My wife and I have been looking for a mattress to replace our 17 year-old queen size Simmons Beautyrest for a couple of months now, and are having a terrible time deciding which mattress makes the most sense. We have tested countless mattresses, and I narrowly averted a disaster by searching this forum (thank you!) when my better half fell in love with a Beautyrest Black.
We are most likely going to purchase a bed from Urban Mattress here in Denver because they seem very forthright about the products they carry, but even they donât have complete information in terms of layer thicknesses and densities on one of the mattresses we are considering.
The two mattresses in contention are:
Sherwood EvoSleep Retreat Luxury Firm. It seems like Sherwood has a relatively good reputation, and this bed is very comfortable right off the bat. What concerns me is that this is apparently a continuation of the old Dr. Breus line of beds that Sherwood took over after IBC went under (supposedly with some improvements). While I canât find much information about the current Sherwood version, I have found a fair amount of reviews of the Breus beds where people say they experienced significant sagging. I found some information on the construction of the bed in post #6 of this thread. I have contacted Sherwood to get layer thickness and density information, but have not yet received a response. My concern is that this is not an inexpensive mattress, and without additional information it is impossible to know how long this mattress will maintain an acceptable level of comfort.
Vi-Spring Coronet. I like that with this bed we would know EXACTLY what we are getting. I also like the fact that we can have individualized firmness for our sides of the bed and the fact that these beds are guaranteed for life. That said, there are a couple of things that concern me. These are:
-The value of the guarantee; it isnât worth much if the fine print of the warrantee (which I havenât been able to find on-line) makes it impossible to exchange the mattress in the event of a failure and
-What is a lifetime guarantee of a mattress worth since it doesnât seem right to to go for any longer than 20 (or in our current case 17) years without replacement.
While the Vi-Spring is over twice the cost of the Sherwood, we can afford either and I would consider it an OK investment if the Vi-Spring will maintain a superior level of comfort twice as long as the Sherwood so we can sleep well and avoid this of-so-fun experience of mattress shopping for many years.
I will provide additional information on the construction of the Sherwood if and when they send it, but in the meantime any first-hand experiences with these mattresses or insight regarding them and my concerns is very appreciated.
I also think highly of the knowledge and service at urban mattress and I have had nothing but good experiences with them when I have talked with them. As you mention though ⌠no matter how much they may want to disclose the details of the contents of their mattresses ⌠they are only able to provide what the manufacturer provides to them. This means that what they are able to tell you may be more complete for some of their mattresses than for others.
The âbrandedâ Dr Breus mattresses are now being made by Comfort Solutions who bought the license for the name but other manufacturers including Sherwood may be making mattresses that have similar layering. There is nothing special about the Dr Breus mattresses (except that they donât tell you the details of the layers inside them) and they use materials that are available to any manufacturer including Celsion latex (which is now called Talalay GL fast response). The âsignificant saggingâ issues like other major brands is because of the use of lower quality polyfoam or other materials such as synthetic fiber in the upper layers of the mattress. They typically range from under 20% latex to about 50% latex and the rest is lower quality materials and like any mattress where these layers are âhiddenâ or not disclosed ⌠they can be a recipe for foam softening and sagging.
The problem is that the sags or softening may only be noticeable with weight on the mattress and without any weight they may (and probably are) less than the warranty exclusion. As you mentioned ⌠knowing the details and quality of all the layers is the only way to make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses and to have a reasonable idea of what the âweak linkâ in the mattress may be and its relative durability. If there is only an inch or so of âunknown materialâ (such as in a quilting layer) where its softening wonât have a significant effect on the mattress then knowing the density of this layer may not be so important but if the total of unknown layers is @ 2" or more then foam softening may have a more significant effect and I would want to know the details and quality of the layers before considering any mattress.
There are too many mattresses that provide this information to seriously consider mattresses that donât IMO.
VI Spring is in a completely different realm and can only be compared to other types of similar âsuper premiumâ brands that have a similar type of coil and fiber construction (Such as Hastens, Relyon, Savoir, Hypnos). They make their own pocket coils in a variety of different tensions and layering, use some of the best natural fibers available in the world, tease and layer the fibers to create specific performance, feel, and price points, and use âold styleâ hand building construction methods such as side stitching and hand tufting to keep the shape of the mattress and provide durability. They were among the very first to use pocket springs or âmarshall coilsâ (invented by Marshall Mattress in Toronto which is still in business) and like every super premium brand ⌠they use the highest quality materials and construction methods.
In terms of matching the needs and preferences of consumers though ⌠they would be most attractive to those that had a very different âvalue equationâ from the ânormâ.
In terms of the two basic functions of a mattress (which are pressure relief and alignment) they would be similar to other types of mattresses that used good quality and durable materials that provide good pressure relief and alignment that was perfectly suitable for the person sleeping on the mattress.
Where they would differ would be in the preferences that were most important.
The first of these (and perhaps the most important of the âpreferencesâ) is that innerspring/natural fiber mattresses are the most ventilating, humidity controlling, and temperature regulating mattresses available and they excel in this way. They also have a unique feel because natural fibers feel and perform differently from foam. Perhaps most importantly though ⌠these mattresses have a type of value that is not so much utilitarian but esthetic and would be very attractive to those who appreciate the âvalueâ of hand built products that were a work of art as much as a functional mattress. Some people who can comfortably afford it for example would choose a hand built piece of furniture where dovetail joints are hand made rather than machine made or other types of hand built construction over a similar piece that used the same materials and may even be just as durable because they just feel better about what they have purchased ⌠even if functionally it was similar and wasnât any more durable than a similar piece that didnât have the same labor or pride built into it. In the case of mattresses ⌠these are the types of consumers where how they feel âaboutâ a mattress and how it was built may be just as important as how they feel âonâ the mattress they bought.
Natural fibers are also very durable but they respond differently over time. They will gradually compress and in the initial stages the compression may be uneven (leading to impressions that in the case of natural fibers are not a sign of wear but part of their natural response to use). This will generally even out over time and with flipping the mattress (if that is a choice because it isnât ânecessaryâ) but there will always be some remaining impressions along the mattress surface and there will be some firming of the fiber layers as they compress and settle under weight and this is part of the design.
The âlifetimeâ warranty is also not for your lifetime but for the lifetime of the mattress. It covers defects in materials and construction not the gradual loss of comfort or support that happens over time or the natural and ânormalâ compression of the fibers in the mattress.
From a functional or utilitarian point of view or from the point of view of itâs âcommodity or materialsâ value ⌠VI Springs would not represent the best value. On the other hand for those that have a different âpersonal value equationâ that goes beyond just the basic needs and preferences and place a high value some of the features, hand built quality, the use of all natural materials, no foam, ventilation, beauty, and just the joy that comes with knowing that they have purchased a mattress that is a hand built work of art as much as it is a mattress ⌠they provide âvalueâ that canât be matched with other types of materials and construction. This is a mattress where cost is not a major issue and âvalueâ is measured in other terms that are different from most people.
I should also mention that the most knowledgeable people I know and have talked with about âsuper premiumâ brands (including some who have worked at some of them or toured their factories) have always spoken highly of VI Spring and tend to rate them either among the best or often the best of the super premium fiber/innerspring brands.
Thank you for your informative reply. At this point I am leaning away from the Vi-Spring because I just donât think I can justify the price.
Unfortunately I am now back at square one unless or until Sherwood replies to me with layering and density information. Considering that my wife has tried and does not like all-latex mattresses (even with a topper). Do you have any recommendations for other mattresses that we should look at?
I am tempted to try Sherwoodâs gel mattresses because they have much less quilting than the one we are looking at. I believe that they have less in the way of cushioning in the upper layers and future sagging may be more visible. I could always add a topper to get the soft feel that my wife likes.
Outside of other mattresses at Urban Mattress ⌠post #2 here lists the better options Iâm aware of in the Denver area.
Iâm assuming you mean that any future sagging should be less visible (rather than more)? As you mention ⌠it is always easier and more effective to soften up a mattress that is too firm than to try to firm up a mattress that is too soft. If you do add a topper to a mattress that has a top layer of solid gel though ⌠some of the cooling or thermal conductive benefits and some of the âfeelâ of the gel material would be lost.
This thread has more information about the Evosleep gel mattress.
As a follow-up, I just spent about 20 minutes on the phone with Eric at Sherwood and he was INCREDIBLY helpful and provided a full breakdown of the construction of the EvoSleep Retreat Luxury Firm. I will post the construction in a new thread.
Itâs about time that some reviews started popping up about this bed. I wish they were available before we purchased one. Hereâs my experience:
My wife and I recently purchased a Sherwood Evosleep Biogel RX500 (the softest of the Evosleep family). We traded a 10 year old Miralux that we absolutely loved until it started to wear out. I was hoping that the Evosleep would be the pinnacle of mattress comfort because we purchased the adjustable bases and paid about $4500 for the whole bed set. The Evosleep turned out to be extremely hard and uncomfortable. My wife and I constantly woke up with side and back cramping and pain. I tracked my sleep using one of the new electronic activity tracking devices and discovered that I was waking up on average 15 times per night. After two months we pulled the plug on the Evosleep, paid the restocking fee charged by the retailer that sold us the mattress, and purchased a new more traditional coil spring pillow top mattress (spending another $1000). It arrived today and we canât wait to try it. When we returned our Evosleep the salesman said that we were the first to return it and that everyone loves the mattress. However, the delivery drivers that picked it up and delivered our new bed told us that everyone returns these mattresses and they pick up 2-3 per day. I am interested to see more reviews on the Evosleeps. We have now spent about $5500 for our new bed and we couldâve purchased an amazing bed for this price. I hope that this review helps some avoid the same pitfall that we experienced.
Thanks for the review ⌠and I agree that it would be nice to see more of them
Iâm curious though about whether the mattress felt that different from what it did in the store because you are talking about comfort issues (which are completely individual and vary based on body type, sleeping positions, and personal preferences) rather than quality issues of the mattress itself (the quality of materials has little to nothing to do with comfort and support or how it feels and performs). Each personâs comfort and support needs are unique to them (which is why âcomfortâ reviews may not be meaningful for other people) which is a very different issue than the quality of a mattress which has more to do with its durability.
It would also be helpful if you could âtrack downâ what caused you to purchase the mattress or what was different about your in home experience from the testing you did in the store as this could also be very useful. This type of information could be particularly useful in reviews that have to do with someoneâs comfort choice and why they made the wrong mattress choice rather than an issue with the actual quality or value of the mattress itself.
Thanks again and I hope you can add a bit more information about any mistakes you may have made in your initial testing (or anything else that may have contributed to making the wrong comfort choice) so that others can avoid them as well.
queen size Simmons Beautyrest for a couple of months now, and are having a terrible time deciding which mattress makes the most sense. We have tested countless mattresses, and I narrowly averted a disaster by searching this forum (thank you!) when my better half fell in love with a Beautyrest Black.