I would like to thank you for your wonderful informational site. It has saved me a tremendous amount of frustration in my search for a new mattress. I live in Oklahoma City and from recommendations on this site I visited Oklahoma Mattress on Monday. I have decided latex is the mattress for me. A 10" latex from Oklahoma mattress is a little out of my price range, so my question for you is if choosing between an inner spring mattress with a latex topper from Oklahoma Mattress or an Ultimate Dreams latex with HR foam, which would be the best choice for me? I am looking for the mattress that will last me the longest but still give me the latex feel? The inner spring mattress with latex topper from Oklahoma Mattress was not quite as soft as I would like, but was very comfortable. I am 5’7" and weigh 135 pounds. I’m a single mom so I need to keep the cost down as much as possible. I’ve had back surgery at L5-S1 and have degenerative disc disease (four other discs degenerating). Your opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Phoenix.
This is one of those questions where your choice would be based on personal preferences not “better / worse” and only each person can decide for themselves. The “weak link” of a mattress is generally in the upper layers of the mattress not in the deeper support layers (assuming both are good quality) so the durability or the support cores would not be a major part of my decision if all of the other durability factors are equal (such as the type and thickness of materials in the comfort layers and the other factors that are part of how durable a mattress will be for any particular person that are discussed in post #2 here).
Some of the things I would take into consideration though include …
A local choice that you have tested in person is always less risky than an online purchase especially if it is not returnable and in an apples to apples comparison where the local mattress is equivalent in design and value to the online mattress I would tend towards the local.
You may have options with a local purchase such as making an adjustment to the mattress after you have purchased it that you wouldn’t have with an online purchase that isn’t returnable.
I know a lot of people who are very knowledgeable in the industry who could sleep on any mattress design that they choose. If you interviewed these people you would find that some of them preferred all latex, some of them preferred a latex/innerspring hybrid, some of them preferred a memory foam mattress, some preferred an innerspring with layers of natural fibers, and there may be other preferences as well but I don’t think you would find any of them (or at least very few) who chose a latex/polyfoam hybrid as their “ideal” mattress. In other words this would be a budget choice but probably not a performance choice for the large majority of people.
An innerspring support core in most cases would likely be a little more costly than a polyfoam support core so this would probably be reflected in the price of the mattress.
The two main functions of a mattress are pressure relief and support/alignment and I personally place a high value on personally testing for both which is why I place a value premium (usually about 20% or so depending on someone’s “risk tolerance”) in an apples to apples comparison (and this isn’t quite apples to apples because of the different support cores) between a local purchase and an online purchase to decide on “equivalent” value.
Having said all that … both of these are among the best quality/value manufacturers in the country and each may have their own unique pros and cons that are either more important or less important to you. This is all part of what I call each persons "value equation (see post #46 here) which are all the objective, subjective, and intangible things that are an important part of a mattress purchase for each person and may be different for each one.
So I would compare the two on an apples to apples basis as closely as you can (taking into account the similarities or differences in materials in each mattress and all the other factors that are part of 'value") and then decide on which one has the better value based on the things that are most important to you including the importance of testing a mattress before you buy it. You are choosing between “good and good” and in terms of quality and value (as opposed to pressure relief and support/alignment terms and the suitability of a mattress for your needs and preferences) it would be difficult to make a mistake.
Thank you so much for your fast, informative reply.
I have to decide at this point if it’s worth the risk of not being able to try before I buy. I’m close to making a decision, but not quite there yet. I thankfully do have the wiggle room in my budget of adding a 3 inch latex topper to the Ultimate Dream latex if it ends up not being the comfort level that I expect.
What is your opinion of the 2.35 pound high density HR base foam used in the Ultimate Dream latex in terms of longevity? Will it last as long as the innerspring made by Oklahoma Mattress?
I may need to take a break from mattresses for a few days. I think I’m confusing myself. Thank you again Phoenix!
2.35 base foam is a high quality material that is very durable (technically it is HD foam not HR foam but is high quality nonetheless).
Both the innerspring and the polyfoam would not be the weak line in either of these mattresses because they are the support layers and the weak link is usually in the upper comfort layers of a mattress. this would be particularly true with your lower weight.
The biggest difference between the innerspring and the polyfoam would be the difference in feel and performance not a difference in durability between either. From a durability point of view I would look more at any differences in the upper layers of the mattresses.
After returning to Oklahoma Mattress to try mattresses again, and many, many hours of research I finally settled on the Ultimate Dreams latex mattress from Dreamfoam. I ordered on Monday afternoon and received it today!
I went a different route than most. My budget was $1000, and I wanted a higher profile bed since I was coming out of a 16" plush pillowtop. I was fearful how I would adjust to a 10" mattress… Cosmetically the change would have been hard for me. I ordered the Ultimate Dreams in a 3.5 (32 ILD) and a 3 inch latex topper in 19 ILD after many days of reading almost every post on this site trying to decide on just the right comfort level for me. I’ve ended up with 5.5" of polyfoam below 6" of latex and it feels like heaven! Pretty nice looking also at 13" total height which I love!
I can’t wait to sleep on it tonight and I’ll update in a week or so. I didn’t receive my free shredded latex pillow, which is no big deal and I’m sure an oversight. I’ve emailed them and I’m sure they’ll send it out.
I just wanted to thank you for your excellent site, and all of the knowledge you share. I’m looking forward to many years of wonderful sleep on my new mattress.
Hi! I have purchased the same mattess but will use the weekend to decide which level firmness to get. I will be getting 1-2in soft topper later and I will be choosing a slightly firmer one (the matttess) than I might otherwise in consideration of that. My question is- why such a really firm mattress then such a soft topper, and not, say - a 2" topper on a #5 mattress? (I may be reading all weekend heh)
Is there any particular place here on this site or web where you found the information that best helped you decide on the firmness/topper config and if so, could you please share links with me? Did did you buy your topper from the same co as the mattress?
congrats on your mattess and a really nice topper sounds like. My budget is less but- I’ll get there, it’ll just take me longer
tx
I chose the 3 inch topper because it is recommended for side sleepers. Phoenix can make a recommendation for you, or at least point you in the direction of the right information so you can make an informed decision on your needs and wants. If it helps you in any way I am 5’8" and 135 pounds, suffer from chronic degenerative back disease, and sleep on my side.
I did have the advantage of trying out latex mattresses here in my city. I tried an 8" all latex mattress that I really liked that was 2" extra firm, 4" firm, 4" soft that I really liked, so I tried to mimic it the best I could because all latex was out of my budget range.
I also read every single review of the mattress on Amazon trying to get a feel of the firmness levels. Choosing the firmness level was the toughest part of my decision. The 3.5 level is not as firm as I expected. I will say when I tried it out without the topper I definitely knew it would not be acceptable for me to sleep on without the soft topper. Of course this is just my opinion, and yours may deviate widely from mine
I recommend you call Chuck and discuss your needs and wants, what he recommends for you and then reinforce your decision with real life experiences in reviews and discussions here.
I think you will be very, very impressed with the mattress Princess. Good luck in choosing what will work best for you!
Edited to add - yes I got my topper from Dreamfoam also. On Amazon they only have the option of the topper I purchased, but I believe if you call them they can do just about any topper you desire. I would call them and get a quote and then shop around for the best price.
wow thanks for this forum.
i’ve been doing research to purchase ultimate dreams latex mattress as well.
all the discussions and information are very helpful!
i can’t wait till i make an order from amazon and receive my mattress!
HI again. Yes I’ll be talking to Chuck about choosing the mattress level soon as I just got email from him awhile ago. After I get and break in tthe matttress some - I’ll figure out what to do for a topper. Offhand I am thinking of part latex and part memory foam that I can switch around as sort of a summer/winter option. I have slept on memory foam mattresses before and found a couple things I disliked and one of those things was the the heat.
I too am a side sleeper- or was until pain and numbnes in a bad hip forced me to stay on my back more of the time. I did see a topper that was in a 2 compartmented cover (2 sets of ziparounds) for 2 different topper layers which looked very interesting. Neither layers were latex. I forgot the brand but something like that may be an option I or others might like. I have not seen the 2 zippered cover alone anyplace else online yet and the brand name was not familiar to me.
The topper you are mentioning sounds interesting and i haven’t seen it in my travels. If it has a zipper on both sides it wouldn’t be that difficult to replace one side with latex if you wanted to.
There is a two sided topper here from Innomax that has 5 lb memory foam on one side and latex on the other (with a thin layer of HR polyfoam in between) but it doesn’t have a zipper.
Hello Phoenix, I finally found that topper again- it is a Sleep Innovations 3" Rejuvenation gel memory foam mattress topper and the 100% cover has 2 zippers to form 2 compartments with each part holding 1.5 in.
It runs about $180 to $290.00 for full to king size and does sell through Amazon and I just found it on Walmarts site this morning.
I am still trying to figure out what level to have for my just purchsed Ultimate Dreams Latex Mattress and have been in communication with Chuck about it. I think with this kind of adjustable topper (perhaps latex in one part?) a 6 or 7 might be perfect however with my physical problems as well as having Fibromyalgia sleeping on something really soft would be heavenly… though I know “too soft” is not good. Any thoughts?
I would tend to make the comfort choice for the mattress first and then sleep on it to decide how much if any further softening you may need. It’s usually better to deal with one variable at a time.
The Sleep Innovations topper has the ability to rearrange the layers which can be helpful but it also uses some very low quality materials inside it. The Luratex is 3.0 lbs and the gel memory foam is 3.43 lbs (with larger particles of gel) both of which are not great quality materials. If you add 3" to a pre-existing comfort layer you could also be risking alignment issues because your comfort layer would be very soft and thick.
The good news is that it’s cheap and easily replaceable if it softens or degrades too quickly, you can try different variations to see if any of them seem to work for you without causing alignment issues, and it’s also returnable so the risk is less.
Phoenix- I figured as much!!! and it is thicker than I had thought I might want to ge anywayt. Still the 2 zipper configuration cover sounds great if a person could find it sold separately.
Thank you for reminding me that too much topper could be just too much of a good thing for me and my mattress. And yes, I will definitely give the mattress at least a few days use first and think of any kind of topper later.
Question- under what circumstances IS a very plush bed mattress recommended for someone?
So far, I have not read of any type of scenario that would make using a very soft mattress good for any body especially as far as body alignment goes, so for what reasons should a person have to have a very soft mattress to begin with?
This is one of those questions that can be much more complex than it seems at first.
First of all … “softness” has different meanings to different people and there are different “species” of softness (for lack of a better description). Post #4 here talks a little more about this. different people will be more or less sensitive to either the “feel” of softness, the pressure relief softness, the support softness, or the “overall” softness of a mattress and each of these may be talking about very different things when they talk about the softness of a mattress.
Softness is also relative to the body type and sensitivity of each person. People who are heavier that sink into a foam will feel it is softer than someone who is lighter and the same foam doesn’t allow them to sink in as much. Some people will also be more sensitive to some of the deeper layers or they may come into play more with higher weights and some will tend to focus on the “feel” of the top layer or even the “feel” of the cover.
Because of all the varying descriptions of what soft and firm really is … it’s usually much more “accurate” and objective to talk in terms of the overall “feel” of a mattress (surface feel), the pressure relief of a mattress, and the support and alignment of a mattress.
The most common definition of softness has to do with the pressure relieving qualities of a mattress. This comes from the upper layers of the mattress and how well they re-distribute weight away from any pressure points. If you read post #6 here it describes someone floating in the air in good alignment and gradually being lowered onto a mattress. At first only the more “pointy parts” of the body will contact the mattress and all the weight is concentrated there. As you gradually sink in deeper more of the body surface begins to take up weight and relieve pressure on the parts that were initially in contact with the mattress. Eventually enough of the body surface is bearing weight that there are no perceptible pressure points. This is why the depth of the pressure relieving cradle and the materials that are used in the top layers are so important.
Generally … if pressure on the surface capillaries in the pressure points are reduced to below about 32 mmhg (a unit of pressure) for most people, then the capillaries won’t collapse with the pressure and the blood flow will be maintained. When this is achieved … the body doesn’t feel “pressure” or the urge to move and restore blood flow. Once you have reduced the pressure on the pressure points to the maximum possible … then there is no further benefit to sinking in any more. If the heavier parts keep on sinking because the comfort layers are softer and thicker than you need to achieve maximum pressure relief … then all that happens is that you lose alignment with no more benefit of more pressure relief.
Some people need more pressure relief than others because they are either more sensitive, have less muscle tone, sleep in more pressure prone positions, or because their capillaries “collapse” more easily for various reasons. These people will generally do best with the maximum possible depth of cradle that is beneficial but more than this introduces new risks for alignment that have no pressure relieving benefit.
In come cases … some people just prefer to sink in more deeply into the comfort layers and as long as this is done evenly without one part sinking in too much relative to the rest … then this is a matter of preference.
Sometimes some people aren’t as sensitive to sleeping in a position where spinal or joint misalignment causes issues (they may be more flexible for example) so for these people it’s easier to just add more softness for extra pressure relief with less thought of the alignment issues that can go with it. For these people … a little too much softness and thickness in the comfort layers isn’t as likely to cause back pain or joint pain that can come from a misaligned spine or joints.
In other cases … people just feel better with a nice fluffy layer on top of the mattress in addition to comfort layers that improve pressure relief just because it “feels” soft even though it doesn’t necessarily improve pressure relief and in some cases can even reduce it.
Finally there are slow response materials such as memory foam which change in softness depending on temperature, humidity, and the length of time they are compressed and can also feel firmer when you move or change position than they do when they have warmed up underneath you. They respond more slowly which can affect how soft or firm they feel to different people and with different sleeping styles and they can change their firmness level depending on the type and thickness of the layers over them (including any mattress pads, toppers, or sheets and bedding) which can change the amount of heat which reaches them and their softness and response (see post #9 here and post #8 here for more about the differences between different types of memory foam).
So the answer to your question is that different people need a different depth of cradle to achieve what for them is “enough” pressure relief. Underneath this they need firm enough (for them) layers to “stop” further sinking down of the heavier parts of the body to keep the spin in good alignment. In addition to this some may also add a nice plush layer on top just because it feels better to them. “Enough” to relieve pressure for that particular person without causing alignment issues is always the key. For some people … “enough” by any definition of softness is much different than others.
I’ve had six nights of sleep on my new mattress, and am happy to say that I love it more than I could have ever anticipated. The quality and comfort of the mattress is amazing.
This was a very stressful purchase for me. I was on a tight budget, and had needs and wants that were probably unrealistic under $1000. I’m happy to say that every doubt I had beforehand has be squelched, and I am doing nothing but enjoying wonderful sleep every night.
Thank you for this site, and all of the work you do to educate the world about mattresses. Thanks to you I am sleeping better than I have in many years!
Thank you again Phoenix!