White flag raised - my unconditional surrender

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
, , , ,
1

Greetings all! I sorely wish that my first post here was a bit more optimistic, but I’m quite discouraged at present and trying to find a direction forward.

Phoenix - thank you for your staggering knowledge base. I’ve learned more about the mattress industry, what constitutes real “quality,” and how to shop just from lurking on these forums - an entire universe that I never knew existed until I stumbled across these forums.

So here’s the story, buckle up :slight_smile:

I very nearly lost my life this past summer due to: an unholy maelstrom of:

  1. A freakish reaction to a prescribed steroid
  2. A severely lethal case of undiagnosed sleep apnea - hello, BIPAP therapy! :unsure:
  3. Family genetics

The above conditions culminated in a 15-day stay at a delightful cardiac specialty hospital - the first six of which I lost an incomprehensible 125 pounds in the first 6 days.

That isn’t a typo, it happened. To date, there’s no medical explanation as to how I survived this, nor any rationale for why I’m healing SO fast with such a fantastic long term prognosis. Life is on the cusp of being truly great now, and I appreciate every person I meet, even total strangers on a mattress forum. :cheer:

In the aftermath, I literally woke up overnight in an entirely new body - “Avatar: The Home Game.” It’s taken several months of physical therapy to rebuild my center of gravity and leg strength, with shifts in posture, muscles, skeleton, etc. There’s much pain as a result, including a slight shift in a lower back disk that occasionally causes my left side to “tingle.” I’ve been forced to abandon stomach sleeping after a lifetime and I’m slowly transitioning to my back

Unfortunately, I now require an adjustable bed frame with a “zero gravity” setting, which seriously limits my choices, so I’m stuck with either latex or memory foam with a thickness no more than 11’ - an entirely new world if you’re used to sleeping on a cruddy off-brand innerspring.

Thanks to the wonderful caliber of posts here, I now understand what to shop for in a mattress. Unfortunately, I also live in a area that’s fairly desolate with no local companies and filled with “Mattress Firm” type stores. I LOVE the idea of saving money and getting a better product, but I’m quite discouraged after reading some of the feedback on these forums. Even good return policies seem to be incredible hassles for people, and nobody seems to actually have a product that is as described - probably just the nature of how subjective “comfort” is.

For example, I’ve been in contact with one well-regarded manufacture that’s a member of this site and I’m befuddled that they described latex as “feeling like an innerspring” - not at ALL the type of feel I expected after researching,but I also don’t want memory foam mattresses that might use solid, durable densities but still ultimately feel like quilted bricks.

So, I’m saddened to say that I’m going down with this ship… Against all common sense, on these very forums, I feel like I"m trapped in the big box world, because I just can’t endure gambles at this point or eventually spending more money on returns, having NO bed to sleep on in such windows, and an endless merry-go-round.

I don’t know what the solution is. It’s quite obvious that the “Big S” manufacturers have a remarkable stranglehold on people like me. I don’t feel like I have any choice in my situation other than sucking it up and financing a Tempurpedic.

Thanks for all of your well reasoned arguments - I’m at a total loss as to how to fix this and the pain isn’t going away.

1 Like
2

Hi LackOSleep,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Oh my goodness, :ohmy: you must have been retaining an incredible amount of fluids. I’m so happy that you are doing better and on the mend. :cheer:

This is good, as stomach sleeping is in general the worst for maintaining alignment. Sleeping on your back will have the lowest intervertebral disc pressure (25% of standing). The next best is side sleeping (75% as compared to standing).

Zero-Gravity is just an everyday term for semi-Flowler’s position which is simply elevating your feet a bit and elevating your torso a bit. Bending the knees at 135 degrees and the torso at 45 degrees is said to approximate the unloaded posture experienced by astronauts. Any adjustable bed base with separate motors for the head and foot section will be able to do this for you.

If you need to stay around 11" (I’m guessing for ease of access), you certainly can stay in that range with many variations of memory foam or latex mattresses. Latex will certainly be the type of foam that will best put up with the specific demands placed upon it by using in an adjustable bed environment.

Thank you. I’m glad that the information presented here has bene useful to you.

If you can provide your zip code I can see if I have a listing of retailers that might be better choices in your area.

You certainly can find varying levels of satisfaction on different forums, but the overall feedback I’ve received from members dealing with knowledgeable retailers and manufacturers has been overwhelmingly positive. Of course, that is providing these people have done their research like you seem to have done (like starting with the Mattress Shopping Tutorial), and are dealing with knowledgeable manufacturers (like those listed in post #21 here).

Again, you can always find “experiences” that are extreme, or people whose definition of a hassle is quite different from yours or mine. Most manufacturers make it as convenient as they can if you have to return a product. The most work you’ll generally have to perform might be using a vacuum cleaner to shrink a foam layer should you have to exchange it. There are very complete videos available showing how to perform this should it be necessary if a purchase doesn’t turn out as you expected. However, it may be easier for you in your particular situation to stay with a local retailer where they can take care of everything for you, and that’s an important part of your personal PPP. There’s certainly nothing wrong with that.

You are correct, comfort is truly subjective and there is no one ultimate “comfort scale” that can accurately relate a relative comfort to applies equally to everyone. The first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Post #2 here and this topic have more about the pros and cons of a local vs an online purchase.

More than likely they were trying to describe the buoyant feel that is commonly attributed to an all latex mattress, particularly Talalay latex. Many people have the misconception that latex feels the same as memory foam, as they are both “foams”. It certainly can be difficult to ascertain how a product feels via a phone conversation, especially if you’ve never tried such a product or have a frame of reference for comparison.

If it’s your personal position that having to potentially return a product is currently too inconvenient for you, then you would be left with dealing with more local retailers. If you can reply back with your zip code, I’ll see if I can come up with some options that you haven’t tried yet.

Phoenix

3

I appreciate the detailed, fast response - and expected nothing less. :slight_smile:

Local is 76302. I WISH there was some place I could at least try a latex mattress, but there doesn’t appear to be anything within a two hour drive. In theory, it should be “ideal,” but I’d like to at least get a feel for the material.

4

Hi LackOSleep,

You’re very welcome!

I agree with you that trying something out in person, especially with your specific situation, is very important.

As you’re probably already aware, the better options or possibilities I’m aware of that would likely be closest to you would either be in the Dallas/Ft Worth list in post #4 here or in the Abilene and San Angelo list in post #7 here. but the Dallas/Ft Worth list would have the widest choices and better quality/value options than the others. You also may wish to consider the Tulsa and Oklahoma City areas are listed in post #2 here.

I performed a quick search for mattress stores in Wichita Falls and a few possibilities stood out. Montgomery Mattress says that they are able to make latex mattresses. They may be worth a call. Also, you have a Denver Mattress in your area and they started to sell a few Dunlop latex mattresses, but I don’t know if your location offers those.

Here is an old list of retailers in Lawton, TX. You’ll have to check on the accuracy of that list.

If none of the local options work out, then I would personally make some phone calls to stores in the Dallas area and make the two-hour drive, if you are able. The short trip will be worth your time in the overall scheme of things.

Keep us updated on your progress.

Phoenix

5

I appreciate your thoughtful research!

Was in our Denver mattress just the other day, but didn’t notice a latex offfering. Might have to make another trip.

I’ve had a good interaction with Selectabed’s customer service. They’re pretty responsive to my questions and actually advised against a more expensive model due to my - well… “unique” situation.

My concern is I just can’t seem to find much feedback on their Tri-pedic Platinum mattress and their return policy seems rather severe unless I misread it. Should anyone have experiences with Selectabed, I’d love to hear them!

It’s amazing how one can go their entire life without giving a thought to something as “mundane” as a mattress - until a sleep disorder nearly takes your life.

I’m only 42 - I’ve inexplicably been given a tremendous gift of rebirth, and won’t spend another moment in physical distress… Thanks again for your perseverance - it absolutely makes a difference!

6

Hi LackOSleep,

Just phone them and ask if they have their all-latex mattresses on the floor. Not all of their stores will offer it. It will save you a trip.

When you can’t try out a product in person, your next best option is always a detailed phone conversation. I’m glad they were able to offer you some good initial advice.

I don’t remember the density of the polyfoam Selectfoam uses in their mattresses except to say that it is in the higher quality/density range but they are very transparent and will provide them to you when you talk with them. There is more about the different lines of mattresses they make in post #9 here but the Tri-Pedic line uses more traditional TDI memory foam.

My last notes show that the Tripedic line uses “regular” 4 and 5 lb memory foams and the Diamond uses the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe as a comparable reference point. That may have changed since my last conversation with Selectabed, so you’d want to confirm this with them with a phone call. They’ve always been very helpful with their specifications in the past.

However, if by “feedback” you mean “reviews”, while other people’s comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful … I would always keep in mind once again that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

The Selectabed return policy is listed here. They offer 120 days, after which you may opt for a refund or exchange, depending upon the mattress you’ve chosen. It appears that you’d be responsible for return shipping. This policy falls within the range of many online options, so I’m not sure what part of it is severe to you, unless you’re referring to the return shipping fee that you’d potentially have to pay. Shipping is always included in the price of any product, either to or from the manufacturer. Manufacturers with “free” shipping include these costs into the price that everyone pays, effectively subsidizing return shipping of the few that return/exchange an item. Other manufacturers choose to have customers who pay for the retun freight directly and not pass this cost along to everyone. Which method you choose is part of your own PPP.

If you’re looking for other online options to compare, use expertise of the members listed in post #21 here (I linked to this earlier for you in another post) who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex and memory foam and other options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.

I’m just glad that you’re feeling better on getting stronger. :slight_smile:

Please keep me updated with your progress.

Phoenix

7

Thanks again for the prompt response.

As for the 11" thickness limit, my understanding from some vendors is that anything thicker might cause issues with an adjustable bedframe. If that’s incorrect, it certainly would broaden my options.

For reference, the Tempur-Pedic Flex Supreme Breeze and Cloud Supreme Breeze are pretty close to what might work for me, but I’m not sure how the Flex hybrid-coil would work on an adjustable base.

8

Hi LackOSleep,

In very general terms most foam mattresses (memory foam, latex foam, polyfoam) that aren’t more than about 12" thick and most pocket coil mattresses will be flexible enough to work well on an adjustable bed. Foam mattresses that are over about 12" thick may not contour to the adjustable bed as effectively. While in general terms thinner mattresses will tend to be more flexible than thicker mattresses and will contour to an adjustable bed more effectively … this can also depend on the specifics of the mattress layers and components so 12" thickness is only a general guideline because some mattresses that are a little thicker than that which use more flexible materials may still be fine and some mattresses that are less than that may be less flexible and not work as well.

Having said that there are certainly exceptions and the most reliable source of information about whether any specific mattress would be flexible enough and would be a suitable choice for an adjustable bed will be a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or the manufacturer that makes the mattress. I am familiar with people who have 15" thick all-latex mattresses on power foundations and they perform just fine for them.

Phoenix

9

While I can absolutely vouch for great customer service interactions with Selectabed, I’m afraid I’ll be passing. for a few reasons:

  • Ultimate cost was a bit higher than expected, even approaching Tempur-Pedic prices - not a decisive value proposition.
  • They offer a 120-day guarantee, but you MUST arrange and pay for shipping, which while fair, is pretty brutal for the sheer hassle and expense.
  • Most importantly, the Tri-Pedic Platinum just doesn’t seem to exist. anywhere. Even on this hallowed site, I found approximately ONE person that had it. Elsewhere on the web, feedback of any type is simply non-existent. This falls squarely into “if a tree fell in the woods” territory.

In theory, it sounds like they have a terrific product, but without any type of public feedback both here and elsewhere, the risk/reward factor is just too much of a gamble for me.

I’d also leaned toward the Novosbed and came VERY close to making a purchase, but the review thread here has turned a bit rancorous and there’s just too much negative feedback on firmness levels even with positive reviews. Again though, that’s with the usual caveat of comfort being selective.

I’m wondering if I’m just not the “Online only” type for mattress shopping. Sure seems that way, but my situation is rather unique, as we’ve already established… :slight_smile: :

So, elimination round continues! I have a wonderful week of state-wide travel to see friends and family during the single most appreciated Thanksgiving week of my lifetime. This will entail many stops for fine dining and mattress shopping, of course. Hoping to get a chance to try an actual latex bed, because I’ve received way too many contradictory responses from some of the vendors on this site (“It’s soft and conforming to your body!” “It’s just like a bouncy inner-spring! Only BETTER!”) Perhaps it’s not fair, but it seems that latex beds are more of a wild frontier of newness than memory foam or inner-spring, despite being around for decades. We shall see…

10

Hi LackOSleep,

It’s important that you stay within your own personal PPP and do what you feel is comfortable.

As this site isn’t a review site (and specifically advocates against people using reviews to select a mattress), you won’t find too much in the way of that about any particular product, but you can certainly use whatever detail is provided here to point you in what you feel is the most appropriate direction.

I think in your situation you’ll be best served by trying out products in person to develop your own personal opinion about the product, whether it be latex, innerspring or memory foam.

Good luck!

Phoenix

11

So, I finally tested a few latex mattresses, but it was an exercise in sheer agony. 15 minutes on the material with several different mattresses hit the WRONG pressure points and caused pain and numbness for several hours, so latex is officially eliminated. from my search.

Unfortunately, I’m probably going to be restricted to memory foam going forward, which severely limits my options… Seems like I’m left with the dubious value prospect of a Tempurpedic, or jump onto the online-only world of completely flying blind. The local makers near me have either questionable feedback or push innner springs or latex.

Disheartening.

12

Hi LackOSleep,

Thanks for the update.

It’s unfortunate that you didn’t like any of the latex combinations you were able to sample, but often finding what works is just as much about finding products you don’t like as much as it is finding what you prefer. Some people have an affinity for the pressure-relieving characteristics of memory foam versus those of latex. There is no right answer – just what’s best for you.

The good news is that if you do decide to go with Tempurpedic is that most of their models do use a good quality memory foam. The down side, as you know, is that they tend to be more expensive than comparable online offerings. However, in your situation, the ability of being able to try something out in person certainly has value, and Tempurpedic also offers the ability to return an item.

Keep us posted!

Phoenix

13

Thank you for the kind words of encuragement - please know that you’ve made a difference with this site, and I’m well on the way to relief because of it.

14

Hi LackOSleep,

Thank you!

You’ll get there. This is small potatoes compared to what you’ve been through.

Phoenix

15

There is a crack in everything… That’s how the light gets in.

I’m pleased to report that the arduous mattress crusade has come to an end. While I may be new to this board, I trolled it for months looking for knowledge - I believe that I’ve found my answer.

My “unique” situation required an unorthodox solution, so I’ll excitedly be taking delivery of a Reverie Dream Suprene Hybrid II mattress with an 8Q adjustable bed frame next week!

I was able to test one over the weekend and simply didn’t want to get up. The memory foam cells are completely adjustable, which is an amazing perk for an individual that still has a body in chaos. The mattress was also engineered with adjustable frames in mind, so there’s no compromises in terms of conforming…

It wasn’t the cheapest purchase, but Cyber Monday offered a deal just too good to ignore. I haven’t seen many threads on this product, so I’ll happily be posting benchmarks and impressions at future intervals, with the hopes that I can pass along the wonderful help that I found here.

16

Hi LackOSleep,

Congratulations on your new mattress and adjustable bed! :cheer:

With your current situation, having some sort of a customizable/component system certainly makes sense, as does having a power foundation that allows you to change inclinations as you see fit.

I’ll look forward to your updates after you’ve had your mattress and adjustable bed and have been able to use it for a while.

Phoenix

17

Per Reverie customer service (WONDERFUL to deal with), I’ll be taking delivery of the mattress in early January. Once I’ve had a week on it, I’ll post impressions. Maybe there’s others out there, lurking as I once did, that have somewhat similar needs and just might get some needed info… :cheer:

18

LackOfSleep,

How is your Reverie Dream Supreme mattress? Is yours made of latex or memory foam? Where did you try yours out? Where can I try one out? Im in Los Angeles.

John

19

Hi BillyIdol,

@LackOSleep hasn’t been active on the forum for many years, so it’s doubtful they will see this and respond, but maybe you are the lucky one.

The Reverie Dream Supreme Hybrid II is available at many Costco, Macy’s, and Sam’s Club locations in the Los Angeles area. You were looking at these last May but only focused on the adjustable bases - have you checked for the mattresses at these stores recently? The Dream Supreme Hybrid II has a 3" reversible comfort layer (1.5" Talalay Latex and 1.5" Memory foam of undisclosed density) on top of a 6" layer of ‘rubber springs’ made of Talalay, and on a base layer of ‘revtek’ base foam.

I’d definitely go and try this product in person if there’s a floor model at any of these venues, but I’d take into account that your higher BMI puts more mechanical stress and may create some spring distortions and foam bending into the space between the "foam springs.
This mattress capitalizes on the ability to customize it for medium/firm/soft comfort levels and also for split configurations. You will need to have enough firm foam springs to ensure adequate support for your BMI in all your sleeping positions.

They are not mentioning the ILD/IFD of the comfort layer which may be problematic if any of these 2 layers are too soft as you can sink in and ‘bottom out’ on the springs below (with or without the zoning that can be achieved through rearranging the cylinders). FYI find attached the configurations for Queen and split King.
QueenConfigurations.pdf (68.1 KB)
SplitKingConfigurations.pdf (864.3 KB)

The latex ‘cylinders" act like individual springs and you can rearrange them in different patterns to suit your comfort and alignment needs, but it’s difficult to say how these will ‘hold up’ over time and usage for a higher BMI. The good thing is that If some of the foam springs wear out you can ask for replacements.

When rearranging the foam springs between areas of the mattress you may find that other areas of the mattress will be depleted of needed support. For example, you will be removing some of the edge support if more firmness is needed for maintaining proper alignment in the case of higher-weight individuals.

If you can test this mattress I would still want to find out the Mattress Specifications You Need To Know and compare them to the Mattress Durability Guidelines. If they cannot provide the “left out” specifications or information of their foam components I’d be a bit suspicious as at your higher BMI there are a couple of ‘red flags’ for you to consider.

Phoenix

20

Thank Phoenix!

I called about 20 LA area Reverie dealers and nobody had the Reverie Dream Supreme mattress….they only had the adjustable bases. Costco used to have a Reverie Road Show, but that stopped when Covid came.

I found a few posts by a dealer about the mattress on Reddit. He felt that Dream Supreme was not that comfortable as the competition and did not sell well, and that speaks volumes. But that is almost a review and may mean nothing. I can order off the website, but there is a 25% restocking fee.

My gut tells me that a costumized Flobeds Vzone mattress or Sleep EZ will be a safer, better bet. With Reverie, I dont put much stock into reviews, but I do get nervous if there are almost no reviews. Seems to suggest the mattress is no good. But maybe the Reverie with Dream Cells might be awesome, but not sure if I want to risk the 25% return fee to find out. Id much rather just lay on one for free and then decide.

They have all latex and the memory foam on top of latex. Reverie Dream Supreme with Dream Cells is one of the most exotic, innovative mattress concepts that I have ever seen.

I did go down to Sit N Sleep and try the King Koil Pure Bliss Latex Brook Firm. 100% Talalay. Sitting on side….it felt too soft, but once I laid on my back….it had an amazing “suspension” feeling like being weightless on an amazingly bouncy comfortable jello cloud. Amazingly conforming, yet supportive. The mattress was 11 inches with medium graphite infused latex on top of medium talalay latex core. I liked the medium feel because it was there, but maybe when I get it home, then I might not like it and there is no adjustability. Maybe the firm latex is really for me. Which leads me to the total genius of the Flobeds VZone. Total adjustability. Im just wondering if the feel of the Flobeds will be anything like the King Koil.

Thanks again Phoenix!
You are the best!

John