Natural/Organic, VOCs, Pillows and otherwise

[GrandMasterJ]

So, looking for more information on a few things, one being pillows for a sufferer of dust allergies but also with a concern on Volatile Organic Compounds.

I read through Phoenix’s “Your Sleeping Style, Preference, and Statistics” page (by the way, this link no longer works: themattressunderground.com/research/basic-information/your-style-preferences-and-statistics/natural-vs-synthetic.html) and to quote a section of it:

Do not believe that any polyurethane or memory foam … even those with “soy bean” or “castor oil” polyols used to replace a small portion of the petrochemical ingredients are in any way natural. They are not. In the same way SBR while completely safe to use is also not a natural substance in a blended latex.

This leads me to a concern about what types of pillows are options for allergy sufferers (this rules out feathers and down) who are concerned about the indoor air quality of their homes and the VOCs spewing from our, apparently, lethal upholstery, mattresses, etc. Is natural latex (shredded or otherwise) a viable alternative? Does shredded have the similar feel to feather/down pillows? Do these types of pillows have no or low VOC emissions? I read about a polyester pillow and then read how bad polyester is apparently for you (health-wise).

I was looking at this site: http://www.thecleanbedroom.com/ and specifically this pillow drew my eye: Latex | Pillows | Bedding Or something in the Natura line: http://www.thecleanbedroom.com/Natural_Bedding/Pillows/Natural_Latex/Naturalatex_DreamMate_Pillow_Organic_Series.htm Really quite expensive, but I only need a standard pillow and the 20% sale will help.

The site itself has good ratings on Amazon as a reseller, however, I find little information on these types of pillows. Can anyone make suggestions regarding the smell, allergy issues, VOC output, and feel of “natural/organic shredded latex” pillows? My ideal here would be something with a feather-feel or gel-feel and support for a side/back sleeper.

While on the subject of VOCs and the above quote, Select Foam, from whom I recently purchased the Grandis-HD memory foam mattress, purports “our mattresses emit no VOCs” and “our mattress have the lowest VOC emissions I’ve ever heard about”; two rather different statements. I wasn’t able to get a confirmation that their mattresses are 100% soy-based foam, so is there a significant quantity of petroleum-based foam(visco-elastic or base/support layers) making up these mattresses? They have switched to an organic cotton ticking and use a wool layer as their fire retardant, both of which are good steps toward reducing unnecessary chemical components.

My allergies in almost every category are “very high” with a few “moderate” according to an allergy test, however I do not possess allergies to latex.

Thank you for anybody’s input in advance.

[phoenix]

Hi GrandmasterJ,

I read through Phoenix’s “Your Sleeping Style, Preference, and Statistics” page (by the way, this link no longer works: themattressunderground.com/research/basic-information/your-style-preferences-and-statistics/natural-vs-synthetic.html)

The link is from an old section of the site that has since changed but I can’t find it on the page. Could you let me know where you found it so I can change it to the current page.

This leads me to a concern about what types of pillows are options for allergy sufferers (this rules out feathers and down) who are concerned about the indoor air quality of their homes and the VOCs spewing from our, apparently, lethal upholstery, mattresses, etc. Is natural latex (shredded or otherwise) a viable alternative? Does shredded have the similar feel to feather/down pillows? Do these types of pillows have no or low VOC emissions? I read about a polyester pillow and then read how bad polyester is apparently for you (health-wise).

This would really depend on whether you were comfortable with the testing that has been done on the material. In most cases … North American foam has been CertiPur tested for offgassing and harmful substances and with latex almost all the latex you will encounter … synthetic, natural, or blended … has been OekoTex tested (which is a more stringent test) or tested to other similar testing criteria such as Eco-Institut.

I would keep in mind that allergies and toxicity or sensitivity to certain chemicals can be different things. In terms of “feel” … shredded latex can be a good choice for those who want to “scrunch up” their pillow when they change positions or who want a little bit less resilient “feel” than a solid latex pillow. I personally have no concerns with any latex in terms of VOC’s whether it is synthetic or natural but of course there are many people who prefer 100% natural rubber based on principal alone regardless of its relative safety. Most people would also be comfortable with polyfoam or memory foam that has been CertiPur certified but once again each person may be different and some people who are unusually sensitive can sill react to materials that are generally “safe” for others. Post #2 here and the links it contains is a good starting point for those who want to do more research into the many conflicting claims and information about different materials in terms of safety, green, natural, or organic claims so that they can answer the question of “how safe is safe enough for me?” but this is a very complex and often confusing subject with no clear answers in many cases so each person will need to use their own best judgement about the materials they are most comfortable with.

The site itself has good ratings on Amazon as a reseller, however, I find little information on these types of pillows. Can anyone make suggestions regarding the smell, allergy issues, VOC output, and feel of “natural/organic shredded latex” pillows? My ideal here would be something with a feather-feel or gel-feel and support for a side/back sleeper.

You can read more about the typical smell of different types of latex in post #2 here and about latex allergies in post #2 here and about the effect of latex on dust mite allergies (which are the most common household allergy) in post #2 here. All the latex you are likely to encounter is OekoTex certified (or in some cases other certifications) for VOC’s but you can always check for the certifications for the latex used in any product. “Feel” is subjective and relative to each person … especially with pillows. There is more information about pillows in the pillow thread here.

While on the subject of VOCs and the above quote, Select Foam, from whom I recently purchased the Grandis-HD memory foam mattress, purports “our mattresses emit no VOCs” and “our mattress have the lowest VOC emissions I’ve ever heard about”; two rather different statements. I wasn’t able to get a confirmation that their mattresses are 100% soy-based foam, so is there a significant quantity of petroleum-based foam(visco-elastic or base/support layers) making up these mattresses? They have switched to an organic cotton ticking and use a wool layer as their fire retardant, both of which are good steps toward reducing unnecessary chemical components.

All mattresses emit VOC’s (even fruit emits VOC’s) so there is no such thing as a mattress foam that emits no VOC’s that are the same as background levels. It’s really a matter of whether the VOC’s are harmful and if they are manufacturerd in North America or the materials are CertiPur certified then most people would be comfortable with the amount of VOC’s that are emitted. There is also no such thing as a foam that is 100% soy based and you can read more about foams that have replaced a percentage of the polyols (one of the two main chemicals used in polyfoam and memory foam) with plant based derivatives in post #2 here.

Phoenix

[GrandMasterJ]

The link is from an old section of the site that has since changed but I can’t find it on the page. Could you let me know where you found it so I can change it to the current page.

Sure, it’s found as a link near the bottom of this page:

Your style, preferences, and statistics - your preferences

All mattresses emit VOC’s (even fruit emits VOC’s) so thre is no such thins as a mattress foam that emits no VOC’s that are the same as background levels. It’s really a matter of whether the VOC’s are harmful and if they are manufacturerd in North America or the materials are CertiPur certified then most people would be comfortable with the amount of VOC’s that are emitted. There is also no such thing as a foam that is 100% soy based and you can read more about foams that have replaced a percentage of the polyols (one of the teo main chemicals used in polyfoam and memory foam) with plant based derivatives in post #2 here.

So, should I have any cause for concern that Select Foam is not Certipur certified(assuming I wish to keep the harmful VOC levels inside my home low)? How does Relief Mart (Tempflow) manage to bring their VOC levels to negligible amounts?

[phoenix]

Hi GrandMasterJ,

[quote]Sure, it’s found as a link near the bottom of this page:
www.themattressunderground.com/mattresse...our-preferences.html[/quote]

Thank you! … the link is corrected

I thought I had checked all the links on the main pages of the site but I’ll have to go through them once again to see if there are any others.

So, should I have any cause for concern that Select Foam is not Certipur certified(assuming I wish to keep the harmful VOC levels inside my home low)? How does Relief Mart (Tempflow) manage to bring their VOC levels to negligible amounts?

The foam that Select Foam uses is made by a North American foam manufacturer that is CertiPur certified so it wouldn’t be a concern of mine no. CertiPur certification of a mattress manufacturer is a costly process so there are many mattress manufacturers that aren’t CertiPur certified that use CertiPur certified foams.

You can see some of my comments about Relief Mart in post #9 here. They use CertiPur certified foam in all of their mattress lines except for the Tempflow line which have been tested by Greenguard to a higher standard than CertiPur. They will provide the results of their tests to any of their customers who ask for them. In their case they submitted and tested their foams on their own initiative and expense because of Dr Rick’s personal commitment to low VOC’s and the manufacturer of the foam didn’t have any certifications even though they are producing a memory foam that is made from MDI and has lower levels of VOC’s than most of the memory foam made in the country that is CertiPur certified.

Phoenix

[budgy]

Probably harder to find the right pillow than it is the right mattress. I do have some basic guidelines that I use when recommending pillows that perhaps could be of use to you.

Regarding chemical concerns and allergies; there is little to no guidelines in place regarding this use of this term. Polyester pillows are always labelled hypoallergenic and are known to be one of the worst pillows to use for those that suffer from seasonal allergies, hayfever or asthma. Technically people can be allergic to just about anything (some people are allergic to sunlight) although a lot of people also get very allergic like reactions to certain families of products that they attribute to allergies however many times are not. For instance down fill pillows many people believe they are allergic too, in reality most people that claim this are just more sensitive to dust mites than the average person. Most ‘down’ filled pillows are also filled mostly with feathers which do not breathe like down does and this is what creates an environment that is conducive to a lot of bacteria and dust mite growth. If a pillow does not breathe well this is a major concern because humidity from your head will build up in the pillow, dust mites contrary to popular belief do not actually feed on your dead skin cells. They feed on bacteria that live on your dead skin cells. The more humidity, the better the bacteria does and the better the dust mites do.

So I think you are on the right path looking for a natural pillow, not to mention trying to avoid a lot of chemical exposure if you can considering you are breathing right off the pillow itself.

I hope I don’t sound like too much of an advocate for down fill pillows I will admit I am biased I believe they are the best to sleep with, but shredded natural latex fills (price difference in a pillow between all natural and synthetic blend is usually negligible) is a great fill, it at least gives you some of the flexibility of the down albeit with more bounce/support factor. I also believe that a truly natural rubber/latex foam pillow will reduce allergens more than blended latex products due to higher natural protein contents in the foam. It is the protein in natural latex that fights off the growth of most types of parasites.

Alternately you could look at wool filled types of pillows however I have never been a personal fan of them (while many do love them) they are not nearly as flexible and tend to have a very firm feel to them.

Thank you Phoenix for elaborating on the details about polyurethane foams and any natural claims, its not to say there are not good quality options in those materials but its really important you get what you want and are not mislead by a lot of these ‘natural’ claims.

[DahliaM]

Hi budgy,

Thanks for your comments; that was an interesting point about the difference between down and feather pillows for allergen-sensitive people. Do you think you could expand a little as to why you think down fill pillows are the best to sleep with? I’m curious, having never tried a down pillow.

I am a personal fan of wool fill pillows. Wool bolas pillows have little puffs of wool instead of wool batting, and are pretty flexible and soft.

[Clawdia]

I have more allergies than anyone could shake a stick at (including sunlight!), but my down pillows are some of my favorite possessions and have never caused a problem. I’ll admit I’m a pillow snob - I think to be called a “down” pillow, pillows have to contain no less than 75% down (with the remainder being feathers) - and I’ve had good luck with down pillows from Downlite, among other sellers. I always buy white goose down, as opposed to grey goose down or duck down, and am always on a perpetual search for the closest thing to a perfect pillow that I can find.

I sleep on either Tencel or bamboo sheets, and have found that Tencel pillowcases seem to keep me from sweating at night. They always feel cool, too, which keeps me from doing the repeated pillow-flip during the night.

When I got a Dunlop mattress last month, I got four latex pillows for half price at the same time - they’re great for propping up in bed to read, or when my back hurts sitting on the couch, but not so great for sleeping to me. I hated the feel of the shredded latex pillows that the same store was selling. Pillows are such an individual preference - my husband has always said he could sleep with any pillow, but his face lit up when he tried the latex pillow and he loves his. He says they feel like foam pillows felt when he was a child (we’re in our 60s), so after all these years he once again has pillows he loves. The pillows I love are my down pillows. Like I said, though - everyone is different.

[budgy]

Hello Dahlia,

I like Clawdia am definitely a pillow snob, in my case I call myself a ‘man-princess’ haha. Pretty much every pillow other than almost pure down hurts the bones in my ears, I also need to have my arm underneath my pillow to truly feel comfortable which automatically makes almost any pillow far too supportive and harsh to sleep with. High quality down fills have more ‘loft’ than any other material out there and are far more delicate on the body, they also work in the widest range of sleep positions due to their flexibility.

And yes in Canada legally the pillow must contain more than 75% down to be labelled a down pillow, but there are a lot of places that stretch the truth and blatantly lie about their down fills. The one thing about down that most people will not like is the cost, doing it right is definitely not cheap.

http://downmark.com/consumer_information/fraud.htm

Check out this website for some really great info on down products and the industry.

http://downmark.com/consumer_information/down_feather_quality.htm

That being said I know that down is not for everyone.

Good mention about the puff-wool pillows as well, I also sell these pillows and if someone buys wool that is what I recommend, particularly pillows that can be unzipped so you can add/remove fill if need be to adjust the pillow to your own specific needs.

[carpetdenim]

I’m in no way connected to this company or anything, fyi, but a friend told me about these and swears by them. When I upgrade beds (why I’m here looking around) I may get a pair.

https://www.amazon.com/Buckwheat-Pillow-Organic-Premium-Queen/dp/B007MI2L1Y/ref=pd_sim_hg_4

[GrandMasterJ]

Lots of good info here, thanks!

I did take a look at those buckwheat pillows before making this thread but was turned off when people said they were as heavy as a bag of sand and “loud” (which, honestly, I was actively searching for thinking they might be with all those hulls in there). As is, I sleep with ear plugs to keep the noise out so a pillow that is “loud” would be a no-go. The noise would conduct through the jaw to the ears when you have that kind of direct contact. I feel like I’m being picky turning down a pillow for being “loud.”

I’ll take a look into down. My interest in shredded latex, however, was because it was was anti-microbial but should feel similar to a feather/down pillow.

How does down do on the accretion of bacteria and dust/dust mites? I know dust is a decently heavy allergy of mine and run an air purifier in the room I sleep in.

[phoenix]

Hi carpetdenim,

I’m in no way connected to this company or anything, fyi, but a friend told me about these and swears by them. When I upgrade beds (why I’m here looking around) I may get a pair.

You can read a few comments about buckwheat pillows in the pillow thread in post #11 and #13 here and in in post #23 here. They are quite unusual compared to most other pillows

Phoenix

[budgy]

Down if cleaned properly retains most of the natural oils which are very efficient at repelling moisture, and really high fill power downs are the most breathable fills you can get, your body vapour passes right through the pillow and very little of it actually gets absorbed. You can also get dust mite proof cotton pillow protectors that you can routinely wash with your pillowcases to keep them as hygienic as possible. Realistically if they are done correctly they likely won’t be a problem. Definitely look for the ‘downmark’ label at a minimum.

[GrandMasterJ]

@budgy

Down if cleaned properly retains most of the natural oils which are very efficient at repelling moisture, and really high fill power downs are the most breathable fills you can get, your body vapour passes right through the pillow and very little of it actually gets absorbed. You can also get dust mite proof cotton pillow protectors that you can routinely wash with your pillowcases to keep them as hygienic as possible. Realistically if they are done correctly they likely won’t be a problem. Definitely look for the ‘downmark’ label at a minimum.

Hi Budgy,

What are some high quality down pillow manufacturers to look at? You state “downmark” at a minimum, but what should be higher criteria to look at as well? Thanks.

[MattressToGo]

I’ve been through two cervical surgeries and also had quite a bit of experience with different pillows. Regarding the “latex down” pillows - they do behave much like a regular down pillow. They’re very scrunchable. However, unlike true down pillows, they provide a more buoyant and supportive feel and do allow you to relax a bit easier in the lower cervical / upper thoracic region. This is due to the rubber in latex having a more supportive characteristic than a down/feather combination, even something with a high fill power. I used to have a normal latex pillow with a down pillow stacked on top when I slept on my side. Now I use a thicker “latex down” pillow alone, and can manipulate the thickness for my side or back. Your personal sleeping pattern and somatotype/anatomy will dictate pillow thickness, as well as the type of mattress upon which you sleep - match the pillow with both you and your mattress.

Here’s what I use - not an endorsement as I’m sure you can find many nice ones out there.

Jeff Scheuer
Mattress To Go

[budgy]

Certain companies also just simply construct the pillows much better than others. I have sold a lot of different brands, I am really biased towards St. Geneve (based in Richmond BC). They have the best pillow design with all internal seams so you can machine wash and dry the whole pillows without any down leaking out. They have a big range in price but a few hundred bucks for a good pillow is sort of typical with them.

Northern Feather is another good one, so is Dania Down.

I could write a small book about down products but the fill power and the fabric type used is the most important thing for a pillow. For duvets it gets much more complicated.

I definitely agree with Jeff about latex being more supportive, but yeah its to each their own. Most pillows for me actually give too much support. But the shredded latex fills are one of the only other kinds of pillows that I actually enjoy sleeping with

Buckwheat pillows I actually brought one in to test it out and no one liked it. They are incredibly firm on top of being very heavy and noisy. If I was in a pillow fight I am pretty sure I could kill someone with one of those lol.

[GrandMasterJ]

@budgy

Certain companies also just simply construct the pillows much better than others. I have sold a lot of different brands, I am really biased towards St. Geneve (based in Richmond BC). They have the best pillow design with all internal seams so you can machine wash and dry the whole pillows without any down leaking out. They have a big range in price but a few hundred bucks for a good pillow is sort of typical with them.

Northern Feather is another good one, so is Dania Down.

I actually found and mildly researched St. Geneve earlier today. Also saw pillows (Eiderdown) of theirs ranging up to $1000 for a pillow! (think it was King, but still!) I’ll take a look at the other two.

I could write a small book about down products but the fill power and the fabric type used is the most important thing for a pillow. For duvets it gets much more complicated.

Had my first experience with fill power today as well. Medium firmness would be 800 loft or loft just affects the durability? It appears you can buy one good down pillow and have it last several lifetimes, though, which is the kind of quality I tend to shop for (buy quality once, never have regrets).

I definitely agree with Jeff about latex being more supportive, but yeah its to each their own. Most pillows for me actually give too much support. But the shredded latex fills are one of the only other kinds of pillows that I actually enjoy sleeping with

I was hoping shredded latex would give me the feel I was hoping for at a lower cost than down, but I doubt the longevity is the same if quality down lasts for generations. I’ve never slept on a true down and didn’t realize the difference from feathers until your posts.

Buckwheat pillows I actually brought one in to test it out and no one liked it. They are incredibly firm on top of being very heavy and noisy. If I was in a pillow fight I am pretty sure I could kill someone with one of those lol.

Well, at least you’d build upper body strength in the process!

@MattressToGo

I’ve been through two cervical surgeries and also had quite a bit of experience with different pillows. Regarding the “latex down” pillows - they do behave much like a regular down pillow. They’re very scrunchable. However, unlike true down pillows, they provide a more buoyant and supportive feel and do allow you to relax a bit easier in the lower cervical / upper thoracic region. This is due to the rubber in latex having a more supportive characteristic than a down/feather combination, even something with a high fill power.

Jeff, what about heat retention in the shredded latex; do they breathe as well? How about longevity of the latex? Lastly, would they be a good support for a side sleeper? As is now, I feel I have to put my arm under my pillow to get the support I need when on my side.

[dndndn]

@GrandMasterJ

If you saw a St Geneve Eiderdown pillow, king size, for $1000, that’s a steal. I’ve seen it closer to the $3-5k price

Fill power has little to do with firmness… They just add more or less down to achieve firmness. Fill is a measure of quality/durability.

800+ fill is premium. I once read eiderdown is 1200 fill, but don’t know the accuracy of that.

I have a st Geneve Lajord, queen firm myself (I paid about $400 at tmasc). I have it in the st. Dormier pillow protector.

In addition to the st Geneve website, I’ve found the down & feather company to have good info, one link being:

Down vs Feather: How to Choose - Down & Feather Co.

And the tmasc.ca website also helpful (although closely related to st. Geneve)

White Goose Down Duvets & Comforters Canada

[GrandMasterJ]

@"dn" post=25556

If you saw a St Geneve Eiderdown pillow, king size, for $1000, that’s a steal. I’ve seen it closer to the $3-5k price

Either I was mistaken at what I was looking at or the website was a false one. I’ll have to check my history at work. EDIT: It looks like the James Bay goose down pillows were running these prices. Also, it appears James Bay goose down is legally not allowed to be shipped outside of Canada according to Tmasc?! Well, now I want one!

Fill power has little to do with firmness… They just add more or less down to achieve firmness. Fill is a measure of quality/durability.

800+ fill is premium. I once read eiderdown is 1200 fill, but don’t know the accuracy of that.

How long can you expect an 800-900 fill pillow to last? According to some of the stuff Budgy linked that I read, you can expect the [strike]eiderdown[/strike] James Bay pillows from St. Geneve to last generations if cared for.

[quote]
I have a st Geneve Lajord, queen firm myself (I paid about $400 at tmasc). I have it in the st. Dormier pillow protector.

In addition to the st Geneve website, I’ve found the down & feather company to have good info, one link being:

Down vs Feather: How to Choose - Down & Feather Co.

And the tmasc.ca website also helpful (although closely related to st. Geneve)
http://www.tmasc.ca/st-geneve-duvet-pillow-fillings.html[/quote]

Are you a side sleeper? It looks like the St. Geneve Lajord (much more affordable, but still pricey for a pillow) is mature goose down. From the links I read earlier, this appears to be good down to use also.

Maybe a longshot, but do you know quality retailers for down pillows for your U.S. neighbors?

[dndndn]

[quote=“GrandMasterJ” post=25561][quote=“dn” post=25556]

If you saw a St Geneve Eiderdown pillow, king size, for $1000, that’s a steal. I’ve seen it closer to the $3-5k price
[/quote]

Either I was mistaken at what I was looking at or the website was a false one. I’ll have to check my history at work.
[/quote]

This is the link I know and the basis for my info:
http://www.tmasc.ca/goose-down-pillows/st-geneve-eiderdown-cotton-pillow.html

Fill power has little to do with firmness… They just add more or less down to achieve firmness. Fill is a measure of quality/durability.

800+ fill is premium. I once read eiderdown is 1200 fill, but don’t know the accuracy of that.

How long can you expect an 800-900 fill pillow to last? According to some of the stuff Budgy linked that I read, you can expect the eiderdown pillows from St. Geneve to last generations if cared for.

No idea myself… I’m new into down, only a bit further than you it seems. The extent of my down knowledge comes from tmasc.ca, st Geneve, the down and feather company, and some miscellaneous googling about eiderdown and down.

[quote]

I have a st Geneve Lajord, queen firm myself (I paid about $400 at tmasc). I have it in the st. Dormier pillow protector.

In addition to the st Geneve website, I’ve found the down & feather company to have good info, one link being:
Down vs Feather: How to Choose - Down & Feather Co.

And the tmasc.ca website also helpful (although closely related to st. Geneve)
http://www.tmasc.ca/st-geneve-duvet-pillow-fillings.html[/quote]

Are you a side sleeper? It looks like the St. Geneve Lajord (much more affordable, but still pricey for a pillow) is mature goose down. From the links I read earlier, this appears to be good down to use also.

Yes, I’m a side sleeper. I have the firm specifically to get enough loft for side sleeping. I find it very comfortable, and it doesn’t bunch up like wool. I disliked shaved latex…having tried a sleeptek and I believe a zedbed one.

I did find the down one too poofy, so the st dormier keeps it a bit less so. I find a slight odor with the down, but having worked with tmasc and st Geneve they think it’s normal and I should see it dissipate. I found the odor most noticeable as it gets slightly warm and humid from sleeping on it (not damp or moist, but less dry… I don’t sweat abnormally at night). It seems to be going away slowly, or I’m just ignoring it / not noticing now.

I’m not 100% sold on down being especially that clean from allergens, but it might be… I really don’t know… It does have a couple advantages. First, it’s super soft and pillowy, which is amazing. Especially the high loft stuff. Second, the ticking the pillow is made from is apparently dust mite proof from st Geneve. Third, down (unlike most other materials) is machine washable in a way that would destroy many allergens (I.e. High temperatures) and is supposed to rejuvenate the down somewhat, allowing it to ‘last for generations’ as you wrote, and to remove allergens and keep clean. You need to do some basic things to wash properly, so follow the manufacturer recommendations there.

That said, the st Geneve website has a few interesting distinctions I don’t understand. Some pillows are ‘guaranteed hypoallergenic’ (laroche) and others are ‘guaranteed hypoallergenic for 5 years’ (Lajord). So, at best, the manufacturer who I’ve come to trust as being high quality and useful reference is only standing behind the hypoallergenic statement for 5 years on the pillow I have. In other readings, down may have been among the poorest for collecting allergens, though as has been noted a high quality down pillow will be hugely different than a low quality pillow, as will dust mite proof ticking/ pillow protector.

All said, I don’t really have allergies that bad so that’s a non issue for me… I bought it because it was amazingly comfortable (and continues to be so).

[quote]
Maybe a longshot, but do you know quality retailers for down pillows for your U.S. neighbors?[/quote]

Not really… I mostly have come to trust tmasc myself. The down and feather company had info that I found consistent with other reputable sources. One company I came across, which is maybe the one Clawdia recommended, would even take your pillow back for down reconditioning… That stood out to me as a company prepared to back the statement that their high quality down should last a long time by taking care of their customers’ down products which they made.

One note about down… If you get it wet, it goes bad really fast. Mould and mildew. I don’t know if it’s repairable, even by washing, if that happens. I haven’t read anything that says it isn’t repairable, though I haven’t read anything that says it is repairable either.

[dndndn]

As a follow up to myself, DeWoolfson Down has a pretty good FAQ. Clawdia posted the company, and they seem to know down and that’s the main product they sell.

DeWoolfson Linens : Home

They seem to say, basically,

1. They’d never call down hypoallergenic.
2. If you get it mouldy/mildew, they say they’ve never been able to repair that
3. Down does have an odor when wet, and may dissipate. This probably explains my ability to observe a faint odor when it’s been slept against. Not that it gets wet, but it’s kind of ‘humid’ being how I’d describe it.

Anyhow, as I said, I bought down because it felt amazingly comfortable. the above FAQ is an example of misc reading I’ve come across, from seemingly reputable sellers who specialize in this.

If I were trying to focus on a ‘clean’ and natural pillow, I’d probably go with a natural cotton, silk, down, latex, wool, other-natural-fiber pillow in a quality dust mite proof protector, and select a ‘standard model’ and price point that allowed semi regular replacement. I’d personally be happy with 5 years from this down pillow.

In my opinion, If down, or especially eiderdown, were legitimately a ‘last generations’ material…and given the price for eiderdown, there’d be a market for used / reclaimed eiderdown. I’ve not seen that. So while it may last for generations (and I’m sure it could), I don’t necessarily know that’d be the best idea and certainly not one that appeals to me.

Note: half the time I sleep on a memory foam pillow, the other half my down pillow. Basically, sometimes one or the other seems more comfortable at the time.