Toronto Mattress Search

Pheonix,

First off, great site! The amount of information and transparency you provide into the mysterious world of mattresses is truly incredible. On top of that, the personal support you provide through your mattress forums is remarkable. As someone who is constantly researching purchases on the internet (stereos, TVs, autos, skis, you name it…), I don’t think I have ever seen anything like your site in terms of the unbiased, fact-based commentary and educational value.

I have made a small donation in appreciation of your efforts! The entertainment value of the Essentia thread alone was worth it! It’s just too bad they bailed on the discussion so early as it was just getting interesting! (link here for anyone interested)

Now, on to more important things…

After some pretty extensive research on your website, I went out for my first day of shopping today. It was pretty short - the time for shopping has to be fit in between work and the hectic schedule of two young kids (which is why I need to improve my sleep!). I went to Soma as it’s close to where we live and I had about an hour at the shop before they closed for the day. For what it’s worth, I spent my time talking with Christina (sp?), and she was extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I mentioned your site and she knew you instantly. I also put another couple who were in there shopping onto your site! But I digress…

I spent my time focused on two mattress brands - the Green Sleep mattresses and the Sleeptek mattresses. Not for any reason other than a quick tour of the other models - Natura and one other - didn’t seem as comfortable on first pass. Also, given this was my first shopping trip, I decided to focus on fewer brands and instead test the various models in their range to try and narrow down my personal preferences.

The models that I found I liked most were (layers listed from bottom to top):

Sleeptek Euro 3: 6" firm and 4" soft layers ($4,100 King Size)
Sleeptek Euro 4: 4" firm, 4" med, and 2" soft layers ($4,500 King Size)
Green Sleep Gulden: 1.5" firm, 3" medium, 1.5" soft, and 2" soft ($3,700 King Size)

All models were full latex mattresses. I didn’t get into the exact layer details due to time, and also just trying to figure out my tastes without getting too caught up in the technical specs.

I do have some questions for you that came out of today:

  1. Construction
    I was extremely impressed with the construction quality of both brands of mattresses. I was surprised to see how they were put together. For both brands, the various layers are wrapped in an organic cotton covering. The combined layers making up the mattress are then put into a zippered/removable wool/cotton quilted cover. Is this standard construction? I got the impression from some of the reading here and pictures on websites that the layers would be in direct contact with each other and possibly even bonded together.

  2. Layers
    I get the differential/progressive construction of the Sleeptek mattresses. However, I am confused by the layering in the Green Sleep matresses where they often have 4 layers (S, S, M, F as an example). I know from reading your site that 2 - 2" soft layers will be softer than 1 4" layer. Is this all they are trying to do - play with the softness/firmness of the layers without actually changing the type/ILD of the latex?

  3. Pricing
    Any thoughts on the above pricing for a King size mattress would be appreciated.

I am going to try and get out to Dormio this week to try out some of their mattresses. I also have Chris at Dream Time and Ideal Mattress Ltd on my list. I don’t see myself expanding beyond this as I am pretty time constrained and would like to get something ordered asap. If you have any suggestions for Toronto (and yes I have gone through your list in detail), that you feel should be given consideration beyond these. My thought is that I would like to go factory direct, but I was certainly impressed with the products I saw today and would like to make sure that I stay in that range of quality, but maybe improve on the value factor.

Thanks again for the great website and forums!

Hi vram,

Thanks for the kind comments … and for the donation … I appreciate both of them :slight_smile:

[quote]Sleeptek Euro 3: 6" firm and 4" soft layers ($4,100 King Size)
Sleeptek Euro 4: 4" firm, 2" med, and 2" soft layers ($4,500 King Size)
Green Sleep Gulden: 1.5" firm, 3" medium, 1.5" soft, and 2" soft ($3,700 King Size)[/quote]

According to the Sleeptek site the Euro 4 has two 4" layers and the top layer is 2". Like all of these mattresses the layers can be customized in different ways for firmness/softness.

[quote]1) Construction
I was extremely impressed with the construction quality of both brands of mattresses. I was surprised to see how they were put together. For both brands, the various layers are wrapped in an organic cotton covering. The combined layers making up the mattress are then put into a zippered/removable wool/cotton quilted cover. Is this standard construction? I got the impression from some of the reading here and pictures on websites that the layers would be in direct contact with each other and possibly even bonded together.[/quote]

There is certainly no doubt that both of these use high quality materials. You can read a little more in post #2 here about the reasoning behind the separate covers for each layer. For the most part it won’t make any significant difference vs layers that aren’t covered but is certainly helpful for handling the layers and for appearance. Covered layers are probably less common or less “standard” than bare latex layers inside a mattress. Most mattresses where the layers can be re-arranged or exchanged and have zip covers would have loose layers while mattresses that have “finished” covers are more often glued together (post #15 here has more about glued vs unglued layers.)

[quote]2) Layers
I get the differential/progressive construction of the Sleeptek mattresses. However, I am confused by the layering in the Green Sleep matresses where they often have 4 layers (S, S, M, F as an example). I know from reading your site that 2 - 2" soft layers will be softer than 1 4" layer. Is this all they are trying to do - play with the softness/firmness of the layers without actually changing the type/ILD of the latex?[/quote]

The idea behind individual customized layering is that you can customize both the support of the mattress that comes from the deeper layers and the comfort or pressure relief of the mattress that comes from the upper layers. Two 2" layers will only be slightly softer if the ILD’s are the same as the single 4" layer but having two 2" layers can customize the “feel” of the mattress in more ways than a single layer because you can choose different ILD’s or firmness levels for each layer while a single layer only has a single ILD. For some people the difference between two 2" layers and a single 4" layer of the same ILD wouldn’t be enough to notice. The idea in both of these mattresses is to be able to choose the ILD or firmness of each layer that can be customized so that each person can customize the mattress in the way that provides the best possible PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or their body type and sleeping positions.

[quote]3) Pricing
Any thoughts on the above pricing for a King size mattress would be appreciated.[/quote]

These are all very high quality mattresses and use great materials (100% natural Dunlop and significant amounts of wool) but they are also in the premium end of the price range compared to other mattresses that use similar materials so they would be of more interest for people where price wasn’t one of the most significant parts of their personal value equation because there are other similar mattresses that sell for significantly less.

There are many parts to the “value” of a mattress purchase and each person’s personal value equation.

One of these of course and one of the most important is how well the mattress matches your needs and preferences in terms of PPP. This of course is very individual and a mattress that would otherwise be lower value (higher priced) based on the materials or other ways of assessing value may be well worth a premium price for some people if for some reason it was significantly and clearly “better” than any other choice they had. The ability to customize a mattress can be an important part of this but these are not the only mattresses available that can be customized and in some cases a mattress in its “standard” design and can’t be customized may work just as well if it happens to be the “perfect” design for you. There may also be real value in the ability to customize each side of the mattress for a couple that has different needs and preferences.

A second part of “value” is the type and quality of materials vs cost or the “material value” of the mattress compared to others that are similar. There are other mattresses that use the same type, quality, and amount of materials that are in lower price ranges. These may be similar but not the same (just like these three are similar but not the same). I would also keep in mind though that both of these use significant amounts of wool and have good quality covers which is a significant part of the cost of a mattress because it’s often too easy to look at the type or amount of latex alone without regard to anything else.

Of course there are also all the other objective, subjective, and intangible of the “value” of a mattress purchase that are more or less important to each person that may also be important.

As far as any others worth considering I would base that on your preliminary phone calls with each of them, on which ones you are most attracted to for the reasons that are most important to you, and on which ones are closer to you. All of them would certainly be better options than most of the other mattress stores in the city.

I would visit the others that you are considering and narrow down your choices to the “best” at each one (as if you had to choose one mattress at that retailer or manufacturer) and then make your final choice between the finalists at each one. This way all of your final choices will be between “good and good” and no matter what you choose you will end up with a higher quality and value mattress than anything you would likely have purchased from a mainstream brand or store.

Phoenix

Hi VRAM,
Looks like we’re on the same circuit:)
We visited both Soma and Dormio this weekend and liked a couple of models at both locations.
Our preference at Soma was the same as yours with Sleeptek Euro 4 coming out on top. Just trying to get my head wrapped around the price:)
Seems these bands use Dunlop only. I agree the sleeptek seems to be made very well. Dormio pricing seemed comp. to Soma. Very happy with service/knowledge at both locations.

We’re also considering taking a risk and ordering a Flobeds from the US. I do like the thought of buying local, however, it seems Flobeds offers a great product with significant savings vs TO. ( even with shipping costs added in)

Good luck!

Hi Lisa_mocha,

That’s too funny!

I’d be interested in your thoughts on the value of a trip to Dormio. Was there anything significantly different in terms of the product range, or was it essentially more of the same as at Soma?

My next step is to check out some of the factory direct shops that seem to have some of the best feedback on this site. I think this is where I will ultimately end up so if I can cut out an extra retail visit that would be helpful.

I’m trying to get my head around pricing as well…mostly because I am a sucker for value, and think that based on the comments from Phoenix that I should be able to get the best value (as well as exceptional quality) from some of the local factories. I know I will sleep better on a mattress if I feel like I got exactly what I wanted (thanks to the help of Phoenix and this site!), and get a steal in terms of quality and value for price.

I’m not sure that I would be able to get comfortable with ordering a mattress online. Especially after my visit to Soma yesterday. I think getting the layering down would make it easy enough to order exactly what I want online, but the cover material and quality of build/finish are going to be big parts of my personal value equation. And I am going to need to see it in person to feel comfortable with the purchase. As Phoenix has noted, there seems to be more mattress options in Toronto than anywhere in North America. I figure I gotta be able to find something local.

Phoenix - any chance you could help with a recommendation on Factory Direct options? I know you encourage individuals to make their own calls to places and I get the sense that you might be reluctant to be too specific in your advice. Having said that, I have a view that self-discovery is over-rated and people should be more willing to learn from the experiences of others :slight_smile: ! Given the extensive conversations you have already had and your experience with many of the places here, it would be great to get an idea of where you would start.

Lisa_mocha and I would both be eternally grateful!

Thanks Phoenix - the links on how the layers work together and encasing vs. straight latex were helpful. And you are right, the Euro 4 was 4, 4, 2…mistype from my notes in my original entry.

A follow-up question on zoning and how it is done in practice. I feel like I would like to try it as I do constantly have the feeling that my shoulders in particular don’t sink in quite as far as I would like them too when on my back. I have seen the 7 and 5-zone pre-fabricated layers which you have indicated can be gimmicky, too complex for zone matching, etc.

How would a 3-zone layer typically be constructed? Is this a custom layer that a manufacturer needs to order, or would they make it themselves by putting together 3 parts to form a layer? And if so, how is this done?

When did mattress shopping get so complicated?? :slight_smile:

Vram~ Dormio did have a different selection than Soma. (…did not have SavvyRest, Sleeptec, Green Sleep)
If I’m correct, the latex offerings were primarily their own brand, Dormio, made out of Vancouver. (Dunlop latex as well) We liked the Embrosia Plush model(6’’ + 4’’ -can again customize for each side) as well as Sandman model- also 10’‘.
We were advised they’ll be setting up a new 11’’ model this week.
Prices seemed quite comparable to Soma…perhaps slightly higher, but my takeaway was there a little room to negotiate.

My husbands preference so far is the SleepTek Euro 4…he likes the 4/4/2 split vs a 6/4.
We liked the quality of the covering on this model also (as well as on the Green Sleep)

I also might check out Foamite and Ideal Mattress Ltd …

I’m hesitant to purchase on-line, but an enticed by the $ savings; Some on-line retailers like FloBeds seem to have high quality product with a very good return and exchange policy with @ $1000+ savings and that’s based on a 12’’ (talalay) vs 10’’ dunlop.
I’m not well-versed enough to talk about this:)…
Just need to decide if it worth th risk to but ‘untested’ and deal with back and forth shipping over the border. (no Duty thoough…only ON sales tax which we need to pay anyways) SleepEZ has even better pricing than FloBeds so am exploring that option also.
My husband will want to strangle me, lol…I definitely like to comp shop and look at all options/pricing vs. get it over and done with!

Phoenix has done an amazing job in helping with this entire shopping process via his education on this forum! Thank you!!

Hi v-ram,

Unfortunately I’m not familiar enough with the specifics of each manufacturer, your own needs and preferences, or all the mattresses that each of them carry to make any specific suggestions for retailers or manufacturers for the Toronto area and I never make specific mattress suggestions because there are just too many unknowns and variables for theory at a distance to be an effective way to make a choice (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). Over time and with more feedback from forum members the Toronto market should “clear up” a little but I do know based on the threads that I linked earlier that there is some good value there for 100% natural Dunlop latex although the flexibility of the designs may not be the same as the Sleeptek or the Greensleep (outside of Ideal who also carry latex mattresses that can be customized with individual exchangeable layers). Making specific suggestions in an area where personal preference plays such a large role is not a “rabbit hole” that I intend to enter. :slight_smile: This is partly for time reasons (it would take several hours per forum member to look in detail at every website and talk with individual retailers or manufacturers about whether what they carry would “fit” what each member is looking for) and partly because my goal is more to help people with “how” to choose than “what” to choose. I much prefer to limit my help to the “narrowing down” process to help eliminate the overwhelming number of worse choices but then leave the last half of the research which identifies the “best” choices up to each individual member here.

In the earliest days of the website before there was much traffic I offered a service that could help people on a more individual basis. It was based on an honor system where the cost would be $100 and I would spend an hour or so on the phone with them and then do the individual research in each area along with followup calls to help them choose the specific mattress and retailer that was “best” for them or at least narrow it down to a very small “final list”. If they agreed that the “savings” were more than the cost of the service and were happy with their purchase then they would pay the $100. If they didn’t there would be no charge. Even then … I quickly realized that the process was so time intensive that there was be no time available to continue the broader research that could help thousands of people all across North America or to even answer posts on the forum and if I continued doing this I would quickly become the bottleneck for the growth and development of the site so I quickly dropped it … lesson learned :slight_smile:

My “best” suggestion would be to use the layering you do best with in your testing as a guideline and then talk to the manufacturers or retailers that are most promising to you and tell them the specifics of the mattress you prefer and then ask them if they have or can make anything that they believe would be roughly comparable that would be worth testing.

[quote]A follow-up question on zoning and how it is done in practice. I feel like I would like to try it as I do constantly have the feeling that my shoulders in particular don’t sink in quite as far as I would like them too when on my back. I have seen the 7 and 5-zone pre-fabricated layers which you have indicated can be gimmicky, too complex for zone matching, etc.

How would a 3-zone layer typically be constructed? Is this a custom layer that a manufacturer needs to order, or would they make it themselves by putting together 3 parts to form a layer? And if so, how is this done? [/quote]

Zoning is a very interesting concept and in certain circumstances can be very helpful. The “challenge” is that the “best” zoning is just as individual as the “best” mattress. The difficulty with the zoning systems that are pre-fabricated or have more zones than 3 is that they may not match the body type of the person either in terms of individual firmness or zone spacing. In addition to this the individual zones of many of the prefabricated zoning systems are not much different from each other and are inside the range of the ILD variation of most Dunlop Latex itself. It’s not that they are “bad” (you can test them to make sure that they work for your body type) … but that they may not have the benefits that more customized or differentiated zones can have for those that need it. There are very few manufacturers that actually build custom zones.

Latex and other materials that have a very high compression modulus already have a form of “built in” zoning because they get firmer faster with deeper compression so a latex layer that is softer with initial compression will get firmer much faster with deeper compression and “stop” the heavier parts of the body that sink in more deeply faster than materials that don’t get firm as quickly with deeper compression. Late in particular also has great “point elasticity” which allows it to contour and compress under individual areas of the body rather than affecting areas beside the area of compression. This allows the use of softer layers that will “allow” the shoulders to sink in with less risk of sinking in too far with the heavier areas of the body such as the pelvis. The relative surface area and weight concentration of each part of the body also plays a role. The shoulders are much lighter than the pelvis but when they first contact the mattress they also have less surface area until you sink in enough so that the torso begins t make contact at which point the surface area increased rapidly and further sinking in is “stopped”. This is partly connected to the “ideal” thickness of the comfort layers.

Even with this though … with more difficult body types then zoning can be very helpful … especially in the center third of the mattress where the body weight is more concentrated. This allows for the use of softer comfort layers with less risk of the pelvis sinking in too far. In some cases other types of zoning (such as reverse zoning) can be used to compensate for unusual weight distribution, body types, or “special needs” and can also be very helpful. Zoned mattresses other than the prefabricated types are not commonly available on a local basis and where they are I would test them in person to make sure that the design of the zoning is beneficial for your body type and sleeping style or at least “not harmful” compared to non zoned designs. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here.

@ Lisa_Mocha,

Unfortunately the industry as a whole has become so focused on “marketing stories” that actual information about the materials themselves of the quality of the materials and components or people who have the knowledge and experience to help “educate” their customers has become the exception rather than the rule. This often leads people to “become” the experts rather than “find the experts” which involves a learning curve that can be daunting.

For those who have “enough” information to recognize the difference between retailers or manufacturers that are providing good advice and suggestions and who are comfortable talking about the quality of the materials in their mattress … and who also sell good quality and value mattresses … the learning curve and complexity is much less because they already know what you would otherwise have to learn.

Since the chain stores and mainstream retailers took over the mattress industry … it has become much more difficult to find better retailers or manufacturers in all the “noise” of constant advertising and for those who are determined to make more informed choices … it is much more complex than it was when meaningful information and knowledge was more common that it is today.

Hopefully the members here that take the time to learn “just enough” to make good choices or at least recognize the better retailers and manufacturers will be part of a longer term process of educating others as well that helps increase the market share of good merchants that sell better quality and value mattresses and focus on sales based on educating their customers more than on marketing tactics but it will be a slow process that takes time because the chain stores and major brands long ago replaced education with marketing.

Phoenix

Okay, thought I would come back and update on the minimal progress I have made. It has been tough getting out the past couple weeks but I did manage to make it out to Ideal Mattress Ltd over the weekend. The trip had a couple of pluses and minuses.

On the minus side, I was a little disappointed with the available selection of mattress on display. Essentially they only had 1 mattress available to test. It was dual sided so you could get two different feels, but it was essentially 3 layers. One side was 7" firm, 3" firm, 1" soft. The other side was 7" firm, 3"soft, 1" soft. All layers were Talalay latex. They did have another mattress with at bottom layer as 7" HD foam, but since I am looking only at all latex options it didn’t really factor into the visit.

On the plus side, I did get to try out their 7-zone layers. I must admit that I think I like the option. I know it may not be for everyone, but I could definitely feel the extra firmness under my butt (allowing my shoulders to sink in) when compared to other mattress and definitely think I will look for that option in my final decision.

Still trying to wrap my head around the various options. Not really sure that I notice the effect of the thickness of the layers yet - I’ve tested a number of combinations - 6/4, 7/3/1, 4/4/2. I am not really sure that I could say that I feel that much of a difference beween the various options and that the all feel quite good. My concern is that I am missing something in terms of how the various layer thicknesses interact after being in bed for a whole evening. Other than just a 10min in-store test.

Thanks!

@vram and @lisa,

For what it’s worth, I have purchased one of these style mattresses… I’d looked at sleeptek and green sleep, both in the more premium category as Phoenix says. We also made sure to get a matching foundation and top of the line mattress protector, and a number of beddings. I’m in Calgary, so different stores, but I’d imagine a similar experience. A green sleep happened to fit me and wife best.

While there was lower prices elsewhere or online (and assuming the mattress accomplishes the PPP for you), I have been very happy and well taken care of having bought a “premium” product from a local store, and would recommend it. It was well worth it for my wife and I, and we are very satisfied.

Hi vram,

The layer thicknesses are only one of several factors (including the firmness or softness of each layer and the many possible combinations of layering) that will affect how a mattress feels and performs so I would focus more on your testing rather than the specs or layer thicknesses then look to see what the layering of the mattress you liked best is.

I would also suggest using the testing guidelines in post #1 here because 10 minutes on a mattress is a little bit on the short side for testing a mattress.

Now that you have tested several mattresses you have some reference points to go by so I would call some of the other manufacturers and retailers on the Toronto list and let them know what you’ve tested so far that worked well for you and ask them if they have anything in all latex that they believe would also be worth testing. The more you do on the phone the less travel and testing time you will have to spend because you can do some narrowing down first based on your phone conversations.

Phoenix

Well… I had basically decided to go with flobeds as I liked the idea of the vzone and talalay.
Although more expensive than other on-line options ($3300 for king) , still less than the $4200-$5000 to buy locally. Still suffer from sticker-shock :slight_smile:

VRAM…FYI, we went to foamite in Vaughan yesterday and not convinced of the options there either. We thought about going to Ideal also but decided not to I’m confused enough already :blink:

My husbands preference is still to buy in Canada leaving us with sleeptek (euro 4), obasan in Ottawa (also sleeptek, but the house brand) or Greensleep. They all seem like great quality… At a premium price. I noticed that Obasan mattress also offer a zoned top layer… Not sure if this might be an option on the Sleeptek bed offered in TO.

Dn, thanks for the feedback. Which model did you purchase? Was it from The Mattress and Sleep co in Calgary? I’ve checked them out also:)

I continue to struggle with biting the bullet… So much $$ for a mattress, but sleeping well (hopefully!) will be worth it.
Flobeds, Greensleep, Sleeptec/Obasan… Will be one of these and I better decide before my husbands loses it,lol.

Indeed it was The Mattress and Sleep Company (tmasc). Since I snore so bad, I usually get kicked out into a diff room, so we ended up getting 2 beds. One king for our master and one twinxl for me in a different room. We got the green sleep Vicence, which is 3 layers each 3" thick of the green sleep latex, encased in their cotton/wool as I’m sure you’ve seen. We got the s-200 foundations, and the green sleep vasilo mattress protector. We had a great time with tmasc. I posted my experience here.

https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/great-purchase-experience

Note that we didn’t get the layers ‘perfect’ in round 1. I had thought soft / med / firm was the way to go, but after a few nights it became clear it was a bit too firm for me. I tried it that way for about 2 weeks to adjust. My wife did soft / soft / firm from the start and she loves it, and I’m trying that too now (and it’s made a huge difference!) That’s one place tmasc has been great - post sale service and support as needed. I know I’m super picky, so post sale service was a significant feature, and with the amount we were spending are looking for perfection. In fact, I’m trying a 3" sleeptek wool topper in a couple weeks once it arrives in addition to the latex softness changes.

Good luck with your search. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Thanks again Dn and Phoenix for your feedback:)

Dn, we did try 1 Greensleep mattress at Soma in TO. Can I tell you how much I loved the cover on it…pure coziness and luxury! Seems a shame to cover it up!
I can’t recall the model…perhaps it was the vicense or the dolcezza. It def. was more expensive than the top Sleeptek matress which was $4200.

Did you try the Sleeptec as well? We were told some people found the Greensleep to be a little more firm…not sure I could tell a big difference. For the Sleeptek euro 4, my side was soft/ soft/med and quite comfortable. (Husbands was soft/med/firm…I think)
Wonder how a flobeds mattress stacks up…there is certainly positive feedback about them on-line.

FYI, we tried a wool topper at another store and I really liked the feel of them. A king topper was going to run @ $1000 and we were advised they could pack down quite quickly and could possibly be 2-3 yrs and would need to be replaced. I’m certainly hoping to get away with not requiring one.
Have you by any chance heard of the Lanoodle topper by Cozypure? ( on-line) Again, lots of great reviews on this…
This topper does have me intrigued, but will wait to see how we fare with the mattress one we receive…if I can make a final decision,lol, on which one to go with!

VRAM…wishing you luck too with your continued search…maybe we’ll settle on the same thing:)

Hi Lisa_mocha,

[quote]Have you by any chance heard of the Lanoodle topper by Cozypure? ( on-line) Again, lots of great reviews on this…
This topper does have me intrigued, but will wait to see how we fare with the mattress one we receive…if I can make a final decision,lol, on which one to go with![/quote]

You can read a little more about my own thoughts and experience with Lanoodles topper in post #38 here and a forum search on lanoodles (you can just click this) will bring up more comments about it as well.

Phoenix

No additional progress to report from the weekend in terms of actual testing, but I do have some more questions/comments that have come as I continue to research this purchase.

So I think that I am getting very close to finding the range of layer configurations that work well for me. Definitely leading towards the firmer support layers with maybe a 1-2" softer layer on top. I have emailed Ideal Mattress Ltd back to see if I could get the specs on their firm, medium and soft layers that I tested last week. I am trying to not get too caught up in the technical specs, but I do find it difficult to compare mattresses when the descriptions are somewhat vague (and yes Phoenix, I realize that ILD’s can vary by type of latex and will even be different across the zones in the 7-zone layer…but just go with me here…my brain works on numbers).

Based on this understanding, I am also starting to look at the SleepEZ/Flobed options online. A big part of my PVE is going to be the quality of the finish. Assuming I get the layers right, a big part of my satisfaction is going to come from how luxurious the finished product feels. It seems like everyone uses the organic cotton covers. Any comments on the differences/feel of these two?

What is the point/value of an additional mattress topper like the Lanoodle or Cozypure? Do they just provide a different feel to having a soft comfort layer?

European slat foundations…worth it? Or one of those adjustable options that will never really be utilized?

[quote=“Lisa_mocha” post=25053]Thanks again Dn and Phoenix for your feedback:)

Dn, we did try 1 Greensleep mattress at Soma in TO. Can I tell you how much I loved the cover on it…pure coziness and luxury! Seems a shame to cover it up!
I can’t recall the model…perhaps it was the vicense or the dolcezza. It def. was more expensive than the top Sleeptek matress which was $4200.

Did you try the Sleeptec as well? We were told some people found the Greensleep to be a little more firm…not sure I could tell a big difference. For the Sleeptek euro 4, my side was soft/ soft/med and quite comfortable. (Husbands was soft/med/firm…I think)
Wonder how a flobeds mattress stacks up…there is certainly positive feedback about them on-line.

FYI, we tried a wool topper at another store and I really liked the feel of them. A king topper was going to run @ $1000 and we were advised they could pack down quite quickly and could possibly be 2-3 yrs and would need to be replaced. I’m certainly hoping to get away with not requiring one.
Have you by any chance heard of the Lanoodle topper by Cozypure? ( on-line) Again, lots of great reviews on this…
This topper does have me intrigued, but will wait to see how we fare with the mattress one we receive…if I can make a final decision,lol, on which one to go with!

VRAM…wishing you luck too with your continued search…maybe we’ll settle on the same thing:)[/quote]

Hi Lisa;

Basically we got the same advice as you. We had felt we wanted a touch firmer, and so were directed the Green Sleep route vs Sleeptek since some people find green sleep a tad firmer. Yes, we did try both sleeptek and green sleep and liked both. I’d guess if you tried a Green Sleep it was the Dolcezza (seems to be the flagship model they have people try). The vicence is very similar, 9" latex in vicence vs 9.5" in Dolcezza - slightly different layering. Mostly, we felt the Dolcezza had the topper which while excellent, we thought we could get a separate topper if we decided it was needed having tested the mattress alone first, and as a separate topper could replace it as needed (vs. having it built into the mattress cover), therefore getting the vicence. The ‘topper’ on the Dolcezza is basically a premium topper (soft latex + wool + some silk I believe). We felt the Sleeptek Classic 1000 /2000 /3000 toppers would give us choice if we needed to that, and having tried them in store to compare side by side in store felt very similar - hence trying the classic 2000 wool topper now (i.e. the $300-500 we saved on the vicence vs the Dolcezza is the value of the topper). The Classic 2000 is in the neighborhood of $1000 for the king… a bit less (or possibly somewhat less with the purchase of a bed if you get through the same company).

I’m a fan of wool, mostly because my last mattress had it (so I was told, never verified), and it fared well and was nice. Everything I’ve read says it packs about 30% assuming a high quality. Plus, several of the premium mattresses use it in their comfort layers, often along with latex, for that feel of plushness.

I’ll do a review of the Sleeptek Classic 2000 when I get it.

We also did the Green Sleep mattress cover - remarkably expensive, but it’s super luxurious. About $500 for the king. Really thick organic stretch knit fabric. It’s the vasilo. The other popular one is the St. Dormeir. If you get a chance, check them both out - I’d not have been able to imagine either of them without touching/seeing them.

Basically, I’ve accepted that my fate is to try pretty much every combination of latex and toppers I reasonably am interested in. I can see trying a talalay topper, different mixtures of latex, and different mixtures of latex with no topper or with a topper. I’m a bit OCD when it comes to comparing things… and (for better or worse), I’ve got enough $ that the relative costs of each ‘trial’ isn’t that huge a deal (also helps that we have 2x beds, and i’m trying this on a twinxl which is way less $$ than trying on a king). We’ve got a great base bed with the Green Sleep, so trying diff latex or diff toppers is pretty simple and a matter of trying to refine to perfection :slight_smile:

For what it’s worth, we also got good beddings. Most importantly, we got some pillows that accomplishes proper alignment… your mattress can have all the PPP dealt with, but you can screw up your neck alignment with an improper pillow. So we really went in wanting a ‘sleep system’, and not just a mattress system.

The sleepteks looked amazing to us also… it was really just the initial decision of more soft or slightly more firm, similar to what you saw, that we ended up with green sleep. My brother has an obasan (for a while they had a store in calgary). He and his wife swear by it.

I looked at the LaNoodle… my guess was that the noodles would move all around. I’m more interested in wool and latex that’s a bit more consistent. So far, I find wool a bit more of a ‘fluffy’ feeling, and latex a bit more of a smooth-but-pressure relieving feeling. I read somewhere, and it stayed in my mind, that wool is fluffy and absorbs you, and latex is soft but pushes back (since it’s elastic).

Good luck. I’ll let you know about the wool (arrives in about 1.5-2 weeks I’m told)

VRAM-I share your pain on option/info overload:)
I think for us, it’s still coming down to Flobeds, or Sleeptek. I really liked the Greensleep model we tried too and when I read dn’s feedback, I’d like to see if it was the vicense. From a $ perspective, Flobeds might come out on top. Shipping to Canada will be another $300-350, or we could drive the short distance to the border and ship to the Ups store in Buffalo ($99 shipping) and just pay the ON sales tax at the border. Decisions, decisions!
As you’ll see on the Flobeds site, their beds come with a 2’’ convuloted topper (soft) and I’ve read some reviews that Flobeds cover is better quality than SleepEz. Lots of great reviews on Sleepez mattresses, but like you, the feel of the bed is important to me.
(Although could get a lux mattress pad as the Greensleep one that dn has purchased. Really, once a protector goes on, you don’t feel the cover of the mattress anyways…)

Dn, would love to hear about the wool topper after you’ve received. Your beds(s) sound heavenly! (Even if you do get sent off to the snorers room, lol)
The Greensleep mattress cover des look wonderful. I did see the St Dormier cover at Elte last weekend… Am sure it works wonderfully, but can’t say I really liked the feel of the terry.( Maybe not so noticeable by the time sheets go on top??)

VRAM, It appears we’re having the same ‘fun’ :slight_smile:
I keep coming back to Sleeptek Euro 4 or Flobeds. Greensleep is appealing also, but it’s that little bit of add’l $$, even with the luxurious cover. Dn’s positive feedback on the vicense is keeping in my short-list, but I’d need to head back to Soma to try it out.
Flobeds certainly is best on price and great on-line reviews…just the risk of purchasing on-line and dealing with potential cross border exchanges that weigh in negatively, despite the wonderful customer service provided. So much easier to drive to a local store…
fYI, in case you haven’t spoken with Flobeds re shipping, the fee is @ $99 to US address and @ $300-350 to Canada.
We’ve shipped to a UPS store in Buffalo before ( we’re in Oakville so just 1 hr to the border) as it eliminates the risk of added brokerage fees. Would just need to pay the 13% ON sales tax…no duty as made in the US. ( I called Customs to verify)

I’ m with you in the look and feel of the cover being important to me, despite the fact that it will be covered with a mattress pad and sheets. I have to say that I did see the St Dormier pad and wasn’t wowed with the feel of the terry.

Dn, does the Greensleep vasilo pad look as pictured on the TMASC website? ( I think crib version)
I’ve seen pics on other website (natural sleep store) and it looks a little different.
Would also love to hear your thought on the wool topper one you receive it…I’m all for that cozy/ plush:)
Your bed (s) sound heavenly…even if you are banished to the snorers Ron,lol.

Happy shopping!

Hi Lisa_mocha,

We’re probably closer to the same track than you realize.

After not even being open to ordering online, I am slowly but surely making my way towards ordering a Flobed. The logic behind the decision is based on a couple of factors.

The biggest reason is that it seems to offer the best value for the configuration that I have found most comfortable. The two beds that I liked the most were the Sleeptek Euro 4 (4"/4"/2") and the Ideal (7"/3"/1"). The Flobed (3"/3"/3"/2") is very close to that and possibly offers some additional benefits:

  • Instead of having the 7" Firm support layer in the Ideal mattress Ltd, I am going to go with a 3" x-Firm and a 3" Firm as the bottom two support layers in the Flobed. This way I can have some more flexibility in tweaking the feel of the bed by being able to switch the two layers around.

  • The V-Zone is appealing to me. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Ideal mattress had the 7-zone thing going on and I actually found it quite comfortable. I have been a little concerned about getting the V-Zone right and dealing with a bunch of layer exchanges, but I spoke with Dewey on the phone and he said that they can include the additional components to make either V-Zone a Med/Firm combination…and at no extra charge. This is a big plus in terms of being able to have the ability to adjust the mattress and not have to worry about layer exchanges and cross-border issues.

  • The 2" convoluted layer works for me (in theory). It seems like it would be close enough the the 2" layer on the Sleeptek and the 1" layer on the Ideal mattress that it would provide the softness/pressure relief that I am looking for over top of a firm support layer. This, along with the V-Zone is what steered me towards Flobeds and not SleepEZ (even though they do seem to be a better “value”). I haven’t found the 3" comfort layer on other beds as comfortable as the 2" or 1".

So based on that, I am definitely leaning towards Flobeds at the moment. I have read quite a few of Phoenix’s comments around the risk of going with more layers and zoning and the challenge in getting it right. And it does concern me, especially since this is all based on theory and not any real testing. I recognize that I am making some pretty big assumptions about how different materials and layers will feel when put together. Having said that, I do tend to obsess about these things and am constantly tweaking/adjusting things. Having the ability to make these changes will bring a certain level of satisfaction and hopefully result in a great sleeping experience.

Will definitely do the shipping to Buffalo.

I have a call into Ideal trying to confirm their pricing. Depending on what they come back with that could be an influencing factor. To be honest though, I probably haven’t gone about the Ideal experience the right way. The interaction so far has been kind of spotty. The sales guy on the weekend was kind of weak and didn’t really add much value to the process. Also, with only the one model on the floor, it was tough to really do any comparisons. I should have called and tried to deal directly with Stan or Christina and hopefully have had a more productive visit. But I ended up with a few hours between running kids to an from activities and took my chances by going in.

Would definitely welcome any feedback on my logic.

Also interested in feedback on the foundation - the tweaker in me wants the Euro Slat option. The practical guy doesn’t think it will be worth the extra $200. Thoughts?

Same for the bed cover. I was going to go with the St. Dormier site unseen. Feedback here seemed good. Also, I don’t really have enough experience to know what my preference would be.

Thanks,
Van

I certainly like it the greensleep (both the Vicence and Dolcezza), but I’d have equally bought a sleeptek. The decision between the two was purely comfort (i.e. only consider the green sleep it if it’s amazing for you!). We started with the Vicence because we felt it was a bit more modular than the Dolcezza with respect to toppers and didn’t know if we wanted a topper in the first place.

Yes, the vasilo I got looks exactly like the one on the tmasc website, although obviously not a crib size. I’ll take a picture of one of mine and post. I looked at the natural sleep store picture, and mine does not look like their picture. Interestingly, I can’t find another vendor with the same pictures as tmasc, so I don’t know if there are different models or prints in the top fabric that can be ordered or something.

The vasilo is deep… it fits deep mattresses, but that does mean you need to tuck it in, so to speak, on less thick mattresses. Plus, they’ve left some room for shrinking in the wash, and we didn’t pre-wash it, so there is extra material that we tuck in. I consider this a feature, since when I get the wool mattress topper (or any other topper I try if another), I can put the topper under it too and protect the topper. But if you’re looking for a very snug fit then this doesn’t match that requirement. It doesn’t interfere with it’s use at all, but may change the aesthetics a bit I suppose.

I also note, the ‘organic cotton’ and ‘greensleep’ embroidered in the fabric can be seen through lighter colored or thin sheets (it’s by no means darky written, but my wife noticed it in near-white sheets). It doesn’t bother us at all, but just to be super detailed about our experience with it.

I’ll post pictures of the vasilo as I can.

yes, I’ll be ‘reviewing’ the sleeptek wool topper. I’m doing it on the twinxl first, which is where i sleep most of the time… then wife can test too, and I can swap out a bunch of combinations of latex and topper. I like the feel of latex, but think I might like some more ‘fluffy’ feeling better, especially sleeping on side. I’ll definitely post the wool review info and pictures.

I’ll be trying:

soft / med / firm / no topper - tried, too firm
soft / med / firm / with wool topper - to test

soft / soft / firm / no topper - tried, very nice, but sometimes think maybe I’d like more padding/softness)
soft / soft / firm / with wool topper - to test

soft / soft / med / no topper - to test
soft / soft / med / with wool topper - to test

Yes, I’m a perfectionist who likes a perfectly comfortable bed :wink:

And apparently, there’s an experimental ‘ultra soft’ green sleep latex being tested for durability right now in quebec, but not available and won’t be unless it passes their quality controls.