Hello, I need recommendations on Tallalay Latex mattresses. I live in the north San Diego County area and went to three shops today. First stop was Jerome’s Furniture where they carry their own line of Mattresses made by Diamond Mattress. Looking at two there…one had 2" of Natural Tallalay Latex …Eco Flex Plant Based Foam…on Pocketed Box Coils. The second shop was Mattress Discounters where they sold a major brand name Dunlop Latex mattresses. The sales lady there was all about selling the brand. She told me that Dunlop and Tallalay are the same because her reps know what they are talking about. She did not want to know anything about this site. Third stop was Sleep Train where the manager there had the Vera Wang (Floor Models only) Tallalay Peaceful Interlude 2" Tallalay and 8" of Profile ( not sure of what Profile is). Interested in the Jerome’s Signature line and the Vera Wang…not sure if pocket coils are ok. I am a thin male that sleeps on my side and have only had “traditional coil spring” mattresses and looking at Latex to better my sleep. Any suggestions or comments would be helpful as I am a newbie here. Thanks,
Diamond mattress is a regional wholesale manufacturer which is making some very nice quality mattresses. They also have a very informative website with some good information about the materials and construction methods they are using in their mattress lineup. The house brand at Jeromes may or may not be identical to the brands on the Diamond website so a layer by layer spec sheet is always important when you are considering a mattress so you know what materials you are payng for.
Dunlop is a method used to manufacture latex foam and not a mattress brand. There is also quite a difference between Dunlop and Talalay latex even though they are both high quality. The lady you were talking to clearly doesn’t have a clue what she is talking about and if this information is coming from her rep then they don’t have a clue either … but this is not uncommon when you are dealing with a chain store.
I would suggest reading this article which has some guidelines that should help you avoid these types of outlets and the major brands which cater to them.
I would tend to focus on local manufacturers in the area or sleep shops that carry locally made mattresses (like the Diamond) as they will usually be the most knowledgeable about the materials in a mattress and what type of mattress would best suit your needs and preferences. They will usually have the best quality and value as well.
Normally thinner people will use thinner comfort layers as they don’t have as many “gaps” to fill in. In terms of softness I would tend to go with your personal experience in terms of what relieves pressure and keeps you in alignment as there are some thin people who prefer softer than normal comfort layers because of their lower weight (which sinks in more easily to softer foam) while there are another group who prefer a little firmer than normal because of their narrower profile which doesn’t need to sink in as much to relieve pressure. It would depend on whether you like to sleep a little more “in” or “on” a mattress and on your weight distribution and preferences.
There are a few options in the San Diego area in post #2 in this thread
Thank you Phoenix for your help. Also. Thanks for all you do here as your site has helped me from making a costly mistake in purchasing the wrong style mattress. I went back to Jeromes ( a local furniture chain in San Diego) and looked at their house brand mattresses made by Diamond Mattress. One mattress I looked at had 2" Talalay on top with 2" Memory Foam under the Talalay sitting atop coils and the second mattress with Talalay they carry had 1" Talalay on top and 2" memory Foam under the Talalay sitting atop coils. Based on your information I walked away. Today, I went to Healthy Back Store and looked at the Pure Latex Bliss mattresses. I liked two models: 1:). Nature Model: 3" Talalay SS Latex-- 6" Talalay S Latex Support–1" Stabilization Base. 2:) Serenity Model: 1" Talalay SS Latex–6" Talalay S Latex Support–1" Stabilization Base. Both models have Celsion.
My questions are what is the difference between Talalay SS and Talalay S Latex? What is Celsion? When I research Celsion all I find is the promotional material talking about the “cooling affects” of Celsion. What is the Stabilization Base? Also, they could not tell me the ILD of either mattress. The sales lady in the store called another store to find out and the salesman in the other store said I was over evaluating the material. Also said that you can’t compare the ILD in the PLB mattresses with other brands as different latex is used. I assume based on your information that the salesman does not know his information correctly.
I am also looking at The Adustable Ultra Plush with 100% Natural Talalay Latex with the Bamboo Quilted Cover from Arizona Premium Mattress Co. What is the difference between a standard Cotton cover and the Bamboo Cover they offer?
Thanks for your time
While I certainly agree with you about the choice of latex over memory foam for many reasons … I also realize that latex/memory foam combinations can be very comfortable and if the memory foam is high quality and good quality construction methods are used … then they can make a good choice for those who are looking specifically for the feel and qualities of memory foam. Diamond makes a very wide range of mattresses including all latex and latex hybrids as well and their website includes a search for retail outlets near you that may carry a wider range of their mattresses.
Pure Latex Bliss is a national manufacturer that is owned by Latex International who produces much of the Talalay latex in North America. They are also a better value than most national brands but not in the same value range as most local or many regional manufacturers. I do like their mattresses though and at the end of this post I’ll include the specs for each of them.
SS stands for super soft and S stands for soft. The specs at the end of this post are more specific (the lower ILD numbers are softer than the higher ones). The 2" and 3" toppers which can be added to any of the mattresses are made of 14 ILD blended Talalay latex.
Celsion latex is a type of Talalay latex which includes a phase change ingredient which helps slightly to regulate temperature. It stores or releases heat according to temperature to maintain a slightly more consistent sleeping temperature. It is best used in the top layer of a mattress and the Pure Latex Bliss models at Healthy Back use this instead of regular Talalay in the top layer of their mattress.
The stabilization base was originally a very firm polyfoam which made the handling of the mattresses easier in production (latex is difficult to handle and can tear more easily than polyfoam) and provided a protective bottom layer on the mattress. I think it created a perception issue though because many people focused on the fact that their mattresses had an inch of polyfoam in it (even though it was on the bottom and had no effect on the properties of the mattress itself) … so in Sept, 2011 they changed the inch of base polyfoam to firm latex (50 ILD Talalay latex)) so that they could say that the mattress was all latex.
There is some truth to what the salesperson said about overevaluating the materials but in the case of the members of the forum here … knowing the specific construction of the materials in the mattress and also having access to manufacturers who can closely “duplicate” a mattress allows for buying a very similar mattress at a much better value. While pressure relief, alignment, and personal preference is the key to buying a mattress in a store … using store mattresses with known constructions as a model for an online purchases can be very valuable (although you can expect the type of comments you received because of course they would like to sell you what they have and make you think it is completely unique). The Talalay latex made by Latex International that they use is the same material as is used by many other manufacturers.
The bamboo cover at Arizona Premium uses a bamboo/cotton blend instead of just cotton which is a very popular “upgrade” material. Bamboo is a form of Rayon with a very nice feel to it and is very durable and breathable although it is not as “natural” as cotton (it is a form of Rayon which is made from cellulose that can come from many sources including wood).
Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric Latex BLISS Milliken's Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier 3" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD 2" Natural Talalay Latex 24 ILD 6" Natural Talalay Latex 36 ILD 1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex 12" Mattress Height 9" Steel Foundation 21" Overall Mattress & Foundation 20 Years Limited Warranty 10/10
Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric Latex BLISS Milliken's Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier 2" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD 2" Natural Talalay Latex 28 ILD 6" Natural Talalay Latex 36 ILD 1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex 11" Mattress Height 9" Steel Foundation 20" Overall Mattress & Foundation 20 Years Limited Warranty 10/10
Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric Latex BLISS Milliken's Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier 2" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD 1" Natural Talalay Latex 28 ILD 6" Natural Talalay Latex 36 ILD 1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex 10" Mattress Height 9" Steel Foundation 19" Overall Mattress & Foundation 20 Years Limited Warranty 10/10
Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric Latex BLISS Milliken's Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier 1" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD 6" Natural Talalay Latex 40 ILD 1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex 8" Mattress Height 9" Steel Foundation 17" Overall Mattress & Foundation 20 Years Limited Warranty 10/10
Latex BLISS uses 450-480 Gram Weight fabric Latex BLISS Milliken's Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier 1" Natural Talalay Latex 28 ILD 6" Dunlop Core Synthetic Latex 1" Support Stabilization Base @50 ILD Firm Talalay latex 8" Mattress Height 9" Steel Foundation 17" Overall Mattress & Foundation 20 Years Limited Warranty 10/10
Thank you, Pheonix for all the specs of the LatexBliss mattresses! I have been doing so much mattress research and I think I’m going to go for a PLB mattress. I wish I could buy direct from the manufacturer for a latex mattress, but I simply need to try it out in store first and the PLB mattresses seem to be the best bet.
Here is my question, I know you can haggle with the big chain mattress places, but what about HealthyBack stores? Is it possible?
I think that the PLB is one of the better “mainstream” mattresses but it could also be more costly than similar mattresses made by local manufacturers that may be in your area. If there are no local manufacturers that make latex mattresses with better value and that you can actually lie on … and you are not comfortable with an online purchase … then the PLB may make a good choice.
I’m personally not a fan of negotiating and I would prefer not to give my business to a retailer or manufacturer where negotiation plays a significant role in the price you pay. Even in stores like this though that do “allow” negotiation … there are some mattresses that have a more “fixed” that is set by the manufacturer (like Tempurpedic, iComfort and PLB) and some models where they are more open to a negotiated discount. In some of these cases they can only advertise a MAP (minimum advertised price) but will often sell for less and in other cases they have an MSP (minimum selling price) set by the manufacturer that they are not allowed to discount. The ones that go on sale are the ones that you can most often negotiate for. Even the ones where they don’t offer discounts or are prevented from doing so by the manufacturer, … there is always an opening for them to add something free that they otherwise wouldn’t offer (such as pillows or foundation or extra service etc).
Many retailers will ask a customer to pay a “deposit” to “hold a price”. Be aware that this is just a tactic and is used to make sure that you will come back to the store after you have done more shopping so they can once again use various sales techniques to convince you to buy a mattress from them. Most sales people at mainstream stores realize that they only have one chance to make the sale and if you walk out of the store that’s probably the last time they will see you. If they can use a sales technique to make sure you come back and they have a second chance to “sell you” after you are closer to a decision then in their eyes that’s an unexpected bonus.
In general … if I was going to buy a mattress from an store like this … I would do some homework into similar mattresses that use similar materials and designs (not necessarily the same model or brand) and find out what the best price would be for these and then use this price as the basis for my negotiation and be willing to walk out if they couldn’t come reasonably close to meeting it. You can always change your mind later and buy it anyway but it’s a lot more difficult to recover from overpaying for a mattress.
Outside of the suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences), a mattress is only as good as its construction and the materials inside it so any similar mattress that use the same or a very similar type and quality of materials in a similar design (layer thicknesses) can be use as a price comparison for the purposes of negotiation and this is a much more meaningful comparison than comparing a mattress to a listed or regular price which is often inflated so that sale prices or “negotiated discounts” appear to be better than they are. Researching prices for similar mattresses online (and on the phone from stores that may even be in other areas that sell the same or very similar mattresses) in combination with a willingness to leave are the two most powerful “parts” of negotiating. This video along with post #5 here about the “fake sales” that are so common in the industry and this video about “negotiating” prices are also worth watching.
Most people start from the top and look for the size of the discount or how many concessions they received as a “marker” for their negotiating success. Most salespeople already know how low they can go but are also expert at creating the impression that you got them lower than anyone else (when of course you really didn’t) so they “play the game” that you are asking for such a low price that they need “special approval” to give you the price you are asking for or that they will make some kind of exception because they value your business so much. In stores where negotiations play a role in the price the mattresses will generally have a premium added to the selling price and in most cases “negotiations” will only eliminate some of this added premium but not all of it so the stores that negotiate generally sell their mattresses for higher prices than stores that operate on lower margins and sell their mattresses at their best price every day of the year. With the type of retailers that allow negotiation the only real question is how much of the added premium will your “negotiations” eliminate and in most cases consumers are not actually getting the “deal” they believe they are and are certainly not as good at “negotiating” as the salesperson would have you believe. People who feel “great” about the price they believe they “negotiated” are far more likely to brag to others and not return their mattress as a matter of pride and because they believe that they would pay much higher prices if they did even if they still overpaid so the salesperson’s goal is to make you think that you did exceptionally well.
The real goal is to decide on your “non negotiable” price first rather than deciding how low or high to go when you are in the process of negotiating. Once you’ve decided on a mattress … go home … do your research … and then go back with your decision on what you’re willing to pay. If they make “offers” while you are on the way out in an attempt to get the sale before you leave … then write the offer down, say thank you, and tell them that you’ll make a decision on their offer after you’ve slept on it for a day or two. If they tell you “its now or never” tell them that if they can’t make the same offer available in a day or two that they may not be the type of business you would want to do business with or recommend to friends because you don’t particularly appreciate pressure tactics … even if you do appreciate their offer. I would respond to their offer as you were leaving by asking for something more such as … OK … if I decided to buy right now … what more can you offer me. I would then write this down as well and tell them once again that I was going to sleep on it for a day or two.
First though … before anything … I would try to visit any local manufacturers in your area and if you let me know your city I’d be happy to take a look to see if I know of any. They are almost always the best source of quality and value … and you can lie on them first before you buy and not have to worry about negotiating because their “normal” prices are better than the best “negotiated” prices at most retailers that allow it and use “negotiation” as a marketing tactic to create a false sense of “value”.
Hello, I was just like LoveBunny and I had to try many different mattreses. The PLB line was nice but way overpriced in my opinion.
I ended up taking a chance on Arizona Premium and ordered a Queen All Natural Talalay with the Bamboo Cover. It arrived in separate and labeled boxes and was very simple to put together. You would never know by looking at it that it had to be assembled. I have now had it for a few weeks and really enjoy it. I also like the fact it was much cheaper in cost than any of the national brands that I looked at.
Wow, I always enjoy reading your responses. You answer all of my questions and then some! I have a lot to think about. I plan on getting a notebook to take with me with my notes on mattresses and to make any new notes. I think I might be out of luck with finding a king size latex mattress that is reasonably soft. It seems the softer you get, the more expensive. Our budget is about $2000 with no foundation. I’m actually set on the Sto-A-Way foundation with drawers.
I have looked up latex mattress stores in my area, but they seem expensive. Maybe you know of one that I haven’t yet found? I have found Savvy Rest Naturals Bedroom and one more that for the life of me, I cannot find again…
I live in Fredericksburg, Virginia. I’d love some new places to look into. Thanks for offering to help with that!
The closest factory direct manufacturers to you are in Richmond, VA. If you go in that direction they would be well worth a visit. They are listed in post #5 here.
Local outlets that may carry all latex that I know of (and other types of mattresses as well) are …
http://www.mtvernonsleep.com/ Fredericksburg, VA. Retailer that carries Pure Talalay Bliss and Savvy Rest latex mattresses and some Paramount mattresses as well (make sure you can find out the specifics of the materials inside the Paramount mattresses)
http://winndom.com/retailers/ See the retailer list on their site for VA stores. I don’t think they make an all latex mattress but it may be worth calling them to find out for sure and if they do which retail outlet near you carries them. Their mattresses tend to have better quality and value than most national brands and would be well worth considering depending on the knowledge of the retailer that sells them. Their retail outlet finder on their site may not be up to date so a call may be better.
Some of the other better local possibilities that would require some further research to make sure they are willing and able to provide the information about what is in their mattresses and to find out what they have on the floor (and the brands they carry that may be more likely to disclose the materials inside them) include …
http://www.mattressdiscounters.com/ Fredericksburg, Stafford, Woodbridge and others in the area. Classic Brands.
http://www.virginiamattressdirect.com/Default.asp Fredericksburg, VA. Park Place, mLily
http://www.rankinsfurnishings.com/ Warrenton, VA. Winndom
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/ Woodbridge. See post #3 here for the better possibilities here.
In the other direction in DC … post #2 here has some of the better options (some of which you’ve mentioned or are already listed in this post).
Hope this helps
Thank you! Lots more places to add to my list!
I also came across Cozy Pure in Norfolk Va. Are you familiar with them? This mattress is the one I’m interested in: https://www.cozypure.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=90
I’m not sure if it’s a decent value for what it is. When comparing prices with some of the other companies, it seems high, low or comparable. Talk about confusing.
EDIT: Nevermind. I was on another forum and saw your response about CozyPure from December 2010. I hope you have the same opinion of them now. You said “they make all natural mattresses that I really like and I believe have good value.”
Yes my opinion of them hasn’t changed. Value really depends on what else is available to compare with and in the group of manufacturers that focus on “organic mattresses” or “green manufacturing” they have better value than most and I like what they are doing (even though they have made a few changes since that post). They are not in the same value range as some other factory direct manufacturers based on price alone but they do have exceptional quality and other 'value elements that may be important to certain people. They were almost 200 miles away from you so I didn’t include them in the list for that reason. In general, companies that focus more exclusively on “organic” mattresses tend to be more expensive than those that may be just as organic but don’t focus as much on this. This is mainly because the organic market is usually willing to pay more for a similar product because the “organic” label is more important to them.
The whole concept of “organic” as it applies to mattresses can be very misleading and confusing and is often (but not always) a “code” that the mattress is more expensive than other comparable mattresses. In their case … they really do focus on organic as much as possible (and down to the last detail) and the owner Cheryl Hahn is passionate about this. They are also a “green” manufacturer as well (generate and supply their own power) which is why they are among my favorite manufacturers in this category and why I invited them to become members of this site.
So I would certainly buy their mattress if I was comparing it to most of what is available. With the choices that the people on this forum have though … there may be better value available based on price alone but each person’s “value equation” includes more than just price so they can make a great choice for many people. If you had a chance to actually lie on their mattress though and it was “perfect” and was a few hundred dollars more than another choice that you hadn’t tried … I personally would pay the premium and buy what I knew. If my alternative choice was a lot lower (say more than 20%) and had a similar construction using the same materials, then I would seriously consider the alternative if all the other “value components” that are important to you are similar.
After reading all your responses, I think I’m going to try for a mattress from Mattresses.net (yay for the 5% Mattress Underground discount!) :ohmy: I’m so scared. When it comes down to it, I need to try for the better value. I plan on calling tomorrow to get some recommendations, but I’d love your input/opinion as well.
I’m about 140lbs 5’2" and a mostly stomach sleeper, though I wake up on my back often. I like softness, but firmness. I don’t know if that makes sense. I suppose I like to sink in a little, but have a firmer under-layer?
When on my back, on our current inner-spring mattress (no plush or pillow top) my butt feels smooshed. Very uncomfortable. I also end up putting my arm under the arch in my lower back because of the lack of support there. This is what I get for getting second-hand mattresses from family.
My boyfriend is 6’1" 230lbs and a partial stomach side sleeper with one leg up and bent. He prefers medium firm. Though I debate that since he adores this broken down POS memory foam mattress that he sinks into.
Do you have any thoughts on what we should try?
We are going to go to Mt Vernon Sleep in our area this week that carries the PLB mattresses to see if we even like latex. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like there are any ways to compare those mattresses to the offerings of Mattresses.net since the specs seems so far off from each other. Would there be any way to compare if we figure out with model(s) of PLB mattresses we liked? Traveling to Richmond to some other stores that offer latex mattresses isn’t an option right now, so local to Fredericksburg, Va is definitely preferred.
I would focus on trying the Pure Latex Bliss … especially the Nature and Nutrition model … and the Nature’s Rest models (all 3) at Sleep Happens (the Cosner’s Corner store may be the only one in Fredericksburg that carries them).
On each of them … I would make notes about how they are (for both of you) for pressure relief (feeling pressure points on your hips and shoulders especially) and for alignment (no tension in your back and not sagging in too far with your hips in any of your sleep positions). How you feel about these two things (pressure relief and alignment) is more important and valuable in terms of feedback than how the mattress feels overall (although subjective feelings or preferences are important as well).
This would give some valuable feedback about the general type of layering that may work for you and any suggestions would be more meaningful after this feedback as a reference point as well.
I will do that. I’m going to make notes of the things to feel for that you listed. The Nutrition & the Nature were the ones I was eyeballing though I knew I could never afford them. I will try them out and report back!
I’m hoping since today it’s going to be raining, I’ll be able to persuade my boyfriend to not work on the car and go mattress testing. Fingers crossed
I was wondering if there are any latex over spring mattresses I can add to my list to test, too? I was reading a reply of yours from a year ago to a guy who did a lot of sitting up in his bed when working. I’m concerned with sinking in too much when sitting up. I am going to test that position when I’m out, too. I’m just worried that a latex mattress, no matter what the firmness, would make me sink in too much.
I have tried to look up mattresses with latex over spring, but I keep finding information comparing the two. Am I making up their existence?
For most people, sitting up in a latex mattress wouldn’t be an issue but that would depend to some degree on the firmness of the latex layers, the weight of the person, and how they were sitting (for example with an adjustable base it would usually be fine). On the edge though … again depending on the layers and the person … you may sink in further than you were used to. The best way to know for sure if it “works” for you of course would be to try it.
Pure latex bliss does make a hybrid latex over innerspring but they are not carried by every store that carries them. A quick call would confirm this (although I don’t think the outlets near you carry them).
I called Custom Comfort by Winn and they make a mattress that is “almost” latex over innerspring but there is polyfoam in the quilting and some underneath the latex. It’s called the Berkeley 2. They also make an all latex mattress with no polyfoam called the Dynasty that uses Dunlop latex. The closest retailer to you that carries them though is Pattons Furniture in Winchester.
Roomandboard in DC also carries an innerspring/latex hybrid (with no polyfoam).
I don’t know of any outlet right in Fredericksburg that carries one but I would guess you will likely be fine with a latex core. It’s also not unusual that a store carries something that isn’t listed on their website so a phone call that asks “do you carry any latex over innerspring mattresses with no polyfoam over the latex” and then making sure that you confirm that they can list all the layers (many places will often answer yes even if the mattress has too much polyfoam in it to really qualify as a latex/innerspring hybrid) will confirm whether they carry something that isn’t listed on their site.
I don’t sit at the edge of the bed, all latex with a firmer core would probably work. I’ll definitely test it out by sitting in one position for at least 10 minutes.