We have been reading your posts and certainly value your opinion. My wife and I have been shopping for a latex mattress for over a year. We have come to the conclusion that it would be impossible for us to buy a mattress without first laying on it which eliminates many companies that are located in other states. We have zeroed in on the PranaSleep mattress which we understand we would be purchasing at a premium. My question is regarding the 3" foam top layer. We have laid on other mattresses that do not have a quilted top layer and have come to the conclusion that this is one element that we like. Our concern is that the top layer will not hold up and in a sense defeats the benefit of choosing latex. We were advised that the foam layer is of the type (don’t remember the name of the foam but started with a “V” that resists dust mites and is of high quality to ensure the best possible outcome as it relates to available foam products. What is your opinion regrading the foam layer and in your opinion what we may giving up not being in direct contact with the latex layer.
You are in good company and there are many people who feel this way and are much more comfortable buying something they can test in person. the large majority of mattress purchases (over 80%) are a local purchase.
There are many people who prefer the feel of a quilting layer over latex (usually wool, other natural or synthetic fibers, or polyfoam) but it’s a matter of degree. If the quilting layer is lower quality foam or too thick then it can become a bigger part of what you feel on the mattress and can also become the weak link of the mattress because a mattress will tend to soften from the top down. If there is more than about an inch or so in the layers above the latex then this can lead to softening or impression issues much more quickly. While latex is more durable than even high quality polyfoam … lower quality polyfoam will soften much more quickly yet and with thicker quilting or top comfort layers it becomes more important to know the quality of the material so you can have more realistic expectations about the degree of foam softening and breakdown you can expect over the years.
You can read a little more about PranaSleep and my thoughts about the quilting layers they use in post #3 here but at the very least I would want to know the thickness and density of the polyfoam they are using (Note Jordans now lists them as a 3/4" layer of 2.5 lb polyfoam and then two 1" layers of 1.5 lb polyfoam which is lower than I would consider). A forum search on pranasleep (you can just click this) will also bring up more posts with comments and feedback about them.
While I can understand thinner quilting layers for the sake of a “hand feel” or “surface” feel that some people prefer … I am not a fan of this much lower density polyfoam over a latex mattress both because it diminishes the feel of the latex and because it will be less durable.
Thank you for your reply and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Are you aware of any manufactures that produce a quality latex mattress core and a thin quilted top layer?
There are lots of manufacturers across the country that make latex mattresses with a thin quilting layer (such as wool or polyfoam) but whether any of them are local to you would depend on where you live. If you let me know your city or zip I’d be happy to link you to any of the better options I’m aware of in your area.
Online there are also many choices and post #21 here has a list of the members here that sell online and they have many latex options available as well.
Below is what I received from the PranaSleep salesperson. Your thoughts?
I contacted our CEO for the information you required, below please see his response.
These are high density poly foams, ranging from 1.5 to 2.5lbs.
Any breakdown would be covered under the warranty.
We have not had any failures since we started making these 3 years ago.
In Rollator and Cornell testing, the body impression was less than one inch after a simulated 10 years.
The “specs” they supplied are meaningless and covers a range from lower quality polyfoam to high quality polyfoam. If the upper layers were 2.5 lbs then they would be much more durable but in a mattress in this price range I still wouldn’t like to see polyfoam layers this thick in the all important top layers of a mattress even if they were high quality polyfoam (even high quality polyfoam is a much less costly and durable material than latex).
In the lower end of this range the use of polyfoam would be completely unsuitable in a one sided mattress in this price range.
Foam softening and breakdown is only covered by warranty if it involves actual unweighted impressions which are deeper than the warranty exclusions and in most cases foam softening and the loss of comfort and support is the reason that people need to replace a mattress … not visible impressions. You can read more about warranties in post #174 here.
I don’t think that “failure” is the issue as much as durability and the likelihood that the materials will soften outside of your range of needs and preferences (whether they have specifically failed or “collapsed” completely or not). The durability of a material is relative to the person on the mattress and when the mattress has lost the comfort and support that is specific to their needs and preferences then in practical terms the mattress has “failed” whether it would still be completely suitable for someone else or not.
If a customer had a mattress that was no longer suitable for them to sleep on because of foam softening and there wasn’t a visible impression bigger than the warranty exclusion then they wouldn’t even know about it because warranty coverage would be denied even though the customer would need to replace the mattress.
Thank you again for your opinions and wealth of good information.
We canceled our PranaSleep order. Way to expensive and cannot live with the thought of sleeping on a 3" foam layer and that which will in all probability not stand the test of time. What we liked most about their mattress is that the quilted layer was tight and the surface tension was taut. This is what we are looking for as our search moves forward. We lean towards medium firm (me) to very firm (my wife) split twin XL as our sleeping needs differ.
It appears to me that the smaller independent manufacturers outer wrap (not sure of the proper terminology) of the mattress is often loose and a bit sloppy to that of the main stream mattress manufacturers. Your thoughts on this as it relates to their ability to achieve our top quilted layer goals?
I located a manufacturer which is local to us and has been in business since 1956. Their name is Schrader Mattress. They are located in West Palm Beach Florida. I visited their factory and their products are less latex and more innerspring. As you are aware it is most challenging in purchasing a mattress without being able to touch, see, feel and lay on the mattress.
I am drawn to Royal-Pedic. Have you heard good reports about their quality? We definitely want a quilted top being 1" to 1-1/2" made from wool or another high grade material. Definitely would like a dust mite resistant materials. As a reminder we are looking for a latex mattress for use on an adjustable base.
The outer “wrap” is called the ticking but most people just call it the cover. I’m not so sure that I would generalize the way you have because each manufacturer will choose or make a cover that is part of the design goal of the mattress. Specialty foams such as latex and memory foam will often have a looser cover so that the “feel” of the foam underneath comes through more but there are also many manufacturers (small and large) that use various types of quilting in their covers (ranging from polyfoam to wool to synthetic fibers) and many of them will tuft their top layers in some designs as well both of which will make the surface tension tighter. Some smaller manufacturers still have a quilting machine and make their own quilted covers and can design their own quilting pattern (quilting patterns that are tighter make a firmer surface).
For some reason I didn’t notice that you had posted your zip code in an earlier post. Some of the better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Palm Beach area are listed in post #2 here and there is a list in post #2 here centered on Ft Lauderdale which is mostly duplicate but also includes some options in Miami and has a link to a thread with feedback about some of them.
Royal-Pedic are very high quality mattresses (you can tell this by their materials and construction) like other similar latex mattresses but they also have a premium price compared to other mattresses that use similar materials and are not particularly good value IMO. Of course “value” has many components and one of these is the suitability of a mattress or what I call PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and if they are somehow “perfect” in every way and for some reason there was no other latex mattress that was even close then for some people their “value” may be based more exclusively on how they feel and perform rather than how they compare to other mattresses in terms of cost, construction, and the quality of their materials.
There is more information about dust mites in post #2 here and two of the main keys to controlling them are the ventilation of the mattress and the use of a good mattress protector (or in some cases where dust mite allergies are more severe a mattress enclosure).