Need help ASAP re. Lotus Mattress!

I’m shopping for a new mattress and boxspring set in a queen size. I will need new rails and a expander as my bed is a full and I need to expand it to a queen size. My current mattress and boxspring were purchased at City Mattress in Hamburg, NY and they held up well for 15 years.

I was in the store for the after Christmas sale and was looking at their Lotus Asana 5 Super Plus mattress and boxspring, which are on sale for $1739. I was told that this mattress would retain it’s shape and that coil mattresses today don’t have to be flipped anymore.

I have fibrogmyalgia, so support and comfort are important, but after reading how someone had a bad experience with a Prana mattress, I’m nervous about buying something so expensive only to have it dip after a few months. I was told at the store that this wouldn’t be a problem with this mattress. Also, I am 5’3" and need support for lower back issues, too.

I felt $1739 was pricey, but was willing to pay it for a quality mattress.

Online, City Mattress describes this mattress as: “Cradle yourself in this super plush mattress. A breathable, yet durable, stretch knit cover adds to the comfort. Hypoallergenic, mold, mildew and dust mite resistance comes from 3” of eco-friendly Talalay latex over a 6" poly foam core. No coils are needed for support of your body and spine. The mattress is 12" thick and works perfectly on the matching foam-topped 9" foundation. Warranty is 15 years, 10 years full and 5 prorated." The salesperson recommended a 6" foundation, though. I have an older four poster bed.

Please help, I don’t know what mattress to look at or what to buy or where to go for the best value at a fair price. I noticed that you previously recommended Jamestown Mattress, which is 30 minutes south of where I live, but I don’t see them in your listing of “Underground Membership.”

Hi Buffalo, NY,

You certainly did very well with your last mattress. The industry has changed a lot in that time and a mattress that lasts 15 years is much more rare than it was that long ago particularly for those who are purchasing major brands.

The first think I would suggest is to read post #1 here which has a series of steps and links to information that will greatly improve your odds of finding a good quality and value mattress that is suitable for your all needs and preferences. As you will read … a mattress is only as good as the construction and materials that are in it (regardless of brand) and without working with a retailer that will tell you the details of every layer in your mattress … you have no way of knowing it’s quality, potential durability, or value compared to other mattresses you may be considering. If a merchant either can’t or won’t provide you with this information … I would pass them by because a mattress purchase that is completely blind is like buying a piece of furniture that could be made of particle board but paying real wood prices because someone tells you it is good quality. You can’t “feel” quality in a showroom because both high quality and lower quality materials can feel the same but in a few years or less, lower quality materials will soften and degrade much more quickly … particularly in the all important upper layers of the mattress … and will lose their comfort and support. This “normal softening” of lower quality materials that are so common in mainstream mattresses isn’t covered by any warranty.

In the case of the Lotus Asana super Plush … it has 3" of Talalay latex over a 6" polyfoam core and then an additional 3" of unknown material to make up its 12" total. The additional 3" is probably soft polyfoam in the quilting layers (which would be a weak link in this and many other similar mattresses) and the mattress itself at the listed price is not good value at all compared to other mattresses that use similar materials. I would want to know the details of every layer (including the density of the polyfoam layers) and then make some “apples to apples” comparisons with other similar mattresses before considering it.

Most stores will tell you whatever they think you will believe. The truth is these mattresses “can’t” be flipped whether you want to or not because they are one sided (a mattress that can be flipped will be more durable than one that can’t be flipped) and the upper layers are likely made of a material (lower density polyfoam) which softens much more quickly than higher quality materials. It is the thicker layers of softer lower quality pollyfoam in the quilting and comfort layers of mattresses which are one of the most serious problems with mattress durability that has become such an issue for consumers in the last decade.

The better options I’m aware of in the Buffalo area are listed in post #29 here.

There are many local manufacturers across the country which provide better quality and value that are not (yet) members of this site but which I’ve listed with my comments in many of the lists around the forum. I do think highly of Jim and Jim at Jamestown and would certainly make them a priority in my research if i was in the Buffalo area. Local manufacturers in general (in most but not all cases) tend to be much better quality and value than any of the major brands that most people end up buying.


Thank you so much for responding and for your help.

I contacted the closest Jamestown Mattress that is near me (Fredonia, NY), but the saleswoman didn’t seem to have in depth knowledge of mattresses. She suggested I contact a Steve at their factory on Monday if they are open New Years Eve.

Just an FYI, I have a full size bed, but I have expansion rails to make it a queen. So, I’ve been getting full and queen size quotes as it’s just me sleeping on it.

She recommended their Majestic Dream model. A full is $1249 including boxspring. The construction of the mattress is:

deluxe plus pocket coil with 2" latex foam euro top (one sided mattress)
720 luraflex, 14 gauge pocket coils
1.7lb polyurethane foam encasement
2.0oz insulator pad
1.7lb polyurethane foam
inner panel
Dunlop 100" natural latex above liner panel
Quilted border and Quilted panels (Fire Barrier, 1.5lb poly foam, stretch knit fabric)

They also sell a two sided coil bed called Elegant Chiropractic. The queen size is $689 including boxspring. The construction is:
528 luraflex, 14.5 gauge 6 turn coil uni with 6 gauge rim wire
2 oz insulator pad
1.8 oz polyester pad
1.5lb convulted polyurethane foam
Quilted panels (1.5lb poly foam, 1.2 lb poly foam, Damask knit fabric
quilted border

I contacted Mattresses and More that is closest to me from link that you suggested I look at. The owner, Matthew, spent at least an hour on the phone explaining mattresses and the mattress industry. I found him very helpful and service oriented.

They sell a Talalay Latex only bed (no poly foam). It’s on sale now for $1900 in the queen and $1800 in the full including a boxspring. He explained that Talalay latex is much better than poly foam in that you won’t get the cratering that you do with poly foam and the bed is all Talalay latex. It’s made out of Boston by a company called Englander and the line is called Pure Latex Bliss and it’s made especially for his store. Currently, the mattress is $1000 off until January 1, but I’m not in a rush to buy and need to go to the stores to try them out.

I asked him about the construction of Jamestown Mattress’s “Majestic Dream” bed and he said that you shouldn’t mix coils and polyfoam. The conversation was very long and I can’t remember why.

The latex bed seemed pricey and asked him if they had an old fashioned coil only mattress. He said that he does and that Englander makes these flippable beds for his store. City Mattress told me that there are no more flippable beds, which he said isn’t true and explained what happened with the major manufacturer’s once they changed the fire codes for mattresses.

He has a two sided or flippable coil mattress made by Englander that is a semi firm plush. It sells for $549 (everyday low price) in a queen. It has 448 coils and 12 3/4 gauge wire.

He also sells a dbl sided Englander called Posture Support that is flippable and has individually wrapped coils. It comes in firm-soft. The one that sells the most, he calls the “Goldilocks” because 9 out of 10 people prefer it and it’s $899 in a queen.

All his mattresses and boxpsrings come with a 15 year non-prorated warranty. It’s a small business and he has a delivery and removal charge of $50.

I haven’t had a chance to get out and test these mattresses because, well, it’s Buffalo and we had a major snowstorm yesterday.

So, my questions to you are if it’s really true that you can’t mix coils and poly foam like Jamestown Mattress has with the “Majestic Dream” (non flippable, but recommended to rotate it)? Plus, it seems like I would get a longer lasting mattress that is coil only that I can flip and rotate.

My current mattress is a Kingsdown Orthopedic Firm and it lasted me 15 years. It seems like Mattress and More’s Posture Support would be best for my lower back pain and fibromyalgia if I like it when I test it.

Thank You.

Hi Buffalo, NY,

Out of the two mattresses you listed from Jamestown, the Majestic dream certainly uses more durable and higher quality materials than the Elegant although the exact layering and thickness of the lower quality materials would also make a difference in durability. 1.2 lb polyfoam is subject to softening much faster than latex or even 1.5 or 1.7 lb polyfoam so it would be important to me that any layers that used this were fairly thin (such as an inch or so in the quilting layers). Otherthan thin quilting layers … 1.5 lb polyfoam is as low as I would consider and even this should be in relatively thinner layers and ideally used in a two sided mattress. If it is deeper in the mattress under other layers of materials it will also be more durable.

He is correct about some things but not so much about some others. Pure Latex Bliss is owned by Latex International which makes much of the Talalay latex used in mattresses in North America. They are not an Englander brand (although a local manufacturer that makes them under license may also make Englander).

He is also correct that latex … Talalay or Dunlop … is more durable than polyfoam.

The prices you are being quoted are less than the norm but their value would depend on which model you are looking at. Pure Latex Bliss is typically less than most major brands of similar quality but more than many mattresses made by smaller manufacturers. Talalay latex itself is a very high quality material but of course is also more costly than lower quality materials like polyfoam. They have also recently changed their model lineup and they may be looking to clear out their old models (there have been several people on the forum that found some very good value in a Pure Latex Bliss mattress because of this). It’s always important to make “value comparisons” with other mattresses that use similar materials rather than comparing a mattress to its “regular” price (which is often fake) which really doesn’t say much at all.

This seems like a very odd thing to say when they themselves are selling traditional matresses that use innersprings and polyfoam. If this is what he really meant then I have no explanation for his reasoning. There are some very good innerspring/polyfoam mattresses that use high quality materials. Lower quality polyfoam in thick layers is certainly a durability issue in many if not most of the mainstream mattresses sold today so perhaps this is what he meant.

Many smaller manufacturers around the country and some larger ones as well still make two sided mattresses. They are not as common though in the chain stores where unfortunately most people shop. Some manufacturers won’t even make single sided mattresses. Regardless though of whether a mattress is one or two sided … the quality of the materials is the most important thing to know. There are no mattresses that are “coil only” because they all use some type of foam (or in some cases fiber) and it’s the quality of the materials above or on each side of the coils that makes the biggest difference in durability and value.

Warranties are mostly useless because they alll have exclusions that prevent manufacturers from honoring most warranty claims and are mostly used for marketing purposes (because consumers often believe that longer warranties mean a better mattress). Warranties only cover manufacturing defects that usually show up early in the life of a mattress and they don’t cover the loss of comfort and support (either rapid or slower) which is the reason most people need to replace a mattress. Warranties have little to nothing to do with the useful life of a mattress.

My understanding is that snowstorms aren’t so unusual for Buffalo. I’ve seen news reports of some pretty nasty storms there :frowning:

I think I answered this in my earlier comment but if there’s any doubt then the 'black and white" answer is no it’s not true. The most important part is always the quality of the materials and almost any combination of materials and components in a suitable design can make a good mattress if the materials are high quality and put together in a way that meets the needs and preferences of the person buying it.

The mattress that is best for anyone … including those that have back pain and fibromyalgia … is the one that provides good pressure relief (especially important for the fibromyalgia) and good spinal alignment (for the back) and model names that include words like “orthopedic” or “posture support” have little to nothing to do with how suitable a mattress may be for you. they are just marketing terms. 15 years ago mattresses tended to use higher quality materials but you would not be likely to find a Kingsdown mattress in a reasonable price range today that would be nearly as durable.

The key is to make sure that you do good testing for pressure relief and alignment (hopefully with the help of someone with the knowledge and experience to give you good guidance) and to make sure that you know what is in every layer of your mattress.


I just wanted to point out that you’ll want an entirely new frame. Most mattress mfrs require a center support leg on the frame.

I just bought one of these:

Quite a nice frame. Very heavy duty as bed frames go. Joints taper so the more weight you apply the tighter they hold. None of that old key hole loosey-goosey crap.

Thank you. I did know that I will need a new frame expansion as the one I had is 15 yrs old. The legs in the center are not very good. So, I’ve been pricing them at different stores. I was looking for something very durable and I like that this one has legs. I have a four poster bed headboard and footboard. Currently, the set, which is solid cherry from the '40’s, is being repaired and refinished. It will take awhile, so I’m in no hurry to buy a new mattress and boxspring, but thought I’d start looking.

If I go back to a full, I will still purchase a new frame, too.

Thanks Again!

They make this in a single size non adjustable and also offer with feet rather than rollers. Personally I’d rather have flat pads but for some reason everybody stocks rollers.

Anyhow it’s quite an impressive frame compared to the more common models and should be the last one you ever need to buy unless you change sizes.

I called Legget and Platt and no operator answers. There’s a company directory, but you have to spell the person’s name and I have no idea who to speak with. How do I get through to a human being and who do I ask for?

It’s newyears eve so many businesses are closed for the Holiday.

I got my frame from the local Verlo, but I’m sure many retailers have these as well as online

Not really a fan of Amazon but:

I am unsure of the quality of the knockoffs also listed.

Hi Buffalo, NY

The bedframe is an important part of the sleeping system and is the part that supports everything else (the foundation, the mattress, and the people on the mattress). In the case of a steel bedframe I would make sure it has at least 1.5" angle iron and good center support to the floor (preferably with at least two legs for king sizes) and legs that don’t bend or collapse when you move the bed. Most of the major bedframe manufacturers make steel bedframes that will be fine but in general I would avoid the cheapest versions which can be weaker and not as solid or well constructed. If you (or the mattress) are in a heavier weight range then I would look at more heavy duty frames.

If you are considering a wooden bedframe then I would make sure that it is strong enough to support the weight of the mattress and foundation and the people sleeping on it (the manufacturer should be able to tell you about any weight limitations) and has at least 5 hardwood cross slats and that it has a center support beam (in queen or king sizes) with good center support to the floor.

If you plan to use a headboard or footboard I would make sure that it can be easily attached to your bedframe. Some headboards are bolt on and some are use a hook type clip on (which may need an adaptor) and some frames don’t allow for a footboard to be attached if you are considering one.

Leggett & Platt doesn’t sell to consumers directly but they are a major supplier to most retailers across the country where you can buy their products (frames, adjustable beds, foundations, boxsprings etc). Their frames are on one of their websites here.

There are also many other good quality and strong frame suppliers however such as Knickerbocker (they make one that is very strong called the monster bedframe) along with Mantua and W. Silver Products and Glideaway and Hollywood, and Malouf Structures to mention just a few so I wouldn’t spend too much time on these when almost any retailer will have a good quality and suitable frame or a heavy duty frame (for heavier mattresses or body weights) and if they don’t they are widely available.

This thread also has more about heavy duty bedframes.

This Beducation video about bedframes is also well worth watching to get a good sense of what to look for.


I need help in narrowing down my choices between two mattresses.

I contacted Jim Jr at Jamestown Mattress and asked if about the layers of Majestic Dream mattress with a Eurotop. They are as follows (bottom to top layer)
720 Luraflex, 14 gauge pocketed coils
1.7 lb polurethane foam encasement around the perimeter of the mattress
2.0 oz insulator pad above the coils
1.5 lb polurethane foam (ILD 15, 1" soft)
Inner panel - piece of cloth attached to the pad
In the Eurotop:
Dunlop 100% natural latex (above inner panel)
Quilted border
Quilted panels (Fire barrier, 1.5 lb poly foam (1 1/2"), stretch knit fabric

They could make it a dbl sided eurotop with a metal edge instead of foam encasement to make it flippable, but the mattress would be too thick for me (15"-16") even with a low profile box spring.

The full is $1249 and the queen is $1609 (including boxspring for both). They carry the knickerbocker expansion frame and the one that would be best for me is the KB2007 for $99. Their plant in Jamestown is having a mix and match sale later this month and some of the higher end mattresses like the Majestic Dream would be up to 15% off. He would be willing to do 15% off for me at their Fredonia store with free delivery and haul away and I could put it on layaway until my bed is finished being repaired and refinished. Plus, the sales tax is 1.25% cheaper at their Fredonia store (different county).

I went to Mattress and More and checked out their Englander Hampton Posture Support double sided bed. I could not get much information on its exact specs. This is what I could find out bottom to top:
660 pocketed coils (heavy gauge bottom coil), zoned center third spring unit features heavier gauge coils
steel edge support around perimeter
3 layers of bio based polyfoam (2.3lb density per cu ft, 1.9 support factor)
Quilted top layer with triple layer of ultra foam]

The queen is $899. There is a $50 delivery, set up, and haul away charge. They don’t carry expansion frames. The sales tax is higher than in Fredonia as they are located in another county.

My other concern was the store’s advertising. I was told that this mattress’s everyday low price was $899 (w/ boxspring), but when I went there it was advertised as $1099 w/ a free 32" tv. I asked the sales person about the price discrepancy and he said that w/o the tv, the cost is $899. To me, this is false advertising. I also asked about the $1000 off sale on the Talalay latex beds and he said the owner just sold one for $1000 off and he thought it was an unadvertised sale.

Hi Buffalo, NY,

If I was choosing between a mattress made by Jamestown and something sold at Mattress and More I would tend towards Jamestown because you know you are dealing directly with the factory which means the value is likely better and they would likely be more responsive to any issues you may have down the road as well (they have the ability to make adjustments because they have all the equipment and materials if it’s necessary). I would also choose latex over polyfoam in the comfort layers to the degree possible. The Jamestown has a little more polyfoam than I would normally like to see but some of this (1") is below the latex which would make it more durable and the top1.5" is in the range that I think is “acceptable” (1.5" in the quilt). The only thing missing is that it doesn’t say the thickness of the Dunlop layer which I would want to know.

I would also question the specs you were provided by Mattress and More as far as the comfort layers and I’m not sure I would trust these. It would be very unusual for a manufacturer like Englander to use this density of polyfoam in the comfort layers of their mattress and I would want the specific layering details as well (it sounds like someone just said something along the lines of “tell them it’s …”) without describing every layer. I would also want to know the details of the “Quilted top layer with triple layer of ultra foam” both in terms of thickness and in terms of density if it was more than about an inch or so because this along with the polyfoam below it could be the weak link of this mattress.

If all 3 layers of “bio based polyfoam” were this density then it would be better quality than you would usually see in a mattress in this price range (but still conventional polyfoam and not HR polyfoam) but I would question the specs if they were provided by someone that couldn’t also provide the specific thickness of each layer.

The bottom line is that I personally wouldn’t buy a mattress anywhere unless I knew the details of every layer.


I have a question in regards to bed frames. I was looking at Knickerbocker’s site and emailed me as I questioned if I should go with their monster frame or a different one. I told them that I have a four poster bed with a headboard and footboard. They sent me an email back that their bed frames are only made for beds with head board only and suggested supports for side rails. I emailed them back that I don’t have side rails and just a head board and footboard.

I’ve decided to keep this bed a full as it was made, but I will still need a new frame to fit into the sides of the headboard and footboard. I would like one that will last me a long time and is well made. Unfortunately, there is no phone # for Knickerbocker on their website and only email. I haven’t heard back from their customer service dept.

Any suggestions on a brand and model of a bed frame that would fit my needs?

Hi Buffalo NY,

If you have just a headboard and footboard (and not a whole bed with side rails and a center beam) then you would need a metal frame that had an attachment on both ends like this for example.

If you bought a frame that only has only a headboard attachment then you could add a footboard attachment bracket like this if your frame has holes on the end of it.

I am not familiar with all the brands and models out there but I would call some of your local mattress manufacturers or better retail sources who will almost certainly carry what you need and be able to give you good information about which brands and models they carry are the best quality.