattress has better quality materials. You can also write down the specs and post them on the forum here and ask what the quality of the materials really is. The retailers that tend to tell you in the first place are also the ones who will tend to be truthful about what they mean.

The real question to ask here would be … “can you tell me the quality of the materials in every layer of the Stearns & Foster you are suggesting?”. Of course they won’t be able to and all the low quality polyfoam that S&F uses on top will be part of the “package”. They aren’t even worth considering … even as a “base” for a latex topper although the concept is good and certainly has advantages.

For example … take this top of the line Stearns and Foster “luxury latex” here. As you can see it uses what they call “smart latex” in the bottom 8.75" layer (this is mostly synthetic latex which is the lowest cost and quality latex you can buy) and then it has another .75" of the same material in the upper layers along with 1" of “intuisoft” latex which is slightly better quality (higher natural latex content but still a synthetic/natural blend). The worst part though is that alll the other materials in the upper layers (hypersoft, HD foam, and supersoft) is just lower quality polyfoam and there is 5" of it in the upper layers of the mattress. This is exactly the type of foam that you don’t want in the upper layers of a mattress (or at least no more than around an inch or so) because it doesn’t last as long as higher quality materials and softens and degrades much more quickly than better materials. At the very least they should tell you the density of this polyfoam but they won’t. You are paying “top of the line prices” for lower quality materials. People who shop by brand are the ones who pay the price.

So here you have a “top of the line” so called “latex mattress” from a supposedly high quality manufacturer when you are in fact not really sleeping on latex but 5" of polyfoam and even the latex that it does have is the lowest quailty/cost available. All of this for $3000 queen size when you can buy a queen 9" all latex mattress (without the polyfoam) that uses much higher quality latex for less than 2/3 the price of the inferior Stearns & Foster from a smaller manufacturer. There are many people who buy a Stearns & foster “latex” mattress who believe that when it develops impressions from the polyfoam that it’s the latex that is the problem.

If you buy a different Stearns & Foster to use as a base under a latex topper (which can be a good idea) … then the mattress under the topper will still have low quality polyfoam in the top layers.

Even the that they also sell has 10" of much higher quality latex in it and sells for about the same price and these (and other similar mattresses made by smaller manufacturers) can sometimes be purchased for under $2000.

Firmness and comfort have nothing to do with quality. Any material can be made firmer or softer. You can’t “feel” quality … you can only know it by knowing what is in the mattress.

Comfort is what you feel when you go to bed. Support is what you feel when you wake up. Durability and quality is what you feel in a year or a few years after you have bought the mattress (and sometimes it only takes weeks to feel the effect of lower quality materials).

They “push” certain beds because it’s easy to convince uneducated consumers that a major brand is good quality even when it’s not so they are easy to sell. They also like the profit margins although that would also apply to other mattresses as well. The PLB toppers they sell are also very expensive so selling you a “base” bed plus a topper is also a high profit sale. Most consumers believe (wrongly) that the purchase of a major brand means they are getting good quality and because they don’t know any better and believe that they are making a “safe” purchase … they keep buying them because that’s what they hear advertised.

If they don’t confirm that they know and will tell you the layers of any mattress you are planning to look at BEFORE you go to visit them … you would be wasting your time going there. The Pure Latex bliss at least you know uses all high quality materials (Talalay latex is high quality no matter what the density) so these would be worth testing. If they can’t confirm on a phone call that they can and will tell you the density of the polyfoam in all their other mattresses … then it isn’t worth even testing them no matter how they may feel “in the showroom”. Even the cheapest materials can feel good in a showroom.


well thats the thing, im narrowing down to nothing as far as who and where is the better retailer…i looked on the list that you have on this forum and it seems the few places nearest me either arent worth going to or they dont finance or they are further away…my zip code is 19018 and i see tons of chain stores for beds and all the furniture stores that have beds…never knew VERLO was here, but they dont finance and i just dont have that kind of cash to hand over…whats funny is i mentioned to the guy from mattress expert about verlo…he says just cause they build them right there doesnt mean they use any different materials or better quality…they build beds, not just for me but for stores too…i thought that was a dumb thing to say…verlo clearly states they use the highest quality materials…Im not an easy sell either and salesmen are salesmen, they all want to sell their products…but as you say, if they can tell me a whole lot of in depth about how the bed is put togteher as far as quality materials then thats a good thing…doesnt mean ill understand all he says, but i will know if its all jumble talk too…and i ask lots of questions…just wish i knew some better retailers in my area…and you say about the price and the smaller retailers and how the price can be lots less at these smaller places…well where are these places??? chain bed stores and dept store beds are all the same, probably safe to say they dont know anything about them…

what are your thoughts on the quality materials in those therapedic/eclipse beds? that store(mattress expert) has them as well as 2 sided beds.

the other store near me, the mattress factory has eclipse and therapedic too…Eclipse Chiropractors Care Mattresses - The Mattress Factory - Philadelphia, PA & NJ

these are not name brands…what do you think of some of these? is there any that stands out more for you as better then the other? at least if it shows what its made of and maybe help steer me to go ck them out

Hi nancy361,

There is no way for me or anyone else to know the quality of the materials in a mattress unless someone provides meaningful information about the layers and materials in the mattress. The words “Therapedic” or “Elipse” mean little. These are just the names of the manufacturer and say nothing about any of the specific mattresses you are considering. To make a meaningful evaluation of any mattress … you need to know the layers and what the layers are made of. Without this you are making a “blind” purchase and spending what for most people is a lot of money on one of the most important pieces of furniture you can buy that will have a significant effect on your wellbeing for the next decade or so without having any idea of the quality or durability of what you are buying.

In an apples to apples comparison (with similar materials) … a two sided mattress will last and perform well for significantly longer than a one sided mattress. This is because the comfort layers are not stressed as much and have a chance to “rest” from time to time when you flip the mattress (assuming that you actually flip it from time to time). The tradeoff is that the layering possibilities are more limited in terms of the thickness of the comfort layers because if a two sided mattress uses comfort layers that are too thick … then the bottom of the mattress can have too much soft materials for the best possible alignment and support. In general though … assuming that a particular two sided mattress works well for a particular person in terms of PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) … then they can be a “value” and durability bonus.

When mattresses are made … the materials in the mattress are ordered from the manufacturers according to type and quality (which is density in the case of polyfoam and memory foam) so somewhere along the line the materials are known. This information needs to get to you (or to me if I am making an assessment on a mattress). A better retailer will track down these specs and know them because they want to know the quality of what they are selling to their customers. When they say things to their customers like “these are the best quality and value I could find to sell to my customers” … they want to be able to back up these statements with facts. These are the ones who will track down the specs for you …or tell you that nobody will tell them in which case you can choose not to look at the ones with the specs they can’t track down. Perhaps they will switch manufacturers of the mattresses they offer to the ones that are more open with their retailers. Many of these do their best to have these facts available to anyone who wants to know and will clearly tell you when their factory won’t tell even them (in which case I would question why they are carrying them at all).

This is especially true if you are financing a mattress. Are you willing to take the chance that your payments will last longer than the mattress you are buying? The internet is filled with people who bought mattresses that had too much low quality materials in the upper layers of the mattress and a few years (or sometimes months) later they are still paying for a mattress that doesn’t provide the kind of comfort (pressure relief) and support (spinal alignment) that they really need and end up having to “make do” with discomfort or even pain for several years before they can replace it … often with one that is no better because they still don’t know what to look for.

Some of the better possibliities in the Philadelphia area are in post #4 here. This is a place to start from. the next step is to phone the ones that are closest to you and find out how much information they are willing to give you about their mattresses. Work with the ones that understand how important it is to know what is in your mattress. I would rather drive a couple of hours to a better retailer or factory direct manufacturer that will provide me with this and help me make better choices based on real information than spend that same couple of hours testing mattresses only to find out that I’ve wasted my time and still don’t have any meaningful information about what i am thinking about buying.

So the most important part of mattress shopping is what you do at home on the internet and on the phone before you even visit your first outlet. Once you find the better outlets and the most knowledgeable people … choosing a mattress based on “real” information is much easier. There are several on the list that meet these “qualifications” already (and even with a couple you would be able to buy a mattress that was better quality and value than most people would end up buying anyway) and there are more who might as well if you talk to them first and find out. The national or regional brands brands I’ve listed as “possibilities” (such as Therapedic or Eclipse) are listed because they make some mattresses in some areas of the country that have better quality and value and in some areas (and with the insistence of some retailers) they are more transparent.

Because of this … the odds are higher that you may also find better value and transparency if they are available in your area as well but this depends on the commitment of the retailer and the specific factory that makes them in your area to make this information available to their customers. The largest brands are consistent in their lack of transparency everywhere across the country which is why I don’t list them at all. The next tier down of manufacturers varies across the country from licensee to licensee and from retailer to retailer in their transparency and their price and value. The smaller manufacturers are often the most transparent of all … especially the local manufacturers that make mattresses for their local area and sell them through better sleep shops or factory direct. A few phone calls will find out which of the retailers or manufacturers on the list are worth “visiting” and testing mattresses. Even if there was only one or two … I’d spend my time there rather than the dozens that aren’t worth your time and will only lead the risk of a 'blind" purchase or the frustration of trying to track down information that is rarely available to you or even have to learn what it all means because nobody you are dealing with knows enough to tell you. When they don’t know the facts … they sell with stories which are passed down the line and even they don’t really know if the stories they are telling are true. They are just repeating the stories they were told.

For those people or more rare cases where there are no good outlets in the area (and this is not the case in your area) … there are online manufacturers and retailers that are very skilled at working with their customers on the phone and provide great quality and value and are fully transparent. While this may not be ideal because you can’t test their mattresses first, they usually have the knowledge and experience, exchange policies, or custom manufacturing that can increase the odds of making good choices and reducing the risk of an online purchase. In these cases, or when the value is so much better than local options that it is worth the “risk” for a particular person … I would rather buy from one of these than make a “blind” purchase that I may regret much too quickly.


that shop called magic sleeper is in pottstown, PA. … not too far from me and i like the website and all they have to say about the making of and materials they use …here is a pillowtop bed i was liking online and this is what the description says, its not in depth though Features:
its the serenity pillowtop
Individually wrapped pocketed coils
1" of plush latex foam
1" of premium omalon foam
1" of super soft foam
2-1" hyper soft foam quilt to the cover
15 year warranty
they also have the 2sided mattresses, super plush says it has firm support and plush comfort layer

here is the super plush

Firm support with a plush surface
Lifetime Warranty on two-sided mattresses
Super high density foam (50% more than most name brands)
Edge guards (maintains structural integrity)
Ultra heavy duty steel constructed box spring
Edge-wrapped frame for durability and comfort
Top pad and cover secured to every coil
VertiCoil Edge®™ spring unit designed for less motion transfer
Insulator pads (prevents coil protrusion)
Available double sided (flippable) for longevity
Available in Twin, Twin Extra Long, Full, Full Extra Long, Queen, King, California King, Round, or Custom Sizes
Magic Sleeper’s 30 Day Comfort Guarantee

im going to call them, then most likely go see their store, we shall see…

here is tranquil model, listed under natural/organic eco friendly
Aloe Vera ticking

Stimulates healthy skin rejuvenation and provides an antimicrobial sleep surface

2.3 lbs Pure NaturaWool™

Reduces tossing and turning from temperature fluctuations
Improves circulation by buffering pressure points

Natural cotton fire barrier

Meets and exceeds all Canadian & US flammability standards

1" Plant-based foam

Enhances cushioning comfort while supplementing support

2" Talalay latex (blended)

Absorbs motion transfer so couples can sleep together undisturbed

5" Plant-based foam

Provides cushioning support across the whole mattress surface

I spoke to them and asked several questions. this is what they said about a bed i liked …

the Super Plush mattress has a 2" 2.4 density foam. Most name brands are using 1.2-1.5 density foams. If you spend a few thousand, you may be able to get a mattress with 1.8 density foam. We focus on long lasting comfort. And of course 2-sided mattresses last twice as long as double sided mattress.

I will suggest to you the Design Your Own mattress. Although it is one-sided, it comes with a zipper that allows you to change the style of foam for as long as you have the mattress. Our customers love the customization of this mattress. You can also make one side firm and the other side soft, or all one way. We also use 2.4 density foam in this mattress.

they said they do use high quality materials and customer satisfaction is very important…and if we choose a bed then we can ask about what all will be put in it and its quality beforehand so we know…worth the hour drive to go there for sure

Hi nancy361,

Now you are “connecting” with a manufacturer who will help you make good choices and who will actually tell you what they use in their mattresses, provide you with good information, and which have good quality and value as well … especially with the mattresses they make themselves :).

Connecting with better retailers and manufacturers makes the next step of choosing a mattress much simpler and “bypasses” the need to become an expert yourself.


yea well, couldnt have done it without you and all your info and knowledge on this forum…Thanks !!!

Im guessing the info you read on my last post was good, as far as the material and quality they said to me? I did ask them in a message about what types of foams and materials they use as well, she didnt say the type, just the quantity of foam…but i guess ill learn and know more when i get there …anything i should be aware of as far as keywords in them describing things to me, im far from a pro who knows