Been reading this site for many days and I think I have learned alot. Thank you for a site for information junkies like myself. I find when I talk to the sales people now I feel I know more then they do ( it is amazing to me that so many just repeat a sales pitch).
I came across a little furniture builder who also carries some mattresses. He has a memory foam bed from a company called Ortho Sleep. The bed is 3" of 5.7 density memory foam with 7" of poly foam base. He doesn’t have anymore info and I can’t find any info on the web and I was hoping that you have heard of them. As a side note the owner said that the mattress maker use to work for Serta or Seally and decided to work for himself.
After reading this site I have found a mattress maker in portland Maine (I live in Maine) called “Portland Mattress Maker”. I was hoping that you know anything about them. They say that their foam mattresses are comparable to the Tempur cloud, which is what we are looking for as far as feel.
There is an Ortho mattress based in Calfornia but I doubt this is the one. It could also be that this is a model line rather than the manufacturer. I’m surprised he doesn’t know the company that made it or where he bought it from.
There are a couple of manufacturers in Maine that fit the profile of the type of manufacturer that I would certainly put my focus on.
Their memory foam uses 5 lb foam which is good quality but it would depend on the layering they used and the type of foam whether or not it felt like a Tempurpedic Cloud. Memory foam mattresses have a very wide variety of different feels depending on the type of memory foam they use and how the foams are layered and also what is under the memory foam. The Cloud series uses a combination of softer faster reacting 4 lb form and the regular 5.3 lb tempur foam.
Another local manufacturer in Maine is http://www.maidenmaine.com/ (AKA Daly Bros). They also make a range of mattresses using high quality materials.
While I don’t have any direct experience with either of these … I have heard good things about both of them and wouldn’t hesitate to pay either or both of them a visit if you were close enough.
The Ortho Sleep also seems to use good quality foam but I would make sure it is North American manufactured. While it could also be a good mattress for you (depending on your height, weight, body shape, sleeping positions, and preferences), … it’s unlikely that it would feel like the cloud because it uses different layering. To roughly duplicate the one of the Cloud models would need a memory foam mattress that used a similar layering of a similar type of memory foam (4 lb and 5 lb memory foams).
If you find out any more about the “mystery” manufacturer … let me know.
Thanks for getting back to me. I looked around and found the company that sells the Ortho sleep: Ortho Sleep Products LLC (718) 894-0190 1633 Centre St Ridgewood, NY 11385. I talked to a receptionist and she said if I wanted specs I would have to talk to the owner who was unavailible at the moment. I can’t find anything else online. I don’t know if you know anything else? On a side note, I tried the bed but the showroom was like 60 deg. and the bed was rock hard.
We have laid on several beds and my wife likes the feel of the ones that have 4lb foam. We have tried and liked the following: Sealy Cedar point which has 3" of 4lb memory foam on 7" of sealyfoam. Corsicana Harmony cool gel 1 3/4" Cool Reflections Gel, 1" Cool Reflections Memory Foam’ 2" Super Soft Comfort Foam, 7" High Density Foam Core with Foam Encased Rails Icomfort Insight (I know how you feel about this bed but we like the feel of it)
One place had a Serta Kerrick which the saleman said had 3" of 4lb on either 6" or 7" of core foam. He only mentioned it because I asked. He was just trying to rush us to the Icomfort display.
I have tried the Tempur cloud and liked the feel. Most of the others are too hard, too slow to respond for my wife.
I’m 6’ 3" and 220lbs while my wife is 5’10" and 275lbs. I start off on my back and just roll to my stomach and sides all night. My wife is mostly a side sleeper. If I understand correctly from reading my wife needs 3" of comfort foam and 5lbs+ for durability. I find if I go below 4lb my hips sink down and my back aches.
Is there a way to get a higher quality memory foam that feels softer. Like I said my wife cant stand that “clunk and then melt in” feel.
Thanks so much for you help and wisdom.:cheer:
PS I was reading in another thread and Overnight Mattress has perked my interest. You said you don’t recommend the gel top and I was wondering why. Also I checked out some reviews of them and the main complaint isn’t their products but that customer service after the sale is horrible. Any input on this would be of great help.
I looked them up and had a chance to talk with Michael the owner of Orthosleep products this morning. They are a wholesale manufacturer who makes mainly what are called promotional mattresses which means they are in the lower budget ranges. They sell through retail outlets and they are very open about the foams they use and the “ingredients” in their mattresses. They are good value compared to major brands that use similar quality foams.
He has been involved in the industry for 30 years, has owned mattress factories and a large textile company, and is very knowledgeable and helpful. His website http://orthosleepproducts.com/ will be up and running in about 10 days. They have many retail outlets and one of them is http://www.building19.com/index.htm who include them in their weekly specials from time to time. If one of their retailers doesn’t know the details of the foam used in a particular mattress … a quick call to Orthosleep can find out. They are certainly worth considering in the low budget ranges where they compete well.
I personally would tend to avoid the major brands … not because they don’t feel good but because when you compare them to smaller manufacturers who use similar quality foams and similar layering … they just don’t compete well on value.
For example … the Sealy Cedar Point which is a very basic low budget memory foam mattress. It sells at sears for $809 in queen. While it may or may not have a feel you like … it is nothing like the iComforts or the Tempurpedic Cloud series which use layering of different types of memory foams to create how each model feels.
Corsicana is a mid size national manufacturer which specializes in lower budget mattresses and they tend to compare well with larger manufacturers in the same price ranges (if you compare ingredients). There is better value yet though IMO by dealing with smaller or local manufacturers.
The icomfort has a very popular feel (and they have been selling like hotcakes because of it) and they have done a great job of promoting gel memory foam but again … they don’t compete well with smaller manufacturers who use similar or higher quality ingredients and sell for lower prices.
With your larger weights … and if you are committed to memory foam over other materials … I would be seriously looking at using memory foam over 5 lb density. If this isn’t possible or if the 5 lb foam you are testing doesn’t have the feel you are looking for … then I would consider a mattress which has a removeable layer or a zip cover where layers can be removed so if the lower density foams wear out prematurely then you can replace the layer rather than the whole mattress.
There are many reasons why different memory foam mattresses have different feels and different levels of softness or firmness and post #4 here goes into more detail about this often misunderstood subject.
I don’t recommend the gel top at Overnight Mattress mainly because gel memory foam is an emerging category (an offshoot of memory foam) and there are IMO better and worse ways to add gel to foam. The versions that use “beads” or “particles” are likely to be less durable than the versions that infuse the gel into the memory foam itself or add it in different ways than “particles” that are spread throughout the foam and give the foam a “false density” in terms of measuring durability. Some of the gel memory foam options are discussed in post #26 here.
My first choice would be one of the local manufacturers I mentioned and I would avoid major brands and chain stores completely. if for some reason there was nothing suitable at either of the local factory direct manufacturers that you liked … then I would look online at outlets that allowed you some options to customize your mattress in different ways or had better value.
The guidelines about the thickness of the layers are only guidelines to be confirmed with actual “lay on mattress” testing. Your wife may need thicker firmer layers than normal and you … because you sleep in all positions including your stomach … you will need the thinnest firmest comfort layer possible that relieves pressure in all positions (especially your side).
You can spend a lot of time and energy (and become increasingly overwhelmed and frustrated) focusing on brands and outlets which don’t offer the best value and don’t make it easy to know what is in them. I would make the job much simpler by visiting local manufacturers who know what is in their mattress and have the knowledge and ability to help you make better choices that are more suitable for your body weight, body shape, and sleeping positions. The alternative would be looking at some of the better manufacturers or outlets online.
Thanks for the info on orthosleep. I goes to show how powerful you are. I have talked to their customer service lady but she didn’t know any of the numbers so she told me back and when I did the owner was busy (I wonder if he was busy talking to you).
As far as buying a name brand or big store, we are just going to these places to get an idea for what we like the feel of. I figure once we know what we like we will be able to find something better else where.
I did talk to Portland Mattress and they were very helpful. they said their Portland-pedic was 3" of 5lb memory foam on top of 7" of 1.8lb of core foam (He thought that the ILD was 34, he wasn’t sure and told me I could call back tomorrow and talk to someone else, He also said that IFD was usually what he uses with latex and not foam) They say that feel is subjective but he thought it felt like the Tempure Cloud series. How can that be when one has serveral layer and one has two layer?
The Portland-pedic is $1299 for the king size matress. How would this compare to the Overnight Mattress cool breeze at $799 ?
I’m fortunate that I’m often (but certainly not always) able to talk with the owners or the people who make the mattresses when I call but I think it helps that I tell them that I run a consumer information website which helps people to find better local manufacturers.
That makes good sense to me as long as they are able to tell you the materials you are sleeping on especially in the top few layers of a mattress. There are so many different varieties of each material that it can be somewhat difficult or confusing to try and “duplicate” a feel you like without knowing the details of a mattress you like. Of course the more general specs of many of the mattresses are available online with a bit of searching so they can at least be a general guideline even if it’s not completely “accurate”.
He’s correct that the feel of memory foams is very subjective and there are many many different types of memory foams which can feel very different from each other even though they all share the “memory foam” feeling (slow recovery or an imprint which doesn’t spring right back). The 5 lb memory foam they use may be formulated to be a little quicker recovery or “softer” than some others and in this way be “closer” to the Tempur Cloud series (which has several different “feels” in their lineup depending on the model and layering pattern) but I would think that most people would perceive it as being different. Many people who talk with a manufacturer or outlet will talk about the overall “memory foam feel” without knowing there is a wide variety of different types within the category and outlets are more used to people who think that memory foam is memory foam and have little knowledge of the differences between them. When they tell people that a memory foam mattress feels like the Cloud they may be referring to the overall memory foam feel rather than a particular type of memory foam feel and may not realize they are talking with someone who may know that memory foam mattresses come in many different types.
ILD (or the newer term IFD which is basically the same thing) is a measurement of all foams but is more commonly used with latex and polyfoam (although it only indicates firmness and has nothing to do with density or quality). Very few manufacturers or outlets have customers who even ask about ILD/IFD of polyfoam and lying on a mattress will also tell you if a layer or support core is firmer or softer even if the ILD is unknown. With memory foam … ILD is not so meaningful and specs like density and recovery rate and breathability are far more important. All memory foams would be considered soft once they warm up to the degree they need to to take on the shape of the body lying on them.
The Cool Bamboo (which is the one I think you mean?) with their 5.3 lb memory foam (needs to be ordered on the phone and is not on their list) would be most comparable to another 5 lb foam although it is likely a little firmer and may feel different than the foam at Portland Mattress Makers. It would be similar in quality however. The 4.5 lb foam at Overnight feels “softer” and a little less motion restricting but is slightly lower density/durability. The base foam at overnight is 2.1 lbs which is a little higher quality but the “weak link” is normally in the upper layers not the base foam. Different covers/tickings can also make a difference in cost. There is also the factor that there are also more and less expensive versions of memory foam with similar density. While density is the single biggest factor in terms of foam quality/durability, there are foams which are more expensive which are formulated to have certain more desirable characteristics than others so a comparison by density alone (assuming they are both American made or CertiPur certified foams that don’t use fillers and have a misleading density) is not the complete story of why one foam may cost more than another. The feel of a memory foam and factors like breathability, response rate, temperature sensitivity, and others also plays a role.
While there is no way to tell for sure how they would compare to each other in terms of “feel” without lying on them (which is why I place a premium on buying a mattress I’ve actually tested, at least to a point), in terms of overall quality, the Overnight would seem to be a better value (as long as you chose a comparable memory foam).
Went to another shop today with my wife so I could get an idea of the feel that she likes. We laid in several Tempurpedic beds and the one she liked was the Cloud. I’m not looking to buy the Cloud but a feel. From what I understand they use 4lb in the support layer. With both of us larger I’m afraid that it won’t hold up as long. But the 5lb foam seems harder slower to respond. Is there a 5lb quality foam that has a lower IFD (I hope I’m using this term right) so that it feels as responsive and as soft as a 4lb foam.
In this light I was reading on sleepwarehouse’s site and they describe their foam this way:
Am I to understand they are saying that their foam has even more of a firm initial feel, more of the “clunk and then sink in” feel. If so then this surprises me as I can’t believe that someone would want something “harder” (pleases help me in finding the right way to express this feeling) than say a tempur classic or other 5"+ lb foams I have been on.
Today we also laid on a few latex beds and my wife was surprised that it was as pressure relieving as a comfort layer as the memory foam. The bed we laid in that we both liked was an 8" Englander organic latex bed. The people there didn’t know the IFD of the bed was (they actually didn’t know what that meant) but gave me a number I could call.
Here is an odd question, we laid in a latex bed that was some blended mix and my wife was comfortable on her side but when she rolled over onto her back she felt that her hips didn’t sink in (or that her shoulders sank in too far). The question is how can the hip sink in on the side but the rear end not sink in far enough in the same area of the bed?
Tomorrow we are checking out the Portland Mattress Makers and hopefully learn a few things. Is there anything I should be sure to ask or look out for?
Some of the descriptions on their site are a little misleading so hopefully I can clarify a bit.
First of all it’s important to know that there is no such thing as “supportive” memory foam. While it’s true that some will hold up more weight than others or are “relatively firmer” … none of them are supportive enough to be used in the support layers of a mattress. When talking about memory foam … words like “supportive” really mean degrees of softness. Memory foam is a pressure relieving comfort material not a support material. The support layers underneath the memory foam are the supportive part of the mattress.
The next thing about memory foam is density. Higher density means more durable foam. Higher density foam tends to have more “memory” while lower density foam tends to be closer to polyfoam (less viscosity and faster response).
ILD (or IFD) in memory foam is only a minor issue and is a measure of foam softness. They are all soft though and almost all memory foams have an ILD of 15 and below. Even the firmer ones go up to about 18 which is also soft. It’s the difference between soft, super soft, and ultra soft. Now ILD is measured with a time delay to give the memory foam time to respond (it’s a slow response material) because if you put sudden pressure on it, it will feel firm (just like pushing quickly on honey instead of pushing slowly on honey). The temperature, humidity, speed of movement, response rate, and to a much lesser degree ILD all play a role in how firm a memory foam feels. With other instant reacting foams, firmness is all about ILD and compression modulus (how quickly it gets firmer with more compression). With memory foam … ILD is one of the least important reasons a foam may feel firm.
There are many many different combinations of chemicals that are used in memory foam formulations and there are also variations in how it is produced and all of these formulations and production methods produce memory foams with different properties. While they are all memory foam (the handprint stays in the foam for a while) they are also very different in terms of feel. Each of the many manufacturers may have dozens of different types of memory foam that each have a different feel and response and there are many different manufacturers as well. Even more confusing … there are also different additions that can be added to the memory foam formulations (like gel beads with the iComfort) which can change the properties of the memory foam as well.
One of the things that manufacturers change is how temperature sensitive the memory foam is. Memory foam that is more temperature sensitive will be firmer/stiffer when it is cold and softer/pliable when it is warmer. More temperature sensitive foam will be softer closer to your body but firmer beside your body. Foams that are more sensitive to cooler temperatures tend to be quite stiff in the areas a little further away from your body and softer underneath your body and close to your body heat. This is especially true when the environment is cooler.
Another thing manufacturers will vary is how long the foam keeps the memory of a shape before it comes back to level or how long it takes to soften before it conforms to your body. Faster response foams have a little more elasticity and respond to changes faster and a little less viscosity (liquid like) and “shape memory”.
Another thing that many manufacturers work on is to make a more open celled foam (memory foam usually has a less open cell structure than other foams) so that it can be more breathable and sleep cooler. Cooling down memory foam is one of the big things in the industry because memory foam tends to sleep hotter than other foams. A side effect of more breathable foams is that they are also a little faster reacting (air can flow back and refill the parts that were compressed more easily.
All of these things are related but also very different. You can have for example a 5 lb breathable faster reacting and less temperature sensitive foam or a 5 lb less breathable slower reacting and more temperature sensitive foam depending on the formulation and production methods.
In general … bearing in mind that any density can have different properties … the lower densities of the same type of memory foam will be less temperature sensitive, faster reacting, and more breathable. They will also be less durable than a denser foam of the same type. Some people prefer slightly lower density 4 lb memory foams because of these differences in performance even though they may be less durable. I would be very cautious about using 4 lb memory foam with higher weights though (say over 200 lbs or so) because of potential durability issues.
Perhaps the strangest thing about memory foam is that the higher density foams … even those that feel firmer and more “stiff” with lower temperatures (and which people may call too hard or feel like it traps them) can also be the most pressure relieving once they have enough time to take on the shape of the body and redistribute the body weight. The more of the heavier chemicals there are in foam that give it more viscosity, the more it can conform more precisely to the shape of your body. The problem is that it may take more time to get there and to change into a new shape if you move so people often don’t like the feeling of firmness and motion restriction even though it may be more pressure relieving. So in effect … the firmer higher density foams (or at least the ones that take longer to get softer) are the most pressure relieving once they take on your shape but are slow to conform to a new shape when you change position or when they are colder so they can feel firmer.
So my goal in all of this is to make clear that different memory foams can be difficult to compare.
One thing you can count on is that higher density is more durable relative to lower density (it will keep it’s characteristics and it’s “memory” longer).
Another general trend that is more of the “norm” is that faster response foams don’t get quite as stiff when they are cool and are more breathable than slower response more temperature sensitive foams. they also don’t get quite as soft or “gooey” when they warm up either. Newer generation foams tend to be more of this type because people wanted less motion restricting and less temperature sensitive memory foams without giving up the memory foam qualities.
It also tends to be true that lower density foams are faster responding (feel softer because there is less stiffness to overcome) than higher density foams. It’s also tends to be true that higher density foams will allow for less sinking in than lower density foams and while this doesn’t really qualify them to be called supportive … this is why some people use the word when describing them. This is why the tempur cloud series feels softer than the other lines but is also less conforming and pressure relieving than their denser slower responding foams.
So what they are saying about the Sensus is that it is a slower recovery type of foam rather than a fast recovery type of foam and that it is very pressure relieving. Aerus for example also comes in a 5 lb version (they only carry the 4 lb) and it would be a faster recovery and more breathable version of 5 lb foam. Both are very high quality but Sensus is closer to the tempurpedic feel than the faster recovery feel of the Aerus.
On to your other questions and comments …
Latex can be just as pressure relieving as memory foam (it can conform to a body shape and distribute weight) just as well. The difference is that it can also be more supportive, more breathable, and more motion friendly (no trapped feeling) because its more elastic and not temperature sensitive. Englanders are made of Dunlop latex. Many or most (but not all) of the Englanders have polyfoam over the latex so unless you checked to make sure what every layer of the mattress was made of you wouldn’t be able to tell if you were feeling soft polyfoam over latex or latex itself. Talalay latex tends to come in softer and more pressure relieving versions than Dunlop.
This may have been blended Talalay latex … or something else of course. How far each part sinks in has to do with how much weight it carries and the surface area that carries the weight, Thin or narrow shoulders will sink in easier than thicker wider shoulders. Narrow more pointed hips will sink in easier than the greater surface area of the same area on the back. This is part of the reason that weight and body shape are so important and that they are matched to a mattress. While it’s very unusual for the shoulsers to sink in too far and the hips or pelvis not enough … it certainly is possible. This would also depend on the relative width of the shoulders and hips. The mattress also could have been zoned to be softer under the shoulders and firmer under the hips.
Trust your instincts, test specifically for pressure relief and alignment when you are fully relaxed and your muscles have “let go” (which usually takes a while in a mattress store) and use the knowledge and guidance of the manufacturer (who tend to know more than typical salespeople in stores that don’t actually make the mattresses) and you will do fine. Take your time as well and ask as many questions as you need to. Better choices are worth a little more effort and time because a new mattress will affect how you sleep and also how you feel when you are awake for many years.
Wife got sick so no mattress shopping this weekend. But it has given me some more time to read and read and then read some more. Actually my wife was teasing me that most wives worry about their husbands staying up late looking at racey sites and that she has to worry about me staying up too late reading mattress forums ;).
I saw in another thread you did a breakdown of the Icomfort series as far as each layer and what it all does. I thought that was very good. I have searched and haven’t found a breakdown of the Temperpedic line. I was hoping you could do a breakdown of them as well or point me direction of this if it is already done.
Still trying to wrap my brain around the memory foam issue. I understand what the weight means and what IFD means but is there a standard or a way to compare the responsiveness of the foam? [quote] You can have for example a 5 lb breathable faster reacting and less temperature sensitive foam or a 5 lb less breathable slower reacting and more temperature sensitive foam depending on the formulation and production methods. [/quote]If I decide to to buy online how to I know I’m getting the feel I want. I obviously want the most durable foam (This is the reason we are avoiding the the big names, right) but my wife will shoot me if I get a slow responding foam.
The Aerus claims to be a newer technology and it seems they are saying it is more durable. How would this compare to an older 5lb, still less durable or the same? Also I have seen foam that is 4.5lb or 5.2lb. How much difference are the numbers behind the decimal point. How much difference would this be from a straight 5.0lb foam? (Sorry if this seems like a petty question but it has been bugging me)
Thanks again for a wonderful site and trying to shine light in a very murky journey:)
Now that’s funny! I can relate though … except in my case it’s staying up late doing mattress research or answering posts in a forum. Either way though … I guess it keeps both of us out of “trouble” … or maybe gets us into trouble as in “don’t you think it’s time to come to bed!”
The Tempurpedic mattresses are a little easier to analyze because they use fewer types of material. They are basically all made from layers of memory foam of different densities (4.1 lb ES, 5.3 lb, and 7 lb HD). The regular 5.3 lb comes in a softer formulation and a “regular” formulation. All of their mattresses use polyfoam support layers and most are good quality and range from 2 lb to 2.2 lb but some use lower density polyfoam in the 1.5 lb range.
Their mattresses are made up of different layers of memory foams of different densities and formulas to create different feels. All of these layers are listed on the Tempurpedic site which is one of the things they’re good at (EDIT: this is no longer the case and their specs may no longer be the same and they aren’t releasing information about any of their new lines). The 7 lb foam is more conforming (meaning that it can relieve pressure better) and generally softer feeling than the 5.3 lb memory foam but it is also firmer feeling to some people because it takes longer to soften, has a more “resistant” feeling against movement, and denser memory foams allow a little less sinking in … at least initially … which is why they’re often described as more “supportive”. This materials is used in thinner layers in various models to modify the feel and add to pressure relief.It’s also the most expensive of the memory foam materials. The regular 5.3 lb foam is the firmest in terms of softness, and ease of movement. Many people feel that this one too creates a “sleeping in sand” feeling. Some like this motion restriction “sleeping in sand” feeling and some don’t. Next down the line is the softer 5.3 lb formulation which is more responsive and softer feeling than the regular which is why it’s often used in the upper layers when you see two layers of what seems to be the same 5.3 lb memory foam. Finally the softest but least conforming is the 4.1 lb foam which is used in different ways throughout the Cloud series.
All of the Tempurpedics use somewhat less breathable memory foam than many other types so they would also tend to sleep hotter. This is why they use the “airflow system” in the base layers which is convoluted foam which in theory helps the layers to breathe. In practice though … the effect of this is somewhat limited because the convoluted foam is covered with less open celled memory foam so for the convoluted layer to work the air would need to go through the less breathable foam on top. Lying on a mattress also compresses the “channels” and limits their effect. The most effective “breathable” memory foams have a more open celled structure than the Tempur material and/or punch holes in the upper layers to help with airflow and help the upper layers “connect” better with any air channels underneath.
There is one exception to the use of combinations of memory foam comfort layers and polyfoam support layers in the lineup which is the Bellafina (NOTE: no longer sold in the US) which uses 3" of Dunlop latex underneath the memory foam and then adds the polyfoam underneath this. the quality of the latex is unknown but If I had to guess it would likely be a blended or synthetic Dunlop which is about the lowest cost version of latex even though low cost latex is still better than other foams.
So to compare a Tempurpedic with other mattresses in terms of quality and durability would be a matter of comparing the quality and density of the foams used in each mattress. In most cases I would tend to reduce or minimize the use of 4 lb memory foams for those who are over the low 200 lb range because they are less durable than higher density memory foams.
In terms of “feel” though … it’s a very different story. Tempur uses fairly sophisticated layerings of different types of memory foams to create a wide range of mattresses which not only feel different but cater to different sleeping styles and preferences. Their foams tend to be of the “less responsive” and “less breathable” type compared to many others but only lying on a mattress can really tell how these differences and the different memory foam layerings will feel to each person. One of the reasons that the iComfort has been so successful is that it uses more “responsive” and breathable memory foams (which some people … but not all … seem to prefer).
In general though … Tempurpedic uses high quality foams (keeping in mind that a 4 lb foam is always less durable than a 5.3 lb foam) but they are significantly overpriced IMO when compared to many other memory foam mattresses that use equal quality materials in similar layering. Each memory foam has a certain feel though which is independent of it’s quality so because Tempurpedic is so widely available and was the first to market … it has become the “standard” to which others are compared both in terms of quality and feel which they have used to full advantage in their marketing materials and in their pricing. A great deal of confusion in both consumers and in the memory foam market along with continual aggressive advertising has allowed them to maintain and even increase this perception … at least till recently.
IMO (and supported by more scientific information regarding foam manufacturing) … they are no longer the “quality” leader or the “feel” leader … however they remain the leader in name recognition and are a common “safe” choice for people who aren’t aware of other mattresses of equal quality that they can reasonably compare them to. The market is so confused that many people think “memory foam is memory foam” and compare the Tepurpedics to one of the thousands of “cheap” memory foam mattresses which use 3 lb foam and cheap base layers and completely misleading “tempurpedic comparisons” and when the Tempur feels and performs better than the cheap low quality “imitations” … they think that Tempurpdic is the “best” memory foam out of all the other choices. This is the consumer and market confusion that has allowed Tempurpedic to maintain its sales and profit margins and which until recently allowed them to keep increasing their market share and profit margins as well) even though there are many mattresses that compete very favorably in every meaningful category of comparison.
Unfortunately no … except in general descriptions which tend to be somewhat vague and non specific rather than “scientific”. They can at least give you an idea though. In general the newer types of foam have been formulated to be a bit softer, less stiff when cooler, and more breathable. Some would say this has made memory foam worse (less of the desirable memory quality) and some would say it has made it better (more desirable features that are well worth less memory) depending on each person’s preferences.
Generally the better online manufacturers will give you good information about the general qualities of the memory foam they use and most of the better ones also have return policies which would make it self defeating to misdescribe their materials to you. Most will use Tempurpedic foams (or perhaps the iComfort) as an approximate reference. Usually the best choice is when there is a local manufacturer who offers good selection, quality, and value. Online choices are great if there are no better local choices available but I would personally prefer a local manufacturer where I could actually lie on their mattresses … even if that involved a “reasonable” premium. Online is usually best when there are no good value choices in the area or if the premium for a local purchase is larger and can justify the greater risk of an online purchase.
I don’t think Aerus is more durable than Sensus of comparable density which is one of the highest quality memory foams on the market even though it’s slower responding more like the Tempurpedic. A slower responding memory foam under a faster responding memory foam can often provide a desirable feel for many people. Regardless of whether a memory foam is “newer” or “older” … density is the most reliable way to compare durability (assuming the foams have no added materials in them).
Normally I use a description of 4 lb or 5 lb memory as a general quality guideline but 5.5 lb foam for example would generally be slightly more durable than say 5 lb foam which in turn would be slightly more durable than 4.5 lb memory foam. Minor differences in density wouldn’t make a lot of difference and the feel and response of the foam would be more important than very small differences in density IMO. There’s no magic in reaching 5 lbs from say 4.8 … it’s just a general guideline for quality and durability. Strangely enough though … memory foams densities are generally in the lower half of the number range after the decimal point (from .1 to .5) probably because if a manufacturer chose to make say a 4.6 lb memory foam … they would likely make it 5.0 lbs for better perceptual quality even though the difference would be fairly small.
Just got back from a road trip to Portland Mattress Makers and they are very nice, no high pressure and they were very informative. I have some stats and numbers that I hope you can clarify or give an opinion on.
Their Portland-Pedic has 7" of 1.8 lb HD Poly (They actually said they order it as 1834, not sure if this means the ILD is 34) On top of this is 3" of 5lb viscose memory foam (I asked if the foam was Certipur or even if it was US made and he didn’t know but he said they get it from Carpenter out of Pennsylvania). The foam was very quick responding, very soft feeling. My wife finds it very comfy, me not so much (I feel it is too squishy, I could live with it though). I asked him if I put a wool protector on it how much would it slow down the foams response and he said that he it would also affect the conforming as the wool doesn’t stretch and would actually hold you. This is my interpretation of what he said and it sounds right but I haven’t heard anyone else say this…so…
They also had a latex bed that is 6" of 36 ILD of Dunlop topped with 2" of 23 ILD of Dunlop. I have to say I really like the feel of this, my wife not so much.
After this trip I was wondering if I went with Overnight Mattress if I could go with a half and half. Half memory foam for her, using either their 4Lb or if their 5Lb if it was of the quicker variity. Half latex for me in a ILD to give me the feel of Portland’s bed.
I understand that the 4lb foam my not last as long but if it was just topper then it would be less expensive to replace. If the 5lb was as responsive as or a little less than the Portland foam then it would be perfect.
On the idea of latex I’m pretty sure that 2" of 23 ILD Dunlop latex on top of 6" of 36" ILD Dunlop would feel different than 3" of Talalay on top of 5" of 2.1lb Poly but would it be fairly close? Also being mostly a stomach and some side sleeper explain why I liked the latex better, you know more supportive material? (I do understand that 3" of foam isn’t best for me but better for her and also that the Latex was 2" which would favor me and not her. Now that question is what would 3" of latex on Poly do?)
Sorry if none of this is coherent but I’m trying to process this out loud and hoping that you are able to understand and read fluid idiot
All your points and comments are right on the money!
1834 means the ILD is 34 as you said. 1.8 lb polyfoam is suitable for a support core and 34 would be fairly typical in terms of ILD. Carpenter is a very large American foam manufacturer and their foams are CertiPur certified.
As you know different memory foams have different types of properties and feels even in the same density and which fees best is really a matter of preference. He is correct that putting another layer of fiber or foam over memory foam will put the body heat further from the foam and reduce its response and make it “firmer” and “slower”. He is also correct about the effect of less stretchy covers but some are more stretchy than others (Dormeir for example is a thinner and more stretchy wool protector but would still isolate body heat from the memory foam).
I’m sure they would be happy to quote you a price for any option you chose. I would bear in mind though that there will be a middle area which had a noticeable “transition” between the two very different halves which would feel quite odd for someone sleeping on the middle of the mattress. Their 5.3 lb foam is apparently considerably firmer and slower responding than their middle option (which is actually 4.5 lb memory foam). The difference in feel between different memory foams can be very subjective and is really a comparison between two different people’s descriptions whose perceptions may be different from each other. The only way to know for sure would be to try both side by side so there would be somewhat of a “risk” in ordering a foam you hadn’t tried but they would likely be somewhat comparable. I will say that many manufacturers have told me that they believe that Carpenter makes a very nice feeling foam.
Dunlop has a noticeably different feel than Talalay (even in the same ILD) and the difference is enough that many people have a strong preference for one over the other … especially in a comfort layer. Dunlop is less “lively”: or “springy” and also gets firmer with deeper compression than Talalay of the same ILD. Polyfoam is “stiffer” and much less elastic than any latex in the same ILD and while the comfort layer is a big part of how a mattress feels … the foam in the support core will also make a noticeable difference in the overall feel of a mattress. How each person feels these differences can vary widely depending on weight and body shape, how much they move and change positions, and different sensitivities to different feels in a mattress. The only way to really know for sure is to lie on them personally. In general though … polyfoam under latex would be the closest to an all latex feel and HR polyfoam (rather than the more typical 1.8 - 2.4 lb HD polyfoam used in support layers) would be closer yet but also more expensive.
The difference between a 2" and a 3" comfort layer can be quite dramatic and also depends on a person’s weight, shape, and sleeping positions. Side sleepers will notice it more (they are more likely to go “through” a thinner comfort layer) and feel more of the properties of the layers below it. The thinner a layer is … the more you will feel the properties of the layers below it.
Hope this helps a bit and that I’ve answered your questions well enough for you to get a sense of things (without actually feeling the differences in your own experience which is always more accurate than anyone else’s descriptions). And your questions are very “coherent”
Okay I’m getting close I think. I’m thinking of maybe going with the cool bamboo from OvernightMattress and asking them to split the memory foam in half and then inserting some latex from Foamorder.com clearance. If I do this then I would order two pieces, one would be 2" of N25( I’m guessing that the “N” means IFD) as top layer and one piece of 1" N36 under this (I need three inches to match the memory foam side). I’m hoping that this will give me the feel of an all latex mattress and give her the memory foam she liked. (I Wonder if they would sell me a king sized mattress with only a twin lx top? if not it would give me an extra foam when hers wears out).
But if I do this am I just better off just building one from scratch? I can’t help but see that they are only a few pieces of foam and if I can buy the same thing why wouldn’t I.
If I go the build it myself route where would be the best place to get the support core? Also I like cover that design of Overnightmattress uses, is there anyone who sell similar covers?
Sorry if this is taking a strange turn, but it just seems that this is the natural progression. I also totally blame you. I mean you give us the knowledge and you create us mattress monters :lol: .
Now that’s funny … and I’ll happily take the blame for this one
My own thoughts about the different “directions” in buying a mattress would go something like this …
OPTION 1: My first choice would be to buy something I know and had tested locally. This would be particularly true if it involved a knowledgeable and experienced local manufacturer or retailer that was transparent about the type and quality of all the materials and components in their mattresses (so I knew the quality and value of what was in my mattress) and who would be able to provide some good guidance and/or has good options and/or suggestions after a purchase to help you make any “fine tuning adjustments” at a nominal cost if my sleeping experience didn’t quite match my testing. This is by far the least “risky” option and well worth a premium over other approaches IMO.
OPTION 2: If there were no high quality and value local options, or if the difference between what I wanted to buy locally was more than about 20% (as an arbitrary number that each person can decide for themselves) compared to a directly comparable mattress from an online manufacturer or retailer … then I would consider going in the direction of buying online with the help and guidance of a manufacturer or retailer who has the experience and knowledge to help you make your best choice out of the options that they offer. They often offer choices that can help you customize your mattress to different degrees and/or usually offer some ability to change your choices after a purchase at a reasonable cost if it doesn’t turn out quite right. While this is more “risky” because sometimes smaller changes from your “preferred” design can make a bigger difference than people suspect, this risk can be reduced with more detailed conversations with the manufacturer who you are considering. Sometimes the opposite is also true that some differences will be less important than someone who analyzes too much may think. If the price difference and your “personal value equation” justifies it though, it would certainly be worth strong consideration.
OPTION 3: The final direction is the riskiest of all and involves buying separate components from different places where you may not really know how the layers and components you are buying will interact together. I would consider this direction if the potential savings over option #2 seemed significant enough to make the added risk worth it. This approach involves more knowledge and preferably some detailed local testing of known layers to reduce the risk and cost of making mistakes which can add to costs. If you have the knowledge of materials and enough experience from local testing to be able to predict with some certainty which layering will be best for you then it can be the least costly of all the options (although it sometimes doesn’t represent significant savings over option #2) but if you lack the knowledge or experience you need then this can also turn into a “project” with unexpected difficulties or surprising results. If you end up with “components” that aren’t quite right … there can be a much greater than expected cost involved in buying new layers and making adjustments after the fact.
It can be very satisfying to build your own mattress but I would only go in this direction if your knowledge level and personal experience with different types of foams, mattress components, and layering combinations was well above average and in full awareness of the possible risks and additional expenses involved in the trial and error process. I would also try to stick with proven designs and use the same materials, layers, and construction as much as possible (including the cover which is often overlooked and can have a significant effect on the feel and performance as well as the cost of the mattress). This method is more about becoming an expert rather than the simpler method of “finding the experts” either locally or online. In effect you are exchanging a great deal of time, effort, study, research, local testing, a steep learning curve, and the possibility of some costly mistakes for the potential of some savings and of course on the other side the satisfaction that can come from designing and building a mattress completely on your own. Post #15 here and post #5 here and post #7 here and post #25 here would also be worth reading if you decide to go in this direction
The “best” approach to a complete DIY mattress is a “spirit of adventure” and a willingness to go through the trial and error it can involve and where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the DIY process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not turn out to be the case).
In your case … a 2" layer of N25 Dunlop over a 1" layer of N36 Dunlop would be fairly similar to what you tried and liked but there would be a difference because of the different materials that were underneath it. This would be on the firm side for a typical side sleeper (although heavier weights would feel this as softer than lighter weights and you have the advantage of having tried this and knowing that it provided enough pressure relief on your side) but the advantage would be that it would be better for stomach sleeping because there would be less of a chance for sleeping in a swayback position. Bear in mind too that the type of quilting/ticking used would also play a role in how any particular option felt to you.
So overall you are going in a good direction in terms of what you are considering IMO. You are asking the “right” questions. In essence you started with #1, are considering #2 and considering moving towards #3. The goal is to make your choices with realistic expectations of success.
If you decide to go all the way into #3 … then choosing layers that have known specs and that closely approximate what you have tried in person and worked well for you can be a good blueprint. In this case … I would check the websites and/or call and talk with the online manufacturers of this site as a “reference point” in terms of cost (DIY Natural Bedding, SleepEz and Arizona Premium / mattresses.net offer layers as components and often carry layers which are not listed on their site) and then purchase the components from a reliable source that describes their products accurately and that you have confidence would actually supply what you are ordering. Post #4 here has a list of sources for various mattress components for those who are going in the direction of option 3.
Foam Order would be a supplier that I would consider to be good although they may not always have the best prices when compared with other options. Amazon, Overstock, and other even “riskier” choices like Ebay could also be good choices for materials and components if you have confidence that what you are buying is correctly described (which is not always the case) and suitable for your needs and preferences. This can take some research.
Zip covers of various types (quilted with wool or other materials and unquilted) can be also purchased from one of the sources listed in the DIY link two paragraphs up. Making sure the cover you buy fits well with the layers you are buying is also important. You want a nice tight fit not a loose “approximate” fit or one where you have to squish the foam too much to get it in (which will change the feel of your mattress).
So overall … I would take a careful look at the benefits and cost savings of each approach and compare it with the realistic risk … plug this into your “personal value equation”… and then go in the direction that you are most comfortable with and lets you be the involved in the design and construction of your mattress to the degree that you feel best about.
Looked at option #1: Buy locally isn’t on the plate right now. The reason is that at $1299 for a 9" memory foam mattress it seems a little high for the price for what you get. If you remember you said that based on the stats that the overnightmattress was a better deal (and I agree). Plus my wife felt that while the 5lb foam was comfortable, she felt that it was too soft and fell right through it, making this option less appealing. I also think I fell in love with the latex and I know that adding this would raise the price and On a side note I wish to say that it is impressive that you are encouraging a local place
Option #2: If I were to order online I’m leaning towards the Overnightmattress’ Cool Bamboo at just $799 plus they have a code for 10% off. I did ask and they can ship it with the top foam cut in half and I could remove half of it and add my own latex which would add a cost of $219 (a piece of 2"N25 and one .9"N36). I know it is 4+lb and won’t last as long but I would have an extra piece or replace it with a favorable 5+lb foam down the line (it would be only twinXL).
Option #3: I have looked around and here is what I have found:
Starting from the bottom: hd36 1" and lux HQ 5" My thinking is that the one inch would act as a buffer before the very firm base.
Her side: 4lb 2" Aerus memory foam and 5.3lb 1" memory foam (I know that this is imported foam but I’m hoping it would give a slight firm feel under the 4lb) Set me straight on this if I’m off base.
My side: 1. piece Long Twin soft approx 2 x 38 x 80 (N25) Natural Sense 100% natural latex mattress pad foam. 2. Natural Sense 100% natural latex mattress pad foam topper, twin long size approx .9 x 38 x 80 (N36). Both of these on clearance for $219.
Here’s the process I would go through (for the benefit of those who may be following)
As I mentioned … I would personally pay a premium to buy a known mattress from a local manufacturer rather than taking the risk of buying online … but only to a point. A relatively small difference of say 20% or less spread out over the life of a mattress would not justify the risk for me. Each of us needs to decide on our own number though where the savings are worth the risk of buying a mattress that is somewhat “unknown”. If the premium is too much though, then I would certainly make an online purchase my next option. Since the $1299 of the Portland Pedic is more than say 20% more than the high density memory foam at Overnight (which has an extra cost so is actually more than the $799 less the discount as well) … then I’d probably go with the Overnight unless the Portland Pedic was absolutely “perfect” in which case I’d still strongly consider it.
I’m assuming too that you’ve looked at your options at maidenmaine which may have options you haven’t considered yet and which may work very well.
Regarding option #2.
Your choices here look like good ones as long as your Dunlop comfort layers work well for you. The only down side to this mix would be the transition between latex and memory foam in the middle of the mattress.
Regarding option #3.
I personally wouldn’t order anything from foambymail or any of their alternative websites. IMO … the risks are to high that their foams are misdescribed and the small saving isn’t worth the risk.
There is some 5 lb Aerus here if that’s the direction you are looking at. With your greater weights … you could add another inch of other material and a little thickness on top is not a bad idea. I would personally avoid any unknown or memory foam that hasn’t been CertiPur certified or has another good certification. There are just too many good options to take the chance. Foam order will supply you with American made foam if you ask. There are some good Sensus foams which would probably work well and you can even get Venus which is higher density yet. There are some links in this thread to some good options.
I would also consider going thicker than 9".
You will need both a mattress zip cover to surround and protect the foam and complete your mattress and also a protector to protect the mattress from moisture, body oils, etc. The SleepEz non quilted cover is also very nice and a little less. There’s a picture in post #76 here (the color is actually off white). The Dormeir is a very nice wool protector but bear in mind it may firm up memory foam by isolating it somewhat from heat. If you do a forum “title search” on “protector” or “cover” (without the quotes) there’s lots of information about various mattress protectors and covers.
Like the difference between option 1 and 2 … I would only go with option 3 if there was significant savings or another compelling reason (for example the challenge of designing your own mattress) to take the “risk”.
Squeaky…squeaky…squeaky (the sound of putting training wheels humbly back on bike :unsure: )
Okay Checked out Portland mattress again and just not impressed. Don’t get me wrong, they are nice and everything but I feel they are a spring mattress maker that happen to sell a memory foam mattress. I asked if I could change something and I was told that the mattress is shipped from the factory the way it is. So they don’t put it together. Also the cover was a very thin terry cloth (you could see through it). I also checked out MadianMaine and same thing (wanted to sell springs but had one memory foam that came as is and was $1499. So I have closed the door on this option.
I also think I’m going to drop the latex for now. I’ll try that as my next project (I have to earn my big boy pants first:) )
You mentioned to have a mattress deeper than 9". I find this interesting as the “Cool Bamboo” is 9" and both local shops were 9". Could you explain why and what layering would be good
I have read about the 2 1.5" Aerus 5lb that it is more responsive than say the Sensus. Which seems positive. Do you know if the topper at Sam’s is truly King size? (King Dimensions: 4" H x 76" W x 80") Also what would be a good filler layer to get me the depth I need? What do you think of 1" of 4lb on top of a 5lb? (it seems that it would give a slightly softer feel, yet would it slow down the responsiveness of the 5lb under it?)
Also would DuraFlex™ D34 work as a support core? Or point me in the right direction. (Also do you know anything about Foamorder’s memory foam quality?)
I talked to overnight mattress and asked about their 5lb foam and he really wanted to steer me away from that and stick with 4lb.
I’m still tempted to put together my own as most of what I’m looking at are made of a base, (maybe a transition layer), then the supportive layer and then a cover. The trick is to find the right parts.
I’m going to play a bit of “devils advocate” here so that you don’t get the idea that creating your own design is as simple as you may think once you start to go beyond more “standardized” layering that fairly closely “duplicates” a layering you have tested personally.
So if I understand you correctly you are committed to a “memory foam mattress” of some type and you are leaning towards ordering the various components to design and put it together yourself. It’s not unusual to see local manufacturers only carrying basic memory foam models … and they often use another manufacturer to make them so they don’t have to prototype their own for the fire regulations. Another reason they often do this is because there are many local manufacturers who are not fans of memory foam in any variation or density and only carry them for customers who insist on having them.
This (option 3) would not be my first choice by any means and I believe it is by far the riskiest way to go … mainly because there are so many variables that you may not be aware of … that someone with the knowledge of the materials and layering they use and how layers interact together would greatly increase your odds of success. Having said that … there’s absolutely nothing wrong with giving it a go on your own if your expectations are low (meaning you are well aware of the potential for mistakes that can be costly) and you are dealing with a reputable and knowledgeable outlet that sells a range of quality materials within your budget.
I would also make a point of having some extensive conversations with various manufacturers and outlets that you plan to order your materials and tell them of your “statistics” (weight, height, sleeping positions etc) and your preferences to gather as much information as you can about what they would recommend in your circumstances. If they are a good outlet … they will be able to give you some very good guidance as to the best choices of materials that they offer that would be most suitable for your weight and budget.
I mentioned that this would be something I would include as a consideration if I was building my own mattress because it would be easy to do if you are designing your own. The main reason is that a thicker mattress will often work better with heavier weights, doesn’t have the same risk of feeling like you are bottoming out, and can adapt to different sleeping positions better. It also allows for the use of firmer foams which compress to a lower percentage of their thickness which increases durability. That’s not to say that 9" wouldn’t be suitable but that this should be a consideration if you have the choice of any thickness you want. I would definitely include this possibility in your discussions with the outlets where you plan to order. The higher the quality of foam (and the higher the compression modulus) the less necessary this may be but it is definitely worth considering as an option if your budget allows it.
Yes, the Aerus is more responsive and breathable than the Sensus (which is also very high quality but a “slower” memory foam). Sam’s club lists it as a king so I have no reason to think it’s other than that. I would tend to avoid 4 lb memory foam with your weights unless you are willing to accept a shorter lifespan and if you used a 5 lb Aerus on top there would be little reason to use it. If you add more memory foam I would add firmer/denser memory foam underneath the Aerus. As far as what else could go under this … the most accurate way to know would based on your own testing on different types of layering. Failing that … the knowledge of a manufacturer or outlet would be your best guide concerning the specific foams they sell.
I wouldn’t consider a middle layer as a “filler” as much as a “transition” layer and I would tend to use high quality more resilient foam (like latex or high quality polyfoam) rather than more memory foam. Latex would certainly be my first choice here. I am a big believer in using memory foam in thinner layers, especially with heavier weights … to avoid the tendency to sink in too far and cause alignment problems. It’s much easier to add a thin layer of memory foam as a topper than to take it away if you go too thick. Thinner layers are also cooler because you won’t sink in as far and if the layers underneath it are more resilient then there is less of a tendency to feel “trapped” in your mattress.
I would tend towards a very firm 6" bottom layer of high quality and firm foam on the bottom (and subject to a conversation with foam order) I would tend towards the D44 for the base foam rather than the D34. I would probably add a couple of inches or so of the everflex V34 (or better yet medium latex) as a transition layer in between the memory foam and the base foam. This layer will be a big part of the feel of the mattress since the 2.5" of memory foam will allow you to feel the layers below it and you want the firmness to more gradually blend in with the firmer support layer.
Bear in mind that these are not “recommendations” but general guidelines only that can be the basis for discussions with your suppliers or manufacturer. They are meant to help you ask better questions. There are hundreds of different types of foams and the people selling them know much more about their own particular materials and their qualities and specs … especially when it comes to their memory foams and polyfoams … than I do. The person selling the foam (or making the mattress) is always the best source of specific information about what they are selling (as long as they are reliable suppliers). I know that Alan at Foam Order is very helpful this way. I would also ask Alan about the quality of his memory foam. He has told me that it is very high quality but I believe that it is not CertiPur certified and that he can supply other types of memory foam if you prefer it.
The higher 5.3 lb memory foam at overnight mattress is much firmer than most memory foams (I believe it is 18 ILD) which may have been the reason they didn’t recommend it because most people prefer a softer acting memory foam.
[quote]I’m still tempted to put together my own as most of what I’m looking at are made of a base, (maybe a transition layer), then the supportive layer and then a cover. The trick is to find the right parts.
The 4 Way Stretch Zipper Cover Non Quilted has a $49 dollar shipping charge, right?[/quote]
Again … I would tend to work with a manufacturer who has more experience in building mattresses for many different types of people and are good at “hearing” what someone is telling them and then “translating” it into a construction where the odds of your satisfaction are better. As far as I know … the shipping charge on their website is correct but some of their information is out of date so a quick call can confirm it.
Overall … I would spend some time on the phone gathering input from people who sell mattresses using the materials that you want. The insights and knowledge you gain will make your final choices about which way to go much easier. While your own testing is the most valuable source of information as to what may work for you … phone conversations with experts in the field are by far the next most valuable way to gain the confidence that will lead to your best choices.
First of all thanks for all the help and information.
Second: As you advised I called and talked to several foam companies. I really was impressed with Foamorder. I told them what I was thinking about and all about us (our sizes, sleeping positions ans the such). He made ans explained what he would recommend. We talked about their pre-made beds and also what would be best to build our own.
With my and my wife’s sleeping needs I was talking about a split bed. I thanked the gentlemen for his help and wanted to take a few days to process this information.
I was looking at their clearance section and they had a bed there that fit the description of what I wanted. The bed was made for someone who changed their mind after delivery. It was a split 10" deluxe. a $1200 bed for $500:) This was way cheaper than building our own of equal value or any bed anywhere of equal build quality.
I would like to point out a few things about Foamorder. The shipping is estimated at time of order and you don’t know what the real amount is until it is charged to your card. In my case the estimate was over $50 off (not in my favor), they also charged around $20 dollars for processing (this is for vacuum packing the bed) and this was also more than they quoted.
The bed arrived looking like a 100lb burrito. When we opened it there was no strong odor (maybe a slight smell) and it was in perfect condition. We have had the bed for a week and just love it. It does sleep warmer than our old sping bed but we expected that. We will have to wait to see how the 5.3lb foam hold up. They say that the base foam is 3 lb/ft3 EverFlex yet my side is med-firm and my wife’s side is med-soft. Are both sides 3 lbs or would her side be less since it it softer? I looked at their site and they list a 3lb foam so I’m guessing it is just for their own beds.
Just wanted to give an update and ask a question about the foam but mostly so say thanks and encourage you to keep on keeping on.