Need to exchange eco-gel bed. Help!

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
1

After searching this site, lots of research, and a great offer at a local store…I pulled the trigger on the Therapedic Eco Gel Paradise mattress set. It reminded me of the feel of the temperpedic cloud but more in my price range and the specs seemed right. However, the first night on my new bed I slept more horribly than I had been sleeping on my temporary Ikea foam 8 inch mattress.

The sink-in feel and support was great. In that regard the comfort was top notch. However, I woke up several times feeling an intense hotness between myself and the mattress. I was sweating and threw the covers off (I sleep with a light blanket). My parents have a Relax the Back bed and I never felt hot like that while sleeping in it. I’ve always used memory foam toppers and while I sometimes feel warm, I never had to get up and sleep on the couch because the hotness was just too much. I figure the hotness I feel is because the Paradise is soft and I sink into it so it envelopes me? It’s horrible. It’s very close to a rug burn feel. Not normal. The retailer suggested I walk all over the mattress to open the cells. I did this then tried it again. Same thing. It starts out wonderful and an hour later I’m sweating and hot. I’m so disappointed. I’m also realizing that I know more than the sales people (and the owner) at my little mom and pops shop where I bought the mattress (and that isn’t saying a whole lot).

I am only allowed to exchange this mattress at this retailer so I’m looking at stress-o-pedic latex mattresses. The other option is the serta iseries but I’ve read that they aren’t very good. At this point, I’m scared to try anything else with memory foam as it seems I chose one of the best with the cool gel and everything and it was a huge disappointment. Question: If the memory foam is farther down in the layers, will it make me hot? I’ve read so many posts and I still feel confused about all this. My only choices appear to be sress-o-pedic then iseries, paula dean, sertapedic (all serta brands I think), and temperapedic (which is out of my price range). HELP!

I will do anything to not sleep hot like that. It’s so horrible. It was a very cool night for Los Angeles. I even put a comforter between myself and the mattress to try and get away from the hotness and I could still feel it radiating through. Just terrible. I’m hoping the stress-o-pedic Christelle Latex Plush or Christelle latex pillowtop will be the answer. Do you know anything about these two latex beds and their specifications? Thank you so much for your help!

Cari

2

I had one more question to add. I noticed the eco-gel Blue Heaven has two layers of latex over the memory foam. I remember it was firmer when I laid on it. Would the latex over the foam and not sinking in so much make me sleep cooler? Here are the specs:

Blue Heaven

Our Blue Heaven 13" mattress has an extra layer of Talalay latex;
•2" Talalay Latex
•2" layer of Eco-based Gel Memory Foam
•2"-5# Hi Support Memory Foam
•1" Latex Enhanced Support Layer
•6"-1.8 High Density Foam

Thank you so much!

3

Or this one:

Blue Essence

Our Blue Essence 11" mattress includes an additional layer of high support memory foam;
•2" layer of Eco-based Gel Memory Foam
•2"-5# Hi Support Memory Foam
•1" Latex Enhanced Support Layer
•6"-1.8 High Density Foam

So basically, based on specs and the inquiries above, I’m wondering if you think the Blue Heaven or Essence would sleep cooler for me since I won’t be so sunken into them. Or do you think the stress-o-pedic latex bed (with polyfoam) would be better for me (I contacted the company to inquire about how much foam is over the latex) AKKKKK! Thank you for having this site. Seriously. Who would think it would be so stressful buying a bed?

4

Hi cari7440,

You can read about some of the many factors that affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress in post #2 here and as you mentioned memory foam and the softness of a mattress are two of the more common factors. Because latex is a more breathable foam and you won’t sink in quite as far, my guess is that it would likely be cooler for most people (but this would depend on some of the other factors as well).

The Blue Essence has 4" of memory foam on top so it wouldn’t likely be as “cool” as the Blue Heaven for most people.

I happen to like the “feel” of 2" or so of latex over memory foam because it provides a more resilient surface and you don’t sink into the memory foam as much but of course this is personal preference and and each person can have very different needs and preferences in terms of which mattress is the most suitable for them. Both of the Therpedic mattresses you are looking at use good quality materials and have no obvious weak links in the mattress.

Stress-O-Pedic is a mid size independent manufacturer (which generally means “better than average” value) but it would be important to know the layers of any mattress that you are considering and they may not be as transparent about their materials inside as the Therapedic mattresses you are looking at. Sometimes you will find that what someone calls a “latex mattress” only has a few inches of latex in it and knowing the layering is one of the most important parts of making a good buying decision and making meaningful comparisons between mattresses. Without this you would be making a completely blind purchase if you were to buy it and it wouldn’t be possible to make any meaningful comments about it.

It’s the job of every good retailer to provide you with this information about every mattress they sell.

Phoenix

5

Phoenix,

Thank you. I contacted both companies. So far, Stress-O-pedic didn’t even answer my question about the layering so I sent them another email requesting that information (wish I could actually TALK to a representative instead of this email back and forth). Therapedic just asked for the manufacturer code on the tag on the mattress. I wrote them back too asking them to attend to my general questions about their mattresses and requested talking to a real live person. Therapedic has Youtube videos that explain the layers, which is cool. We’ll see if they get back to me in a timely, informative way. I hope they do. I’m really leaning towards wanting to continue to try the Blue Heaven Eco Gel with the latex over the memory foam. Thanks for the information. I’ll let you know what happens. --Cari

6

Hi cari7440,

This should be the job of the retailer not the consumer but either way I am doubtful that Stress-O-Pedic will give you the details of all the layers in their mattresses … at least for the most part.

You can see details of the layering of the Therapedic ecogel mattresses here but with licensee brands like Therapedic that are produced by different independent manufacturers in different areas of the country there may be some variation in different areas.

Phoenix

7

Hi Pheonix,

Just an update: I had several email exchanges with Stress-O-Pedic and this was the information I received:

“The Chateau beds all have a encased coil unit that is about 6” tall. The coil sits on 1 ½" to 2" base foam. So the that would make up the first 8". Everything above that would be foam. I believe the Christelle Firm is 12" so it has 4" of foam on top. Also all of the Beds in the Chateau line come with a thin layer of Visco or Latex. Those are in the quilt or top of the Mattress under the FR (Fire Barrier). As for your Visco question, if anyone told me that they sleep hot, I would tell them not to sleep on Visco. "

It wasn’t good enough for me so I went to my retailer. He came through for me and got a representative from Stress-O-Pedic on the phone for me. Talking to the rep eased my mind and gave me faith in the company and their product. They were very accomodating. I settled on the Cashmere mattress set in the Chateu line. It has two layers of latex over high density foam with encased springs.

I tried out the Blue Heaven, but I liked the more pillowy feel of the Cashmere. I’m thinking maybe memory foam isn’t the best choice for me anyway. Also, the company (Therapedic) never replied to my repeated email requests for information (not very good service is you ask me).

In the end, the retailer owner really came through for me as well. He was knowledgable and seemed to earnestly want me to be happy (or maybe he didn’t want me to bring back another bed!) He gave me a really good deal too: Sleep In Mattress Burbank, CA. (they have stores in Encino and Tarzana as well).

I will give you a review of the Cashmere when I get an idea of how it sleeps. I’m crossing my fingers! Thanks for this great site to make the mattress mission a little less painful! Cari

Hopefully, the Cashmere will work out. It’s been stressful making this big of a puchase

8

Hi cari7440,

Stress-O-Pedic uses various combinations of foam in their top layers which are more complex but unfortunately even though they are likely better quality than other mattress manufacturers … when you don’t know the density of the top layers (if they are polyfoam or memory foam) or the type and thickness of any latex they use, then it is much more difficult to identify the potential weak link of the mattress which is usually in the comfort layers and you can’t make meaningful comparisons between them. To the degree that there are unknown layers in the mattress … you would be making a blind purchase based on trust that they were better quality with no way to verify it.

I normally don’t consider specific information about quilting layers that are in inch or so or less to be as important as knowing the density of the main comfort layers because the softening of a layer that is this thin and has already been compressed in the quilting would have much less effect on the overall feel and performance of the mattress … but knowing the density of the other 4" would be important to me.

So knowing the type and thickness of the latex in comfort layers that use latex would be important to me although all latex is generally better quality than polyfoam. The thickness of the latex that was included in the 4" of foam would reduce the amount of unknown polyfoam in the mattress comfort layers and the amount of foam that was more subject to softening and degrading more quickly and changing the comfort and support properties of the mattress.

High density polyfoam is not really a meaningful term without knowing what number they are using for high density (it can often mean as low as 1.5 lbs).

So to the degree you don’t know the density of any polyfoam (and to some degree the amount and type of the latex) you would be making a blind purchase with some risk attached but the amount of risk would depend on the thickness of the unknown layers and on how much foam softening would put you outside of your range of the balance between pressure relief and support that is ideal for you.

Hopefully it will be a good choice over the long term and the unknown materials are good quality but if your choice was within your risk tolerance for the use of unknown materials and the potential softening of unknown materials is not as important an issue for you … then all is well.

I’m looking forward to your initial feedback when you’ve had the chance to sleep on your new mattress for a bit but in the meantime … congratulations on your new mattress :slight_smile:

Phoenix

9

Thanks. I know I’m taking a bit of a chance. The layers on the top are Talalay Latex (is that how you say it?) 2 inches and then some other comfort layer I don’t remember except that there is no memory foam in the bed. I don’t know the density of the foam under it except that it is polyfoam and not memory foam.

The conversation I had on the phone was after the email coorespondance I sent you. The phone conversation was much more insightful but I can’t remember the exact details of the layer specifications.

What is the best density number for polyfoam? Hmmmm. I think I’m going to contact them again. Thanks so much for all the info!

10

Hi cari7440,

There really is no “best density” except to say that higher density will maintain the original properties of a foam for longer than lower density if all the other durability factors are equal (see post #4 here for more about the relative dirability of different materials and designs). Defining “best” always depends on the specific use of a material and on the many other factors involved and on the budget range you are working with. Best is always relative to all the tradeoffs that are most important to you and in a lower budget mattress may include lower quality foams than “best” in a higher budget range when what you are paying is part of what is important to you.

If the latex in your mattress is right on top (except for the quilting layer) … then this would be good news and it would increase the durability of the foam layers below it. Layers that are closer to the surface are more stressed with compression and this is where the durability of a layer is the most important. Thicker layers of latex would improve it even more. Once you are down into 1.5 lb polyfoam though … you are on the top end of the lower quality polyfoam range and 1.8 lb is at the bottom of the higher quality polyfoam range.

Phoenix

11

Hi,

I thought this might interest you. This is the response from the sales rep at Stress-o-pedic to my simple request for exact specifications of the Cashmere mattress. It took a few days and an additional email sent from my work email account to actually get this response. I am currently doing a 30 day sleep trial of the Cashmere and I LOVE IT. I know I jumped the trigger too early and trusted my retailer too much. Now I’m not sure what to do. I did write the rep back and tell him what I think of his response and said yes to having a rep call me. I hope they come through. I don’t have a lot of faith in their product at this point, no matter how comfortable it is. This is not good business from the VP of sales.

“Unless you make beds for a living the different types of Foam will mean
nothing to you. For that reason we don’t give the list of every layer out. I
can tell you that it’s all Reflex foam or 1.5 or better. I can also tell
you we use Quiltflex, Reflex, Etc. The Cashmere has a small layer of Puralux
Latex that is made using the Talalay process. Not sure what exactly you are
looking for but, I would be happy to have a Sales Rep give you a call if
that would help.”

Kevin Cornell
V.P. Sales
Stress-O-Pedic Mattress CO.

12

Hi can7440,

This unfortunately is a rather typical reply (and somewhat condescending) along the same lines as is provided by many manufacturers that don’t disclose the materials in their mattresses. The other main reason that many manufacturers use to justify non disclosure is that the information is “proprietary”.

While it’s true that there are many variables in the durability of a mattress depending on its design and on the thickness, type and positioning of the layers and the overall design and construction of the mattress … and it’s also true that the properties of each type and density of foam can vary (so similar density foams can be more or less costly depending on the formulation used and the foam properties that are being targeted) … it’s also true that the single biggest “apples to apples” factor in the durability of polyfoam and memory foam is its density and this information allows consumers to make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses. It also may be true that this type of information may not be well understood by most consumers but IMO that is no reason to withhold the information from those who understand its importance and relevance and have some ability to understand its meaning. The transparency of a manufacturer by itself also speaks to their desire to help consumers make more informed choices outside of just marketing information.

As a point of reference a well … Puralux is a blended latex (in the range of 20% - 50% natural latex and the rest synthetic latex) made with a continuous pour Dunlop method and is not Talalay at all. It is a good quality material and is poured in thinner layers (up to 3") and is a legitimately softer version of Dunlop latex made to compete with softer Talalay at a lower cost. While it is a good quality material … it is not made with the Talalay process.

Thanks for sharing your inquiry and their response with the forum … I appreciate it … even though I would have hoped for a more informative, “educational”, and transparent reply.

Phoenix

13

After I informed the retailer of the response I received from the VP of sales, I received a call from a sales rep at Stress-o-pedic. He gave me the exact specs for the bed layer by layer (all inner and outer materials). He was very accomodating and apologized for his colleague who he says is more of a “management guy.” I wish I could give you the exact specs but I was driving in my car and it was very detailed. The details, however, sounded good based on what I know from the information I’ve read here. I can tell you that the foam layers they use on the Cashmere are 1.8-2.0 if that will help people in their buying decisions. It also has actual Talalay (1 3/4 inches). Of course, that’s all I can remember exactly. Couldn’t tell you the precise layers. But I felt good about my purchase after I hung up in terms of the information I was given. Definitely felt more peace of mind. I should have asked my retailer to speak to his rep instead of emailing the company (that’s the only means of contacting the company through their website). It’s good to know that they WILL give people the exact specs. It’s all still a little confusing to me but I do feel better about my purchase and will keep you updated on the feel and wear of the bed for anyone else considering purchasing it. I will say that as of now, though firmer than what I’m used to or thought I wanted, the Cashmere is the best sleep I’ve had in a long time and after talking to John, I feel pretty good about my purchase and the company.

Thanks for all your advice and help Pheonix. This is such a great resource!! Cari

14

Hi can7440,

That’s great news … and it would give me a little more peace of mind as well :slight_smile:

Thanks for all the work you did and maybe it will break the ice and be one more small step in helping people (your retailer and Stress-O-Pedic) provide this type of information more easily when they are asked and understand its importance to educated consumers.

Persistance can sometimes pay … and you certainly showed some in this case!

I’m looking forward to any further updates you have the time to share over the course of time.

FWIW … I still have an old 2 sided Stress-O-Pedic in my home that is probably close to 15 years old and while the top layers have compressed and become firmer … it has been flipped regularly and they have worn evenly with no obvious soft spots and it is still in use with a topper for extra comfort for a heavy 15 year old young man who sleeps well on it :slight_smile:

I’m glad to see there is one more manufacture which can be added to the list of transparent manufacturers … there’s certainly not enough of them.

Thanks again for all your efforts.

Phoenix

15

Hi Phoenix and everyone,

I hope it’s ok to bump an old thread. I am unfortunately continuing my mattress journey and am also considering a Stress O Pedic.

The sales rep at my local LA Matress was one of the best I’ve dealt with in terms of asking me all the right questions about my sleep needs while guiding me to sleep systems and eliminating bad options for me. I was pleasenlty surprised since this is a local chain. I let him do his thing and he lead me to the Stress O Pedic Chateau line.

The mattress I’m looking at is $1000 Chateau Christelle “pillow top.” He was unable and unwilling to get me the layer information telling me the info doesn’t matter. I even told him if he contacted the manufacturer, I would buy from him. He didn’t, so I did and I found the following info:

Cotton cover
“Freudenberg” Fire Barrier (“Celestia?” Likely a rayon silicone fr)
Quiltflex Topper Foam - 3/4" (unknown density, probably 1.5)
19 ILD Talalay Latex - 1 "
1.8 lb REFLEX(r) Foam - 3.5"
621 Pocketed Coil 14 Guage - 8"

I can’t find much online about this brand but it seems as though there are no potential weak links in this product in particular. I’m mainly concerned about future indentations in the “pillow top.” And degradation of the edge support.

Is this product worth considering? It fits my PPP as far as I could tell on my 20-30 minutes on it. This shop doesn’t have a return policy, only an exchange, and I want to be secure in my choice.

Thanks

16

Alternatively, I’m considering a Bella Euro Top from PJ Sleep. It’s a 15.5" - 9" pocket coil, 3" of 3lbs low voc poly foam, 2" of 60 ild Dunlop and 1.5" of foam quilting up top. It was a very nice mattress and I spent a considerable amount of time in their showroom. Anyone in the LA area should highly consider stopping by.

17

Hi peep,

Welcome back to the forum :).

Thanks for the post. I moved to a new thread to highlight the product we are discussing.

Stressopedic is a well-known manufacturer on the west coast, with a good reputation in the industry. As I was looking for the Chateau Collection (details from their site are listed below) on the Stressopedic website, I am assuming the “pillow top” is the Latex Plush T/T unit. It’s too bad the retail sales associate, who you thought was very good, could not help with the specs. You being a well versed TMU member knew to go to the source and get the information.

Both the Freudenberg FR cover and the Quiltflex by FXI (formerly Foamex) have been around since the early/mid-2000s. Both well-known products and brands. Interestingly enough Stressopedic was the first manufacturer to use the Freudenberg FR solution back in 2005 - Furniture Today article.

I agree with your assessment that there seem to be no weak links as listed above. You have read the durability guidelines so we are on the same page. The Quiltflex foam is better than some commonly used polyester products in mattress quilts, so you will have some expected degradation over time, but nothing outside the acceptable standards. The pocketed coils are also good quality and edge support seems to be good as well. Take as much time as you need, and let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks again for posting, we look forward to your update.

Phoenix

Product Info as listed on Stressopedic website:
Christelle Latex X-Firm T/T
Comfort Layers:
High-Density Polyurethane, Latex

[indent]Innerspring:
616 FE Marshall Unit
FOUNDATION:
No Sag/No Sway Custom Engineered Support System
Ultra Premium Buckskin Suede Border[/indent]
Christelle Latex Plush T/T

[indent]Comfort Layers:
High-Density Polyurethane, Latex
Innerspring:
546 FE Marshall Unit
FOUNDATION:
No Sag/No Sway Custom Engineered Support System
Ultra Premium Buckskin Suede Border[/indent]
Christelle Latex P/T

[indent]Comfort Layers:
High-Density Polyurethane, Latex, Quilt-Flex ®
Innerspring:
546 FE Marshall Unit
FOUNDATION:
No Sag/No Sway Custom Engineered Support System
Ultra Premium Buckskin Suede Border[/indent]

18

Thank you, Phoenix. The model I’m considering is the last on this list, which is the P/T if that makes any difference.

Do you know much about the PJ Sleep/Ivy Organics Bella Eurotop mentioned above? The materials seem high quality and the staff there were very patient and knowledgeable. They seemed genuinely happy to have me there.

I intend to test out both mattresses again before making my choice but don’t want to choose poorly because they are both non-refundable.

19

Hi peep,

You are very welcome. Thanks for the clarification about the StressOpedic, my post is still relevant for all three options.

Regarding the Ivy Bella Euro Top, I am not sure which model it would be but I assume its the first one listed on this page - https://www.ivyorganics.com/mattresses-1-2-2/.

It is a great idea to try both of these mattresses again, I can’t really comment on the specifics of the mattress, as they don’t list specific densities or ILD’s on this hybrid mattress. I don’t have any reason to believe this mattress would have any wink links, and they use certified organic products for the cover and the latex. You may also wish to ask about the pocketed coils support system to see who the manufacturer is.

Not having the ability to return the mattress if things do not turn out as well you may hope for certainly adds some pressure to get things right. I certainly agree with you and would make sure to take your time while you are testing the mattresses again. Remember there are two main functions of a mattress:

Pressure relief in all your sleeping positions and in all the pressure points of your body (most commonly hips and shoulders) … especially on your side if this is one of your sleeping positions.

Posture and alignment in all your sleeping positions. This is about making sure that your spine is in its neutral alignment when you are completely relaxed on the mattress (which would normally involve at least 15 minutes on the mattress to “simulate” the pre-sleep state when your muscles “let go”).

“Specs” about each person’s body type and sleeping position are an important part of how each person interacts with a mattress but there are many other variables as well. There are many different types of layering combinations that can perform equally well for people of a certain height and weight and sleeping style so the most “accurate” way to “fit” a mattress to each person is to work with a knowledgeable local person who has the experience and knowledge to help you make the most suitable choices in “real time” and in person. There are some general weight and height guidelines here and some general guidelines about sleeping positions here and some information about how different types of layering can change and affect these guidelines in this section of the site but these are general guidelines and starting points only. I’d certainly pay attention to what your body tells you during the side-by-side testing of your finalists and certainly the help of the “patient and knowledgeable” staff who can help you make the best choices much more than any fancy design or recommendation of a specific mattress based on what I call “theory at a distance”. They would also have a large customer base of people who have purchased the specific mattresses they sell which can be used as a reference point.

There is more information about how to test support/pressure relief in step 4 of the mattress tutorial.

Good luck… I’ll be interested in learning about your final decision.

Phoenix